Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Bracketology 2012: Duke Finally Steps Up To The No. 1 Line

Should the Red Sox Extend V-Mart's Lease?

Victor Martinez recently expressed a desire to stay with the Red Sox past the 2010 season. This shouldn't be a surprise to those who have followed Martinez. When he left the Indians last year, it was one of the more emotional departures from a club in recent memory. He was invested in the team, his teammates, the city, the fans—Victor Martinez is no mercenary, and he wants to find another home like he had in Cleveland. Based on comments he made to Michael Silverman of the Boston Herald recently, it seems like he would be happy to have Boston be that place.

 

After last year, when Martinez hit .336/.405/.507 following his midseason trade to the Red Sox, most fans of the team would be just as happy to have him here. Unfortunately, we can't look at that line in a vacuum and assume resigning Martinez will mean many more years of a .900 OPS catcher. There are concerns that have to be taken into account when considering a contract extension for both sides.

Star-divide

A Catcher, or a Designated Hitter?

The most commonly cited concern when talking about big catcher contracts now-a-days is how long the player will be able to remain behind the plate. When reports claimed inaccurately that Joe Mauer had signed a new megadeal, Twins fans were understandably ecstatic, but still the nagging question remained: How many years would they be paying for a catcher, and how many years would they be paying for a DH? Once considered something of a hack behind the plate, Martinez has improved the last few years as a defensive catcher as far as blocking balls, calling a game, and fielding bunts are concerned. But catching is a tremendously difficult job: it places a great deal of stress on the knees, and they get banged up by fouls, wild pitches, and long swings all the time. It takes a pretty durable guy to manage to catch for a full season. Is Victor Martinez that guy?

 

There isn't much evidence against him. While some would say "where there's smoke, there's fire" based on all the reports of scouts wondering if he'll be able to stick at catcher, a lot of that smoke about Martinez moving from behind the plate to first remains from the days where Martinez lacked the catching tools he has developed of late. Looking back, there's not much reason to think that Martinez can't catch over 100 games a year. He did so in 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007, managing his usual high offensive numbers in each of those seasons. And while his 2009 splits showed he was much better offensively while playing first, that seems to be more the result of a small sample size than anything else, since other years have shown either even splits between first and catcher, or splits heavily in favor of his offense when catching. With no consistency in the numbers, it is far more likely that where he plays simply isn't a factor in his offense.

 

But even if where Martinez plays is an issue, or becomes one, is that a deal breaker? If Victor were to move to first or DH for a significant portion of the season, would it be so bad? There's no doubt that exchanging playing time at catcher (the most valuable position) for playing time at 1B/DH (the least) is a big difference. But even if Martinez were to switch positions, he could presumably still act as the backup catcher. Assuming he maintains his offensive production (I'm using a .370 wOBA) and catches only 40 games a year, splitting the rest of the time between 1B and DH, Martinez should still end up being close to a 3 WAR player towards the end of his contract, which would put him around $12 million in value using Fangraphs' valuations. Given how much he'll be worth at the beginning of the contract, accepting what could be a slightly overpaid season at the end of his tenure won't seem so bad.

 

The Price Tag

 

But just how slightly overpaid are we talking, here? The biggest name catcher to base a contract around would be Joe Mauer, whenever he signs. Martinez would undoubtedly cost less than Mauer by a fair bit, given Mauer's reputation as a top defensive catcher and his ridiculous 2009 MVP campaign. A better comparison would perhaps be Jorge Posada. While Posada's numbers aren't as consistent as Martinez', they average out to around the same. The Yankees signed him to a 4-year, $52 million contract at 36-years old—quite a bit older than Martinez will be should the Sox extend him this year or resign him after the season—but this is a Yankees contract, and Martinez does not appear to be interested in making the most money he possibly can. A conservative estimate would be a $60 million over 4 years, while he best we could hope for would probably be $39 million over 3 years.

