Lackey, Red Sox Pounded by Rays, Swept in Series
by Randy Booth on Apr 19, 2010 9:57 PM EDT
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PrintIt doesn't get much uglier than this.
John Lackey was pounded for 8 runs in 3.1 innings of work as the Sox fell 8-2 on Patriot's Day. The game was the Sox's 5th loss in a row and, obviously, a sweep for the Rays.
Let's just find the positives, shall we?
- Scott Atchison is the man. He went 2.2 in relief of Lackey and allowed just ONE hit, NO runs and struck out TWO. Can you say, "closer"? OK, don't, but he filled a huge gap for the Sox today.
- Jeremy Hermida hit a two-run home run. Offense? That is all.
- Ramon Ramirez went two innings and allowed just two hits. Way to go, RamRam! That ERA sits at a pretty 6.43 now.
- Ummm.
The (long) season continues Tuesday against the Rangers. Maybe the West will bring some victories.
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We got punked
We used to own Tampa Bay. Remember the good old days when we beat them like a drum? Pedro had a no hitter going into the 9th after hitting Gerald Williams in the first inning. The DRays tried to hit us every inning, and they were thrown out by the umps every inning as the benches cleared.
Ever since they changed their name to the Rays the tide seems to have changed. We like to talk about Yankee dominance over the years due to their payroll. Now we have a Yankee-like payroll and are getting punked by a team with a payroll less than our starting pitching. Were we good because Manny and Ortiz were juiced? The Rays take bases on us at will. They out hit us and out pitch us. Our current roster has no chemistry. I don’t like half the players on our team. It is painful to watch this team. I guess it could be worse, we could me the Mets. The only team that gets less production than we do for the money. I’m depressed. Now I know what it feels like to live in Baltimore.
and the rays have done it
w/out kazmir…
by brian custer on Apr 19, 2010 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Kazmir stinks
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Apr 19, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, we don't have a Yankee-like payroll. We have about half of theirs.
Remember those 5 contracts over two years they spent three-quarters of a Billion dollars on? We’re not very close to that. Last year, even the Detroit Tigers had a bigger payroll than us. We were third in just the AL.
I’m concerned, but it’s way too early to throw in the towel. This could turn around starting this week. We have TEX, BAL, TOR, and BAL again.
Half? Noooo.
191
vs
168
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Apr 19, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Bah,
191
196
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Apr 19, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Altho Cot's has different #'s
168 vs 213.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Apr 19, 2010 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Well the Tigers reeeeeealy wanted
Jose Valverde. So you can’t blame them for spending lots of loot.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Apr 19, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Standings
Actually only two teams have worse records in the majors.
Morada Mudshark
by Morada Mudshark on Apr 19, 2010 10:28 PM EDT reply actions
Go Lars!
…Needed a bit of positivity in here
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Apr 19, 2010 10:30 PM EDT reply actions
Red Sox and Cubs
$309,606,333 payroll
9-17 record
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
Oh god, the cubs have a better record than us?
That’s it, season over.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Apr 19, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
believe your eyes
this team has no offense, and little attitude (outside Pedroia and Youk)
giant explosion needed
cut Ortiz
trade Bucholtz for a bat (preferably outfielder)
play Victor Martinez at DH, and let Varitek call the game
sit Beltre, and play Lowell (much better bat)
Beltre gets himself out; swings at everything; only a fool throws a strike to that guy, and I doubt it will change
Cameron is not much better; total dud
JD Drew has drifted into one of his periodic catatonic states; not sure what can be done about that
unless GM gives this team an emphatic shake-up, and soon, the ship be sinking
If they do what you want things will get worse
13 games—quite a few with two-thirds of the starting OF on shelf—is not long enough to assess the team. Almost no one on the team is hitting.
Over the past week, only two regulars have hit well or how they should: Pedroia (.420 wOBA) and Scutaro (.341 wOBA). Papi, everyone’s favorite scapegoat, has hit better than Youk—and has struck out less. Five regulars, plus Bill Hall who has had to play, have wOBAs under .300 for the week.
Over the past week, Beltre has walked more than Pedroia and struck out less. In fact, Beltre has the second-lowest K-rate among the regulars so far this year, behind VMart.
Buchholz is too important to the Sox to trade—especially for an OF. The Sox’ system is stocked with OF who are a couple of years away. Also, there’s a good chance Buchholz will be better than Lackey by year’s end. Lackey has not been impressive thus far.
It’s hard to assess Cameron because he has been in and out of the line-up.
Drew has been very good in the past, and is playing hurt right now because the Sox need him with Ellsbury’s and Cameron’s injuries.
You don’t shake up your team after 13 games—especially when the whole team hasn’t played together for over a week. Good organizations don’t panic in mid-April.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Apr 20, 2010 7:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I just disagree
I appreciate your tone, which is civil. And I think your arguments are reasonable.
I just do not see it.
I saw Beltre, in the clutch, repeatedly swinging wildly at balls around his ankles. The guy can hit a ball over the plate, I suspect, but he swings at everything. The problem is his head, and it is serious.
Cameron shows the same lack of judgment.
