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Boom! Goes the Dynamite -- AKA Manny Delcarmen -- in Red Sox Loss

Manny Delcarmen, you just stunk tonight.

Delcarmen surrendered five runs on four hits in the 8th inning tonight without allowing a hit, allowing the Rays to go on and beat the Red Sox, 9-4. Manny D entered the game when the Rays were up 3-1 and he left with it 8-1 and no more outs recorded.

If you want to blame someone, you can blame him.

In fact, his WPA tonight was -.141. (That was almost as bad as this just a few days ago.)

Meanwhile, Daisuke Matsuzaka put together a solid start. He went six and allowed just three runs, four hits and four walks while striking out seven. He did his little Houdini act as well, but that's why we love, Dice-K, right?

David Ortiz paced the offense by going 2 for 3 with three RBI on the night. Adrian Beltre had the other RBI while Marco Scutaro also had two hits.

Scott Atchison continued to pitch well out of the pen, striking out one in his inning of work in the 7th. Ramon Ramirez allowed three hits and a run through two innings of relief work.

No sweep for the Red Sox this time, as they are forced to take the two-game split with the Rays. Fortunately, Felix Hernandez made the Yankees look like minor leaguers as he two-hit them tonight in a complete-game effort. Hooray for the Yankees losing.

The Red Sox are off tomorrow (oddly enough) and open a series with the Orioles Friday night.

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Delcarmen sucks

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"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson

by bestbostonsports on Jun 30, 2010 11:48 PM EDT reply actions  

That's an understatement.

Good things happen when Beltre is on his knees.
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash

by BoldandBrash on Jun 30, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes it is

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"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson

by bestbostonsports on Jun 30, 2010 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

How am I supposed to suger coat Delcarmen?

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"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson

by bestbostonsports on Jul 1, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wow thats a great point
I feel better now!

Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson

by bestbostonsports on Jul 1, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Was Phil Cuzzi inconsistent tonight behind the plate?

Matsuzaka’s ball and strike chart:

Garza’s ball and strike chart:

Moving on….let’s ride the Orioles like a rented mule.

by went9 on Jun 30, 2010 11:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Ugh.

Matsuzaka worked the lower half and outside corner really well and got punished for it. I guess it’s his fault for not taking into consideration the strike zone that night, as Garza just avoided that area altogether. But still.

I did read somewhere that Brook’s tends to draw the strike zone box slightly bigger than textbook when you look at all the pitches (as opposed to single matchup) simply because he dislikes it when people overjudge the quality of a strikezone from them. So some of those pitches could have been borderline, still seems off though.

by ThePanda on Jul 1, 2010 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

I refer to Brooks’ zone a lot, and I seem to always have the impression that it’s a little wide. If you could find where you read about exactly how it’s determined, I would appreciate it (maybe it’s just on Brooks’ site, in which case, I will look myself).

Oh, and I hate to do this, especially as I’m just a visitor here, but I think you (Randy) meant that MDC pitched “without recording an out” not “without allowing a hit,” as he actually allowed 4 hits. I don’t mean to criticize though, I think this blog is expertly run.

Questions or thoughts? Email me at duggan2423@gmail.com

by Lord Duggan on Jul 1, 2010 3:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

I will flip if somebody says he is just having a few bad outings.

He has been bad before, just hadn’t gotten burned.

Good things happen when Beltre is on his knees.
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash

by BoldandBrash on Jul 1, 2010 12:04 AM EDT reply actions  

Oh yeah, he probably will go on the DL.

Good things happen when Beltre is on his knees.
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash

by BoldandBrash on Jul 1, 2010 12:05 AM EDT reply actions  

courtesy of Barbarisi

http://twitter.com/DanBarbarisi

Good things happen when Beltre is on his knees.
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash

by BoldandBrash on Jul 1, 2010 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

good

Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson

by bestbostonsports on Jul 1, 2010 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

It should be Bowden time too.

Ramram is awful

"I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash

by BoldandBrash on Jul 1, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or Miller time...

Because I’m gonna need some kinda potent beverage the way this damn bullpen is performing… And yet, strangely, feeling pretty good about the season now – particularly considering how down I was after Paps pooped himself against the Yanks those many moons ago.

