DeJesus Rumors Elicit End Of Ellsbury Era In Boston?
Jacoby Ellsbury has found himself immersed in Red Sox-related headlines more than you’d expect regarding your typical disabled list constituent. Ellsbury’s current situation has evoked a wide range of opinions and emotions -- from scrutiny to sympathy -- in relation to multiple topics. From Jacoby’s injured ribs and the amount of time he has required for rehab to, perhaps subsequently, trade rumors educing the end of the ‘Ellsbury Era’ in Boston.
Deliberation regarding Ellsbury has not been confined to the media -- partially because they wouldn’t allow it. In fact, it was his very own teammate Kevin Youkilis’ sentiments that may have summed the situation up best.
"I don’t know what’s going on with Jacoby. I don’t think any of us really know." Youkilis was then asked whether he questioned the length of time Ellsbury required away from the team and on the disabled list, replying, "Don’t go down that road. One thing I can say is there’s a lot of guys here that are hurt and supporting the team. We wish Jacoby was here supporting us, too."
Adhering to the adage suggesting that when it rains, it pours, the Red Sox are now reportedly in semi-substantive discussions with the Kansas City Royals concerning the availability of outfielder David DeJesus.
Could the potential addition of DeJesus, along with the rest of the aforementioned, serve as a foreshadower for Ellsbury’s exit from Boston?
Initially, news appertaining to Ellsbury seemed to focalize on his injured ribs -- what the correct diagnosis and prognosis were in particular. Those ribs, labeled as bruised directly following a collision with third baseman Adrian Beltre, have since been formally escalated to the fractured variety. Explaining how and when that happened, however, is heavily dependent on who you’re asking. While Ellsbury maintains that he secured the fractures at the time of his encounter with Beltre’s knee [April 11th], the medical staff of the Boston Red Sox -- namely its director, Dr. Thomas Gill -- attest that the actual fracturing of the ribs resulted from a diving catch that Ellsbury made just three days removed from his initial disabled list stint against Philadelphia [May 23rd]. Upon his return to the team in Toronto last week, Jacoby met an onslaught of questioning from the reporters that encompassed his dressing area fully prepared and in defense mode; enter said rift. Reading from pages of presumably self-scribed notes, Ellsbury claimed to have experienced pain on both the front and back of his rib cage as a direct result of the April collision and that he asked for -- but was denied -- MRI exams by club personnel. Jacoby’s adamant -- and all-too-verbal -- accusations of misdiagnosis directly contradicted claims made by Dr. Gill (that the fractures were sustained after diving for a ball in late-May, over a month after the original injury). Regardless of who is ultimately correct in the matter of when the actual fracturing occurred, Ellsbury’s toughness and resiliency have already been brought into question as a result of his prolonged absence -- and not just by Kevin Youkilis. Instead of being praised for even attempting a comeback in May, Ellsbury has since been ridiculed for his inability to ‘tough it out’ per se -- something that he vehemently dispels.
"I didn't do this to myself. I didn't tweak something and sit out. I got hurt going all-out, 100 percent for a ball. I tried to come back when I knew I wasn't 100 percent. That's all I can say. Everybody knows how I play. Everyone knows I want to be out there. You can't control everybody and what they think. My teammates know. The fans have been great. That's all that matters." Despite the majority of the initial backlash receding into generally empathetic inclinations -- specifically from the fans’ perspective -- that hasn’t successfully ceased the circulation of Ellsbury’s name within the context of media speculation. According to Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports, the Red Sox first made contact with the Royals regarding outfielder David DeJesus sometime around July 4th. While nothing notably significant appeared to have stemmed from that particular meeting, the two clubs left with a mutual opinion that there was enough interest from both parties to warrant continued communication. A continuation of those discussions is exactly what happened during Major League Baseball’s All-Star weekend festivities. MLB sources claim that Kansas City is -- and has been -- actively scouting the ranks of Boston’s minor-league system; although at this point no names have been exchanged. The Red Sox have used bubblegum and band aids to hold the outfield together all season long. To put it in perspective: J.D. Drew -- not typically known for his durability -- leads all Boston outfielders in games played with 78. Behind him? Darnell McDonald [68], Bill Hall [60], Eric Patterson [54] and Jeremy Hermida [45]. Not exactly what anyone had in mind entering the season. Right now, Ellsbury’s return date remains tentative; he’ll likely be gone until at least mid-August. Mike Cameron -- despite participating at the moment -- missed the majority of May with an abdominal strain and has yet to truly reestablish form. The thought of McDonald, Hall and Patterson patching up an outfield anchored by a 34 year-old J.D. Drew does little to reaffirm fans’ optimism in the midst of a tight A.L. playoff race. David DeJesus may aid in alleviating such concerns, but would it increase the likelihood that Ellsbury be shopped? The 30 year-old former fourth round draft pick has played in 85 of the Royals’ 88 game this season and has seen time at all three outfield positions. DeJesus’ .326 batting average and .395 on-base percentage rank 7th in the American League and his 107 hits is tied with the Red Sox‘s leading hitter, Adrian Beltre, for sixth in the A.L. If he continues at his current pace at the plate in 2010, David will set career-highs in nearly every major offensive statistic including BA, OBP, SLG [.460], OPS [.855] and OPS+ [133] -- all while playing in a lineup that offers less-than comparable protection when side-by-side with Boston’s.
