More Injury Concern for Mike Cameron
by Ben Buchanan on Jun 2, 2010 6:00 AM EDT
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PrintThe Red Sox just can't seem to get healthy.
Just two days after going 2-3 with a pair of doubles, Mike Cameron sat out last night's game against the Athletics with abdominal soreness. While this would seem to be no surprise--Cameron has spent most of the season on the disabled list with an abdominal tear--the soreness is, bafflingly enough, on the opposite side of his body this time around.
Per a Scott Lauber Tweet, an MRI showed that Cameron's old injury has, indeed, been healing. But with his pain having returned, the Red Sox will have a specialist take another look at the new pain today. With Jacoby Ellsbury's cracked ribs still keeping him off the field, the Sox can hardly afford another prolonged injury in the outfield.
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UGGGGHH
Jermaine Dye is available.
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by bestbostonsports on Jun 2, 2010 6:07 AM EDT reply actions
So are a few PawSox guys
Any of them ready for big-league play?
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by lone1c on Jun 2, 2010 6:16 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Or Reddick
With Kalish and, with a little luck, a fully recovered Westmoreland in the pipeline, Reddick may be trade bait. I like him better than Hermida right now, but agreed with the decision to send him to Pawtucket so he could get regular ABs. I wouldn’t mind seeing him in Boston if Cameron needs to miss more time — if he plays well, he could be more valuable in a trade.
Then again, isn’t Nava 27? If he’s not ready for the big leagues now, when will he be?
Problem with Reddick is that he's not even performing in AAA.
Maybe a major-league stint jump starts him, or maybe it sinks him.
USG
No Reddick
Kalish?
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by bestbostonsports on Jun 2, 2010 7:39 AM EDT up reply actions
OK. Who to promote….. Bates?
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by bestbostonsports on Jun 2, 2010 7:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. Nava ain’t a major leaguer
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by bestbostonsports on Jun 2, 2010 7:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Not really what he said, was it?
Nava’s never had a shot in the majors. He’s performed at every level so far. Give him a shot.
USG
Yeah even independent league!!
Give a shot over who? McDonald? He’s more proven than Nava
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by bestbostonsports on Jun 2, 2010 7:48 AM EDT up reply actions
McDonald is already on the damn team.
And Nava has more potential than him. You act like independent league is a death sentence. Kevin Millar started in the independent leagues. So did a lot of other players. There’s a reason they look at these leagues and sign their best players, and it’s not because they need roster spots to fill, or else they’d never release guys.
USG
OK geez you didn’t have to get mad.
I was just wondering who he would replace
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by bestbostonsports on Jun 2, 2010 8:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh duh. Haha, oops!
OK, Nava it is
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by bestbostonsports on Jun 2, 2010 8:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Nava doesn't have as much potential as Hermida, though
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by BoldandBrash on Jun 2, 2010 9:42 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
LOL
Hermidas potential doesn’t exist
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by bestbostonsports on Jun 2, 2010 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Why not just play a corpse in the outfield?
You’d get better defense and comparable hitting.
Dye can hit for power
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by bestbostonsports on Jun 2, 2010 7:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Dye won't sign because Boston is racist
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plus, Dye would likely need extra ST time,
so signing him for right now wouldn’t make sense.
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plus he's bad.
Has anyone even seen how well he hit the second half of last year? It was ugly.
I’m not sure why we would spend millions of dollars signing a bitter, unpleasant old outfielder who can’t field worth anything, might not be able to hit anymore, and needs ST to be ready to play. Especially when the person we might need to replace is our center fielder.
Ha
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by bestbostonsports on Jun 2, 2010 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions
So could David Ortiz in April
Hitting for power doesn’t do you much good when you can’t make contact.
The key difference is that Ortiz worked out his problems, while Dye will just create more.
Plus Ortiz can probably play a better OF at this point
Jermaine Dye is terrible at baseball. He adds nothing. Bad contact ability, bad approach at the plate, terrible glove. Why the hell would we want that guy?
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This is what you get from a 37 year old.
They break down.
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Yep.
They shoulda kept Ells in center
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by bestbostonsports on Jun 2, 2010 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Why?
Cam is injured, so it doesn’t matter what he can play. Are you saying CF caused his injury?
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by BoldandBrash on Jun 2, 2010 9:07 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No, I mean Ellsbury wouldn’t have got hurt. I also feel like he’s being wasted in left.
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by bestbostonsports on Jun 2, 2010 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions
keeping someone in center because they're too oblivious to not run into somebody else playing in left
is stupid. Cameron is a much better fielder, hands down.
Cam is the better CF
Ells has bad reads sometimes. Usain Bolt probably wouldn’t be a good CF. It isn’t all about speed.
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by BoldandBrash on Jun 2, 2010 9:40 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Is this all because of the uzr stuff?