Never fails. The team has gotta be dead to me at least once before I can enjoy the season…

Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jul 1, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ugh...

Okay, but let it be known that by “elbow” and “shoulder” we mean “absolutely sucks ass at baseball.” As in:

Did you hear that Manny Delcarmen’s going to the DL?

Really? Why? For how long?

They think he has a chronic case of absolutely sucking ass at baseball. They expect him to be out for the rest of his major league career.

Wow. That’s tough. I hope he says “hi” to Craig Hansen…

Could be worse though, he could be sent to API with a diagnosis of “total pussy.” *cough*Jacoby*cough*

Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jul 1, 2010 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

He said the elbow problem was bothering him

for some time. Why didn’t he say something? Instead he just goes out there with a problem and sucks worse.

"I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash

by BoldandBrash on Jul 1, 2010 2:15 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Manny Delcarmen's elbow bothers him conveniently whenever he starts to regress to the mean.

He overperforms his peripherals, and then blames the return to average on injury so people won’t think he sucks—which he does.

USG

by Ben Buchanan on Jul 1, 2010 6:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

He was smote by the Bel-TRAY

I was maybe more kidding about Ells than comes through (definitely some frustration there, though), but I do think the sequestration in Arizona feels weird (a total subjective and personal aesthetic judgment). I wouldn’t mind trading him for value – although I’d prefer him performing for the Sox.

As for MDC, that’s how I regard most other players whose sudden performance declines accompany sudden claims of injury.

I was an MDC fan. For a long time, there was nothing not to like despite occasional bed-dumping and I think we could have sold pretty high on him at some point (not that it was a bad organizational decision not to, just illustrating). However, he’s been inconsistent like this for a while now, and to my mind that doesn’t jibe with the sudden injury talk. Obviously, even a moderately well-informed fan only gets a fraction of the information, but either he’s got some nagging but obviously important injury or mechanical flaw which should have been addressed before now, or he doesn’t and he just stinks.

Maybe the “rest of his career” comment was an overreach, but my subjective and anecdotal impression is that he can be much better than this, so I think it’s maybe time to give him a “tune up.”

Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jul 1, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

For the record...

… no problem at all with JDD, Pedroia, V-Mart, etc. Not even particularly worried about the injuries. Just think the Ells situation is a little hinky.

Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jul 1, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Time for...

MDC to go the way of the Dodo…

Sodomize Intolerance

by sonicdeathmonkey on Jul 1, 2010 1:49 AM EDT reply actions  

Cameron

Also note that Mike Cameron misjudged the ball that scored two runs, misjudged how close he was to the wall, and then put out his glove a good foot short of the ball. Ellsbury would have made that catch and Matsuzaka would have got out of the inning with only one run against!

by Hallelujah2004 on Jul 1, 2010 3:12 AM EDT reply actions  

That ball is fairly high off the wall. Probably a jump no matter how far back you go, and not an easy catch under any circumstances

But to say that Ellsbury would’ve judged the ball better than Cameron when that is the biggest weakness of his defense is a pretty big jump.

USG

by Ben Buchanan on Jul 1, 2010 5:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ok I hear the frustration just not the logic or inconsistent thinking

Maybe I am missing something here. Ok, I know we are all cheering for the hometeam and we all have our opinions on the Sox – so keep yours and keep posting and here are my thoughts…and, if you do not like them you can always have the option to print my comments and use them as toilet paper while getting a good laugh – so read on Sports fans

If the guy is injured maybe he is/was trying to work through it – however, at the same you blast Drew, Ells and others for being a candy ass but now you blast MDC for trying to tough it out. OMG some fans are worse than a fickle, irrational, spoiled child – damned if you do and damned if you dont!

IMO – I think Drew coddles himself – but he still has the sweetest swing and is a good OF – so I count on him for about 130-140 games and hope he is right for the postseason. If he needs to rest his injuries to produce what can I say? And, with that said he has his threshold and his pain is not my pain so what do I really know? That is just my opinion.

But, my musings on your (collective not individual0 injury views…
What about Ells? I guess he is done under your logic? Trade him now? Or should he play ‘cuz it is just some sore ribs?
Beckett ?- a bad back c’mon play ball? You wont throw your arm out…or, I guess we dump him too?
Pedroia? He is broke so cast him off too? Or, should he play with a cast on? I mean he is the Laser man…
V-Mart? What? Just rub a little dirt on your finger and get back in there? Or, dump him too?
Cameron – playing through pain so misses a ball dump him too or put him on the DL?