Even if Ellsbury and Cameron are both healthy and back in the lineup by the end of August as most reports suggest -- and Drew can continue to stave off the injury bug -- would production like DeJesus’ not represent an upgrade at least somewhere out there? Perhaps shifting Ellsbury back to centerfield and placing DeJesus in left for the remainder of 2010 would be the most ideal scenario. You wouldn’t lose too much at either position defensively and DeJesus’ ability to get one base and put the ball in play would certainly be a welcomed change from Cameron’s heavy strikeout totals. The question isn’t whether or not DeJesus would be a nice addition to the Red Sox; obviously he would. Instead, the real question is whether Boston has the type of package that could pry DeJesus from Kansas City (it’s been said that the Royals are looking to be considered clear-cut winners in any trade involving David), and in turn, how willing the Red Sox are to meet the Royals’ requirements. Unlike most teams that find themselves out of the playoff race and looking to make some deals at the midway point of the season, the Royals aren’t necessarily in dire need of procuring younger talents in an effort to rebuild. Backing an already respectable core of young starting pitchers at the major league level, Kansas City’s minor league system features six pitchers in the organization’s ten top-rated prospects [according to Baseball America’s annual rankings]. At the corner infield spots, Billy Butler, Alberto Callaspo and Alex Gordon -- all 27 years of age or younger -- will soon be joined by highly-touted prospects Mike Moustakas (3B, 21 y.o.), and Eric Hosmer (1B, 20 y.o.). However, where the Royals could potentially stand to get more youthful is at catcher and, ironically enough, in the outfield. While Wil Myers, a catcher drafted by K.C. in 2009 having not yet turned the age of twenty, offers some futuristic hope of replacing current starting catcher -- 36 year-old Jason Kendall -- catching prospects remain one of the toughest of all positions to develop; you can never have too many, and unfortunately for the Royals, Myers may be all that they have. As far as outfielders go, the Royals’ current roster boasts exactly zero under the age of 28 -- the obvious exception being DeJesus -- and if there’s one thing that Boston holds in surplus, it’s tradable outfield prospects. Could a package centered around a couple players such as Josh Reddick and Ryan Lavarnway -- possibly including someone like Che-Hsuan Lin -- be enough to snag DeJesus? Reddick has already shown flashes of his true potential at the major league level, and the 23 year-old represents a ready-to-contribute, but still young enough to suggest further development, outfield option. Lavarnway, a 22 year-old catcher, has been climbing the ranks of Boston’s minor leagues. He, similarly to Reddick, is a still-young -- but potentially ready to contribute on the major league level -- prospect-type player at a position of need for K.C. In 2009, Lavarnway was named SoxProspects.com’s Offensive Player of the Year as well as MLB.com’s Red Sox Organization Player of the Year; not to mention the fact that he’s riding into the trade deadline on the back of Player of the Month Awards for both April and June. Lin is an interesting addition because of his abnormally high upside. He’s the type of 21 year-old prospect that no team would hesitate taking a risk on. The Red Sox, however, can afford to move someone like Lin because by the time he is fully-developed, other similarly-aged and more polished outfield prospects -- Ryan Kalish and Reymond Fuentes in particular -- will likely already have begun contributing at the big league level. Would the Red Sox be willing to offer this type of package for a player of DeJesus’ caliber, and in turn, would the Royals accept such an offer? Neither may ultimately be considered probable, however with Cameron, Drew and DeJesus under club control in 2011, grabbing DeJesus (who comes with a relatively cheap $6 million option) could actually make the latter of the two the more feasible. For one, the Red Sox could then afford to pass on Cameron‘s option, replacing him with DeJesus for very little difference in salary -- DeJesus would likely shift to LF in this scenario. Boston could then turn around to use some of the money saved by any of the other plethora of potential departures following this season [David Ortiz, Victor Martinez, Jonathan Papelbon] to sign a free agent such as Jayson Werth -- or less-likely -- someone like Carl Crawford. This is where trading Ellsbury becomes arguably most sensible -- this off season. Assuming the Red Sox would make a move on someone like Werth after acquiring DeJesus and exercising Drew’s option to fill out the outfield this winter, they would still likely be left with a glaring need at one of