Carl Crawford Signs With Red Sox
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 9:23 AM EST
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Print(Moving this back up top, in case anyone missed it.)
According to a tweet from Peter Abraham, the Red Sox have signed Carl Crawford to a 7-year, $142 million deal. Ken Rosenthal has confirmed the report.
I'm almost as shocked by the stealth with which this was accomplished as by the figures of the signing itself. Even the very quiet John Lackey deal was caught when he came to town for a physical. Just earlier today, at least one source was reporting that Crawford was almost guaranteed to sign with the Angels, and Theo was saying the Sox weren't close on anything.
Crawford, 29, brings his fantastic glove to the Red Sox' outfield while packing a good contact bat and speed that combined for a .851 OPS last year. The biggest issue for Crawford comes against lefties, who held him to a line of just .256/.312/.384. C.C. Sabathia and Cliff Lee have been particularly difficult for Crawford to solve, though he's seen marked improvements against Sabathia and has fared well against Andy Pettitte these past two years.
One of the biggest questions surrounding Crawford will be his willingness to play center field. With Fenway's left field being cramped as it is, Crawford could stand to lose much of his value by playing in front of the Monster. In years past, he has reacted negatively to any attempt to move him to center, though $20 million could change that in a hurry.
A Type-A free agent, Crawford will cost the Red Sox their first round draft pick. This might make the team less reluctant to make moves on other Type-A free agents like Scott Downs.
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I'm so angry right now!
What a complete waist of money!
Twitter | "Almost every organization has a guy like Papelbon or Lester" - Dave Cameron 12/29/2005
he has a waist made of money?
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 8, 2010 11:46 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Well.. yeah he does
Ms. Perfect spelling.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
He certainly does now, anyway...
That’s going to be a lot of money in 2017, unless – of course – the Martian Imperial Overlord-Bucks to Dollars exchange rate tanks.
"Laser show. So relax."
"For the Patriots [playing the Jets], it was like fighting Piston Honda knowing that every time he raises an eyebrow, he's about to throw a jab."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 9, 2010 12:18 AM EST up reply actions
True
If we make it beyond 2012 that is.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Bwahahahaha!
Sorry, dude. Had to rec that comment. She takes a lot of grief…good to see her get in a shot. :P
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
Yep
I got burn’d! lol
Twitter | "Almost every organization has a guy like Papelbon or Lester" - Dave Cameron 12/29/2005
This feels like the Yankees right now...
And I love it.
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"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson
I have had the pleasure
of watching him in Tampa for the last 3 years. He is a hell of a player. Certainly the Rays best player in 2010. A good guy to boot.
I am not sure he makes great sense in Boston, and this feels like too much money for him. But then again it isn’t my money.
Augh. Huge overpay.
Crawford will give us a couple great years. Then his speed decays and suddenly we have a low-OBP left fielder making $20 million a year. Also, LHPs are going to love the middle of our order.
I hope to God they somehow managed to convince Crawford to play center or something.
by Tarrsk on Dec 8, 2010 11:46 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Agreed on Center
Not sure why everyone’s sure Crawford’s speed will decay, though. Fast guys actually tend to stay reasonably fast.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 8, 2010 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
At least, for most of the years we have him signed for.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 8, 2010 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
This is something I am unclear about
the idea of “young player skills” and “old player skills” comes from Bill James. My understanding is that a high batting average, stolen bases and other “young player skills” are typically highest in young players, hence the name. The “old player skills” are skills that develop more over time and are more prevalent among older players. So if a player has young player skills, we should assume that he can off set their decline somewhat by improvements in his old player skills, no? I don’t think that James meant that he found that players who had young player skills would fade faster that players with old player skills. In fact I think he meant the opposites. Can someone clear this up?
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by Mattsullivan on Dec 8, 2010 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
OK, here we go:
Old player skills are power and discipline. These, generally, are something you can develop over time. Particularly discipline.
Young player skills are speed, contact, etc. These tend to be something you come into the league with.
Young player skills diminish just as old player skills do, if not necessarily at quite the same place.
As an old skills player diminishes, however, he cannot grow faster, while a young skills player has an opportunity to learn, and even to add power if they’re willing to sacrifice some more of their speed.
So in the end, you have an old guy who no longer has pitchers throwing outside the zone and can’t make use of his talents, vs. a slower but still quick player who can make the guy pay when he puts it in the zone, even if just through singles and doubles, and can take a walk when needed.
In short, yeah, what you said.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 8, 2010 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks
I feel those terms get thrown around a lot and used to mean different things based on the context.
- Matt Sullivan
"I would change policy, bring back natural grass and nickel beer. Baseball is the belly-button of our society. Straighten out baseball, and you straighten out the rest of the world." Bill "Spaceman" Lee
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by Mattsullivan on Dec 9, 2010 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly who I thought of when reading this...
… though, one would have to admit he showed more power earlier in his career too. Still, for this money, I’m perfectly fine with 7 years for Crawford.
True
I more was thinking that even though he lost a step in those first few years in CIN, he still was a quick, solid defender who could punish pitchers.
Hopefully Crawford avoids the injury bug that hit Griffey though.
Getting him OUT of the Trop
is probably a step towards avoiding injury.
I think the example James famously used was George Brett IIRC
He was a very different player by the end of his career, but he remained remarkably the same in overall value.
and get more patient.
AND he only needs to be a 4 win player to be worth $20m. Guaranteed he’s worth more than that for next few years. Great deal.
yeah, I'm not worried about the price
but I want him to be a better OBP guy. And I’m very much worried about our lefty splits in the OF right now.
Theo’s work is not yet done.
I want more OBP and more power out of Crawfish.
I’m seriously in shock right now but very excited.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 8, 2010 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
LHPs a problem for this year only.
Last year for Papi and Drew. This is a long term move. 7 years long! Plus maybe Ellsbury is trade bait now.
I agree. But it IS a problem this year, nevertheless.
And it needs to be solved. I have faith it CAN be solved.
Trade Ellsbury & Scutaro to the Mets for Beltran.
Beltran would be a perfect final piece to this puzzle.
by mmmmm on Dec 9, 2010 12:26 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
was just thinking that, although not sure if he can play full time in CF… LF? I wouldn’t mind that trade.
For the love of god, can we get a QB and a new HC?
by return2greatness on Dec 9, 2010 9:34 AM EST up reply actions
looks like we had to give up jason werth kindv money to get it done
stifles laugh
but seriously, great news.
I wonder if we're moving into Yankees "Eff the money" territory.
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Felt like it last year, too, with Lackey.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 8, 2010 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, Crawford feels like the "Lackey" of this year.
But then you toss in Gonzo and it requires a double take.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
I don't like Crawford's 7/142 but I'm fine with Adrian's 8/160.
Crawford needs to:
a) gain more power
b) be more patient
c) agree to play CF
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
That makes some sense given Crawford's range in spacious RF but what about his arm?
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
Drew's arm would be wasted in LF.
Plus at this point Drew knows and plays Fenway’s RF so well, I just can’t see Crawford possibly squeezing any better defense out of it.
Just remember – Crawford’s defensive range will pay off big in LF when we go to MFY stadium.
What are you smoking?
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2010 12:43 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Its pretty good - but who cares?
Arm doesnt have THAT big an effect. In a huge RF I’d rather have Crawford’s speed and range. Guarantee he makes up the difference in arms 5 times over.
Much rather have Drew's moderate speed, intelligence and rifle in right.
Crawford’s speed in center, and Ells’s bad reads in left.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2010 12:47 AM EST up reply actions
I agree.
Who cares? I do.
It does matter. Not as much as some people claim, but arm strength definitely matters in RF.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 12:49 AM EST up reply actions
compared to ... what?
Compared to some average RF? Sure.
But Drew is not an average defensive RF. He continues to be one of the best defensive RF in the game.
Crawford is faster at this point, sure. But his marginal advantage in range is going to be small compared to Drew. And Drew already has so much experience in that field and, yes, Drew has a fantastic cannon of an arm that DOES have an impact on the game. I seriously doubt Crawford would turn in a greater boost over Drew in RF than he would over Ellsbury in LF.
Drew's defensive play and arm
are the reason I am not wanting him tossed from the team. Whether his batting stats are great or not, his defensive play is very good.
Certainly seems that way
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Eh.
We had ~ $ 39MM coming off this year, and ~ $ 48MM coming off next year. Not personally-crazy about the value maybe, but we’re not going hogwild in terms of out average annual salary.
"Laser show. So relax."
"For the Patriots [playing the Jets], it was like fighting Piston Honda knowing that every time he raises an eyebrow, he's about to throw a jab."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 8, 2010 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
Wow. I really never thought he would go anywhere but Anaheim.
Amazing offseason for the Sox. Now let’s get some relief pitching.
by The Herndon Kid on Dec 8, 2010 11:48 PM EST via mobile reply actions
i bet the redsox said
“hey if we can get him for around the same total as jason werth, lets just do it”
Maybe the GMs decided before the Winter Meetings that overpay = dick size
I don’t know, I’m just completely flabbergasted by this. Admitedly, sort of in a good way (unlike those 6 hours of “O NOES GONZO DEAL IS DEAD” horror), but still. What the fuck is going on?
by Tarrsk on Dec 8, 2010 11:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think this is one of those periods of market shifts.
All started by AJ’s 18 million, I maintain.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 8, 2010 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
ben, i read at around 3:00 pm thr on mlb rumors
that downs would cost us a second round draft pick. the sports writer wrote this was due to using our #1 on crawdaddy. he also mentioned that we would still keep our 19th pick from detroit for vmart
these are both correct
you don’t lose the compensatory picks you get for letting agents go. You lose your original first rounder for the first Type A you sign, and your original second rounder for the second.
Basically....
Minus the Sox’s 24ish first and second rounders (Crawford, Downs); Plus the Tigers’ 19th first rounder (VMart – best unprotected available, btw) and the – let’s say – Angels’ 15thish second rounder (Beltre – which would be a first rounder, but they sucked too much at baseball in 2010); Plus two sandwich picks (three if Felipe Lopez signs).
"Laser show. So relax."
"For the Patriots [playing the Jets], it was like fighting Piston Honda knowing that every time he raises an eyebrow, he's about to throw a jab."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 9, 2010 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
Beltre Pick will certainly turn into a 3rd rounder if he signs with the Angels because they'll also sign Soriano who's ranked higher
/stupid Elias Ranking!