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by bestbostonsports on Jun 2, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Cameron
Is one of the premier defenders in the league, for many years. The injuries are unfortunate, but putting Cameron in CF was the right move.
-5000
Pedro Martinez was a premier pitcher, too. As athletes age their bodies break down. Expecting Cameron to perform close to his peak was unrealistic at best.
by Christopher B on Jun 2, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
His peak
has essentially been every year. Last year, he was great defensively.
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You know, there is a reason why Ted Williams
and Carl Yastremski are not playing outfield for the Sox now. Use you perceptive powers to figure out why, and you will see what is soon in store for Cameron!
Youth, go young!
by NG on Jun 2, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
And do you think they went from peak
to finished overnight?
by NG on Jun 2, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
They did not
Which establishes that it’s crazy to expect people to. Which establishes there was no reason to expect Cameron to.
USG
In his last season Williams batted .316/.451/.645.
At age 40 Yaz batted .270/.346/.450 – in a less offensive minded era. He was an All Star at ages 29-35 and 42 & 43.
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The point is
that an aged player will injure moe often and more easily, be affected by such injuries more, and take longer to heal. Alll these factors will make it harder for the team to depend on such an aged player, something the Sox seem slow to realize!
by NG on Jun 2, 2010 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
your point is flawed for several reasons
1) injuries happen at any age to any player
2) healing rates do slow down with age, but the rate of difference between a 37 year old and a 30 year old is probably negligible.
3) your point is a sweeping generalization that ignores the particular realities of the player. Cameron is known to be in great physical shape – arguably in way better condition than the average 27 year old MLB player.
4) if you are looking for clues indicating Cameron has already entered a period of age-related decline, good luck. A freak injury is not such. It is just an injury. And his numbers over the last few seasons give no indication his baseball skills have declined much if at all.
5) you have no basis upon which to assume the Sox are slow to realize any of these facts. I expect they are well aware of all of them. They are very aware also that they have signed these various veterans to contracts that expire just as they expect a whole lot of young talent to be MLB-ready or tradeable for same.
Life man!
Are you unaware that age greatly slows injury healing. Go to medical school or a bariartic centers if you have to, but just being alive should tell you that. Are you serious here?. You are talking major league play here, not checkers, so such healing rate delay effect difference are exaggerated.
Tell me just what Cameron’s freak injury was and what caused it?? I know what Ellsbury’s injury was becasue it was obvious to the world and would have happened to anyone. (BTW, Ellsbury will heal faster than someone Cameron’s age.) As for Cameron, his injury was so not-noticeable that it well may be 100% age related in which case it will never be totally healed for major league caliber play!! It is called getting old and it is a fact of life.
Finally, look at the aged Sox lineups now and over the years to see how long they stick with older less reliable players!
by NG on Jun 3, 2010 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions
So
The general health and condition of a person has no bearing on their health? It’s all age? Yes as you age you’re ability to stay healthy can decline, but that is by and far not the only factor. Seriously, I’m 27 and if I’m injured the same way Cameron is, I’m willing to bet he heals faster.
Assume all major league players
tried to stay conditioned! Then age again is the deciding factor. It is a no-brainer.
by NG on Jun 3, 2010 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
You can assume that all you want
But it doesn’t mean it’s true. And even if they try, some people can stay conditioned much better than others. Everyone in MLB is not a physical clone of each other.
This.
Is the point.
The Red Sox understand statistics better than probably most other teams. But even they know that you have to look at the particulars of each individual before you make any assessments. You don’t just look at population statistics. You look at their individual metrics.
And the latter has far more weight.
Expecting him to perform similar to the previous two years is not unrealistic. Pedro had obvious medical issues, that were seen by the FO, and taken into account. Yes the risk w/ Cameron existed, nobody said it didn’t, but a proven track record with out obvious signs of failure means a decline is immediate.
as Randy says, Cam's peak was pretty much last year
and the several years preceding it.
This is just a freak injury that would be tough for anyone at any age to heal.
Cameron will be fine. Once this is healed, he’ll be pretty much the same as he has been both offensively and defensively for many years. Which is better in CF than Ellsbury has been.
Partially
But if you watch Ells play CF enough, you can tell.
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by BoldandBrash on Jun 2, 2010 2:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yes, no real surprises here
37 year old athletes tend to break down and have touble bouncing back quickly. Face it, Cameron may be done or rendered ineffective for the season with this injury, leving the Sox in real trouble in the OF.
The real issue here is with Theo’s decision not to retain Bay, opting to replace him with a lighter hitting much older player in Cameron for a shorter term. Sure, Bay is off to a slow start, but at least he is playing and his production has been very consistent for many years.
The Bay decision had a lot more to it than just this season. Theo would have to commit to at least 4 years, blocking Kalish and/or Reddick.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
Exactly.