the ‘glamour’ positions such as catcher or third base. A player like Ellsbury is the type of trade bait that can land the ideal impact player that the Red Sox would desire when attempting to replace the likes of either Victor Martinez or Adrian Beltre. The again, given enough time, anyone might be able to conjure up a sequence of events justifying almost any random trade rumor. The fact of the matter is, when it’s all said and done it’s difficult to imagine the Red Sox actively pursuing the subtraction of Jacoby Ellsbury from their lineup -- even in the event that they land DeJesus. Ellsbury represents a still-developing, not yet in the prime of his career, monetarily affordable game-changer at the leadoff position. His impossible-to-ignore element of speed discreetly packaged in a lineup underwhelmed with base running threats is invaluable -- especially for those hitting directly behind him.
Make no mistake about it, the acquisition of David DeJesus is still a very distinct possibility and something that the Red Sox are surely exploring. However, like most trade rumors lacking any semblance of tangible evidence -- especially in Boston -- this one probably won’t evolve into anything.
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If Lavarnway is "potentially ready to contribute on the Major League level," we can't afford to trade him
Right now, we have Victor Martinez, who may or may not leave in free agency and is currently on the DL; Tek, who isn’t capable anymore of contributing on the Major League level if he has to play more than once or twice a week and is currently on the DL; Cash, who was already let go by the Sox once because he had no future here; and two AAA catchers who are currently on the DL, at least one of whom is likely to make the Sox roster next season as the backup, assuming Lavarnway doesn’t make a huge leap in the offseason. It’s not worth trading away a potential big league contributor at a position of great need in both the short- and long-term for a guy who figures to be a fill-in outfielder for this year and a fourth outfielder in the future — we all know Cameron and Drew are still going to be starters next year, and Kalish is going to be around a lot longer than Dejesus would.
I'm all for trying to get more value out of Ells in a trade, but
this would just make the OF older and all would have expiring contracts after 2011. Dejesus isn’t really an upgrade over Ellsbury.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
I'm not as worried about 2011
Even if we don’t make the trade we STILL lose 2/3 plus Hermida after next season. One more isn’t that big of a deal there. I still think we’ll keep Drew for another year or two, Kalish will be ready by then, there’s 2, then there is Reddick, Lin, Fuentes, Manifest Destiny (Get well soon!) who could all make the progress necessary to step into the starting lineup in 2012, or sign one of the FA such as Willingham, Cuddyer, Bautista, Hart, Fukodome, Or if he’s good, sign DeJesus to an extension.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Drew is likely to retire from what I've heard.
The problem with the deal is that there are moving parts. When we get DDJ, we then have to trade Ellsbury. What is the market on him? I don’t think he’s ever been shopped before, so we have no idea what we could get for him. For this whole scenario to work, cost of DDJ < return for Ells. I don’t like that unknown factor.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Jul 14, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Really? Whered you hear that?
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 14, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
multiple people on here
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Jul 14, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
really, I havent seen that
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 14, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ve heard whispers around here, nothing substantial.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Even if it's not certain,
it’s another uncertainty in this trade scenario.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Jul 14, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
An interview
He said that earlier this season (april or may). The only team he’d sign with would be the Sox, but he’s thinking about his family and may retire after this contract.
"simul justus et peccator"
I think that the whole cost of DDJ < return of Ells is actually fairly likely. There’s got to be a pretty good market for a young OF with speed that hasn’t even started arbitration yet. The injury of course takes away some value but I think it would be pretty close to a wash. Also of note is that DDJ projects as a Type A FA at the moment, that will also help a lot should we not retain him.