The vibe I get from those guys is failure, over all.
Ortiz I love. But he’s done. He hasn’t looked right for 2 years.
You might be right about Bucholtz. But I worry about his head. I am not sure he has the focus and calm needed to thrive.
by Frank Malzone on Apr 20, 2010 7:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Cameron
I’m no kidney stone expert, but I’d say a couple of those would definitely mess up my concentration.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
You're just incorrect about Beltre
I understand where the impression is from, because he does swing at good pitches. He is also good, however, at making good contact on bad pitches. He has been one of the only consistent hitters on the Sox right now, he’s one of the few that isn’t a problem.
He has one of the lowest k rates so far on the team.
His offense has improved with more outs on the board and he’s hit best with 2 outs and RISP (though it is too early to really make any kind of judgement there).
Lowell has shown very little since coming back from hand surgery. We know that he won’t last a full year, we know he is not as mobile as he has been (and he’s never been anything but slow), and we haven’t seen any evidence he can field a ball outside of his arms reach. There’s no reason to believe he wouldn’t be a worse option for the team at this point in his career.
You’re welcome to disagree, but just realize that both my subjective analysis and the objective numbers disagree with you.
Varitek has proven he cannot hold up full time as a catcher. He is also no better than Martinez at the tings Martinez has struggled with.
Cameron, over his career, is a streaky hitter. You can’t judge someone like that based on a few games when he has proven over his career that he can consistently get almost exactly the same numbers. Plus the whole pain thing.
The problem the team has is everyone is slumping all at once. It happened at one point last year, and hopefully they’ll start to snap out soon and will keep from all messing up at once.
Beltre is posting a .298 wOBA
Thats even worse than his 2009 wOBA of .305. He is batting .295 which is nice but he has 1 Walk in 46 PA. Thats 2.2% Walks. Thats simply horrible. Sofar Beltre has been a disappointment.
by German Red Sox Fan on Apr 20, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
However, Beltre has been a slow starter through most of his career.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Apr 20, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
and Lowell's is .299
with a 0% walk rate. They’re both much too small of sample sizes to judge, but Beltre is just a better choice than Lowell.
April is only half over. I don’t understand how someone can be a disappointment based on 8% of a season. That’s not just about Beltre and to you, that’s just frustration with everyone on the internet about all of the Sox.
I have never argued that Beltre should be replaced by Lowell
But you said :
He has been one of the only consistent hitters on the Sox right now, he’s one of the few that isn’t a problem.
And thats ihmo just wrong. A wOBA of .298 is simply horrendous. And I said sofar he has been a disappointment, I dont see whats wrong with that. I actually think he will be fine over the season but to argue he has been good sofar is just wrong.
by German Red Sox Fan on Apr 20, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Be calm,
Victor Martinez has a 258 wOBA. The team has just stunk. I know you know all of this, but just saying-13 games is 13 games.
That said-have you ever seen a player who seems to have a swing less well tailored for Fenway than Beltre? I recall just before the season started we had a discussion about if his numbers would be boosted by Fenway. Some of us argued that his power numbers would not-as he is a real spray hitter. Others argued that he would hit 30+ hrs. Watching him play every day, I have to say that I am even more pessimistic of a “Fenway” boost than I was before; I think I have seen him pull the ball a handful of times only. He has a very long swing and mostly hits the ball to CF or RF.
well in comparison to the team
where Martinez, Ortiz, Drew, and Hall are all significantly lower that him, that’s not bad. Yes .298 is bad.
But the original argument I was responding to was that he should be replaced by Lowell. And that he swings at everything and no one will throw him a strike, when in fact, he has the lowest k % so far of any of our regulars apart from vmart and scutaro.
I just think it’s too early to say he’s been a disappointment. After game 1, if a player struck out twice and went 0/5, you could say that they’ve been a disappointment, but it’s ridiculous to do so.
Lackey no impressive?
He shut down the Yanks and KC when we needed it most, just because he had a bad game against the Rays doesn’t mean he hasn’t been impressive. I know I thought he could shut the Rays down yesterday but let’s not place the blame on him, the defense was downright horrible.
Why buy the cow, when you get the sex for free?
by return2greatness on Apr 20, 2010 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions
The game against the MFY was good
But he allowed 11 baserunners against Minnesota and only struck out 2. He was lucky to only allow 2 ER. There is a difference between performance and results.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Apr 20, 2010 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Still, its hard not to notice that against the Rays, 5 runs came in 1/3 of an inning
that should have been over, if not for a defensive screw up by our bench outfielders.
Agreed on Buchholz
I said this at the time, but I was very impressed how he pulled himself together in his last start after that disastrous 1st inning. In the past, his problems have been mostly mental/confidence. To see him put together a good outing after that was very encouraging. Hopefully, this is a good sign for the rest of the year.
And I’m not nearly as ready to give up on Ortiz as some on this site. The whole team is playing like ass, I see no reason to give up on Ortiz before Drew or anyone else.
I’m not ready to give up on the current team so quickly, but there can be no denying that what we’re seeing to date is very disturbing.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
I have a five-tool player in my pants.
ACTUALLY, advanced metrics show that that wasn't "premature".
