How much is he Werth to you?
by wolf9309 on Jul 8, 2010 6:46 PM EDT
in News
Email
Print
Let's not mince words here. The Red Sox could use an outfielder. A real, proven, MLB-level outfielder. So far in this season, the Sox have made do with surprisingly good performances from Darnell McDonald and Daniel Nava, but relying on those guys, Bill Hall, and Eric Patterson too much is more likely to end in catastrophic failure by the end of the season than it is to end in a World Series ring.
Recently, it's been sounding like Philly Jayson Werth is becoming available. In a few ways, he may be just exactly what the Red Sox need - bullpen notwithstanding.
To begin with, a right-handed outfielder who can play left or right field has been a need from the start. Upon his return, Ellsbury will be playing in center. Cameron will either be playing every once in a while or be attempting to recover on the DL. If he does stay on the roster, Werth would be able to play left most of the time, and when Drew needed a rest (usually against a tough lefty), Werth could shift over to right. If active, Cameron could act as an effective 4th outfielder so that his injury didn't get stressed too much- playing in left when Werth moves to right or needs a rest, and occassionally playing center to give Ellsbury a rest.
His bat would be a huge plus, even over the surprising (and unlikely to last) production of our horde of Pawtucket outfielders. His defense has always been a plus, and I'm confident that he'd be able to handle both left and right fields in Fenway effectively. His swing looks like it would play wonderfully in Fenway- he can hit with power to all fields, but should be able to turn the monster into green swiss cheese. He hits for average, power, and gets on base at a very good clip. Essentially, he is almost a right-handed J.D. Drew.
As an added bonus, at the end of this season, he is a type A free agent who, as one of the elite hitters in this FA class, is absolutely not going to accept an arbitration offer- so come November, either Theo will sign him to a new contract with the Sox, or the Sox will gain two new draft picks from the Phillies. Win-win.
Of course, there's an obvious flipside to this, which is that Werth will not come cheap in any case.
If the Phillies are looking to solve their immediate middle-infield woes, there's little we can do. As evidenced by the fact that our current second baseman is Bill Hall, we do not have majors-ready middle infielders. Obviously, our bullpen also doesn't have any pieces that we can move to help their out either.
If they're looking for long-term prospects, we may have more that could interest them. But if you were Theo, what would you give up for him?
Doubront? Kalish? Reddick? Niuman Romero (no, I wasn't serious, calm down.)? First person to suggest Lars gets smacked, because Ryan Howard is going to be there a while.
Personally, I don't really know exactly what the Philly system needs, but I could see something centered around Doubront- he's showing quite a bit of promise, and the Sox rotation doesn't have any clear openings he could fit into for quite a while, and hopefully Kelly or (assuming they sign) Ranaudo will be up to taking any openings then.
Any ideas on what this would take?
I do believe that if this team gets healthy it is the best team in the AL East, but to overcome these injuries, we will need to be absolutely dominating down the stretch and I think Werth is the type of player that could really make that happen.
56 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Get him...
We’re not going to get Adrian Gonzalez or Prince Fielder. We need a bat and bodies. Make Mike Cameron the fourth OF or shut him down for the year, put Jacoby back at Center and Werth in LF (Don’t know how well he’d do with the wall, but Jason Bay did ok) and leave JD in right.
This is all if the price is right and we don’t have to give up to many prospects.
Not to be the one to spread rumors
But has anyone heard the stuff going around that he’s having an affair with Utley’s wife?
USG
Oh, so he pulled a Delonte West?
I haven’t heard anything of it, though.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
That was LBJs mom, but same idea
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
sounds like silly tabloid rumors with probably no basis in fact
but if it will help bring him here, maybe see if any of the Sox players will let him sleep with their wives…
This is the kind of deal where an extension has to be worked out
before or during the trade to work, unless he is ridiculously cheap. I think Gammons said that Cameron is likely to be shut down, so it would be nice to have him for this year and maybe next.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
I don't think this is one of those cases
because he’s a player that genuinely could make a huge difference towards a championship this year and if he doesn’t re-sign, we still get two draft picks out of it
I guess you're right.
My problem is that I don’t want to overvalue a guy that will might only play half a year. Is he really gonna be type A?
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
OOOH
Now the only question is the price. I don’t know if Cameron will be of any value next year, let alone this year. He’s not exactly young, but I wouldn’t mind a trade and maybe a 2 year extension. If the resign fails, we get 2 picks.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
although also I will say
looking at what Cliff Lee cost for the Mariners, I’m cautiously optimistic that Werth might be cheaper than he should be…
Don't they want pitching?
If something gets done, Doubront or Bowden might be in it.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
I'd love to see a deal worked out around Bowden as the cornerstone.
I don’t know if Bowden or Doubront would be enough to entice them.