I don’t get as worried over OF, there are plenty of fish in the sea that can be had there. If we were talking about SS, totally different story. If we can put a starter in the OF instead of McDonald or Hall or Patterson, this lineup is greatly improved, right now and for the foreseeable future, Ellsbury cannot do that for us.
That being said, WHERE IS THE BULLPEN HELP?!
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Why can't we use Cam or Ells as a 4th OFer next year?
Especially with Cam’s injury, he might not be able to go out every day anymore. At all.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Jul 14, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Why can't we use Cam or Ells as a 4th OFer next year?
Especially with Cam’s injury, he might not be able to go out every day anymore. At all.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Jul 14, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
My uncle had an abdominal injury at 38
He was in really good shape, I hesitate to say as good at Cam’s but the guy was a cop and a Vietnam vet, ran three miles every morning, lifted weights four times a week, the whole nine yards. After his injury he was never the same, he couldn’t run as far, lift as much, it took him nearly 3 years to fully recover.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Jul 14, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
There's different types of abdonimal injuries
not necessarily the same one. They’ve said it’s a fairly minor tear which should heal 100% if he gets the surgery, and that’s really all we have to go on with his particular injury. Could be that it’s more significant than they let on, but no reason to believe it is.
Patterson correction
He’s played 9 games with the Sox and 45 with the A’s.
Ive always been on Ellsbury’s bandwagon, beascuse I think hes a good player.
But this situation has made me wonder.
I agree, DeJesus will be the end of Ellsbury in Boston.
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 14, 2010 11:00 AM EDT reply actions
So we're gonna trade valuable guys, for a guy,
so we can hope to trade a younger Dejesus in the offseason. This just sounds stupid.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Jul 14, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I wouldnt give up anyone too good.
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 14, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
which means no DDJ
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Jul 14, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I dont really want to trade for him, my post above just said it would be the end of Ellsbury
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 14, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I want to keep Ellsbury
The guy is NOT a wimp; does his play on the field to date suggest he is a slacker? Not to me. He has 3 broken ribs for christ sake! Who are all these medical experts saying it should take 3 weeks? Rib inuries can be very tricky, some recover in a few weeks and some take months. I didn’t feel right for 6 months.
John Tomase of the Boston Herald had a nice article on this last week (http://tinyurl.com/37fvjf8) although the Wes Welker reference rankles me, as baseball is much closer to golf than football in terms of the effect of injuries.
Ellsbury is still a good, very talented homegrown player with a great upside. Sure, grab DeJesus for a couple of years to replace Cameron, not Ellsbury. Are we sure that DeJesus will take to the Boston atmosphere? While I do think this a bit overrated, it is still there. Ellsbury looked great as a rookie playing CF in the World Series in 2007.
I just don’t see the Sox trading Ellsbury or any of the big league roster anytime soon. The Sox are always in contention, a good thing, and NOT the Royals; they can afford to pay any arbitration award and retain any player they choose, see Pedroia, Youk, Lester.
As John Tomase said very simply – the Red Sox are a better team with Ellsbury than without him, bottom line.
by Scoop1981 on Jul 14, 2010 11:12 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
+100000000000000000000000000000000000
Thank you for echoeing my thoughts
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 14, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
the Red Sox are a better team with Ellsbury than without him, bottom line.
We’ve been pretty damn good without him this year and who knows when he is coming back. It’s starting to have an impact on the rest of the team now (See Youk’s comments), if we can get a Patterson or McDonald out of the lineup we’ll be greatly improved. DDJ is a good player who can actually play baseball right now.
The haul for Ellsbury I think could replace what prospects we’d have to give up for DDJ anyway, and DDJ projects as a Type A right now.
If we did this, I wouldn’t be too torn up over it. It isn’t about not being able to afford both DDJ and Ellsbury, we can do that, it’s can we make the team better?
Right now, we’d be a better team with DDJ playing than Ellsbury on the DL, bottom line.
That isn’t to say Ells isn’t a valuable player, he is, but what the ‘what has he done for us lately?’ mentality is starting to kick in around here.
I would though, much rather swap say Lin for a good reliever than DDJ.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Doubtful
Pedrioa was taking grounders from his knees like the next day, made himself visible. At times I forget that Ellsbury is coming back because he’s had such a low profile. Pedey makes sure we know he’s on his way.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
A better team
Yes, the Sox are doing well without Ellsbury, Pedroia, V-Mart, and the rest, due mainly to good pitching and a stretch against some weaker teams. We all saw the Rays series. When Ellsbury is healthy, do you really want Patterson out there in his place? I doubt it; Ellsbury is a better player and teams usually do better with better players, see?