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
Concur with this.
Patience.
Last year, we hit a similar stretch of team-wide suckage right smack in the middle of the season (which also, unfortunately, coincided with series’ against both the Rays and Yankees). That was also extremely frustrating as we could barely get a ball out of the infield against even crappy pitchers for a 3 week span. But we still ended up 3rd in scoring in the AL.
I’ll start to panic if the whole team continues to slump like this through the end of next week.
So many new posters...
Where are all the reasonable regulars? Seems like CHB has made a couple of accounts on sbnation.
by German Red Sox Fan on Apr 20, 2010 1:25 AM EDT reply actions
"Curly Haired Boyfriend"
Little nickname Carl Everett gave him that stuck.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
I have a five-tool player in my pants.
ACTUALLY, advanced metrics show that that wasn't "premature".
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
It's only...
13 games, keeping telling myself only 13 games. Personally I’d be willing to see what happens until Memorial Day, if the Sox are still crap by then do something to fix it. The most likely thing Theo is thinking is A-Gon but I honestly don’t know how I feel about that because it would mean move Youk to third and like DFA Beltre (not that’d I’d have a total problem with the latter at the moment).
Sodomize Intolerance
by sonicdeathmonkey on Apr 20, 2010 7:53 AM EDT reply actions
If they trade for Agon it would most likely mean Agon is the DH
not that i think they will do that but they dont DFA Beltre
by German Red Sox Fan on Apr 20, 2010 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Doubt it
Beltre would probably be included in the trade or moved to another club. But if A-Gon comes aboard, it’ll be him at 1st and Youk at 3rd. Gonzo is a plus defender at 1st, you don’t sit that on the bench. What the sox really need to do is find someone to take Lowell, no reason we should have two DH’s on our bench, we need another OF.
Why buy the cow, when you get the sex for free?
by return2greatness on Apr 20, 2010 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions
No one is going to trade for Beltre
An expensive player on a 1-year contract with Scott Boras as an agent. If the Sox make a trade, it’ll be with a non-contender/small market team. Those teams are going to want lots of young, cost-controlled players. Beltre, Lowell, etc. don’t fit their criteria.
The Westmoreland situation makes it less likely that the Sox will make a major trade this year. Who are they going to move? Buchholz is too important to the team right now (especially with high-priced pitchers like Beckett and Lackey), and its unlikely that the team would trade Kelly plus other prospects to get a player like Gonzalez, who they can just sign for money in a couple of years.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Apr 20, 2010 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions
plenty of teams would love to have Beltre on a one year deal
that isn’t incredibly expensive. Just contending teams. It wouldn’t be part of the deal that got us somebody else. I don’t know why I’m arguing this because Beltre is one of the last guys I’d want to see leave the team.
The Sox are unlikely to trade with a contender
As I said, if the Sox make a trade it’ll be with a non-contender/small market team.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Apr 20, 2010 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions
For a few of reasons
First, the Sox are unlikely to trade Beltre because they don’t have a ready replacement at 3B. I doubt they’d trade him in a 3B swap. But assuming they simply want to move him, who needs a 3B and has young players or prospects to trade for a one-year rental?
Of the AL contenders, only Tampa and Texas are stocked with propspects. Both already have 3Bs—and I can’t see the Sox trading in their division. Minnesota would be a possibility, but I can’t see them taking on Beltre’s money and they don’t really have many elite prospects.
In the NL, Colorado has the best system. But they have a 3B. None of the other contenders have enough in their systems to make a trade worthwile for the Sox.
Finally, it’s silly to talk about potential trades after 13 games. If Beltre continues to struggle, no one will want him and if he improves, the Sox won’t move him.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Apr 20, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
agreed that it's silly to talk about trades
but it’s sillier at this point to say the Sox would only trade with contending teams.
Off the top of my head, San Francisco could well contend, have talked about moving Sandoval to first, and DeRosa (who is having hamstring problems) may be less and less viable at 3rd as he ages. Cincinatti has Rolen at 3rd, who is a great player but probably won’t make it through the season. Either of those teams could contend, and there’s plenty more. You can’t just throw out teams because they don’t have the best system, every team has some chips.
But yes, I agree it’s ridiculous to talk about trading him.
But
Drugs is right:
“If Beltre continues to struggle, no one will want him and if he improves, the Sox won’t move him.”
That is the essential point-and that is why 1 year 10 million dollar rentals rarely get moved.
Speaking of the Giants
If they’re contending in June or July and are serious about moving Sandoval to first, I wonder about the chances of moving Lowell there. Especially if he proves his hips are better than DeRosa’s knees.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Apr 20, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
The worst part of playing stinky ball is all of the “I told you so” fans that appear out of nowhere.
+2
Welcome back, Buzzy. The regulars have been missed.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Apr 20, 2010 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions
What kinda of miserable excuse of a human being...
….starts up a blog account just to moan and complain and not show their face when “their” team is blasting in October?
"Hating the New York Yankees is as American as apple pie, unwed mothers and cheating on your income tax." -- Mike Royko
by sox-inda-south on Apr 20, 2010 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
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