 

At $13 million a year, Martinez would almost certainly turn out to be a great value over the course of his contract. At $15 million, things start to get a lot closer, but either way it's unlikely that any extension will be one of those contracts the team will come to regret later like Lowell's. But will it get done? It's hard to say. Silverman suggests that the Sox might be reluctant to commit to a catcher until Mauer gets sewn up long term, and if that takes too long to get done, Martinez has stated he won't talk about an extension once the season has begun. On the other hand, the Sox have been reluctant to get involved in bidding wars since the Mark Teixeira fiasco, and Mauer would invariably be a bidding war (even if the Yankees don't get involved, I would be surprised if the Mets did not). And they are even more reluctant to give out incredibly long deals. All things considered, I would be surprised if the Sox let Mauer's availability be a factor in anything other than negotiations.

 

A Matter of Time and Timing

 

For the Sox, though, a few million dollars in annual salary isn't likely to matter nearly as much as how long they're paying him for.. Before the Lowell signing, the Red Sox weren't fans of signing guys past a certain point. Since their fears proved to be largely correct, they can only be more cautious. But Martinez isn't looking for a short-term commitment.

"I came to the place where a lot of players dream to come and a lot of players wish to play here in Boston. So I'm here, I do really want to stay here and hopefully end my career in Boston."

 

If that means he wants a 5 or 6 year deal and no trade protection, then we can probably put a lid on the extension talks right now. The front office is all about flexibility when it comes to free agents, and even 4 years could be stretching it. This is not a group that will say "Well, it's just one year". Theo sets limits, and then sticks to them. If the line he draws in the sand isn't good enough for Martinez, then he could end up going the way of Bay.

No matter how many years and how many millions of dollars, it seems unlikely that any reasonable Victor Martinez deal will turn out to be anything worse than a small overpay, even if he ends up being a back-up catcher/DH for the majority of it. While some might want to see Martinez catch a full season with the Sox before locking him up, they also have to consider the risk of what a tremendous Martinez season would do to negotiations. Maybe he keeps up his 2nd half performance from last year, and all-of-a-sudden the Sox are staring down a marquee free agent who can not only demand more money, but a 5th year! Perhaps even Martinez can be swayed by the almighty dollar if he starts hearing big offers from desperate teams. As much as Sox fans may want to talk about Exposito, or Wagner, or Federowicz, the catching position for the Red Sox is still a huge question mark without Martinez. And one that will not easily be filled if they let him walk.

Risk Management

During the last offseason, Theo Epstein employed a plan of "low-risk, high-reward", signing reclamation project pitchers to small contracts in hopes they would return to their formerly dominant forms. It didn't work out, no, but it was still a fundamentally solid plan. Victor Martinez represents a different kind of low-risk, high-reward player. He will carry an 8-digit salary, yes. But there's little risk of him significantly underperforming that salary, and the potential reward is locking up a top-hitting catcher through 2014. When the risk of waiting until after 2011 is of a possible return to the dismal catching situation the Sox were in just a year ago, the stakes are too high. The Red Sox have less than 2 months left to extend Victor Martinez before they are just another name in the pack. Best get started in a hurry.

Comment 64 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

good stuff

It’ll be interesting to see how management reacts to his comments regarding his reluctancy to negoiate mid-season. With it becoming increasingly clear that Mauer and Minnesota share a common interest in remaining together, I’m curious as to how Epstein approaches the situation…

I think given Martinez’s obvious desire to stay in Boston, Epstein will use Spring Training to find out Victor’s price, if it’s one that Theo feels comfortable with, he maaaay act on it — but I have a feeling that he waits it out.

by Logan Lietz on Feb 16, 2010 3:15 AM EST reply actions  

It comes down to the price

I think Epstein really likes Victor and would love to sign him back. The biggest concern is if he can play catcher for a full season and we won’t know that until the season has already begun.