Twitter | "Almost every organization has a guy like Papelbon or Lester" - Dave Cameron 12/29/2005
Doesn't this just get us up to about $158M so far, though?
We still have about 12M before we hit the 170M budget.
Not quite MFY money.
[Ben will correct me if my numbers are way off, of course.]
That's about right from what I've seen.
In fact, I thought we were about 150 mil, but that’s if you use Gonzalez’s 6.5 mil salary for this year rather than his projected AAV.
By the way...
I think this means now Maggs and Beltran….
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*no
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by Jared Stegall on Dec 8, 2010 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
No, not now I assume.
But I still think we’ll get a decent RHH for the OF. Too many awful splits.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 8, 2010 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
For the record...
I would have liked Matt Diaz now…
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by Jared Stegall on Dec 8, 2010 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
I'll continue to pass on Matt Diaz.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 8, 2010 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
yeah he's not good, but he's serviceable,
costs the league minimum, doesn’t cost a prospect ABs, and won’t get many at bats. And seems to get along well with the team. Might as well keep him. If there’s a significant loss, probably Kalish comes up before McDonald gets regular at bats.
For the record
I would love to see Ellsbury traded now.
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Yes please.
I would be remotely sanguine about this deal if Crawford is replacing Ellsbury in the lineup. Even moreso if he takes his position in the field as well.
by Tarrsk on Dec 8, 2010 11:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
This + Crawford, stop being a little girl, and agree to play CF.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
youre not my father!!
thats..thats impossible!!!
Why thank you
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 8, 2010 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
Do the neighbors always stare like that?
It feels a little dirty becoming the things we’ve hated the most for like the last century.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
I still want a salary cap.
Wow, I’m amazed that held up after hitting the “quarter billion offseason” mark.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 8, 2010 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think the salary cap system really works. The last thing that I would want is for “expiring contracts” to become a commodity in baseball. All that leads to is trading Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown.
There’s no way that you can force the Pirates to field a competitive team and invest in winning, rather than maximize their profits. What a salary cap does is prevent big market teams from having the flexibility to make aggressive deals (like the ones you’ve been making).
The revenues for New York/Boston/L.A. etc. are so different than the revenues in some of the small market cities that total parity and fairness is an exercise in futility. The league, the players, and the business of the game is much better served by letting the free market dictate the finances instead of relying on heavy handed control being mandated from above.
Questions or thoughts? Email me at duggan2423(at)gmail(dot)com
The league, the players, and the business
But not the game from a game standpoint.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
I thnk enhanced revenue sharing is the answer, not a cap.
I moved off of liking salary caps after watching multiple NBA teams write off multiple seasons just to get under the cap to chase LeBron. I could see a team punting a whole season and fielding a crap roster and get Pujols. Is that any better for the game?
by The Herndon Kid on Dec 9, 2010 12:12 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
don't be too quick to judge a salary cap based on the NBA
The NBA has a ‘soft’ cap, not a hard cap. Another issue with the NBA and its lack of parity is the fact that because an NBA roster is so small a single player represents a tremendous swing in talent.
A better model would be the NFL which has a harder cap, a better rev sharing model and no guaranteed contracts. It also has a larger roster. The result is much better competitive balance. Yet it still rewards well run organizations over those run by idiots.
MLB could benefit from a competitive balance model closer to what the NFL has. That said, I don’t believe we’ll see that in our lifetime.
NF works in large part because of the shared TV deal
I don’t see how that would work in baseball.
by The Herndon Kid on Dec 9, 2010 12:23 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Really, I always have and always will prefer a salary floor...
I think a salary floor is actually the best option to make the game more competitive. It would get smaller teams that hoard their revenue sharing profits into the bidding for some of these free agents.
by irish_celtic_fan on Dec 9, 2010 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
Time for a deep, stentorian...
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
by Tarrsk on Dec 8, 2010 11:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It's so... sleek...
Who does your evil decorating?
"Laser show. So relax."
"For the Patriots [playing the Jets], it was like fighting Piston Honda knowing that every time he raises an eyebrow, he's about to throw a jab."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 9, 2010 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
Turtle Wax products I hear.
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Hence the shine.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
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AWAY WITH YOU!
@#$%in’ buzzkill…….
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
12.6 WAR for Crawford over the last two seasons.
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I love this
Thank You Mr. Theo Epstein… lets go get Russell Martin!
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by Jared Stegall on Dec 8, 2010 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
You'll have a payroll of $300 million in 2012
And we’ll be right back at it.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 8, 2010 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
Now...
Which jersey shirt do I get?
A-Gon or Crawford?
Decisions, Decisions….
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And so they pay for themselves.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 8, 2010 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
Gonzo, definitely.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 8, 2010 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
At least you wont have to replace either one in 2 years.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
I will just post my Facebook post I made on my phone that I posted after looking at Twitter when I went to bed.
What the fuck!!!!! Red Sox sign Carl Crawford!?!?!?? What?!?!??
I love Lester, Pedroia, and Gonzo!!! ITS MAN LOVE!
Ninth biggest contract in baseball history...
Not to mention highest paid outfielder
I wondered if Theo was hinting at the “We can make a big move just a phone call away” comment earlier today.
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Uh, I'm torn I guess.
I didn’t really want him, but for that money… damn…
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
Same.
He’ll be fun as well to watch, though.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
I'm completely floored...
… I was totally against this… another lefty in the line up. But then reading the post above that Drew and Ortiz come out of the line up after next year (unless Big Papi has a monster 2011, and then I’m fine with him coming back in 2012)…
But thinking about 7 years /$126 million versus 7 years/$142 million for Crawford… why not?? Younger, faster, better defense and offense, and only $16 million more over 7 years? You’ve got to be kidding me.
Can we sign Cliff Lee now? Since money seems not to be an object, I’m just saying…
So Boston fans,
Braves fan here, and we need an outfielder.
Does this make Ellsbury available? What would it take?
"That guy mvhsbball is really an insufferable schmuck." - FuquaManuel
Probably more like Cameron.
And we’ll take Vargas.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 8, 2010 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
We literally have no player in the minor or major leagues with the last name of Vargas…
"That guy mvhsbball is really an insufferable schmuck." - FuquaManuel
by Scott Coleman on Dec 9, 2010 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
Who the fuck am I thinking of then.
I swear to god I’m going senile at 20
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2010 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
lol
I’m 21 and I’m right there with you.
I have no clue…Teheran is a top-5 prospect, but he’s not going anywhere. Randall Delgado is a top-25 prospect, but I doubt the Braves are looking to trade him either.
"That guy mvhsbball is really an insufferable schmuck." - FuquaManuel
by Scott Coleman on Dec 9, 2010 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
Venters
Or a similar relief pitcher, that’s who I was thinking of.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2010 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
Too many stats.
Makes ya crazy…numbers all swimmin’ around in your head like.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
What? You want to field 3 lefties across the OF?
Do you want to ever beat the Yankees?
A decent reliever and a backup RHH if you have one.
Honestly, not much I imagine.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
Realistically, though, we'd shop him and someone would bid higher than that, so...
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, and Frank Wren said today that McLouth was going to be given every chance to start in center field, so a deal isn’t likely. This seems awfully stupid, but whatever.
"That guy mvhsbball is really an insufferable schmuck." - FuquaManuel
by Scott Coleman on Dec 9, 2010 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think he makes-or-breaks at this point.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
yeah its allready pretty amazing
but a catcher and some relief pitching makes it almost perfect.
And they had issues signing Gonzo!
Haha, atleast we now know it has to defiantly be them avoiding luxury tax!
I love Lester, Pedroia, and Gonzo!!! ITS MAN LOVE!
I think we are still safely under
though that room will shrink rapidly as they sign relievers.
Interesting but relatively useless fact:
“Crawford will become the first position player without a 20 homer season on his resume to sign a nine-figure contract.”
-MLBTR
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
That should change
have you seen his numbers at Fenway?
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2010 12:11 AM EST up reply actions
Will check in a sec...
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
Not particularly good.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
.708 career OPS
Gnarly.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
Oh damn
I thought they were ridiculous, I swear to god I’m going crazy.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2010 12:15 AM EST up reply actions
I believe you were thinking of Mr. Ordonez
who absolutley crushes in Fenway.
Sigh …
Ummmm I guess I can accet this deal
Its not the 8/160 I thought he would get.
Plus it keeps him from going to the Yankees.
I want the freakin Division
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by Jared Stegall on Dec 9, 2010 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
Wild Card is clearly not enough.
With a rebel yell, I want more, more, mooooaaaar.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
Just you wait
We’re gonna get ridiculously injured again and finish fourth!
I think I’m doing this wrong.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:07 AM EST up reply actions
Keep expectations low, that way we'll surprise 'em when we win
WHAT AM I TALKING ABOUT WE JUST SIGNED CARL EFFING CRAWFORD
Congrats on ruining baseball, Yankees!
"That guy mvhsbball is really an insufferable schmuck." - FuquaManuel
by Scott Coleman on Dec 9, 2010 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
So, how long until Mazz tells us we shouldn't buy tickets because we didn't sign Cliff Lee?
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Give Him
About until the end of Spring Training…and I’m being nice.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
The way we're going
I wouldn’t be surprised if we did sign Lee.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2010 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
I can see the headline now
Red Sox Literally Say “Fuck it,” Sign Cliff Lee
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:15 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Rest of league takes ball, goes home
“Screw you guys” says anonymous AL team official.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2010 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
Steinbrenner bows head and proclaims: "What can we say, they got us."
In other news, The NY Yankees have been sold to Frank McCourt, expected to be owned jointly with new girlfriend.
“There’s no way I could see this possibly going wrong!’ said McCourt at a press conference.
by irish_celtic_fan on Dec 9, 2010 12:27 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
LOL
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 12:18 AM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't be surprised by anything at this point.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
My last wish is for someone crazy like the Nats to sign Lee for 7 years and the MFY go cry.
I love Lester, Pedroia, and Gonzo!!! ITS MAN LOVE!
As a DC resident, nothing would make me happier than to see that happen.
Screws the Yankees and gives the Nats a ridiculous rotation in 2012.
by The Herndon Kid on Dec 9, 2010 12:17 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think it is more likely the Angels...
… they thought they had Crawford, missed him and might just take a swing for the fences to land Lee as a consolation prize. Sounds like Lee is going to the highest bidder, so that might just do it…
I can hope, right??
So true
@samtpage: The Red Sox are going to be paying $20+M to Kenny Lofton for four years and then Rajai Davis for 3.