Yes, get DeJesus for Reddick, Kalish, Anderson and the rest, what the hell. DeJesus is a better player then any of them, that can’t be disputed. Put Cameron on the DL for a while and cut him loose after the season. I would love a OF of DeJesus/Ellsbury/Drew for the rest of this season and next.
Exactly, teams do better with better players!
When is Ellsbury coming back? He isn’t showing any progress of coming back anytime soon, so it’s nice to say replace Patterson with Ellsbury but it just isn’t happening anytime soon.
At this exact moment, DDJ is a better player than Ellsbury because he can actually play the game whereas Ellsbury just got finished up getting daily massages in Arizona to the ire of his teammates. We’d do better with DDJ on the roster instead of Ellsbury on the DL is my point, see?
I think you’re grossly over-estimating the cost of DDJ, Reddick, Kalish AND Lars? I bet it could be done without any of them. Maybe Felix and Lin and another.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Agreed
Yes, I would rather see DeJesus in the OF than any current Red Sox OF, period.
Also, I don’t fall in love with these prospects like most here, especially ones that are not lighting up the minors, so I really don’t care if the Sox trade any or all of the names mentioned here. They can always go out and grab some veteran FA to fill a gap.
there's a huge problem there
which is that a veteran free agent first of all, depends on the guy you want happening to be up for free agency when you want, and secondly, costs a ridiculous amount more than a homegrown player does, which really limits what the team can do. Homegrown players provide the team with flexibility, which is why a pretty good homegrown player can frequently better for a team to get than a high-priced veteran FA.
Agreed
I love good homegrown players, but I won’t advocate sitting around hoping one or more of them turn into starters. My point is that the Red Sox have the money and the cachet to bring in players many teams can’t. Beltre is a good example. Even if Reddick, Kalish, etc. turn into a DeJesus 3 years from now, so what? The Sox wil have another crop ready by then. Educate me, these prospects look good, but not star or “can’t miss” quality, correct? I really don’t know.
oh no. Just not at all.
First of all, you would trade Kalish, Reddick, and Anderson for a year and a half of DeJesus?? Really? When two of those guys easily have potential to be as good or better than him and under team control for 6 years?
And then you want to cut Cameron next year despite the fact that we’ll be paying his salary and he should be all better?
just ridiculous.
Is Cameron on a 2-year deal?
My bad, I thought it was a team option.
I am exaggeratingt o make a point with these prospects with what most here always see as infinite potential. I have no idea, and neither does anybody else here, if any of these guys will make it to the majors and stick around for a while. I just know they are not likely to help the Red Sox this year or even next, so why not move them out? The Sox can fill with FA or make other moves in the future.
I think it’s more of the nature of baseball now. Teams HAVE to overvalue their prospects because young good players are hard to come by as more and more teams lock up players at younger and younger ages through their prime.
If they are overvalued enough than they can be traded for one of those young MLB proven players.
But Kalish has an extremely legit shot at the pros, Lars still has a lot to prove.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
You can't just trade the prospects whenever you feel like it.
If we traded for A-goz, Buch would be gone now. Lester, Buch, and Youk all had the chance to be traded early in their careers. Yes, it’s no guarantee that the young guys will make it in the bigs, but you can’t rely on not being outbid for the best FA or the FA class being any good.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Jul 14, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
While I like DeJesus, I think the return the Royals would want would be too high.
I think the Royals would expect to get a return of at least 1 high tier and one middle tier prospect for Dejusus and I don’t think it’s worth it.
What does everyone think about the us going after Fukudome instead?
The Cubs approached us about a trade according to mlbtrade:
I think we could get him for next to nothing basically salary relief for them.
Fukudome is a better option.
He can play center until Ells is back or Cam can play everyday.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Jul 14, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I dont want him
why not just call up Kalish?
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 14, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
He's doing well right now.
Reddick was in a hot streak, and then we call him up, which made him cold again. I just want to see our players continue to develop. He’s barely had any time in AAA. The only way I want to call up Kalish is if Hermida comes back and is playing everyday because Hermida should not be playing everyday.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Jul 14, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Hermida wouldn't play everyday
He’d join the McDonald, Hall, Nava, Patterson, Cameron rotation.