This was not a Bay v Cameron issue. Theo did the right thing in not taking on either the length OR the size of Bay’s contract. Again, Bay’s value is offense, not defense. We are not hurting for offense right now. Having Bay right now would be paying a ton of $$ for something we don’t need.
And further, an abdominal tear could happen to anyone at any age. As far as Cameron’s healing rate, there is no indication that he original injury is taking longer than anyone would take. This new issue is on the other side, probably a strain due to over compensation.
I don’t see anyone saying Ellsbury is clearly too old and that’s why he is healing so slowly (instead at his age the talking heads start murmuring that he’s “soft”, which is equally ridiculous).
Pssst.
Hey Teets, Nava is a switch hitter. You woudn’t have to play Hall anymore.
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by BoldandBrash on Jun 2, 2010 9:05 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Is Ells officially on the DL again?
If so, they might have room for Nava. Cam will probably DL, so there will definitely be room.
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by BoldandBrash on Jun 2, 2010 9:10 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Ells has been on the DL a week
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by bestbostonsports on Jun 2, 2010 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions
It's ok guys, Bill Hall will pick up the slack!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
….no seriously, we need out OF back. Now.
We need A outfield.
Last night is proof that Hall can’t play OF. He doesn’t catch catchable balls. That could cost us games.
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by BoldandBrash on Jun 2, 2010 9:38 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Can the Sox get rid of Hall before Lowell's traded?
I think the problem is that Lowell eats up a position on the bench without getting much playing time. If Lowell were traded, and we could have a utility IF take the spot, the need for Hall would be much lower. As it is, though, right now he’s on the team as the backup 2B/SS, not an outfielder.
The real solution is to TRADE LOWELL. Then the rest of the pieces can fall where they will.
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by lone1c on Jun 2, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
no one good, but a warm body probably.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
Just opening the roster spot has value in itself.
We could replace Hall & Lowell with any of several IFs and OFs from the minors and get an immediate upgrade in bench defense.
Yup. "defense, dude."
-18 Defensive runs saved last year. Equally awful this year when he plays.
He’s been hitting overwhelmingly against LHPs (supposedly which he crushes) and do you know what Mike Lowell’s line is this year?
.239/.329/.358.
He stinks. Check out his defense and performance this year and last before you go saying dumb shit. This is without correcting for the fact Fenway hugely boosted his numbers last year. Oh, and he can’t run the bases anymore.
Hey, but at least he doesnt bitch about playing time right? At least he doesn’t complain to the press after big team losses, right?
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Someone better than Hall
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by BoldandBrash on Jun 2, 2010 2:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Completely agree.
The problem is exactly that. I love Mikey for all he did for us, but right now Lowell is a very expensive waste of a roster spot.
If we had that position free, we could replace both Hall and Lowell with a dedicated infielder and a dedicated outfielder instead of just having Hall the hybrid.
Hall has come through lately with some nice clutch hits, but his defense is killing us. Two runs last night came after he misplayed what should have been a fly out into a double.
The Angels have to be looking at him too now
With Morales out, they need someone who can hit and play 1B, and Lowell is probably one of the better options available right now.
The Angels have said interest in Lowell is not there.
They have other choices they like more.
White Sox match best to me.
They can say whatever they like
In their place, I’d love to trade for Pujols. But just because they have other options they like better doesn’t mean they’re actually going to be able to trade for those options.
Barring a trade for Konerko, who will cost them a heck of a lot more than Lowell, I don’t see that the Angels really do have many better options given that they just want an inexpensive but still good rental for the rest of this season.
Adam LaRoche is one option they are looking into.
Link: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/06/adam-laroches-trade-value.html
I would be happy if any team steps up to open the Lowell roster spot.
And I loved Mike Lowell before his right hip went on him.
He's a 10/10 player
He’s been with the other Sox since at least 1999 — I caught my first foul ball at a game that summer in which he hit a home run against Boston.
But he played for the Dodgers early in his career and almost signed with the Angels after winning the World Series in 2005. He might be willing to waive his no-trade rights if he thinks he has a better chance at a ring this year there. Given that the AL West is weak, the Angels are only 2.5 games back, and the White Sox would have to pass Minnesota and Detroit, which are both better teams, he may be up for it.
I think the bigger issue is his salary. The Angels won’t want to pay it and the White Sox won’t make the trade if they have to pay it, not without something significant in return. That’s really the biggest advantage of a trade for Lowell — the Red Sox are probably more willing to eat the salary.
Is there such a category as
a 10/10 player?
10/5, I know; ten years in the bigs/ five on the same team gives the player no trade rights.
Anyhow, the Angels need help at firstbase right now. Ken Griffey just retired from the Mariners, so that’s another team that Lowell could help. The Rangers have looked at Lowell all year and the White Sox have now lost Mark Teahen with a broken finger. Lowell could help Chicago at 3rd, 1st, and DH. That’s if Chicago doesn’t throw in the towel.