Twitter | "Almost every organization has a guy like Papelbon or Lester" - Dave Cameron 12/29/2005
More likely they're paying Kenny Lofton for seven years.
Starts out around 7 WAR, trails to 5, and ends up at 3-4 for two years.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:12 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The question is, are they paying Kenny Lofton to play Fenway's LF?
Where the WAR will only be that high thanks to UZR adjusting.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
huh?
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 12:42 AM EST up reply actions
UZR adjusts for Fenway now.
So it can boost a player’s value artificially, I believe. He’ll be that good for any typical team, but not for the Sox.
Not sure about that, though.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:46 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I heard about that with Bay's UZR changing last year.
What do you mean by “but not for the Sox”??
Like he’ll be considered even better cuz of the inflated UZR?
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 12:50 AM EST up reply actions
Because I'm not sure if it extrapolates based on chances taken away by the wall.
Basically, the average Fenway left fielder will have fewer real opportunities is what’s keeping the value down. My question is, does UZR say “Well, he should have had so many opportunities” or does it say “OK, just forget these wall balls, you’re going to have to live with the result.”
If the former, than his actual worth to the Red Sox would be lower than the resulting stat.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:54 AM EST up reply actions
Okay. Thanks Ben.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 1:03 AM EST up reply actions
well, on the positive side of all that
He should give back some of that lost value when the Red Sox play in Yankee Stadium.
I dont get the math.
1 ALDS, 2 ALCS, 2 WS.
So 86.
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 9, 2010 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
But Werth is also older.
Which is why that deal looks crazier than this.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
Wait please tell me you aren't serious?
I perfected Werth all things considered before the offseason started. After that contract he got, there is no DOUBT the Sox got the better deal.
+1
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, Please.
We’ll expect delivery in early March …
+1
LOL
For the love of god, can we get a QB and a new HC?
by return2greatness on Dec 9, 2010 9:40 AM EST up reply actions
I can't believe
There’s a single person who would prefer Werth given the contracts they received.
Yeah, I'd prefer Werth
But only based on, y’know, what the expectations were.
What the hell, Rizzo?
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
Not to rehash an old argument
But the Nats had to give one more year than anyone else to be sure they got him. This is similar to the overpaying the Sox did foramnybor the Tigers did for Pudge in order to establish credibility with free agents and jump start their teams.
At the end of the day, the Lerners have more money than God and have decided to do whatever they can to improve the team now that it has rebuilt the farm system that was absolutely destroyed under MLB ownership. As someone who goes to 15-20 games a year, I am happy with that.
Rather than focusing on the specifics of the deal, I am focusing more on the fact that the Nats are now spending money and are looking to grow their local market, which is only behind NY and LA for median income.
by The Herndon Kid on Dec 9, 2010 12:55 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
As a Nats fan (as my NL team), I would have preferred Crawford
But I don’t think he was ever going anywhere but to Sox, Yanks, or Angels.
by The Herndon Kid on Dec 9, 2010 1:07 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Seriously
I strongly preferred Werth over Crawford. But with that contract? Nats can have ’im.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
+1
Out of the gate, would rather have has Werth – much rather Crawford and his contract than Werth and his, though…
"Laser show. So relax."
"For the Patriots [playing the Jets], it was like fighting Piston Honda knowing that every time he raises an eyebrow, he's about to throw a jab."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 9, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
This pretty much sums up what a lot of us feel.
Werth for shorter years would have been a perfect match (RH, more power).
But if we have to have someone for long years, Crawford is a much better deal – younger, better defense, more overall value.
Tingley Feeling
As if I got kicked in the junk. A bit longer than I expected and at a bit more money as well.
My question: will they wait until next season to announce the deal due to luxury tax issues and/or will this affect negotiations with Gonzo?
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
They will wait till opening day
a la Beckett. That way his AAV won’t coun’t agains the luxury tax this year. As far as the tax is concerned he’ll make 6.5 this year, and roughly 22 every year after that.
crawford
How can getting Crawford be a bad thing. No one can question Henrys commitment to the team now. With one or two good relivers and Boston is clearly the best team in baseball.
It depends
Are the Sox on a budget anymore? If so, it can be a bad thing.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
And by "a budget" I mean "a non-Yankees budget"
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
They still need to address the lefty split issue.
This loads them up even more with lefties.
C.C. Sabathia is drooling right now.
The only time CC isn't drooling is when he's eating.
Couldn’t help myself.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:18 AM EST up reply actions
I don't get this lefties problem.
We’ll have 5 lefties in the lineup, 4 righties/switch hitters. You should have a lefty heavy lineup anyway, since most pitchers are righties.
It seems like
four of the five hitters 3-7 will be lefties:
L Ells
R Pedroia
L Crawford
L Gonzo
R Youk
L Ortiz
L Drew
R Salty
R Scoot/Lowrie
We will mash against righties, not so much against CC, Lee, Price, etc. I would imagine that Cam starts against all those guys, and we also find another RHH.
Ortiz is particularly terrible against LHP. Maybe we do Lowrie at 3B, Youk at first, Gonzo DH, and sit Papi on those days.
so that's basically swapping Ortiz' bat v LHP with the other half of Scoot/Lowrie v LHP
Not inspiring.
To be clear, imho, Lowrie should be starting, so by that we are talking about replacing Ortiz’ v LHP split with Scutaro’s v LHP split. The latter IS better than Ortiz was last year, but well below what Ortiz was for the rest of his career.
If you insert Cam in for Ells, what about sliding Ells to the DH slot? I know I’ve beat up on him a lot, but his career LHP split is better than Scutaro’s and he provides more total offense because of his baserunning.
Leave Gonzo at 1B & Youk at 3B.
The net effect is to replace Ortiz with Cam v LHP.
Oh, and you also need to replace Salty with ’Tek v LHP (though if we get Martin, that part of the equation changes as well).
fair point
This all leads me back to my belief that we need another RH bat, though.
there's a much better way to set up the lineup
against lefties:
L Crawford
R Pedroia
L Gonzo
R Youk
L Ortiz
R Cameron
S Lowrie
S Salty
L Ellsbury
That’s a real nice lefty/righty split. Although I hope, and expect even that they’ll sign the righty Russell Martin
I would be beyond shocked if Tito used so different a lineup against LHPs vs RHPs
Hasn’t done it yet in his time in Boston. Few switches at the bottom. He likes guys to get comfortable in one spot – and to be fair, guys do seem to respond to that.
Well in my mind
the only way this is much different than against righties is that Drew is benched in favor of cameron. Against righties it would be pretty much the same, with a good left right split.
Ah... well, in that case
I’m 90% sure Tito will lead off Ellsbury, and Crawford hates to lead off (as does Pedroia).
I thought you were replying with a vs LHP version of the lineup above…
I like this lineup a lot better, period
but apparently Crawford hates batting lead-off.
sigh …
Crawford is really really horrible against LHP
like below .700 OPS bad. So dont let him bat leadoff against lefties
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 10, 2010 3:43 AM EST up reply actions
eh, good to have some consistency in the lineup.
I would say that Lowrie should leadoff against lefties, but I think I have to see at least the first few weeks of the season before I douse his head in sacred oils and wash his feet with my hair.
I Feel Dirty
I’ll feel great every time we face the Yankees, but like a mean, entitled rich kid when we play everyone else.
Random Twitter
With the addition of Gonzalez/Crawford, the Boston bullpen will be the first in history to blow a 150 run lead in the 9th inning.
You’re not done Mr. Epstein.
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by Rogue Nine on Dec 9, 2010 12:11 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
LOL
This is too funny.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
That genuinely had me laughing out loud...
Son of a bitch, but that’s just priceless.
Yup, still need bullpen help and I’d like a reliable, possibly even just defensive – thanks to our sudden offense, Catcher to round the team out. I’d love to see Salty develop, but the Rangers waited forever and didn’t see it happening…
No we aren't.
We don’t go out and sign every high priced FA out there.
We traded 3 of our top prospects for a top player. Something the Yankees rarely do.
We are working our way up to the Yankees, but aren’t even really close yet.
We are STILL going to probably come in WELL UNDER the MFY budget this year.
Not even close – unless we sign Lee …
THAT'S not happening
Texas or NYY, that’s it.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
This thinking is bothersome, and way off.
The Yankees are a crippled, aging machine, who every year must hope to way overpay aging players to make up for their lack of a farm system. They’re falling apart with each year A-Rod gets older, the Jeter contract will kill them, especially since the 4th year is a player option. Their rotation seemingly has no future at all unless they sell off all their resources for Lee and Greinke, and make themselves even worse long-term. It really is happy days.
On the other hand, the Red Sox have a great farm system, and their big league team is still largely built on it: youk, pedroia, bard, papelbon, lester, buchholz, ellsbury, lowrie… and I really hope it stays this way, or else then they really will be the Yankees, and we won’t be happy anymore.
Agreed.
Put Ellsbury in left and hope for a good season out of him.
His value is too low to trade him right now.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
True, but it very much can happen during ST.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
No.
Crawford in LF
Cameron in CF
Drew in RF
Trade Ellsbury for bullpen help.
That’s our best defensive outfield right now.
Trading Ells for BP help
Is a great idea…except, like Frederick above, I feel his value is a bit low right now. If during ST he shows he’s healthy, then certainly do it then no question.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
I definitely do not agree with this "trade Ells" plan.
We need all the long-term outfield help we can get, so trading our young cheap center fielder and starting our 38 year old, especially for a set-up guy…. plus the combo of Ells and Crawford is redundant, but insanely awesome.
yeah if we trade Ells
then even after acquiring Crawford, next year we STILL have to get 2 OFs somewhere. No good. Would LOVE it if Crawford would play center, but I kind of assume, based on the fact that Crawford is the second player this offseason to not get crazy more money than anyone thought, that they already discussed position and where in the lineup he’ll generally batting in negotiations.
Kalish?
Then we would need one OF
For the love of god, can we get a QB and a new HC?
by return2greatness on Dec 9, 2010 9:43 AM EST up reply actions
No promise Kalish would be ready.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
yeah exactly
the point is I don’t want ANYONE in that FA class. So if we have one spot to fill, I hope, but don’t know, Kalish will be able to take it. If we have two openings, we’ll almost certainly have to get some FA
If we just need one more year to get Kalish
(& perhaps a recovered Westy by then?) ready for the bigs, don’t you think Theo & Tito might be able to talk Drew into staying on for one more year?
yeah, he’d be 36, but probably still effective enough to ‘bridge’ that last position one more year.
it's possible
but we’ll have to see how effective he is this year and whether he had any interest in doing it first. Doesn’t sound like something to depend on.