They are athletes – they get injured.

IMO, MDC does contribute – he is not a superstar but a decent reliever. He is just that a decent reliever. If his elbow is jacked up then I hope he can mend.
Either way, we will need more bullpen help if he is shut down. Oh yeah, Lowrie – I wanted to trade him after he made his debut – that guy is just too fragile – but, for those who have been waiting for him since 2007 maybe by 2011 you prove the rest of us wrong. That poor guy has the worse luck or he is just too fragile…

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Jul 1, 2010 3:25 AM EDT reply actions  

I'm not sure who this is in response to

Collective meaning all of ours? Because there’s really not so uniform an opinion. Contrasting one person’s views on MDC with, say, Sandy’s views on Ellsbury is pretty unfair. Actually, comparing anyone’s views on anything to Sandy’s views on anything is pretty unfair.

But Manny Delcarmen has a long history of inconsistency that has really just gotten worse over time. Other than 2008, he’s always vastly outperformed his peripherals, and often had a big time and entirely predictable regression. The thing is, that whenever he pitches poorly, all of a sudden the injury excuse comes out. It strikes me as more of a cop out than anything else. “Oh, I sucked? Better find an excuse so they’ll keep throwing me out there to suck a few months down the line!” He’s just bad now. Own up to it.

I do like the idea of trading Ellsbury, but that’s just because I figure someone out there will dramatically overvalue his speed, not because of injury concern. Cracked Ribs in a Beltre collision aren’t exactly surprising.

Beckett has also had a rash of injuries, and just hasn’t been the same as ‘07. Unlike Delcarmen, though, I expect it’s actually true for Beckett because there’s always murmurs before he’s actually diagnosed, and often before he even sucks. Don’t necessarily dump him, but man, that contract is looking awfully scary.

Pedroia got hit in the foot with a foul ball and has always been a great player. No problems.

Ditto Victor.

Cameron’s thing is likely age related, but we don’t have any reasonable replacement and if he ever gets back to be full strength.

But shutting down Manny Delcarmen won’t require more bullpen help, because he hasn’t BEEN any bullpen help. He actually carries a negative WAR at this point. Replacing him with a random guy who could turn out to be serviceable (like Robert Manuel) is a big plus.

USG

by Ben Buchanan on Jul 1, 2010 6:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Overall generalization 'collective' meaning random comments from various posters on this site through time that I have read

Yeah, in regards to NBN referencing Ells. Other than that, I was not aiming at anyone in particular. I am not really too familiar with indiv’s views. I was making an overall comment on the problem with sucking (possibly from being hurt) versus an injury and how the fans often react to the player. How would we know if the MDC is hurt? I am not a doctor..

I just notice that fans tend to get pissed if a player is injured and plays (Bill Buckner comes to mind – to stir up the pot here – he was very injured in 86 and should have been shut down – but he was a gamer) or if they sit on the bench to recoup/rehab during the injury.

Some of the players Pedroia, V-Mart, etc were to make my point as that would be absurd.

Here is another: Drew has been accused by me and others that he needs a spinal implant & the favorite nickname for him is Nancy Drew. However, when I say that I realize I am not Drew – so who really knows? Either way fans start calling for the axe when a player is not performing.

I stated I understand the frustration with MDC as when he comes to the mound I hold my breath. My thought is he is average enough to keep in the Bullpen – as the Sox have done the past few years. But, your points above make a good case to drop him like a bad habit. And, if he sucks because he is injured then it is an issue – and he needs to get healthy as opposed to he sucks because he really sucks – see your points above that make that case.

But, most bullpen pitchers are like prostitutes – they look good when they first come up – but then most decline pretty rapidly from overuse. Maybe we need a new hooker in the pen?
Cheers!

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Jul 1, 2010 7:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ugh
but then most decline pretty rapidly from overuse.

Bard, I fear for you.

USG

by Ben Buchanan on Jul 1, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes that line made me scared.

Join the Lacrosse community at Nationallacrosseleagueblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson

by bestbostonsports on Jul 1, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, I do hope he is the exception!