Kalish does get an end of season call up though if he keeps this up.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
someone has to go when Hermida comes back
probably Nava since he has options. That sucks because Nava is much better than Hermida.
Agree
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 14, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m hoping that it would be Darnell or Patterson (Patterson of course first choice). I really like having Nava up right now.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
My guess is Patterson goes once Pedroia is back, but not before
Probably Nava for now, just because he’s the only one they can bring back up later
Right Patterson’s the choice
Id keep DMac up here, Ive liked him
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 14, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
no, we need a backup 2nd baseman right now
If Patterson goes, we have no backup 2nd baseman or shortstop (because Hall will have to play 2nd). Just can’t happen until Pedroia is back.
Crap, forgot about his “versatility” damn it Beltre, if you weren’t staring at Pedey as he was at bat this never would have happened.
Having both Bill Hall and Eric Patterson as starting players on this team keeps me up at night.
Yeah probably Nava then because of his options, even if he is better than Darnell. I hate making decisions that aren’t based on level of play.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Well how about just getting rid of Cash or Gastavo. V-Mart will be coming back in a week or so. Cameron won’t be playing often so that leaves McDonald, Nava, Drew, sometimes Patterson.
because we also need a backup catcher
Martinez still can’t put his hand is his glove. They’re not sure how long he’ll be out, but it’s gonna be longer than they’d hoped. Can’t go an interminable amount of time without a backup catcher.
I think he is talking about when VMart comes back. Assuming this goes down around the time he would make a reappearance.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
still doesn't work
we’d get rid of Molina for V-Mart when he came back and still need to make room for Hermida (who’s starting rehab and probably won’t be too far away, he says he’s all good to go)
Like I said
Our DL is a mess.
Pedey comes back and Patterson goes.
VMart comes back and the imposter Molina brother goes.
MDC comes back and Manuel goes
Clay comes back and Richardson goes
Beckett comes back and probably Atchinson goes as Wake takes over long relief
Hermida comes and Darnell/Nava goes
Ellsbury comes back and the other of the D/N goes
Lowell gets cut/traded and Lowrie replaces Hall?
Tek comes back Cash goes.
That’s how it works out I think, depending on how things go with Cameron’s health and Beltre’s knee-o-death.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Delcarmen will be gone (Hopefully) and maybe Okajima. Somewhat with what I was talking about yesterday in a different article. Why would we keep Hermida :/.
Unfortunately, MDC is one of our better relievers when he isn’t suffering from made up injuries. He stays over Manuel or Richardson easily.
Oki, he could be gone but he’s pretty comparable to Richardson and Manuel who are making league minimum, we’d owe Oki quite a bit of money to not pitch for us while letting just as bad pitchers remain on the roster.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
And Hermida stays, also because of money and also because I think the only reason we got him is so we could build up some value for him and flip him later. The guy was a highly touted prospect who just never pulled it together, upside, while hard to see so far, is there.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
yeah and it's worth saying that
while Hermida has looked terrible, over his career he hasn’t been nearly as terrible as he’s looked. If he can gain a little value over the rest of the season, then he may be a useful trade piece. If he sucks over the rest of the season, he can get cut and bring Nava back up later.
yeah something to that effect
I’m guessing even more moving pieces though-
Okajima’s been so bad that I think Richardson stays and either Ramirez or Oki go
Bowden’s bound to come up at some point sooner rather than later- maybe the other one of Oki/Ramirez.
I doubt they actually cut Lowell, I bet they just don’t reactivate him.
no real reason to keep around a mediocre reliever having a bad year
Someone’s gotta go to make room for Bowden. They could move Atchison back down again since they’ve already burned his option, but he’s actually been very useful in the pen.
I don’t know how they want to use Bowden, I see him more as an every day reliever than a long relief guy. Mostly because Atchison has been doing pretty well in that role and that is the role that Wake will take over once Beckett bumps him back to the pen. We know he can do it though, Bowden is used to more innings than less. I seem him replacing a RamRam/Oki type more than Atch.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Agreed
that was pretty much sealed for me when at Beckett’s AAA start, Beckett just pitched 4 innings, and then they brought Bowden out, but just for one inning. I think if they had any intent for him to take a long relief role, that would’ve been the perfect spot to let him stretch out 2 or 3 innings.
Probably long relief is back to Wake very soon though (looks like next rotation after this week could very well have Buchholz and Beckett back), so Atchison COULD be sent down. I’d much rather see Oki and Ramirez gone though.