My bottom line, I have to admit, is 'win now'.
Yes, future control over Ells is nice. It has value.
But if we could trade that value (perhaps combined with other expendable assets) for enough bullpen help or a RH hitter of consequence to improve our chance of winning a title this year, then I would gladly give up 2-3 future years of Ellsbury.
I generally agree
except that I think the “now” is more than a one year window. I think this team is built for a 3 year window of “win now”
I think it's gonna take more than one year
to get Westy ready for the bigs. Remember, he was only in Salem last year before the surgery.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Official Baker of Red Sox Nation
Che-Hsuan Lin says Helllllo!
Twitter | "Almost every organization has a guy like Papelbon or Lester" - Dave Cameron 12/29/2005
Tell Lin he needs to actually hit the ball
He won’t get that number of walks in the bigs.
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Official Baker of Red Sox Nation
Lowell actually
Twitter | "Almost every organization has a guy like Papelbon or Lester" - Dave Cameron 12/29/2005
Cammy full-time is a decently big risk.
Luckily, the ribs/ab problems last year weren’t really cuz of age.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
It was a hernia and kidney stones.
I’m surprised he came back at all.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2010 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
The thinking in Tampa
was he didn’t have the arm for right. Having said that, I see 40 games a year in Tampa and I didn’t think his arm was too bad.
It never made much sense for him to play center in Tampa. BJ Upton can fly.
I cannot believe Boston would sign him without dealing with the center field issue.
Quick!
The possibility of Ellsbury being traded? A BIG yes. Now to where and for what? Go! Go! Go!
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
His value is prob too low but maybe some team will offer something nice.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 12:18 AM EST up reply actions
Like I said above :-)
During ST it’s possible certainly. I agree: I don’t see anything now, but based upon his health by ST and his past performance, it could happen during ST.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
Ells is in LF and Cammy is our 4th OFer switching off with Drew.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
Wow
Crawford has been my favorite player for years. The thought of him with the Yankees terrified me and to an extent same with the Angels. I love this… Can’t wait for my Crawford Jersey.
For the record, Ells for Beltran now looks remarkably appealing.
That’d solve a lot of that LHP problems.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:22 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Not that that was ever tossed around.
Just, y’know, I want Beltran.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:22 AM EST up reply actions
Man-Crush much?
There’s a Fleece Johnson joke here, but I’ll refrain. ;-)
Sorry Ben, couldn’t resist taking a jab. :-)
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
At this rate we'll probably get Beltran for minor leaguers and make Ells & Cam our 4th & 5th OFers
We’re bringing a bazooka to a knife fight. Just video game moves at this point.
That seems more the kind of thing we could've used with last year's injuries.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:47 AM EST up reply actions
NFL Blitz on N64, baby.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 12:51 AM EST up reply actions
I want Soto.
Welcome to my world.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
Ells for BP help man
Ells for Heath Bell and a prospect, hmm?
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
BP help is more available in FA.
I really think we’re getting Scott Downs now that the Type-A thing’s out of the way. 2nd rounders just aren’t as sexy.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah
But Theo & Co. certainly don’t want to lose too many draft picks, so I assume. Especially in a loaded 2011 draft.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
Don't forget V-Mart and Beltre's picks...
That’s four additional high picks… We can spare a second rounder, methinks.
by irish_celtic_fan on Dec 9, 2010 12:32 AM EST up reply actions
Good thing is that this signing reduces our chances of settling for a 2nd or 3rd rounder from Beltre
Since it’s significantly less likely now that any one team will get Beltre and a higher-ranked Type A. Before, it seemed plausible that the Angels might sign both Crawford and Beltre (and there was some wacky speculation they might go for Lee in addition to that).
dude, great point.
this is evil. (nah not really)
I could be wrong
but I believe Beltre was ranked higher than Crawford, so if the Angels were to sign both, we would get the first-rounder, and TB would get the second.
Oddly enough, Werth was ranked higher than both of them, IIRC
We're now guaranteed the Tigers top pick as well
From VMart. Unless they sign Lee (which I haven’t heard any rumors about at all). But they were in on Crawford and Werth at one time, and that would have dropped our pick.
That point cannot be underplayed.
No reason NOT to sign Downs now.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
"You take a team with twenty-five assholes and I'll show you a pennant. I'll show you the New York Yankees." - Bill "Spaceman" Lee
by Lloyd Christmas on Dec 9, 2010 2:03 AM EST up reply actions
+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Just in case I wasn’t clear …
I was thinking the same thing.
Beltran brings the righty bat, Cameron off the bench/insurance if Beltran breaks down.
If NYM eats enough salary, freakin’ do it!
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
What's our OF against LHPs going to be at this point?
Crawford – Cameron – Drew would be my guess, but McDonald is a righty and Nava is a switch hitter if we put them in for JD or CC. I think Ells is going to be gone.
Something tells me our OF is still being formed at this point, however.
Agreed
Not actually as bad as we look vs. LHP either. Cameron, Youk, and Lowrie are all very good against southpaws. Gonzo’s splits evened out last year. Pedroia typically pretty even. It’ll just be one-or-two weaknesses.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
If Crawford plays LF
He’ll basically stroll to every ball, while Ellsbury will continue messing up reads and diving all over the place. They need to switch spots, no joke
Crawford can help cover some of Ells' weaknesses reading balls.
It’s not like he has to stay entirely in LF
But yeah, much better in Center.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:28 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe he can be convinced to switch for that amount of money!
What is best in life? To crush the Yankees, see them driven before you,
and to hear the lamentations of their fans! - Conan the Bostonian
Doubles into Singles...
That’s what Crawford does in left. Think about the number of wallball doubles that should now be held to singles…
by irish_celtic_fan on Dec 9, 2010 12:32 AM EST up reply actions
How is he gonna do that?
his arm is rather meeeh
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 9, 2010 3:12 AM EST up reply actions
Ells isn't so good at calling off fielders
So if Crawford is compensating for Ells and Ells isn’t paying attention to him, I see collisions.
Speedy, expensive collisions.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
we'll call him our left-center fielder
Ells can be our rightish-center fielder. And Drew can stay in right.
Red Sox to debut new "triangle" outfield formation.
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Because You Asked...
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
On a Light Note
He got this contract, cause he’s FAAAAAST!
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
Ken Jeong is a GOD
I love Community, I love it even more because of him.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
FAST DUN'T LIEEEE
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
Great show.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:42 AM EST up reply actions
In other news...
Theo Epstein revealed to be George Stienbrenner’s long lost Love Child….
All we need now is for the Rangers to sign Lee
Brian Cashman might go totally bald. From tearing his hair out
So Theo was given a blank check book and told to:
“Improve NESN ratings.”
I love Lester, Pedroia, and Gonzo!!! ITS MAN LOVE!
+1
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
I'd love this, but is it remotely likely at this point?
Seems like the Yankees have every reason in the world to stuff as many dollars as they can into six years, now.
Hey Ben
You must have had a real late supper tonight. They must have signed him during your late night snack.
Live free or die watching sports
Which reminds me
TLD, were you baking cookies again tonight?
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Funnily enough, yes
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2010 12:42 AM EST up reply actions
Is this a perpetual bake sale you’ve got going on or do you just REALLY like cookies?
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
I was using up my last package of cookie dough
I need to empty my fridge before I go home for Christmas break.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2010 12:49 AM EST up reply actions
I was lazy in college, I would buy the cookie dough roll, and just eat it. Salmonella be damned raw cookie dough is frigin amazing.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Thankfully,
TheLoneDavid… twice now.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
I gotta make Christmas cookies when I get back home too.
I’ll be baking for like, a week straight.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
I always get a stomach ache when I eat raw cookie dough
Baked cookies are much better.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
I can't even believe the is a debate.
Cook the @#$%ing cookings already!
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
I'll go shopping this afternoon
I probably have two more batches in me, to wrap up the winter meetings.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2010 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
Also question
Can you please find another pack and bake some damn Russell Martin cookies?
by totheights on Dec 9, 2010 12:53 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'll bake Soto cookies
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
Nah
Got this one two minutes after it popped up on Twitter.
I faked ’em out by bringing home leftovers.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:43 AM EST up reply actions
When wondering where all this money was coming from.
Not resigning V-Mart and Beltre of course but not tons from that. I forgot how ridiculous Lowell banked. 12.5 mil
I love Lester, Pedroia, and Gonzo!!! ITS MAN LOVE!
That too.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
Pinstripe Alley
Is going nuts!!! I love it!!!
by irish_celtic_fan on Dec 9, 2010 12:36 AM EST reply actions
Err dude its a terrible contanct
HAHAHAHAH I love it. They were scared shitless after the Gonzo trade, now they are just petrified.
I love. F*** the MFY
I Know...
Yeah, the contract is pretty much absurd, but they really can’t recognize that the Sox are now doing EXACTLY what the MFY have been doing for the last 10 years… Just saying…
by irish_celtic_fan on Dec 9, 2010 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
Not absurd.
Large, expensive, definitely overpaid, but after the Werth deal anyone who didn’t expect this is either blind and deft or just dumb. Truth is the Nationals ruined the FA market this year. The Crawford deal is exactly market value.
Plus we will still be right around the budget many of us believed to be having at the beginning of the year ($170 million)
Not overpaid by WAR, really
And not WAR valuations, just WAR.
He’s a fantastic player. The question is if the Sox utilize him to his fullest.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:47 AM EST up reply actions
No doubt he is a fantastic player its just tough to be paying a non-power hitter $20 million + a year
That is the only reason I would consider him overpaid.
But like I said that is the market now, might aswell participate in it rather than sit back and let others take all the good players.
.495 SLG last year, for what it's worth.
That’s a definite power hitter if he plays CF, even if the ISO is lower than others’.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:51 AM EST up reply actions
Yup.
Has poor power and gets on-base at a slightly above-average rate.
Hopefully he improves the two and he’s doing it in CF.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 12:53 AM EST up reply actions
*poor power for a corner outfielder
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 12:54 AM EST up reply actions
Pretty sure .495 will end up being an above-average slugging percentage for a CO.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
He reaches a .360-370 wOBA
He’s an elite hitter and an elite defender. A Superstar quality player – he just doesn’t reach those ends in the traditional, sexy ways.