I think Bowden needs to prove himself a bit in the majors before he'd really be worthy of being a cornerstone
definitely will take more than a one for one trade I think… Just don’t really know enough about Philly’s system to know exactly what else they’d want. Hoping to research that a bit the next couple of days.
I'm not saying either would be a cornerstone (MAYBE Dourbont)
Those just seem like likely guys that could be traded.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
They want pitching this deadline
They have Halladay, and all the rest are pretty inconsistent. Not sure if they want someone who’s major-league ready or not (Doubront has had only two starts). But unless they want Dice-K, they may have to settle for Doubront who has high praise anyway. Have him start a few games for the Iron Pigs after a trade and then call him up for the rest of the season. Heck, anyone’s better than Kyle Kendrick.
"We're not going to give up," It doesn't happen, so who cares? There's always next year. It's not like it's the end of the world."-Manny Ramirez
Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes
this guy is perfect for the Boston Red Sox
They won’t do it, but he’s the perfect fit.
I
The certified ambassador of all things good and great, here at OTM.
I'm not saying we should go crazy and get him right now,
but imagine a healthy team with this guy on it.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
I've wanted this guy specifically on the Red Sox for a few years
he fits this team like a glove
The certified ambassador of all things good and great, here at OTM.
You're right.
If he was a FA this last winter,he would have been an absolute no-brainer.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
he's the guy
If we got him, I’d be open to re-signing Beltre.
The certified ambassador of all things good and great, here at OTM.
so Beltre can break his ribs?
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
Does anybody here still believe JD Drew is better than Werth?
Jw because you guys made a good case last time, even though I didn’t agree with it, but with his latest neck injury I’m wondering if anbody’s opinion has changed.
I believe Drew is a wussy with a p.
Werth may be a little better this year, but Drew is older and has better career numbers.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
[Raises hand]
So far, 2010,
Player wOBA UZR150 WAR
Werth .378 -3.4 2.0
Drew .369 19.2 2.4
Granted, Werth has put time in all three OF positions, while Drew has only been in RF this year. But Drew is historically a better outfielder and that shows. Werth currently has a slight edge with the bat, but Drew is still overcoming the weight of a slow april start. Career numbers suggest Drew will trend up while Werth will come back down by the season’s end.
That said, I’’ll echo wolf’s comment that I’d love to have Werth playing the opposite corner from Drew. He is indeed, a pretty close approximation of a right-handed J.D. Drew.
damn, typo
Werth’s UZR150 rate is currently -3.6, not -3.4.
Draft Picks
We would not get the Phillies draft picks, unless they signed him as a FA. We get the picks of the team who signs him.
"simul justus et peccator"
I've heard they want a no. 2/3 pitcher
You would think it would be major-league ready, to put him behind Halladay and Hamels for the rest of the season and into the playoffs. Not sure if Doubront fits that, but I wonder if we could bring in a 3rd team to pick up a pitcher like that. Not a Cliff Lee, but maybe a Ted Lilly?
Also think someone would overpay for him in FA if he reaches it. I’d love Werth for a few years, but I feel like someone will give him 4 or more years, not sure if Theo would go that long.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 8, 2010 8:17 PM EDT reply actions
Dicek would be perfect for philly
The certified ambassador of all things good and great, here at OTM.
I'd bet Dice-K isn't going to Philly
Either from Philly not wanting him, Theo not wanting to deal him, or him exercising his no-trade clause.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 8, 2010 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
They would be merciless to that guy.
Think of our reaction to him times 10. If Dice didn’t perform well, the media would be all over their GM.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Jul 8, 2010 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Pawn off Daisuke
It would be great if Matsuzaka would forego his no-trade, and we got Werth for him. We`d still have a top-notch rotation and a very dynamic line-up!
Still...
Daisuke may have impressed them with his last outing at Philly. He`d be going to a contender. As far as Theo not wanting to deal him, I think he would see the advantage to the trade. Imagine a line-up like Ellsbury, Pedroia, Papi, Youk, Martinez, Beltre, Werth, Drew and Scutaro! Crushing!
doubtful dice-k going anywhere
he has a no-trade clause, i believe
He is so Werth it
Werth is perfect for the Sox. I was hoping we’d go after him next winter but if we cod get him now? Theo should pull the trigger on this. Trade for him thensign an extension. He’s got plus defense and a Fenway swing. He can also bat anywhere in the lineup. I don’t know what it would tale to get him but surely we can offer something good without bankrupting the farm.
by Fenway302 on Jul 8, 2010 10:02 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Oki would be perfect for the NL.
The AL has got his unusual delivery figured out as well as his assortment of sub-88 MPH pitches. The NL will, for awhile anyway, be befuddled as well. Philly could make good use of him for a season or two in a league switch.
