the Masterson plan
by 18-1 damn on Jun 1, 2010 3:27 PM EDT
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PrintHas any one noticed that Justin Masterson is absolutely wasting his talent in Cleveland? I would think with the state of our bullpen, Theo would be on the phone with Cleveland to see what they would want for him. Here his line for this season in the baseball ~ to the black hole. 0-5 5.87 ERA 54 K 27 BB 1.81 WHIP. Just like Bucholtz in AAA these pitchers need fielders behind them to be effective. Mr. Crazy Bugs Bunny Curveball could be the piece of the bull pen that would solidify them for the rest of the season. I know that Justin is a starter, but I believe that just like Joba, Justin is an ELITE RP and an Good-Very Good SP. Why not choose the position that you’re going to dominate in?
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Rose colored glasses
I think you have fond memories that have been distorted by absence and time.
Last time I checked Masterson could not get Lefties out. So that does not make him an “Elite RP.”
1) he would cost too much, 2) there are better options to trade for who can get lefties out and 3) I highly doubt he is available, considering his age and costs.
Mike Lowell to the Angels for one of their young bullpen pieces seems like the most obvious way to get bullpen help. But I could be wrong. Angel FO is stubborn and would rather lose the AL West than give up a piece of their much heralded (within their organization) farm system.
ok Elite is the wrong word
I was pointing out that he was more productive as a RP then a SP. DO we need a lefty specialist? I feel lefty specialists are hard to come by and can just a take up a roster position on most nights. Could any team benifit from having one, sure. I do remeber him not pitching to well to Lefties on most occations, but like most baseball players they do develope and evolve there games to be more complete players. Are you saying that he could never get lefties out in the future? Seems a little short sighted. I like the idea of moving lowel as much as I like him as a person. He just is not a value to us and we should try to get him to a team that is gonna let him play out his years left.
Jeffrey M Melhorn
I'm saying if I'm getting a bullpen guy
I’m not going to be choosing the guy who might, at some point in the future, be able to get lefties out. I’m getting an actual well rounded player NOW, because you don’t overpay for bullpen talent based on the idea that you need help now hoping for results in the distant future.
USG
Its not just his lefty splits
He would cost way too much to get. He is a young, under control arm that the Indians have plans for, which means they would want at a minimum something similar in return.
So, are you willing to give up Daniel Bard or Casey Kelly or someone on that prospect level to get Masterson?
Yes? No?
Masterson is better off learning by starting for the Indians and the Sox picking him up in 3 or 4 years when he is a FA.
Remember the Sox didnt just give Masterson away, they got Vmart.
However I do agree Masterson’s best days are ahead of him. For me I see him getting shelled while in Cleveland and then being reborn as a bullpen arm in say 5 or so years.
We gave up Hagadone too.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
I'd say he was even the core of that trade.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jun 1, 2010 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I always thought that was the way the trade was presented
but since nobody knew who hagadone was, they ignored that.
You are sayng that Nick Hagadone
was the reason the Indians traded Vmart? Really. The 25 year old, MLB arm, wasnt the main part of the trade on the Indians side?
I would put a lot of money that Theo and the Indians FO do not agree with your opinion.
Nick Hagadone was what AA at the time of the trade?
BC
Masterson was in the majors and having limited success. I highly doubt he was a throwaway for the Indians.
Does anyone have an article or quote from Theo or the Indians FO stating they wanted Hagadone more and he was the reason for the trade, or are you guys just pulling this out of nowhere?
Obviously not, because no quotes like that ever come out.
But Masterson was a fringe MLB arm at the time. Hagadone was a first round pick big lefty throwing 97 MPH. The only reason he wasn’t one of the top 2 or 3 prospects in our system was because of the TJ surgery, which it seems has worked flawlessly.
Basically, a #1 potential starter in A+ is worth more to most teams than the back-end MLB starter in Masterson. He’s a piece, but not the main piece.
USG
Yup.
Masterson was absurdly overvalued by many Sox fans based solely on a few excellent innings of relief in the playoffs. I remember a lot of Buch v. Masterson debates where the Masterson side focused on him being “playoff tested” and “knowing how to win” and all that garbage. When it comes down to it, the guy is a solid bullpen arm on a contending team but thats about it.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
To be fair
There were also a lot of question marks surrounding Buchholz. The Sox management seemed to view bringing Buchholz up as an option of last resort, even though he basically reached the limit of what he could do at AAA. Between that and the concerns that his psychological issues would prevent him succeeding in Boston—which did not seem to be an issue with Masterson—there was a sentiment that Buchholz could at least fetch a better return. I have to admit that I wasn’t entirely unswayed by that argument. (It wasn’t an issue of Masterson being “playoff tested,” just that he seemed unfazed by the challenges of playing in Boston, where as until now Buchholz was not.)
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
I think they were both important pieces
but Hagadone was the one with the higher potential. Masterson has never been that great or looked like he would be that great. Just because Ben’s saying that Hagadone was the core doesn’t mean that the other pieces are just throw-ins
Masterson's value was versatility, not potential.
It was also a strong reason for being with Boston: he was their long reliever/emergency starter, in addition to being a reasonably reliable bullpen guy. He’s never going to anchor a rotation, but he might be a good 4/5 guy.
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
Masterson is not the answer.
Too many walks
Can’t get lefties out
Seen as a starter in Cleveland (so, expensive)
USG
I WOULD want Justin back
…but not at any price the Indians were likely to ask. In a sunk season, you might as well give Masterson the starts for the rest of the season in the hopes that he can figure things out and be a valuable piece next year.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
This
Ben will attest that I HATED to see Justin go- seemed like a nice guy, induced ground ball outs (the stats may say something completely different, but to the naked eye, lots of ground balls), and with the current defensive upgrade would seem to benefit more than most of the staff. The timing of this isn’t the best considering V-Mart’s great night tonight.
However, the only thing that would make me want to go and reacquire Masterson is if it came at next-to-nothing cost- say a one-for-one involving “AAAA” player like the recently departed Van Every, or as they’re referred to around here, a “dirty”-Joe Nelson, the recently DFA’d Schoenweis (probably still spelling it wrong), Atchinson, etc. As Ben and Bloggy point out, Cleveland wouldn’t take our trash for him.
Masterson made sense at the time because he cost virtually nothing to plug the long-relief/spot starter hole by coming up in the farm system. Sooner or later, another pitcher from our system is going to be knocking on the door should we need the bullpen help or a spot starter. By signing Lackey, Wakefield effectively fills Masterson’s niche.
I’m just thankful that over the past few weeks we’ve seen less and less of the bullpen as our starters have been able to go deeper into games.
by Christopher B on Jun 2, 2010 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Nope
Stats like his groundballness quite a bit too. Which will probably make him a good pitcher someday. Which is why he won’t be cheap. Etc, etc, etc.
USG
He will be a good free-agent acquisition someday
But I agree with the above posters—he probably wouldn’t be worth the price in trade to grab back from the Indians.
On the other hand, there’s still take in CLE of sending him back to the bullpen, so we’ll see what happens. And, also on the plus side, he certainly has no problems handling playing in Boston, so that’s not something the Sox higher-ups will have to worry about.
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
I miss Monsterson
But he’s not our solution to anything. You can’t afford to carry a ROOGY in the bullpen with those splits.
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