If Epstein can get a price for a 1B with those numbers instead of a Catcher, then he will sign him.

by drabidea on Feb 16, 2010 9:23 AM EST reply actions  

I love Martinez, I think he's a great player

even if he ends up being a DH/backup catcher. But yeah, It all comes down to money. I feel like he is a great deal up to $13 million/year at this point for not more than 4 years, but I don’t feel like he’s the type of player who would get handed out a $15 million/year contract unless it’s a year or two.

by wolf9309 on Feb 16, 2010 9:44 AM EST reply actions  

I think at this point $13m is too much

$13m is too much for a DH, even Big Papi only signed for 13m/yr and he was arguably the best full time DH of all time.

by drabidea on Feb 16, 2010 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Ortiz couldn't play catcher EVER.

You’d be surprised how much value 40 games at catcher is worth.

USG

by Ben Buchanan on Feb 16, 2010 10:52 AM EST up reply actions  

That is true

I think if Theo goes in with the assumption he is going to be a back up catcher and back up 1B and full time DH he will be valued correctly.

by drabidea on Feb 16, 2010 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

However

I do wonder precisely what VMart’s true value level is. Catcher defense is not an easy think to value properly, and as much as some don’t trust things like UZR for position players, at this stage there isn’t really a UZR for catchers at all. By all subjective measures VMart is a horrible defensive catcher, and his arm is gone at this stage post injury. His value is all in his bat at catcher and he has an injury history playing a position with a very short shelf life. I think he is probably a decent fielding 1b but as a DH or 1b is is not really so valuable at all. I like him, and I view him as a real short-term asset, but somehow I can’t picture him on the team for too much longer.

by Buzzy on Feb 16, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

disagree

with:

By all subjective measures VMart is a horrible defensive catcher

He’s been the primary catcher for two CY winners within the last 3 years. He has caught for both really good pitching staffs as well as (Cleveland, first half last year) really bad. He has as much legitimacy in terms of defensive results as any Catcher.

I really dislike any real emphasis placed on throwing out runners when evaluating catchers. That is such a tiny part of what they do (how many events does that entail in a typical game? 1 or 2 ?) compared to everything else. What is far more important is how well they work with the pitchers, how well they frame the pitch, how well they stop wild pitches, how well they block the plate and (totally under rated by most) how well they field pop-ups and dribblers. THOSE are the things that a catcher actually spends far more time doing.

Further, so much depends on the pitcher when it comes to throwing out runners. I don’t want to give VMart and Tek completely free passes – but the Red Sox blatantly do NOT try to hold runners. This is clearly a part of their pitching philosophy. It is simply not fair to put all or even most of the blame on the catchers. Ivan Rodriguez would have a hard time throwing out runners if catching for this staff!

Take away the ‘throwing out runners’ bit and you find that Victor is a fine defensive catcher.

And he is one of the top two or three offensive catchers in the game. He is going to be really hard to replace if we don’t retain him.

I see zero problem with VMart as our everyday C for the next 3 years. Easily 120 games plus, each season.

by mmmmm on Feb 16, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

to be fair

in 2008 he only caught 55 games and both Sabatthia and Lee have proved dominant with other catchers.

Otherwise I agree with all of your points.

by wolf9309 on Feb 16, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

2008 was the injury year. Players have them.

Even last year, when he caught ‘only’ 85 games – because of phasing in his replacement in Cle and because of Varitek here – he still played 155 games overall! With no signs of ‘wearing down’.

He has over his career shown no tendencies to wear down in the second half of seasons – in multiple years he did BETTER offensively in the second half.

The point of Lee and CC is that VMart is clearly not a hindrance to great pitching.

And he’s already established that he’s comfortable and competent catching Wakefield, of all people – that’s something Varitek never seemed to like doing. That means that when you go to your ‘spot starter’ because of a top-5 injury – in theory decreasing your defense, you don’t have to also take a hit on your offense because you can leave your #1 catcher in.