Papelbon is starting to worry me – I always admired that he (until last year) went out there and ended the threat – now it is like a matinee when he trots to the mound – you just don’t know what to expect.

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Jul 1, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

If there's one guy who's been felled by arrogance, he's the one.

Let his secondary pitches die because, hell, he can make due with his fastball alone! Then changed his mechanics because, hell, he needs to keep the arm healthy for his big payday. Now he can’t get guys out with his fastball, because he can’t locate it, and the splitter is up in the zone if it’s ever even thrown.

USG

by Ben Buchanan on Jul 1, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Could it be

that the Sox conditioning and protective device programs are not up to stuff?? Do all programs suffer this many injuries this often?? You can overlook such items because you are coinditioned to be a blind fan, but maybe they are not all coincidences!

by NG on Jul 1, 2010 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

How can you protect against the kind of shit that happens to Ellsbury, Victor, and Pedroia?

You want them wearing football pads? Pedroia already wears a shin protector. How about a whole boot so he can’t get to second even on a ball into the triangle?

USG

by Ben Buchanan on Jul 1, 2010 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

You're just a Blind Fan Not-USG!

Take off your blindfold so you can really see

DFA Beckett

by South Coast Ghost on Jul 1, 2010 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

New Road Unis


The Injury-Preventing Miracles of Bubble-Wrap

Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jul 1, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m sorry, unless other teams are injecting their players bones with steel like Wolverine than there isn’t really anything you can try to pin on management per usual.

Let’s look at the injuries this year:
Ellsbury – Cracked Ribs
Hermida – Cracked Ribs
Martinez – Broken finger
MDC – Sucking and making excuses
Lowrie – Kissing too many girls in Ft. Meyers (Don’t hate the playa, hate the game)
Pedrioa – Broken foot
Cameron – Ab strain
Lowell – The same hip he had sliced open by a surgeon
Buchholz – hamstring running bases, not an uncommon or unpredictable injury for an AL pitcher in interleague.
Beckett – who knows, they say back strain.

So out of all of these, only two, Cameron and Beckett are conditioning related and how many times have you put out your back carrying things or falling or sleeping funny on your side? I think they easily fall under the “shit happens” category.

I mean, unless management starts having players stand in front of a pitching machine to “toughen ’em up a little” there isn’t much that can be done, Beltre’s knee to the chest is going to break ribs at those speeds whether you’re Jacoby Ellsbury, James Bond, Indiana Jones or your neighbor Bob.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Jul 1, 2010 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Teaching players

not to play chicken with walls or areas they do notsurely belong could go a long way to prevent such dangerous crashes! As for protective devices, steel toed shoes sure might help and other simple such things!

Also, that Beckett decline was pretty obvious to anyone with their eyes open following this team, so why sign him as if he was something he was not. Now he has no incentives to perform.

I think maagement shoulders a lot of blame for this so called unbelievable injury coincidence.

by NG on Jul 1, 2010 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well shoes and protection are a league issue, not a Sox management issue. These players know that running into their third baseman could be hazardous for their health, they’re taught from an early age, elementary school even, to call someone off if you’ve got it. It’s one of those things that they need to know at this stage and probably isn’t emphasized because it’s a no-brainer in your best interest sort of thing. Accidents happen, can’t you possibly accept that? Or do car drivers hit each other on purpose? Surely they should know not to hit others cars but it happens all the time anyway.

Do you really need to be taught the different between decline and injury again? Beckett is hurt, that is very, very clear just by looking at his performance this year. Unlike football players, most good baseball players decline pretty slowly, and usually in their late-30s, not at 30 in their prime. A decline is a slow downturn in ability, slowly loosing control and speed and slowly causing an inflation in walk, HR rates and in turn the ERA because a lot of players learn to adapt and change their skill set to match their lessening abilities. What Beckett did this year wasn’t an age decline, it was crashing full speed into a wall. That is the tell tale sign of injury, he wasn’t throwing the same and it had a massive negative impact on his game.

And how in what possible way was his decline clear? Do I really, once again have to point our LAST YEAR? The UPWARD trend in ability from the year before? His 17 win, 3.86 ERA, 4.2 WAR season? No one is ever going to say that Beckett was the most consistent or best pitcher ever, but he’s a damn good one who, if he can avoid injury, will be playing for many more years with good success.