I wonder if someone like Nava could make the difference
Perversely, the opportunity to showcase Nava might help us here. Clearly we need to provide a pitcher (Dice might even be good in the NL), but being able to also provide a legit replacement (not the same level, but not falling off a cliff either) might be helpful.
not really
He’s done well so far, but he hasn’t played a half a season in the majors yet. Plus, he’s 27, so he’s not really a prospect, more of a fringe player. Maybe he could reach his potential and become an everyday player, maybe.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Jul 8, 2010 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
May be a homer pick for me
But what about about Josh Willingham. I know Florida’s wall isnt the Monster, but he had 5 years of playing balls off of that. Josh is having a great year with the Nats.
~ ROLL TIDE ~
GO SOX!!
Ok Assuming a deal could be 'werth' it...from the Phils perspective
Few thoughts and questions:
Are the Phils buyers or sellers at the deadline?
Apparently, they need a starting pitcher and some infield help and they could contend.
If they are buyers then (I am not ‘up’ on the Phils team as far as their needs, etc) but I would speculate that Werth would be a piece of their playoff run if they think they can make a run at the NL East or a wild card. And, if he walks on FA then they get the draft picks so they win on that front too. However, if they trade him they would also a need an outfielder to fill in the hole – and, I guess he is a fan favorite so that must mean something too?
If they are sellers then it would make sense if they can get prospects they deem as good or better as the draft picks they would have received. I would guess in the sell mode they are retooling for next year to be the Beast of the NL East and a starting pitcher ready at MLB level is a must?
Or, if they are both then they would likely accept a win – win for both trade partners that they think would keep them in the race. Perhaps, as many have mentioned we could deal pitching to make that work.
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
I think they still consider themselves contenders
From what I’ve gathered, Philly fans believe Werth is being traded because a) he’s a FA at the end of the year and the Phillies have no intention on bringing him back and b) they need another starter to put in their rotation both now and in the future. That’s why I think getting a third team involved might be for the best for us. Not sure if they view Doubront as ready to slot into their rotation full time yet, but it’s possible.
And by trading Werth they would be able to bring up Dominic Brown, their top prospect, and play him instead, so they don’t need an OFer, but a middle infielder back-up might help.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 7:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Their GM has said he might be "buying and selling"
It looks like either way, Werth is probably available. As SCG said, a three team trade would probably end up working the best as either way, they aren’t going into full rebuilding mode.
Sure
Werth is a nice player that could help the Sox. But they do have options in the OF and Ellsbury may come back soon. I don’t follow the minors as much as some here, but don’t the Sox have some decent prospects there that could help?
I believe their focus should be the bullpen. Obvioulsy they could do both, but I think the bullpen should take priority. They do have some OF options, I see less options in the bullpen. Sure, Bowden could help, but that’s a longshot and a though position for a rookie to assume in a pennant race. Bobby Sprowl, anybody?
yeah bullpen is priority
but that doesn’t mean other things get ignored. If Ellsbury comes back, Cameron still won’t be able to play every day for the rest of the year. He really needs to be either a 4th outfielder or on the DL until he can get his surgery.
Relievers are tough- they’re either as reliable as the guys we have, unavailable, or wayyyyy to expensive in prospects. Bowden, the way he has pitched, could be a huge asset. Francona also needs to actually give Richardson and Manuel a shot- he may not know them as well as the other guys but by now he should just know the other guys are mostly bad. I think the pen will change mostly from within. There will probably be some move for a reliever, but it will probably be a middle reliever who has done well this year.
"Cameron still won't be able to play"
Am I the only one to notice that Cameron has hit safely in something like 8 of his last 9 games? With a couple of HRs?
He may be finally getting healthy himself. If so, I want him in center, not Ellsbury.
And frankly, I’d rather have Nava in LF than Ellsbury. A .377 wOBA is not something I want to send back to the minors.
He's hitting well, I'm not sure that was ever an injury issue
he’s just a very streaky hitter. From everything they’ve said, this isn’t something that will heal all the way through the season. It’s not that he won’t be able to play, it’s that he won’t be able to play every day. Don’t get me wrong, I love Cameron, I think he’s a great player, I just don’t think he should be counted on every day to play for this season.
I would love Werth for 2-3 years!
If he wanted 4 I say he is too old.
I LOVE PEDROIA!!! ITS MAN LOVE!
Werth
will get traded to the MFY this week for Vazquez after they do the deal for Cliff Lee.
What a disaster.
The certified ambassador of all things good and great, here at OTM.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Over the Monster
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
- Benches clear at Fenway as Red Sox-Rays rivalry heats up
- Keeping good company: Albert Pujols becomes fourth-youngest player to hit 450 home runs