Even while Varitek was still at least somewhat helpful with his bat, whenever Wakefield pitched we had to put the automatic out that was Mirabelli in.

by mmmmm on Feb 16, 2010 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

well right, that's not a knock on him

I’m just saying that it’s not entirely accurate to say he was Lee’s primary catcher during his cy young year.

by wolf9309 on Feb 16, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

It is also not accurate

to totally poo-poo throwing ability. You can quantify (approximately) the value of a SB and the negative value of a caught stealing. It is not negligible. I agree that the Sox pitching and defensive structure is not built around paying much attention to base stealing, but a catcher who can through well is valuable.

by Buzzy on Feb 16, 2010 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

well, i don't want to say it has NO value

but i think it is seriously OVER valued by most. I’d be willing to bet it has a very low correlation with winning.

by mmmmm on Feb 18, 2010 1:18 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree with you there

I see so many people use it as a sole method of judging a catcher, and while it is important it is a very small part of what they do. I think it’s very hard to quantitatively judge a catcher’s ability. A lot of what I use in my mental process is pitcher’s reactions. for example:
some pitchers (Burnett) don’t like pitching to Posada- in my mind that is a strike against him as a defensive catcher (for game-calling at least
some pitchers (Beckett) don’t like throwing to cather’s besides Varitek- in my mind that gets him a point as a defensive catcher.

Those also don’t judge a catcher’s defensive ability alone, but my point is just that there is a lot more than just throwing ability that should be taken into consideration.

by wolf9309 on Feb 18, 2010 9:43 AM EST up reply actions  

John Dewan, Bill James

and my eyes and just about all baseball analysts disagree with you.

http://actasports.com/sow.php?id=235

by Buzzy on Feb 16, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Well I can't argue with that.

Because there’s nothing there to disagree with. Just an unsupported “notoriously bad” swipe.

Show me something compelling besides hearsay.

by mmmmm on Feb 16, 2010 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Dude

that’s my point-that is why I said “Subjectively.” I have no real way to quantify his defense other than when I watch he has bad technique (overall footwork, framing pitches, blocking balls in the dirt, and throwing among those skills). Is this a problem? Who knows, but he has a rep as a bad defender and I do think somehow catcher defense, even though I can’t quantify it, is important.

I feel that catcher defense is a final frontier of baseball ignorance. I certainly have no good idea what the overall impact of VMart’s (likely) bad defense is. I hope the Sox have a good way to judge-if VMart cant catch or if his catcher defense value partly decreases has bat vale (which is very high for a catcher) then he might not be woth keeping around, especially given his age/injury history.

by Buzzy on Feb 16, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly.

And I would also note that the way the Red Sox handle base runners as a team is a clue to me that they do not place a high value on stolen base prevention.

by mmmmm on Feb 18, 2010 1:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Again, I think the people who call him notoriously bad are those who saw him in '04 and '05 and labeled him a Montero or Max Ramirez type.

Martinez improved his defensive abilities fairly dramatically over the last 3 years. He’s no Johnny Bench, but he can block balls and isn’t stone-handed like he used to be. He is, as the article says, “notoriously” and not empirically bad.

USG

by Ben Buchanan on Feb 16, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

the point of the initial post was

“I do wonder precisely what VMart’s true value level is.” I then said he is considered a bad defensive catcher even though I don’t really know in a way that makes me confortable. It is importnant, no? I have seen no use of a quantitative metric by anyone here to say he is not a bad defender. If all we can go on is scouting, I think he still would be considered a bad defender. I think this obviously factors into his value. I am sure the Sox will figure that in by whatever criteria they use.

by Buzzy on Feb 16, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't say he's a good defender. Just that it's not enough to significantly hurt his value.

Here’s an interesting if imperfect metric. It not surprisingly puts Martinez pretty far down the list, but at only a cost of 2.2 runs, and that’s even with SB/CS being heavily factored in against a catcher who has a staff with no interest in cutting down baserunners.