Seriously, go become a Yankees fan, I’m not even kidding. You hate Sox management, you hate most of our players. You seem like the type of person who (E.Coli forgive my poor attempt here) would love to walk around to their friends going “OHEMGEE LOOK AT MAH RINGZZZ!”.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Jul 1, 2010 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

And you seem to think you know it all!

Make a phrase, and you think you have said the gospel. Well my friend, there are many ways to look at things, and my way makes perfect sense to me. You are not making any good case to change my mind from how I explain reality. Why don’t you go over to a Yankee blog and sell your one-sided views that you thing are gospel.

by NG on Jul 1, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

It’s that you continually reject factual information, fact, Beckett was good last year, fact Beckett was bad this year. You instantly assume that it’s because he’s old or something and declining whereas evidence suggests something totally otherwise. Unless you can spot that decline using a fact based, objective approach then there really isn’t an argument there. My eyes were open, I saw the same effective Beckett on the mound last year.

You see a bunch of injuries and assume bad conditioning by the team whereas the fact is that most of these injuries are due to accidents caused by the players themselves but you like to blame management for absolutely unpredictable results.

In an objective way you cannot have predicted these injuries and short comings by our players this year, nor the over achievement of players like Pedrioa, Youk (who people projected to have a down year), McDonald, Nava.

You never give the management credit for things they do right, we’re right at the top of the league in wins this year and yet you just can’t help but bring up the “decline of Beckett” that management should have seen coming. Maybe they did, maybe that’s why despite his injury, we’re winning without him (my own subjective thought for you!).

I apologize for being immature but you’ve gotta put yourself in our shoes, you post here occasionally, and never do you have a single positive thing to say regardless of how the team has been performing on the long term, if the team drops one or two here you are with subjective analysis that objective thought can easily overturn. Your name here has been embedded with negative connotation in our minds because of things that you said. You don’t join in the chit chat or any of the positive debates with us, just the negative ones and because of that it’s very easy to get frustrated with you when you come in here and say things like “clearly beckett has been in decline.” Because A) it just isn’t true and B) it’s the same old story you always post here.

There are always arguments and disagreements here, happens daily, because it’s a sport, emotion is involved and there are lots of ways to see things, some people think we should get player A and others think we should get player B for different reasons and we feel strongly about them. But the arguments are always logical and objective and then we go to the game threads and chat and watch the game and see what hilarious photos gizmo is going to post.

I don’t think my word is gospel, but if someone presented me with a logical, non-subjective, well thought out argument against what I think, I’m likely to change my mind. I had a lot of bad opinions when I first came here and I learned quickly that they were bad opinions as the artist formerly known as USG and others showed me proof as to why they were bad. You’re closer to thinking your word is gospel than I am for I can accept others well thought out arguments and you reject fact so easily.

What I said was a very impolite way to say, maybe you’re at the wrong venue. This is a community with a lot of people and there really aren’t many people that share the same beliefs that you do, I think they would have shown themselves by now. I hope you stay, the more the merrier but you’ve got to make an effort to cut down on the subjective and take a look at the objective side of things, or give up that bandwagon title and try being happy with the team on the site occasionally or post positive things. If you leave, well, bye, thanks for giving me something to do at work when I’m bored and I wish you luck at your next destination.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Jul 1, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

BTW,

I don’t mind your concept and numbers discusssions, but you must leave the immature ad hominem attacks out of it. I surely will leave this blog if such immature actions continue!

by NG on Jul 1, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

He's really gonna leave?

I sure hope so

"I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash

by BoldandBrash on Jul 1, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am pretty sure Cameron kept himself in top physical condition

Your points are correct I think except for Cameron. One of the reasons the Sox chose Cameron was because he has such a regimented workout process. My understanding is Cameron’s conditioning is very enviable – the injury just happened. Anyone else know anything more about his injury? Overall, I think the injury rash is just a fluke. The good news is hopefully the 2nd half we will be healthy. I think the starting OF has only taken the field 4 TIMES this year!