For small money and a prospect, “Hip and a Half Lowell” still can help a team.
Please find a spot for this man.
No, there's no such category
I was just remarking on exactly how long his tenure has been with the White Sox.
Got it. Here's another Angel's firstbase option.
Xavier Nady:
He’s been playing some 1st base and could be used in the OF if Kendry Morales comes back later this season.
Link:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/06/angels-in-talks-to-acquire-derrek-lee.html
Well, he's not much worse an option for them than Lowell
The problem is that they have a lot of outfielders already. They need Abreu in the game for his OBP, they’re not going to take Hunter out of the field, Matsui usually DH’s for them, Rivera isn’t very good but would probably have to be traded to create room for Nady in the outfield, they’re trying to find playing time for Willits, and I think they have another outfielder around too.
Also, Lowell is, even now, a much better defensive player than Nady, and I think if he got regular ABs, he’d be a much better offensive player too. On the other hand, Nady is younger and cheaper, though the Sox would probably eat Lowell’s salary in a trade.
How about Lowell and we pay for Daniel Murphy?
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Do the Mets even want Lowell?
anything to get Hall from playing the OF
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Uh... I meant the Rangers OF, our former first round pick.
I doubt Lowell alone can even land him, though… but its pretty clear he doesn’t fit prominently in the Rangers’ plans.
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Orange County needs a 1B with Morales out
I’m not sure they really have anyone we want, though. Certainly not a utility infielder who’d really be an upgrade over Hall.
At this point it I’d imagine the Office is trying to find some major league quality depth for the OF, making the assumption that Cam, Ells or both might not stay healthy for any prolonged stretch this season. I think a guy like Corey Patterson would make sense.
I'd prefer someone who could play a legitimate CF.
Patterson has really slowed in recent years IIRC.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jun 2, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
He has certainly slowed,
but the guy is a professional OF’er, gets good jumps, takes good routes. Do you have anyone else in mind who could be easily acquired and provide some kind of upgrade?
by SendEmHomeKim on Jun 2, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Would they even trade him?
Probably someone good.
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DFA Bogar
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Jun 2, 2010 2:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well, then
I think we came out on top in that one. But like… what? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I didn’t see the Tigers get anyone of that callibur in the trade. Was it just that they got four guys?
The pitcher from Arizona
Is supposed to be pretty good. Perhaps not Buchholz good, but him and numbers didn’t seem like a bad deal for them.
actually, no i think I misremembered
I’m pretty sure it was Ellsbury now that I think about it, not Buchholz. But I’m too lazy to verify that right now.
I don’t think they got anyone quite that level, but they got some good talent in Austin Jackson and the two AZ pitchers.
Granderson has pretty much missed just as much time
as Cameron and Ellsbury. I guess he’s healthy now though.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Jun 2, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
We don't need him. He isn't that good.
We couldn’t count on injuries.
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DFA Bogar
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by BoldandBrash on Jun 2, 2010 2:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Put Nava and McDonald in the same outfield
and just sit back and listen to the MLB Network spew chunks and possibly implode over the “Amazing paths to the Majors”
It's clear now that both Ells and Cameron
were rushed back with damaging results. The Mets have been lit up by fans and media for their perceived mishandling of injured players over the past few years and I think the Sox deserve to face some serious scrutiny. This seems especially true with Cameron, who should have been handled with care as an older player. I think back to the Ellsbury to center, Cameron to left experiment which lasted all of zero games as an example of knee-jerk decision making. Obviously Cameron wasn’t fully healthy and they knew it.
So you think this is a completely unrelated injury?
That seems like a pretty big coincidence. More likely, as a pitcher might do he was trying to take the strain off of his injured area and wound up causing further damage.
by SendEmHomeKim on Jun 2, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
On Ellsbury, you may have a point, but I think you're wrong about Cameron
Ellsbury clearly did make things worse by coming back too soon, and the medical staff has to take some if not most of the blame for that. But while it’s reasonable to expect Cameron to be a little less robust when he first comes off the DL, he looked fine in the minors, and it’s not unreasonable to expect that he’s going to get sore more easily all over his body for a little while. Playing baseball every day is hard on the body even when you’re completely healthy and young, but when you’re 37 and coming back from an injury, you’re going to have to take an extra day or two off for a while.
Update
The injury isn’t serious and he has some inflammation. He should be back for Baltimore. http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2010/06/cameron_ok_beck.html
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Youkilis for MVP 2010
DFA Bogar
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
yeah, sounds to me like Francona and crew are just being cautious
they are always very conservative with injuries so this is not surprising.
With as well as the team has been playing, they are sort of ‘getting away’ with the poor outfield play of Hall/Hermida/McDonald. Scoring 5-6 runs per game covers up a lot of mistakes.
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