USG

by Ben Buchanan on Feb 16, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

We can also go with pitcher preferences to gain an insight.

For instance, while Beckett was comfortable with Varitek because of his experience with him, Buchholz, who had no allegiances, actively preferred pitching to Martinez. One of the greatest compliments a pitcher can pay a catcher defensively is to request him as a personal catcher. Whatever it is Martinez is doing behind the plate, it seems unlikely that he’s doing an objectively poor job of it.

USG

by Ben Buchanan on Feb 16, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

interesting list

Posada really sucks! [no surprise…]

by Buzzy on Feb 16, 2010 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

interesting article

I notice that George Kotteras took the -3 hit at WP because he caught Wakefield a lot.

Varitek avoided Wake and posted a +5 in that category while, despite catching Wake (and not having any passed balls during that) VMart managed a 0.7 – staying in positive territory.

Obviously all of that has to be taken with a huge grain of salt for reasons the article discusses. But very interesting anyway.

by mmmmm on Feb 18, 2010 1:32 AM EST up reply actions  

The more I think about it

if we can get him for $13m/yr we should do it. Even if he can’t play C he will be an average 1B defensively. He should put up about 30-35 RAR which is worth more then $13m.

by drabidea on Feb 16, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I think $13 million is the border of too much

which is why i’m saying upper limit. But he DOES provide more value than just a straight DH if he can be a backup 1B and backup catcher. Very good bat and would really the the Sox a lot of options of who to keep on the bench.

by wolf9309 on Feb 16, 2010 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes

and it would be nice to see someone come up through the pipe in a couple few years that he could pass the torch to.

Sign him, if they don’t someone else most certainly will.

by wdogg72 on Feb 16, 2010 12:06 PM EST reply actions  

Sign him.

VMart is a perfectly fine defensive catcher. I have no doubt he can catch 120 games, easy.

He is an elite offensive catcher. He is so far above replacement level it is not funny.

If we don’t retain him, it will be a huge gap and we will have an extremely hard time replacing him.

Scarcity is on his side. MLB is just wicked shy of good hitting catchers.

by mmmmm on Feb 16, 2010 1:55 PM EST reply actions  

replacement

exactly….where else are they going to find a catcher (whether part time or not) that is going to post his numbers.

not to mention the guy is a pro and he is clutch late in the season.

by wdogg72 on Feb 16, 2010 3:05 PM EST up reply actions  

sign him

he’s about as good as fisk was

he just needs to pass the physicals.

catching can be hazardous to your career.

by Mick Lowe on Feb 16, 2010 8:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think Maur is leaving the Twins, and if he does I don’t think the Sox should pay as much as he’d command on the open market. Is the difference between VMart and Maur worth 10 million a year? I don’t think so. Also, I don’t really buy the see how he catches a full season argument. He’s already caught full seasons with the Indians. They should extend him to a reasonable 4 year deal at ~13mil if then can. If he wants more, it will have to be dealt with after the season.

If I recall the Sox don’t give out NTCs, but can anyone confirm this?

by brogshan on Feb 16, 2010 2:08 PM EST reply actions  

I think the difference between Mauer and VMart is worth more then 10m

Mauer is only 26 was worth 8 WAR last season and is a VERY good defensive catcher.

VMart is 31 was worth 5 WAR last season and no one knows if he can be a full time catcher anymore.

by drabidea on Feb 16, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Mauer is worth $30 million if he performs like he did last year.

Not saying he’ll get paid that way, but just ability wise…

USG

by Ben Buchanan on Feb 16, 2010 4:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok yes

But how much benefit does that really give the Sox? The team is good enough that the $10 can be spent elseware.

by brogshan on Feb 16, 2010 10:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm just saying that the difference IS more than 10 million.

Not saying we should get him, just that that explains why V-Mart could be worth 13-15 while Mauer could potentially sign for between 20 and 25.