Does wOBA take into consideration stolen bases?
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 1:04 AM EST up reply actions
Wow.
Crawford had a .378 wOBA last year.
And he had a .365 wOBA 3 years before that.
Yeah, Fangraphs definitely factors in SBs.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 1:11 AM EST up reply actions
he just doesn’t reach those ends in the traditional, sexy ways.
So you’re saying he’s Superfreaky?
"Laser show. So relax."
"For the Patriots [playing the Jets], it was like fighting Piston Honda knowing that every time he raises an eyebrow, he's about to throw a jab."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 9, 2010 1:52 AM EST up reply actions
This
This is my biggest worry about the thing. Utilization.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Definitely overpaid.
Not saying Ben thinks this, but just in case anyone wanted to know…
“The biggest misconception about the dollar valuation seems to revolve around its purpose. It is not a salary predictor, or in way a projection of what a player is going to get when he becomes a free agent.”
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-dollar-value-of-a-win/
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 12:53 AM EST up reply actions
That's why I said "Not WAR valuations"
I think it just comes down to CF/LF. If he’s playing CF, he’s not underpaid, it’s just people undervaluing defense. If it’s LF, then yeah, probably overpaid barring some crazy shift.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:56 AM EST up reply actions
Okay, yeah you did.
readcompfail on my part.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 1:04 AM EST up reply actions
Overpaid can mean a lot of different things
But for me, Werth was overpaid and Crawford wasn’t. Why? Because no other team was going to give Werth that contract. All rumors were saying 5 years, maybe 6 for him, and then Washington just pops up with its 7-year lunacy… Flash forward to how that has affected the market. Everyone was now expecting Crawford to sign a contract somewhere in the range of 8-10 years at $20M per. So for us to get him at 7/$140M seems like a great deal.
Another way to think of it: If the headlines read “_______ signs Carl Crawford to 7 year / $142M contract,” none of us would be too outraged. The contract itself is not ridiculous because any number of teams would have done it. But insert a team name into that blank, and each team would lead to a different reaction. It is not the contract, but the team that people are reacting to. The reason everyone is saying it’s ridiculous is because we also got AGonz this off season.
I don’t think that Crawford in any way is being “overpaid.” However, it remains to be seen whether or not he will be worth the contract. But they are two separate issues. In other words, we are paying him market value, which is completely justifiable, even if he does not live up to the contract long-term.
No other team was going to give Crawford that deal either.
Did you see the Angels offer? $30+ million less.
Sorry, but we overpaid (not by nearly as much as Werth) for a great player. Its okay, we have the money to spend. In a world were the Nationals weren’t idiots and didn’t screw the market for everyone and their mother Crawford would have got $18 million while Werth would have got $15 million for less years.
Okay, I need to clear something up here.
The Nationals were NOT idiots to give Werth his deal, they made a calculated investment to draw attention to their team from prime free-agents. They have a core of good, young players, and clearly they believe that they can be competitive within Werth’s deal. I don’t blame them for thinking that, not with Strasburg, Harper, and Zimmerman on the team. Yes, they gave Werth a huge deal, yes it was bigger than anyone should have given him, but this is a lot like Boston’s deal with Dice-k, where Dice-k opened up a new market in Japan, the Werth deal showed the FA market that Washington was ready to play with the big dogs. This may be the start of a power shift in the NL East.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
I think they could've overpaid by a year or two less
and still have had the best offer for him by a long shot.
They needed to make a point though.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2010 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
No they needed to sign him
That alone would make a point.
They didn’t need to give him the 5th largest deal for an OFer in the history of baseball. He isn’t nearly that good.
Just signing Werth proves nothing.
It’s just another mediocre team trying to make a run at the Wild Card. This is an investment, and don’t be surprised to see them do deals like this a lot more often.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2010 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
The whole idea was to make Washington attractive by winning.
The other FAs of the world aren’t going to be impressed by their offer to Werth, they’re going to be impressed by their offer to them and the quality of the team.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
The money wins out.
This is all to get attention from FAs and the fans. They won’t dismiss Washington out of hand anymore, now that they know Lerner will spend more than New York and Boston.
This is the exact same move I would make, it’s the same move Ryan is trying to make, they are trying to force a shift in power in the National League. I wouldn’t be surprised, three, four years down the road, if we aren’t talking about the Nationals having gone deep in the playoffs.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
Nobody actually dismisses Washington out of hand.
If a guy comes walking up to you and mentions a number higher than every other number, than you pay attention regardless of the team’s history.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
But now he's got Washington
in the same place as Boston and New York. He’s gonna be one of the guys Boras goes to and asks “hey, you want in on this guy?”
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Why is that any advantage though
When they can just go to him?
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I dunno
That kinda just seems like a buzzword.
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I just think you're thinking about it like a Red Sox fan
and not a fan of a consistently-losing organization. I remember when Detroit did something like this with Larry Foote, signing him for way above market to get fans in the seats.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Official Baker of Red Sox Nation
But all that matters is the signing.
Fans don’t care that you spent more than you had to other than those who will criticize it.
It comes down to getting the player or not getting the player. Everything else is just overpaying.
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Agreed
You’re right David that they needed to make a point, but in effect, they made too much of a point. They overshot the market, over-anticipated all other offers.
And that’s fine, because they got their man. They’re not idiots, per se, but it was a ridiculous contract by all standards.
I doubt they over-anticipated the market.
This is Lerner going “Y’know what? Fuck this last place shit.” He’s flexing his financial muscles, and the entire FA market is going to change because of it.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2010 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
Which is kind of pulling a Yankees, as totheights said below
It doesn’t make him a bad owner to flex his financial muscles. It’s his team, and I applaud the guy for wanting to win. But that doesn’t mean that it wasn’t a bad contract.
I'm not saying it's not a bad contract.
I’m saying that it’s a smart move for the future. He’s getting attention from FAs, and probably from the DC area population. People who are sick of watching the Same Old Orioles. The Nats could be getting some more interest now.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2010 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
Reportedly the Sox offered six years, which is why Nats went to seven
Don’t know if it is true, but that is what has been reported here in DC. And the LoneDavid is right about the calculation the Nats made.
by The Herndon Kid on Dec 9, 2010 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
No the Nats are idiots.
They pulled a Yankees. The negotiated against themselves. When Scott Boras doesn’t even call up other teams to match an offer because the offer was in the next hemisphere you can be sure that the team that put down the offer overpaid.
No team was even going to give Werth 6 years, let alone 7. The Nats knew they had to overpay to get Werth over other clubs which is fine, but they didn’t need to over pay by that much and throw the whole market out of wack.
Yes, they did.
Otherwise top tier free agents barely take notice. Do you think Cliff Lee would even be talking to the Nats if they hadn’t done the Werth deal? He’s going to want significantly more money to go to DC than to Texas or New York, and the Werth deal proves they’re not afraid to give that out.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
If the Nats had signed Werth for 5/6 years
and still were offering 7 to Lee, then yes, I think he still would be interested in them. The two contracts are not mutually exclusive.
The deal was as much about getting attention
as it was getting Werth, I guarantee it.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Doesn't matter
They did what they needed to do, and they really don’t care about other teams. Lerner can afford these contracts.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2010 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
I think someone would have given him a similar deal.
But no, I hadn’t seen the Angels offer. I’m curious to find out what he was looking at from other teams (like the Tigers or the Yanks, if they had made an offer yet).
Even using your example though of $18M, that would work out to $126ish million over the course of the contract. So if we overpaid, it was by $16M over 7 years, or about $2M per year. I’m completely okay with that considering that Crawford is an elite talent.
The same difference from Werth's deal, incidentally.
Even if the Angels offer was $30 million less, I don’t think 7 years, $112 million (or even 6/$112) was going to get it done after Werth signed his deal.
Seriously, if before free agency started, you were told we would get Werth or Crawford, and the difference between the two deals would be $2 million per year… who out there would have taken Werth over Crawford?
I wanted out of the Crawford Sweepstakes after trading for Gonzalez and the Werth deal, figuring he was getting 8 years at $20 million per and wanting no part of that.
For $16 million more than Werth over 7 years? This might be more than he’s worth over the contract (we’ll see in a few years, pending what teams are spending then), but it was definitely a great deal in the current market, imho.
So long as the years are even I take Crawford.
If Werth had been available at 4, though…
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly...
If we could have done a shorter deal, that would have been ideal.
Frankly, I was all for a 2011 OF that was Ellsbury in LF, Cameron starting in CF with Kalish taking over mid-year, and Drew in RF, with Ellsbury/Kalish/Reddick taking over in RF for 2012.
However, at this price, I’m willing to revise my dream OF… Ellsbury in LF, Cameron in CF, Drew in RF next year, with some combination of Ellsbury/Kalish/Crawford in 2012, and Reddick either as the trading chip or insurance for Kalish’s development.
Frankly, I want to hang onto Ellsbury, who (unlike Crawford) is willing to bat lead off and does a pretty good job there (more patience would help, but if he keeps getting on base with a .300+ average, I’m fine with that).
If we have to decide between Kalish/Crawford in CF and RF in 2012, that’s an interesting problem to have and one I think we can figure out.
But, hell, the three of those guys (Ellsbury/Crawford/Kalish) roaming the OF… that is a lot of ground covered.
Damn it...
My mind is melting.. my new dream OF should have been Ellsbury in LF, Crawford in CF (obviously) and Drew in RF…
I really hope he’s willing to play CF for Boston, now that he’s away from the guy with the Rays that said he couldn’t play CF…
Ugh. Offseason champions can be such a bittersweet title
But I’ll take it for now.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
Uh really?
Because most of us over there are laughing at you guys for signing a speed guy for 140 mil….
Yet you guys want to sign Cliff Lee to a 6 year deal for $25+ million?
Hahahahaha oh MFY fans are kinda sad right now.
Are these the same guys who were laughing when you were up 3-0 in 2004?
Yeah, thought so.
"Laser show. So relax."
"For the Patriots [playing the Jets], it was like fighting Piston Honda knowing that every time he raises an eyebrow, he's about to throw a jab."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 9, 2010 1:53 AM EST up reply actions
Ha ha ha!
Awesome…
And, I know he’s known for his speen and never hit 20 home runs… but at his age, with 19 homers/90 RBIs last season, the speed he’s got and his defense, why should I be upset that we’re paying this guy less than their “power” hitting third baseman with the bad hip…
Wait… what did they sign Jeter for? How old will he be when that contract runs out?