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Jul 1, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

That’s what I’m saying, out of all of our injuries that COULD be a system issue, only Beckett and Cameron fall under that category. They, more than likely, are flukes, like most injuries.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Jul 1, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cameron has a sports hernia

Let’s be fair to the man. He needs surgery after the season ends. Cameron is a physical freak in excellent shape.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Jul 2, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes and it is unfortunate

and gotta be tough for someone that keeps in shape and wants to be out there everyday, but nonetheless, he just isn’t performing up to his usual level offensively or defensively. More specifically, he doesn’t have his usual power and his throws look weaker than usual, and yeah, both of those can be easily traced to an ab injury (range may be as well but I don’t think the injury’s that bad, I think he’s still just adjusting and hasn’t played that many games with Boston yet).

But whatever the cause (and I have nothing against him because of it, I thought he was a good signing and still think he’s a good player, healthy), he isn’t playing up to his potential.

by wolf9309 on Jul 2, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dude...

It’s adamantium

Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jul 1, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I forgot that term that reference that is a classic

Did you know also that Captain America’s shield was made from that? With alloys like that who needs a kevlar and porcelein mix in our current IBA we are issued?

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Jul 1, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I believe...

That Cap’s shield was either (a) an adamantium/omnium alloy or (b) an adamantium/Wakandan vibranium alloy. It was apparently a freak accident bonding the metals and was never duplicated…

Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jul 1, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

see comments at the bottom of thread for the new team physician...

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Jul 1, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ugh

This is the type of game that makes you want to trade Will Middlebrooks and Manny Rivera for Matt Capps. Thanks Little Manny!

DFA Beckett

by South Coast Ghost on Jul 1, 2010 6:31 AM EDT reply actions  

Ramirez sucks too ...

HR at 0-2 … and what about Sally Drew? he got a bobo?

by Old Fan on Jul 1, 2010 6:46 AM EDT reply actions  

2 guys that suck

Is it just me but does anyone think Camron is any good for the team? He has the weakest arm ever. He was in mid out feild and couldnt throw out the runner at home. Than he miss plays a fly ball out and allows 2 extra runs. If 50 balls were hit to center Mike would catch 25 and Jacoby would catch 40. Whoa Teo you F up really really bad with this good for nothing POS. What about the new gu they picked up? This guy just looks sorry. What a waste of myspace

by Lets go boston lets go on Jul 1, 2010 7:30 AM EDT reply actions  

where are all of these new posters coming from??

and can we get some that can elucidate a point or at the very least type correctly?

by BobZupcic on Jul 1, 2010 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

are you realllllly going to first insult Cameron's arm and then talk about how "Noodles" Ellsbury is better?

Though Cameron has looks bad defensively, this is true. He also hasn’t played a ton yet and it could just be taking a few games to get used to the new surroundings (looked on that catch yesterday like he wasn’t quite aware of where the wall was). Beltre certainly didn’t look defensively great at the beginning, but is back to the defensive wizard that we all knew he was. It’s possible that Cameron’s injury is keeping him from fielding well, but it seems more likely that he’ll be back to his defensively great self pretty soon.

by wolf9309 on Jul 1, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not really fair to mention Beltre here. Clearly he feeds off of the injuries of teammates. As our players fall to the DL he keeps getting better and better.

Cameron is in fact human.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Jul 1, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Great idea! They couldn’t be much worse anyway, if it helps Beltre get that 40 HR swing back.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Jul 1, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually Cam was and if he is healthy could be a much better defender than Ells.

The only problem is that Cam was 37 when he signed, and he broke down. This has completely effected his game in a negative way.

"I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash

by BoldandBrash on Jul 1, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Terminology Question...

“Broke down” implies a more systematic failure of skill and conditioning, to me at least. I think Cameron’s got a hole in his abdominal muscles – which would explain generally subpar performance with a more acute and specific cause and betokens less of a “this guy will never be good again” feeling.

Again, not disagreeing, just that was my impression

Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jul 1, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, I meant he physically got injured.

When you get older, you are more prone to injury.

"I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash

by BoldandBrash on Jul 1, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jul 1, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

If 50 balls were hit to center Mike would catch 25 and Jacoby would catch 40

No

USG

by Ben Buchanan on Jul 1, 2010 7:32 AM EDT reply actions  

Let's be real here.

I would catch all 50.