BOWDEN
He’s made 3 relief appearances already I believe. Does anyone know the timetable of his arrival in Boston? Presumably the only reason they are converting him is for the top club, he serves better value to Pawtucket as a starter, sorta dumb to convert and keep him there.
But like I said about Oki, the dirtys are all about on the same level of suck, I think they’ll get rid of the ones that cost the least to get rid of first.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
They haven't said that I've seen
I think has to be very quick. He’s scoreless so far in AAA and seems to be adjusting well to the pen. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him up in time for the west coast trip.
I honestly don't think we should be agressively seeking an OF if it's going to cost us anything of significant value.
I think they are trying to protect Kalish’s development and he is a question mark at the major league level.
If we go after an OF it needs to be one that will cost us next to nothing. I think Fukudome will cost us very little in the way of prospects, DeJesus on the other hand I see coming with a much bigger prospect price tag.
That being said…….get bullpen help!!!!
Just an outsider question
How much longer to you expect Mike Cameron to be a Red Sox for? Wouldn’t Ellsbury come back and replace him?
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
They dont really have a LF, so its expected to be a Cameron-Ellsbury-Hermida platoon in LF and CF
Hermida in LF when Ells is in CF, and Ells in LF when Cam is in CF
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 14, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
FA next year and the starting OF lineup is supposed to be CF Cameron, LF Ellsbury, and RF Drew but I heard rumors that when Ellsbury returns, he’ll be CF again.
nope 2 year deal
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 14, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Ah my mistake. Well, maybe that’ll still be the starting OF next year if the Drew rumors aren’t true. I don’t really see a need in Mike Cameron though.
Drew's still around next year too
he’s talked about retiring after his contract, not after this year.
Well...considering Cam can't play back to back days,
He might come back and replace him. It’s also been rumored that Cam could be shut down. We’ll have to see how he is after the break.
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by BoldandBrash on Jul 14, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Cams been good as of late
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 14, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but he's not playing everyday.
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by BoldandBrash on Jul 14, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Right
Id like to DL him and keep Nava
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 14, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
very possible
That wouldn’t be the perfect time, but it would be an acceptable time for a Kalish call up as long as he’s gonna play every day over Dmac.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
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by BoldandBrash on Jul 14, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Right
Kalish needs to play everyday now
damn Reddick blew an oppertunity for himself, eh?
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 14, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think question is if he's good
it’s if giving him a couple of weeks to rest will make him better down the stretch- will playing him now hurt him more later on?
he can play back to back days
the problem has been 3 in a row, though I think he did that just before the break (and then sat out the next because his wrist was swollen from getting hit.
It seems like Age/Injury has caught up to Cameron, at least in the first half of the year.
So far this year he has put up a -0.2 WAR
I could see him getting shut down, olders players tend to get weaker in the 2nd half not stronger. However, this could all have been due to injury (not age) which at this point should be healed, so we could see a comeback from Cameron
no
it’s not (directly) a result of age. It’s a result of a tear in his abdomen, which they’ve said he’ll need surgery to be completely healed. His lack of production has been due to injury- which is not all healed and probably won’t be until next season, but as he’s growing more accustomed to playing through the injury, production should increase
His whole contract
In a place called perfect one (or both) of Kalish and Reddick will murder AAA pitching for the rest of the year, get called up and stick. Win a job in training camp next year and Cameron becomes OF #4.
The plan this year was for Ells to be the LF anyway so he would just replace one of the platooners, not Cameron, who could also play LF if necessary. That plan has gone to crap.
Cam will be here next year though.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
BTW
Nice article by Logan Lietz
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
you gonna watch the AAA allstar game tonight?
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 14, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I probably will
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
Its on MLB Network this year
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 14, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
there is MILB.tv you can see it on
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 14, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
cool
How do they pick the players? Montero is on the team, but his numbers aren’t very good.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
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by BoldandBrash on Jul 14, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont really know, I think its a vote.
I know PawSox Bubba Bell and Robert Manuel made the teams
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 14, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I've heard how they pick AAA All-Stars is a joke
They pick all the players that are most likely to “succeed” in the MLB and all the players that have the most hype building around them right now. That’s why Montero is on the team, despite the fact that his statistics are not that great.
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
Well Bubba is neither of those
Just a fan favorite.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Bubba’s having a good yeah
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 14, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah but he isn’t much of a prospect at this point.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
No, not really
but I see some upside with some team as a fourth outfielder someday maybe
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 14, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Kalish hasn't been there long enough to deserve it,
but wouldn’t he have the hype?