Well I was going to be about 40 minutes ago and saw this on Twitter.
Had to come check it out. But now its late damn it! haha
Talk to you guys tomorrow.
I love Lester, Pedroia, and Gonzo!!! ITS MAN LOVE!
Suck on my bridge year!
Its all in for the Sox!
This is revenge
From the Teixeira and Sabathia deals in 2008.
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by Jared Stegall on Dec 9, 2010 12:42 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Until Theo & Co. complete the Gonzo extension
I’m not completely sold just yet.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
Just so we're clear, that's basically a done deal under-the-table.
Everyone is reporting 7/154. With sources.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:45 AM EST up reply actions
I understand.
I’m just a cynic at heart, sorry.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
I still don't understand how that is allowed
Everyone knows they have this deal “done,” so why does MLB allow it to happen? I’m not complaining, because it works out well for us. Just curious.
What can MLB do?
Sure everyone “knows” it, but unless there is a written document or recording of the Sox making that kind of deal what can they do?
I don't think its legally "done"...
At this point, Gonzalez probably could enter free agency next year and not breach any agreement with the Sox according to MLB. However, we’ve promised him 154MM reasons not to do so.
"Laser show. So relax."
"For the Patriots [playing the Jets], it was like fighting Piston Honda knowing that every time he raises an eyebrow, he's about to throw a jab."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 9, 2010 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
Because the Sox are owed that privilege by virtue of having him under contract this year.
They can extend him whenever they damn please.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
This...
… finally makes me feel better about that whole situation.
I totally forgot about that concept. I was stressing that an investigation might get us in hot water, or that Boggs/Gonzalez would say screw it… let’s see what we get in FA and we’d be out the prospects.
However, since he’s under contract for 2011 already, I think you are right that we can announce the deal after Opening Day, which I think someone else pointed out is what we did with Beckett’s extension…
Suddenly, this makes sense and I feel so much better.
Actually, I feel fantastic after slowly coming around on the Crawford signing. I think I spent the first few hours (and most of my dreamtime last night) in complete and total shock.
I am still waiting for the announcement that we offered Cliff Lee 7 years/$140 million and he accepted… I mean, even then, we wouldn’t be to the Yankees payroll in 2011, would we?
Basically
If the team couldn’t do that, then the MLB would be incentivizing putting off extensions to the last minute and punishing those who locked up players during the offseason, when it is the easiest to do so. It’s in the MLBs best interest, though, that a good deal of stars stay where they are so markets don’t fall off the map.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
Right
Not sure why people think this is some sort of backhanded move by the Sox.
They’re not cheating here. They’ve discussed an extension with Gonzo and they’re going to finalize it when they’d like to. THERE IS NOTHING AT ALL WRONG WITH THAT. It is not a loophole in the system or anything. So bizarre the reactions I see to this. Are you inside their head? Do you know they’ve been actually agreed? Even if they had its when they sign the deal that counts.
Not trying to be all contrarian here. Not rabblerousing :)
Just trying to learn about the rules, that’s all.
Oh, wasn't directed at you! I wasn't even thinking of your comment!
Mostly other people I talked to about it, here, there, on twitter…
Rotoworld’s blurb was retarded. That’s who called it a “loophole.” Its not a ****ing loophole, morons. They didn’t sign a deal in secret. What, you KNOW they have a deal done? Pretty weak stuff from them.
I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to extend him whenever they want
I think my question is more about his contract not impacting the luxury tax. If we don’t announce it until spring, then the money doesn’t “count” against our payroll, right? That just seems like the type of thing that MLB wouldn’t allow.
It’s like a business processing December invoices in January, so that the expenses appear on your 2011 tax return instead of the 2010. Does the IRS let you do that? I don’t know, I’m not an accountant.
Its more like actually postponing the signing of a business deal until the next calendar year.
and then people complaining you’re trying to avoid taxes and everyone knows you’ve already agreed to the deal.
he will
You don’t give up Kelly and Rizzo and Fuentes for a one year rental
I know, I know.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
If that doesn't happen I will.... Well....
Its going to happen, not even worried about it.
I love Lester, Pedroia, and Gonzo!!! ITS MAN LOVE!
I have been looking at Pinstripe and Drays but not there yet!
I love Lester, Pedroia, and Gonzo!!! ITS MAN LOVE!
The Rev has gone berserk as he thinks Boras reps Cliff Lee.
by Scooby Snacks on Dec 9, 2010 12:53 AM EST up reply actions
Who knows what this batting order will look like....
Crawford in either the 2, 5, or 6 spots you gotta belive. But I want to leave Pedroia in the 2 because I want him and Youk around Gonzo.
I love Lester, Pedroia, and Gonzo!!! ITS MAN LOVE!
no idea
but it’s a good problem to have. I bet Francona is drinking some Bigelow tea and laughing right now
by JordanS on Dec 9, 2010 12:49 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
haha
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 12:54 AM EST up reply actions
Batting order is confusing.
I’d imagine Crawford hits after Gonz/Youk. So maybe
Ellsbury
Pedroia
Gonzalez
Youkilis
Ortiz
Crawford
Drew
Lowrie/Scutaro (still hoping Lowrie starts)
Salty/Varitek.
With maybe Cameron taking Drew or Ellsbury’s place vs. lefties. If Cameron subs for Ellsbury, then Crawford leads off?
I hope Crawfish is willing to lead-off this time around.
Oh, he had his peculiarities. He would not play centerfield. He would not bat leadoff.
Once, he says, when Tom Foley was the Rays’ farm director, Crawford says Foley told him that he was a leftfielder, that Rocco Baldelli was a better centerfielder. And that was that. Crawford was a leftfielder.
“Foley says he never told me that,” Crawford says. "But you don’t forget when a man tells you that to your face. He crushed me. After that, I said, ’I’m never playing centerfield again.’ "
As for batting leadoff?
“I just thought I (stank) at it, to be honest with you,” Crawford says. “Lou (Piniella) put me second. Maybe I could have gotten better at it, but I just wasn’t comfortable. It didn’t have anything to do with stats. I just don’t think I’m a good leadoff hitter.”
http://www.tampabay.com/sports/baseball/rays/article1125886.ece
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 12:56 AM EST up reply actions
Touchy.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
I think CC (declaring it his official nickname, by the way) will bat 5th.
1 – Ells (if he’s around), Drew, or Cameron
2 – Laser show
3 – Youk/Gonz
4 – Gonz/Youk
5 – CC
6 – Ortiz
7 – Cameron or Drew
8 – Lowrie/Scutaro
9 – Salty/Tek
Something like that
CC/Crawfish
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 12:57 AM EST up reply actions
CC = Sabbathia
Too confusing.
Crawfish, Crawdaddy, just plain Craw…I’m good with those.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
I've been saying Crawfish but I really like Crawdaddy now.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
Does Ellsbury become...
…Ellsbaby, then?
"Laser show. So relax."
"For the Patriots [playing the Jets], it was like fighting Piston Honda knowing that every time he raises an eyebrow, he's about to throw a jab."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 9, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Ellsfairy.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
My question is
how much can you mitigate the small left field with a min-outfield shift? If they play Crawford farther from the left field line, he can cover for Ellsbury and still take care of balls all over left field. Or he can play more in and take away a ton of bloop singles. I think we’re going to see Crawford play Fenway’s left field like no one in recent times has. He’s going to be more of a left-center fielder, with Ellsbury shifting a bit right.
He should just be a center fielder
Especially since we are paying him $20 million a year. At that price you should be able to move from LF to CF.
I hope he plays CF, too.
But if he plays in LF, I really hope he plays a unique LF like ThePanda suggests.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 12:59 AM EST up reply actions
New Fantasy
Since we seem to now have near-complete control over MLB from this blog.
What would it take to get McCutcheon from the Pirates and have the greatest offense of all time?
Ellsbury, Iglesias, Doubront…
God, I love Cutch, but it ain't happening.
Homie can do it all.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 1:00 AM EST up reply actions
As others have said
For $20 million a year, he’d damn well better be happy wherever we decide to put him.
I don't like this..
way, way too many years..
To say I am surprise, is an understatement..
Well, now we need is a catcher, a bullpen, and pray that Lackey, Beckett or Matsuzaka have a good year, and Lester and Buchholz don’t screw up, we should be in good shape.
I like Crawford, but I am surprise they won the sweepstakes for him..
obv not
but thats a damn stupid contract just in terms of the quality of the player
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 9, 2010 3:30 AM EST up reply actions
mang, who cares about si.com
all the big dawgz have said it has gone through
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 1:00 AM EST up reply actions
Damn, we are naughty by nature.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 1:02 AM EST up reply actions
How did this leak out, though?
It kind of doesn’t serve a purpose now that the Yankees are clearly aware of it.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 1:05 AM EST up reply actions
But it does.
I think both bids are up to 7 now.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
Wasn't there already a 7 year offer before the Sox stepped in?
I guess we won’t know because the 1st offer could have been from the Sox.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 1:09 AM EST up reply actions
Rangers are up to 7?
That’s news to me. I thought Lee was going back to Texas if they offered six years…
Saw this
Theo Epstein is, unquestionably, the greatest GM in sports. Wrecked these winter meetings. Played them like a f***ing fiddle.
At 7pm tonight he said not much was going on, just wanted to go home cause he was tired!
HAHA
I love Lester, Pedroia, and Gonzo!!! ITS MAN LOVE!
He is one clever fellow.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 1:02 AM EST up reply actions
Theo quoted:
The Red Sox, he said, do not have to make a trade to accommodate Crawford, although the move does make it a little easier to do that if they want.
Does this mean I’m going to get coffee and have Jepsen and Napoli in exchange for Ellsbury?
"Laser show. So relax."
"For the Patriots [playing the Jets], it was like fighting Piston Honda knowing that every time he raises an eyebrow, he's about to throw a jab."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 9, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
OK
Obviously not “quoted.” Stupid grammar, be more correcter.
"Laser show. So relax."
"For the Patriots [playing the Jets], it was like fighting Piston Honda knowing that every time he raises an eyebrow, he's about to throw a jab."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 9, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
AHAHAHAHA
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:57 AM EST up reply actions
Ha! “Wait, what? We take our offer back! 6/138! Final Offer”
“Oh Aaaangels!”
“I MEANT 8/200!!!”
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
Soooooo
Tell me they are still in on cliff lee for 7 years even after they just landed cc?