"I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash

by BoldandBrash on Jul 1, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

No doubt

Even if they were hit 2 or 3 at a time, I assume…

Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jul 1, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nothing

Ellsbury makes bad reads. Cameron has been slowed by injury, but saying that he absolutely should have caught that ball last night is just wrong.

USG

by Ben Buchanan on Jul 1, 2010 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Umm no, the better question is what YOU smokin?? Ellsbury has a history of bad reads and subpar defense in center. Cameron’s injury at worst makes them even due to his loss of range.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Jul 1, 2010 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Reality

That’s what I’m smoking when I say you’re wrong

DFA Beckett

by South Coast Ghost on Jul 1, 2010 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Can we please get some bullpen help...

Even in the win on Tuesday the bullpen was bad. And it is also a pain to watch.

Bring up Bowden and Doubront then get someone at the trading deadline.

by Mike-Dub on Jul 1, 2010 9:30 AM EDT reply actions  

Manuel first! I have a feeling Doubront is going to get a call to start soon depending on Buchholz and off days.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Jul 1, 2010 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

With Doubront pitching last night in Pawtucket,

it lines him up perfectly for a spot start if Buchholz has to miss his next start with the lower hamstring issue on his landing leg. Doubront as insurance puts me at ease.

Robert Manuel’s time has come. Even though he doesn’t have the velocity on his fastball to put batters away, I hope he gets his chance to be the righty version of 2007 Okajima.

by went9 on Jul 1, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Anyone instead of MDC, Oki, and Ram Ram...

I can’t stand watching those three they are so bad.

by Mike-Dub on Jul 1, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Manuel and Bowden

"I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash

by BoldandBrash on Jul 1, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Paiging paiging Dr. Myron MacLain please give Theo Epstein a call

Maybe he should be the Sox new Team physician – if not him then we could always try to paige Dr. Stew Pidassle

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Jul 1, 2010 2:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Nice...

Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jul 1, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Apparently, Dr. Pidassle has sons who post here after losses only

And, they do not appreciate well written rebuttals..or well thought out analysis

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Jul 1, 2010 2:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Truly

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I guess. I think everyone would feel better if they at least enjoyed the dizzying highs and the creamy middle of the Sox’s performance – as opposed to chiming in only on the downstroke.

It’s not surprising it ends up in a kerfuffle sometimes.

I also wish they would stop hating on Timmy Wakefield.

Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jul 1, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well... let's be straightforward,

Wake has sucked

"I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash

by BoldandBrash on Jul 1, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

True

But they’ve hated him well before he had 66% bad starts

Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jul 1, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup Timmy is an innings eater and consistent that chaffes me too

I agree. We have all heard the downside to opinions being compared to arseholes…On Timmy – as a 5th starter what more can you ask for? Did I mention that the Yankees suck?

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Jul 1, 2010 3:00 PM EDT reply actions  

define sucks

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Jul 1, 2010 3:06 PM EDT reply actions  

low level of performance

You’re talking about Wake right? 1.36 HR/9, 4.74 FIP, 5.21 ERA. He has done an Ok job filling in the rotation while Beckett has been out, but he isn’t somebody I would want in the rotation.

"I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash

by BoldandBrash on Jul 1, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

True

But it’s a dry heat…

Same old Wake; good start followed by bad start followed by good start. The only problem is that I doubt we’ll get that 6-7 start “good Wakefield” run this year. Not enough reps…

Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jul 1, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was not clear I meant sucks as to the context of his role

Not sucks as compared to Beckett. But, more like sucks as a bullpen spot starter or sucks as even a 5th starter in the league I don’t have league stats for those comparisons but I would guess he is competitive from that context

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Jul 1, 2010 3:33 PM EDT reply actions  

I said earlier that in his role he is Ok,

but I don’t really want him in the rotation.

"I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash

by BoldandBrash on Jul 1, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

speaking of 'dry heat' Iraq sucks

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Jul 1, 2010 3:35 PM EDT reply actions  

I hear several cities in the middle east and central asia broke temperature records in the last few weeks, something like 128 degrees F if I remember correctly. I can’t even fathom that. Stay cool.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Jul 1, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

will do and I need to punch out it is almost 1040 pm here in Baghdad

it is like opening the oven and sticking your head in it

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Jul 1, 2010 3:39 PM EDT reply actions  

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