USG

by Ben Buchanan on Feb 16, 2010 11:30 PM EST up reply actions  

As I said in the other thread

Whats the rush? Its not like we’re getting a discount if we sign him now. He’s gonna want full market rate.

Id rather get an extra year of data on him and see how he fits, how his defense at catcher looks full time and if he can stay healthy.

We’re gonna have to pay the man either way, so might as well wait. 33% chance the situation ends up dictating our decision (injury, suckiness, etc…). If not, we can much more accurately can gauge his value to us and how our team looks going forward.

Worst case he has a monster year and we have to add 10-15% on top of what he wants now. Its worth taking that chance considering the question marks we have about him (durability, catcher defence, health, how he hits as a full time catcher, etc…).

I also wouldnt sign him before Mauer signs…. just in case.

by alskor on Feb 16, 2010 2:32 PM EST reply actions  

Let him walk

Time isn’t our friend with Martinez. He’ll be 32 when he hits free agency so any deal is going to involve him aging into his mid-30s. I doubt he can stay at his current level long enough to make it worth it. The instant he loses catching viability, he becomes a liability on the team as a limited, aging hitter. And he only saw ~100 more innings at catcher than first base last year.

Even with the scarcity at catcher, I just don’t see an investment in Victor Martinez to be a good idea at this point in his career.

by eriatarka on Feb 16, 2010 2:36 PM EST reply actions  

Yup

If he’s not at least a half time catcher for us I don’t want him. He’ll just be another Lowell style drag in a couple years who doesnt fit anywhere defensively.

Im fine with taking two draft picks and letting him walk if it comes to it. Im optimistic he can catch for us for the next 3-4 years though, so I do think and hope we’ll re-sign him.

by alskor on Feb 16, 2010 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I sort of agree

as much as I like him, he is entering prime “sucking as a catcher” years. He is not worth a whole lot at 1b (as I argued before we traded for him). If he can’t catch, he is of little value to the Sox. It is risky to pay a catcher $$ when he is past prime, and VMart is already past catching prime.

by Buzzy on Feb 16, 2010 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Keep in mind that Martinez only became a catcher during his time in the Indians' farm system.

His legs/knees aren’t as worn out as long-term catchers are. He used to be a third baseman/shortstop.

USG

by Ben Buchanan on Feb 16, 2010 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I see JD Drew as a good comparison.

It would not surprise me if the Sox went to 5 years, $14 million or so. That might not do it, but then I’m not sure he’d get much more in free agency, considering the down economy and the Yankees’ probably lack of interest (they have Montero and/or Mauer).

Martinez’s catching skills seem excellent to me, in terms of calling games. He’s an elite offensive catcher, and one with better power than Joe Mauer every year except last (and 2008 when he was injured).

We have lingered in the chambers of the sea /
By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown /
Till human voices wake us, and we drown.

by 0157H7 on Feb 16, 2010 2:54 PM EST reply actions  

Except Mauer just turned 26

You can’t expect many players to show that much power before that age especially when they have the physical strain of catching everyday.

Mauer will be similar power numbers from now on.

by drabidea on Feb 16, 2010 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

except VMart actually has only a little bit more wear on his knees

And arguably less than Mauer.

VMart didn’t start playing Catcher until the minors.

VMart has logged 233 minor league and 717 MLB games at catcher – 950 professional games across 10 seasons.

Mauer has logged 207 minor league and 607 MLB games at catcher – 814 professional games across 8 seasons.

That’s a difference of just 136 games – and VMart’s work was spread out over a longer period of time.

So VMart has only logged one full season worth of games more than Mauer at C.

I’m not going to suggest VMart is worth anywhere near what Mauer is. But people are predicting his decline rather quickly for no good reason.

by mmmmm on Feb 18, 2010 1:52 AM EST up reply actions  

5 years, $14 million

Would be an overpay, I think. If Theo put that on the table right now, Martinez would sign in a heartbeat.

by Schulz on Feb 16, 2010 8:14 PM EST up reply actions  

How about a front-loaded deal?