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
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by BoldandBrash on Jul 14, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Can I ask what you guys think of A-Rod not being put into the ASG ?
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
The ASG sucks
Sums it all up pretty nicely.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Bud Selig
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 14, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know.
I guess he could have ran for Ortiz.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
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by BoldandBrash on Jul 14, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I was honestly surprised he didn't hit for Beltre
Just since it was his manager managing. Honestly, what I took it as more than anything, is that Girardi would rather that A-Rod got the day of rest.
I don't think Ellsbury would be involved in a trade for DeJesus...
…because the Royals don’t seem to be looking for MLB-ready talent in any trade discussions.
I feel like acquiring DeJesus would simply end the Bill Hall era for the Sox.
I don’t think anyone has suggested that. We’re saying, getting DDJ would mean that Ellsbury doesn’t have a place with the team and would provide more value for us than say cutting Cameron.
Getting DeJesus would get rid of Darnell or Nava most likely, Patterson stays until Pedey is back and Hall stays until we figure out what the hell to do with Lowell.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
You can get the Royal's perspective at royals review and royals prospects
http://royalsprospects.com/?p=2792
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
Wow
If the fans think like their general manager than this isn’t going to happen. No way to we send Kalish. If they want Bowden, fine, have Bowden, or Felix. They aren’t getting Kalish though. They also talk about Iglesias like he is available, no way we trade him either. They mentioned Kelly too.
They are grossly over valuing a player with a career .789 OPS.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
I like the guy that says
“I would settle for Kalish and Doubront”. That’s funny.
In reality, I think Kalish for DeJesus straight up is probably a fair trade, because Kalish hasn’t had any majors experience at all, but I still wouldn’t even think about it. I am very, very high on Kalish, which is admittedly just because he’s been absolutely fantastic the 3-4 times I’ve seen him.
I’d give Reddick or Doubront plus some lower level, high potential pitching, but not any more.
Really, I’m still not convinced that more outfield help is remotely what this team needs until I hear that Cameron needs to go on the DL and Ellsbury won’t be back for a long time. I just don’t see Dejesus as the giant piece that someone like Werth would be, who will definitely give us a much greater shot at the world series.
I'd rather give them Bowden.
Doubront really only has 2 pitches. His curveball can look good at times, but he hasn’t mastered it yet. When and if he does, I think he’s better than Bowden.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Jul 14, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty typical
Undervaluing our prospects in order to get more “value” out of a return. A good trade should either please both sides or upset both sides, but what we have we overvalue and what they have they overvalue. Thankfully, no one on that site and no one on this site will be making the actual trade.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 14, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you saying
that Jorge Jimenez for DeJesus and Soria is a bad trade? (j/k)
Wait 'til next/this year?
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by nuthinboutnuthin on Jul 14, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah.
They aren’t really related. It has more to do with Ellsbury’s health and Cameron’s health.
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What about getting Podsednik instead of DDJ?
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
For what we'd have to give up to get him
We might as well just stick with Darnell and Nava.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
I put my full faith in Theo
For 2 years now, everyone in the Nation has speculated and complained about the trade deadline and Theo has hit it out of the park each time.
Very few people liked Jason Bay as Manny’s replacement or thought Bay would be a substantial downgrade. Bay turned out to be fantastic for the Sox.
Last season most thought VMart was a waste of prospects and several people on this board went on rants about not acquiring him for chump change prospects and Masterson. That trade turned out fantastic as well.
So is D. Dejesus the guy ? I will let Theo figure this out. If the Sox trade for DDJ, as a betting man, I will put big money DDJ does very well in Boston and the players the Sox send to KC will be nothing to cry about in a year.
Theo is one of the true precious resources in MLB and he is our guy.
I don't see why we couldn't just move Cameron to the fourth out field when Ells gets back complete healthy...
Or shut down Cameron for the year when we get Ells healthy and still make this deal for DeJesus. I don’t understand why it would have to mean the end for Jacoby Ellsbury.
That's what would happen.
They would rotate Ells and Cameron some, also spelling Drew.
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i think the point of the post is it's not because he wouldn't be able to play
it’s because we could get such a huge return for him that we’d benefit more from letting him go, and wouldn’t absolutely need him on the team.
Personally, I think anything during this season or in the off-season would be selling very low on him in any case.

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