Live free or die watching sports
sure at what they offered him
it was a 7 year deal for not even close to enough money per year to sign him. They just did it so his agent could say “well I’ve got a 7 year offer here”
Screw it, get Mauer too.
And Pujols!
And the entire Yankees organization! Make them our Triple-A team!
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
SOTOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
"Today, the Red Sox called up Mariano Rivera from the AAA New York Yankees..."
“…John Lackey sent down as a balancing roster move.”
When asked why he traded Upton for Kolbrin Vitek and Brandon Workman, GM Kevin Towers just mumbled “I kinda got caught up in the flow…”
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
What, you'll take Scutaro for Broxton and Kuo?
Seems a little low for us, why don’t you pay their salaries as well. Deal then, great working with you.
Dang crazy deal breaking at midnight!
Gotta shut the computer down, have to be up in 6 hours.
I love Lester, Pedroia, and Gonzo!!! ITS MAN LOVE!
12 LH hitters in the big leagues got at least 62 extra-base hits in '10. RedSox now have 3 of them - Crawford, Gonzalez & Papi
by dsharp on Dec 9, 2010 1:06 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Hey Ben, do you think this is possible?
Ellsbury and spare parts for Greinke AND Matsuzaka for Beltran
by irish_celtic_fan on Dec 9, 2010 1:06 AM EST reply actions
Yes
But only if it’s followed shortly thereafter by Theo being arrested for drugging both GM’s drinks.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
By spare parts...
I of course meant, “prospects.”
by irish_celtic_fan on Dec 9, 2010 1:09 AM EST up reply actions
Theo, that's not what they meant when they said
“drug the drink and fuck’em”
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
Yes
If Al Davis was the GM of the Mets and the Royals
"Laser show. So relax."
"For the Patriots [playing the Jets], it was like fighting Piston Honda knowing that every time he raises an eyebrow, he's about to throw a jab."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 9, 2010 1:58 AM EST up reply actions
*were
"Laser show. So relax."
"For the Patriots [playing the Jets], it was like fighting Piston Honda knowing that every time he raises an eyebrow, he's about to throw a jab."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 9, 2010 1:59 AM EST up reply actions
We don't need anymore outfielders
My guess someone is gotta to go, and I am thinking Ellsbury is the number one trade bait, unless Crawford is going to take over right field in 2012.
Even though I would like a better rotation, the Sox starting rotation shouldn’t be touched unless it is 1:1 trade for a starting pitcher..
Huntington Said He'd Listen on McCutcheon Last Week
But he’d have to be overwhelmed. Seems like Theo can overwhelm GMs and players alike with his musky aura these days.
Sex Panther
60% of the time, it works all the time.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
MFY offering Lee 6/137 - average 22.8M per year.
I wonder what “our offer” over 7 years totaled, if we were the mystery team, that is.
7/35
The AAV was supposed to be so low he wouldn’t accept.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
7/70.
Hell, if he happens to accept, why not?
If he accepted 7/70
my head would explode, first one, then the other.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
Me2.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 1:20 AM EST up reply actions
Do you guys think we were the 1st team to go 7 years?
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 1:20 AM EST up reply actions
If we were the 1st, then Theo seriously is a mad genius.
That is brilliant.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 1:21 AM EST up reply actions
The real question is
is the other 7-year mystery team legit? And did we convince them to offer that much?
Sidney Crosby has been traded to the Red Sox
For a PTBNL.
When asked about the deal Theo said: “We loved his defensive ability and love the offensive ability” he continued “we just felt like we needed to get something done to improve our bench and we think Sid can play all positions and be great. We feel he is the best bench player in the league.”
Penguins GM Ray Shero’s thoughts “Well Theo just walked up to me and said I want Crosby. Then I blacked out and next thing I know I was holding this press conference. Anyone know what I got back for Sid?”
If this happened
I’d have to become a White Sox fan, I HATE Crosby.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
I don't care
It’d be like the Lions trading for Micheal Vick, there are some players who I hate so much that I can’t be a fan of any team that signs them.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
Coincidently
My NFL team is the Eagles and my hockey team is the Penguins.
We’ll always have the Sox.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Not to brand myself a horrible person, but outside the MLB
I’m all-Michigan, all the time. U of M for college sports, the Lions, the Red Wings, so on and so forth.
Except basketball, I can’t even follow the sport, it’s so boring.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
Oh, and Western Illinois in the FCS
Go ’Necks
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
Go The Citadel!
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 1:49 AM EST up reply actions
Not big on Military Academies
I came here to study Law Enforcement, but I’m changing my major now.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
I'm an English major not at The Citadel but I still root for The Citadel every chance I get even though I have nothing to do with the Citadel.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 2:16 AM EST up reply actions
Col. Rocky says bite me!
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
Roar Lions Roar.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
University of Chicago Maroons... uh... um...
Nevermind…
"Laser show. So relax."
"For the Patriots [playing the Jets], it was like fighting Piston Honda knowing that every time he raises an eyebrow, he's about to throw a jab."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 9, 2010 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
The Citadel yo
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
WISCONSIN!!!
We’re going to the Rose Bowl!!!! Celebration at Chaser’s tonight!!!
I am probably going to App State!
Go Mountaineers!
I love Lester, Pedroia, and Gonzo!!! ITS MAN LOVE!
F&^% App State
You guys were too good this year, ran all over us in the playoffs.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Official Baker of Red Sox Nation
You guys have a playoff?
Lucky.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
We made the FCS Playoffs
Beat Coastal Carolina, then got bounced by App State
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Official Baker of Red Sox Nation
Beaver Stadium Went NUTS
When y’all beat Michigan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=397UrwydsC0
Skip ahead to about 1:30.
This was my first season as an alum so I wasn’t there but seriously, I don’t think anyone cheered that loudly this year for anything WE did.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Theo then promptly flipped Crosby for Buster Posey
In unrelated news, Brian Sabean was found semi-conscious in a dumpster this morning, muttering something about “the sweet perfume of the boy wonder.”
Fantastic.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
Chuck Norris sucks.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
Chuck Norris will find you.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
They don't know anything.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 1:33 AM EST up reply actions
BREAKING NEWS
Red Sox trade batboy and a dozen resin bags to Seattle for Felix Hernandez.
Mariners GM was found in an Orlando hotel conference room with a pen in his hand and no recollection of how he got there
Didn't Crawford
often hit 6th for the Rays?
I think that’s about where he’ll stay for us, best utilizing his speed. They’ll never let him run if he’s in front of Gonzo and Youk.
Pedroia's Next Contract
Might break a few records as well, after what his new teammates are receiving.
Thank musky Theo that’s still a few crazy cheap years away.
It stings the nostrils...
"Laser show. So relax."
"For the Patriots [playing the Jets], it was like fighting Piston Honda knowing that every time he raises an eyebrow, he's about to throw a jab."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 9, 2010 2:01 AM EST up reply actions
Sounds like a t-shirt to me.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
With this deal,
how much money do the Sox have to spend on the bullpen?
LOL
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 9, 2010 1:49 AM EST up reply actions
To hit 170 or 178?
178 is the new threshold for the tax, 170 was out payroll last year.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
178
I’m assuming Theo is gonna go balls out given his recent history
I think it's like, 20mm
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
Subtracting Lowell and Lugo alone pay for year 1 of Crawford
I have to admit, all rationality aside, I’m getting excited.
by Tarrsk on Dec 9, 2010 2:12 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Have to include player benefits in that
Probably around $10m
by South Coast Ghost on Dec 9, 2010 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
its always hard to figure out exact numbers
but i’m guessing that Theo still has between 10-20M with which to upgrade the bullpen.
Does That
figure in arbitration cases? I’d say it’s more like 8-10, which should still do the trick if they don’t sign Martin.
I don't know if anyone cares
But the Padres just traded for Bartlett.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
Hm just woke up
Initial reactions before reading any comments or articles here:
1. Please tell me he plays CF
2. hmm still dont like it much
3. Hello Yankees!
4. Whats up Angel Fans? :D
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 9, 2010 2:14 AM EST reply actions
5. please convince him to bat leadoff
5a. do not let him bat 3rd
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 9, 2010 2:17 AM EST up reply actions
If my calculations are moderately accurate...
… filing out the roster with in-house talent would bring us to ~ $ 153MM plus insurance, etc. for luxury tax purposes. I think we can add a Russell Martin and some pen arms.
"Laser show. So relax."
"For the Patriots [playing the Jets], it was like fighting Piston Honda knowing that every time he raises an eyebrow, he's about to throw a jab."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 9, 2010 3:08 AM EST reply actions
Wow
How’d this happen? XD
Carl Crawford in Boston? Just like that? God bless Theo. : ))
I was always for Martin
but how much in talent would Mike Napoli cost now?
Napolis 3 last years against LHP:
’08: 978 OPS
’09: 1.023 OPS
’10: .966 OPS.
He is a pure monster against lefties and that from catcher amazing. I’ll be happy with Martin but Napoli would also be pretty awesome.
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 9, 2010 3:20 AM EST reply actions
Ellsbury for Jespen and Napoli! FTW
Twitter | "Almost every organization has a guy like Papelbon or Lester" - Dave Cameron 12/29/2005
uuh that would be sweet
and thats not even an unrealistic trade is it?
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 9, 2010 3:39 AM EST up reply actions
Not the way things are going.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
Haha... decent chance if Theo called Tony Reagins right now he would tell him to GFY and hang up.
Screwed them on Crawford, screwed them last year on Lackey… and every year before that in the playoffs!
checking out Halo Heaven this morning will be one the sweet things of this trade
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 9, 2010 3:40 AM EST up reply actions
They're focusing on the expense of the deal ...
… and the fact that three years from now Mike Trout may be really good. They’re definitely not focusing on their lack of offense.
"Laser show. So relax."
"For the Patriots [playing the Jets], it was like fighting Piston Honda knowing that every time he raises an eyebrow, he's about to throw a jab."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 9, 2010 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
3rd base is a bigger concern to me
I’ve always thought Adrian Beltre should have been our top priority. Don’t get me wrong, I wanted Crawford, but not at this Washington Nationals-esque price. (Who thought anyone would be saying that this winter?)
Offense is our main concern and Kendry’s return along with some extra thump from a guy like Beltre would go a long way toward solving that. A new leadoff hitter would be nice, but I’m willing to see what Abreu can do there since he still OBP’d above .350 while dropping to the .250 range on BA.