~4 years, ~$50 million? That way, his hit against the cap isn’t too heavy in future years—while still being movable in later years.

by lone1c on Feb 16, 2010 3:17 PM EST reply actions  

My understanding is

The salary cap takes into account the average annual value of the deal, so a backloaded or frontloaded deal will not save you from it if you plan around it like that.

by Sologub on Feb 16, 2010 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes

but you could frontload to make it more palatable to move him to other teams (who mostly don’t care about the CBT hit).

You can use also the Beltre trick and add on a cheap player option year as an effective “buy out,” spreading the AAV over another year.

by alskor on Feb 16, 2010 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

salary cap or not...

The best two ideas on this post has been the player option and the front loaded deal. I think V-Mart at that point would become much like Lowell is now. He can still hit the ball, but is slowly becoming a defensive liability. With that said, I believe he is far better than Lowell.

I would not mind a 3 year contract with say two player option tagged on with the money being front loaded: 14 million year 1, 12 million year 2, 10 million year 3, then the options at quite a bit less money.

Would no trade clause even matter at this point? He would be 10/5 right?

"Hating the New York Yankees is as American as apple pie, unwed mothers and cheating on your income tax." -- Mike Royko

by sox-inda-south on Feb 16, 2010 5:14 PM EST up reply actions  

He'd only have the NTC

for the last year of a five year deal

by brogshan on Feb 16, 2010 10:23 PM EST up reply actions  

The CBT is getting up there with the "bridge year" as this year's BS buzz word.

It’s just not that big a deal. It’s obviously better to be under it, but at the moment, it’s effectively less than a 1% tax on the payroll.

USG

by Ben Buchanan on Feb 16, 2010 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Decent catcher

As a catcher myself, though admittedly at a much lower level I have always studied the position, and the first thing I watch in any game is how the catchers play. With regard to some of the greats, Bench, Munson,and Fisk in my era, Vmart is below average. For todays market, the Sox are lucky to have him… he is a decent catcher with experience that can hit. Sign him to a 3 year deal with mutual options for two more. The Twins are going to mortgage the farm to keep Mauer, and if that is not enough the only team with the bucks to close the deal are the Yankees….. the RED Sox are not going to get him. Unless McCann or Weiters mysteriously come available…. V-Mart is going to be the Man either sign him now or lose him.

by NJ Native on Feb 16, 2010 4:14 PM EST reply actions  

A good stick

V-Mart is a great asset and should be part of the team’s plan to compete to seek another championship.

by BostonFaninNewMexico on Feb 17, 2010 5:55 AM EST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Over the Monster, an SB Nation community that delivers news and analysis while encouraging discussion regarding everything Boston Red Sox. OTM was founded Feb. 22, 2005.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Jddrew_small
OTM Fantasy Baseball-post 2

Recent FanPosts

School-of-adventure_print_small
Carl Crawford's offensive woes.
Small
Pedroia vs Cano
I_want_to_believe_small
Dwight Evans = Hall of Famer
School-of-adventure_print_small
What might have been continued: 2010-2011 offseason
Small
The Red Sox and the luxury tax
Silence_small
Alfredo Aceves and Red Sox agree at $1.2 million
Danny_and_shuttle_small
Matt Garza Is Fair Compensation For Theo Epstein
School-of-adventure_print_small
What might have been: A revisionist look to the 2009-2010 offseason.
School-of-adventure_print_small
Dustin Moseley
Old-patriots-logo_small
Free Agent SPs Not Named Oswalt, Jackson

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Managers

Red_seat_small Ben Buchanan

Twitter_eb_2_small Marc Normandin

Authors

Lowrie__1234972975_0178-1_small lone1c

Jddrew_small gizmosandy

Pedoria1_small Mattsullivan

Baghead-1_small Matthew Kory

Photo__2__small BrendanOToole

Cee_small Cee Angi