Scioscialist Party of America - Redistributing your defense since 2000.
by Commander_Nate on Dec 9, 2010 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
Wisely and well said
Beltre is awesome – a fun guy to have on the team and provides awesome defensive highlights. Agreed that the Angels and the Sox have different economic structures, such that an overpay like this would have been much worse for the Halos. That said, Crawford is slightly more awesome than HH is giving him credit for at the moment (which is understandable, I suppose).
"Laser show. So relax."
"For the Patriots [playing the Jets], it was like fighting Piston Honda knowing that every time he raises an eyebrow, he's about to throw a jab."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 9, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
I think he just did with his signing Crawford...
I always thought Crawford was going to go to the MFYs, however I think Gardner has proven himself to be a very good player, but LF of Coors Park East is an ideal place to show off Crawford’s fielding skills…
I am still in shock that the Sox landed Crawford, I am thinking that someone has to go from the outfield..
For 2011
it might make sense to trade Ellsbury but what about 2012? We would only have CC. I believe this deal was made because there is nobody remotely close to CC on this and next years FA market. If we lose CC we still have to get 1-2 OF starters next year.
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 9, 2010 4:31 AM EST up reply actions
Careful
Reagins is a ninja. That means he’s cool; and by cool, I mean totally sweet. His purpose is to flip out and kill people. Or possibly to crochet. At any rate, his purpose is apparently not to improve his baseball team – which is unusual for a GM.
"Laser show. So relax."
"For the Patriots [playing the Jets], it was like fighting Piston Honda knowing that every time he raises an eyebrow, he's about to throw a jab."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 9, 2010 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
I'm thinking there's gonna be a rise in payroll.
Also, my mind is blown. Just wow.
Also, is Lee up next?
My belief systems are shattered.
Unless we take on a lot more payroll
to bring in bullpen help, it should not be that much of a rise.
We are currently sitting around 156M, if you add in the Crawford deal to 2011 column of:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2010-roster.shtml
If they are aiming to stay just under this year’s luxury tax threshold of 177M, that gives Theo about 20M to spend still.
If he trades Scutaro as part of any deal, he might clear up some of his 5M as well.
perfect rest of the hot stove season
Sign Downs
Sign Martin or trade for Napoli
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 9, 2010 4:32 AM EST reply actions
Sign Lee to 4/80 Deal.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Trade bits and pieces for Soto.
In a perfect world, it happens.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
What the blue hell??
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
by Bloggy on Dec 9, 2010 6:17 AM EST via mobile reply actions
On a side note:
The Red Sox now have two of the four black players in MLB…
Also, watching a repeat of Hot Stove on MLB Network and Harold Reynolds is saying the Yankees are definitely getting Crawford… Muhahahaha
For the love of god, can we get a QB and a new HC?
by return2greatness on Dec 9, 2010 9:49 AM EST reply actions
Uhm, I was excited last night
But I just remembered the last outfielder the Sox signed named Carl.
shudder
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
I hope so.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2010 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
Does he believe in dinosaurs?
"Laser show. So relax."
"For the Patriots [playing the Jets], it was like fighting Piston Honda knowing that every time he raises an eyebrow, he's about to throw a jab."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 9, 2010 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
Outfielders named Carl?
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Ok, there are way too many comments for me to catch up
But I love this. Yes, I know we’ll be weaker against lefties, but I don’t care. Watching the Durham Bulls (Tampa’s AAA team) year after year means the Rays have a lot of players I like. It will be nice to be able to root for him openly now :).
to say I'm excited about this season...
would be a massive, MASSIVE understatement.
This lineup is filthy. Rotten, stinky, filthy filth.
…In the best possible way.
Lowrie and Cameron also
Twitter | "Almost every organization has a guy like Papelbon or Lester" - Dave Cameron 12/29/2005
Tickets onsale Saturday
I wonder if I can get all 81 games in the upper bleachers? $1296 isn’t that bad for season tickets.
I live in NY
and will be visiting boston more than my usual 2/3 times a year.
I’m buying tickets ASAP. This is insane.
I bet we sign him next year.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2010 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
CF
Pretty easily. Hopefully he’ll fit there before the weekend, so the Yankees panic and give Cliffy 8/200.
Depends on Kalish
Ells/Beltran/Crawbaby or Kalish/Beltran/Crawbaby with Ells as the 4th.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2010 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Theo sold some tickets, then?
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
It's better now
But at least a few years ago before the drastic reconstruction of the field boxes in LF, you had crazy walkway traffic directly in front of you, and to the side, so you were lucky if you could see any of the plate regularly. Even down the RF line is tricky.
yeah the RF grandstands are just awful
bleachers over them any day. I prefer to see the game, thank you.
I like the loge boxes just fine.
Better than sitting back with the poles.
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sorry, what I meant was
some are. Most of them are just awesome seats that I absolutely love. But if you get one that’s right at the beginning of an aisle near an exit, you’re gonna be spending at least three innings of the game staring at a hot dog vendor’s butt or at field box-owning fans (who apparently prefer to stand in the aisle and chat rather than sit in their very nice seats) instead of the game
Seven years?
Ridiculous. Sox will be regretting this deal by 2018…
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Ha
Well, if I had to pick…
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How?
The guys an athletic freak. Even at 36, I guarantee he’s better than Mike Cameron.
Cant hurt us too bad, and who gives a shit?I’m an immediate future kinda guy, and I’m excited.
No reason not to be.
And I honestly dont even think we overpayed him.
Look at Werths deal, then look at Crawfords…….lol
Certainly didn't overpay
When compared to Werth. Doesn’t mean it isn’t a bad deal, though.
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Very true
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I'm not saying it IS a bad deal
But one bad deal for one player for one team doesn’t mean another deal for another player on another team is necessarily a good one.
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Seussian
But if a good player on a bad team can be a bad deal, can’t a good player for a good deal be on a good team? And is the bad deal for the good player a bad deal if the bad team becomes a good team? And what if the good player on the good team stays a good player, not a bad player, but is not as good of a player, and the good team is a good team, then is it a bad deal?
Randy Sighting.
I compared you to Lenin earlier, don’t hit me.
Crawbaby’s gonna be 36 at the end of the deal, he’ll be fine.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2010 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
He's like this generation's Cameron.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2010 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
This
Our own Mike Cameron posted a 4.4 WAR in 2009, his age 36/37 year and Crawford is clearly a better player
How do we know this?
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Lenin has shit on me
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Does that make me Stalin?
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
Depends
Are you going to kill my family and send me to Siberia?
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
He will
if you don’t stop flooding the threads with Soto nonsense.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
Bloggy, do you think he really would do that and forsake these:
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Official Baker of Red Sox Nation
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
If I did
Nobody would know.
They wouldn’t even realize you were ever here.
There is a “delete all comments” button.
And a “kill family and send to Siberia” button.
Not sure why that one’s available though…
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Too bad I have a
“your economy is stupid and doesn’t work” button.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Official Baker of Red Sox Nation
Manny made $20 mill in ‘03. That was a big contract. Crawford’s $20 mill now is a big contract, seven years later. It may not change much at all…
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I'll get back to you in 2018....
After 3-5 rings.
So we get 2 elite players this off-season
both at age 28 and both long-term (well at least we think on Gonzo)
This puts us with the following core for some time to come: Lester, Pedroia, Youkilis, Buchholz, Gonzalez, Crawford, Lowrie
5 of the 7 posting 5+ WAR in their most recent non-injured season
I've been bitching for YEARS
that we give 80%-value contracts to players who are 60% as good as the elite. Now that we’re getting the best of the best, it feels damn good.
Here
Lester: 5.6 (2010)
Gonzalez: 5.3 (2010)
Crawford: 6.9 (2010)
Youk: 5.9 (2009)
Pedroia: 5.0 (2009)
That's a cool number.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2010 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
Is John Henry in Liverpool?
And does he know Theo stole his wallet?
This
There was talk of him getting 10 years! As I said above, the deal can’t be considered an “overpay” if it is consistent with the market. That doesn’t mean Crawford will be worth the deal (I think he will for what it’s worth), but let’s stop saying we “overpaid.”
Just a couple of notes:
Are people NOW willing to understand…the Red Sox salaries are only limited by their revenue.
I hate the length of this contract, BUT, its not obvious the Red Sox are going to try and win now in the next 5-7 years and then rebuild.
Theo is all in for the next 5 years. Which is great!!!
OH MY GOD.
I’m so mad. Now I’m a realist. NOW you have the best team in baseball.
"Don't give up, don't ever give up."
* patronizingly *
They’re all good teams, in their own special ways…
(j/k)
"Laser show. So relax."
"For the Patriots [playing the Jets], it was like fighting Piston Honda knowing that every time he raises an eyebrow, he's about to throw a jab."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 9, 2010 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
I'd sure take Crawford, Gonzalez
Over Teixeira, Granderson any day of the week.
Theo wins the GM war, hands down.
"Never have a motto, that's what I always say" - Me
http://marcel-oehler.marcellosendos.ch/comics/ch/1986/05/19860506.gif
yea, yea, crawdaddy, big deal
come on theo – but what have you done in the last hour?
sorry if this was posted previously, but i got through 600 posts and couldn’t read anymore.
all non sox fans – we have too many posts! – go to the mfy blog – it’s lonely over there.
I rather him play left field where he wants to play
I mean, if Ellsbaby can stay healthy, imagine two base stealers on base. Would be crazy.
I’m guessing Kalish will replace JD Drew in a year or two though right?
I think this is my new dream OF for 2012...
Crawford in LF (if he won’t play CF, that is), Ellsbury in CF (unless he has a better arm than Kalish) and end up with Kalish in RF.
I don’t remember… how good is Kalish’s arm? I know he’s got range that would be sick in RF, but if we’re sticking with Ellsbury in CF, then I’d like to see a solid arm taking over for Drew in RF.
We do think Kalish is better than Reddick, right? Three CFs in the same OF sounds like a lot of fun to me. In that scenario, Reddick becomes a trading chip?
I think we’ve been spoiled by how effortlessly good J.D. Drew’s defense has been out there. Very underrated, unspectacular but consistently among the best rated RFs in the game, regardless of the matrix used to measure his performance.
What a great week
Please MFY sign Lee to some stupid contract and make it better !
!!!!! GONZO !!!!!
Please let the Rangers sign Lee to some stupid contract.
and panic the Yankees into selling their farm out just to give some other jerk a stupid contract!
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