Red Sox To Acquire Adrian Gonzalez
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 8:15 AM EST
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PrintAccording to ESPN's Buster Olney, the Red Sox have agreed to a deal that will bring star first baseman Adrian Gonzalez to Boston from San Diego.
The news comes on the heels of a night filled with rumors that the Red Sox were in serious talks and getting close to a deal.
Gonzalez has arrived in Boston in order to have medical reports taken. While this is usually a cut-and-dry matter, after Gonzalez' recent surgery, the Red Sox will want to be thorough. Also, as one of the stipulations of the deal the Red Sox will receive a window in which to extend Adrian Gonzalez. In the unlikely event that they prove unable to do so, the trade would be effectively canceled. He currently has one year left on his old contract at $6 million.
The Padres will receive Red Sox prospects Casey Kelly, Anthony Rizzo, and Reymond Fuentes in return. A player to be named later is also included, making it a 4-for-1 deal. While Kelly and Rizzo are big names to give up, by all accounts the Sox got away fairly cheap here, holding on to names like Ryan Kalish and Jose Iglesias.
So what are the Red Sox getting in Adrian Gonzalez? It's hard to be sure. They could be getting a great first baseman who hits .298/.393/.511, or they could be getting an absolutely ridiculous first baseman who hits .315/.402/.578 away from cavernous Petco Park. Combined with now-third baseman Kevin Youkilis, the Red Sox will have a dominant 3-4 combination that they've lacked since the departure of Manny Ramirez and the decline of David Ortiz.
Assuming the deal is finalized, it will be the culmination of more than a year of angst for Red Sox fans. Talks of a Gonzalez deal emerged last year, with most centered around now-star pitcher Clay Buchholz. While neither the Red Sox nor Padres seemed willing to budge at the time, with San Diego now facing the reality of seeing his trade value drop dramatically as the season gets under way, former Red Sox assistant general manager and current Padres GM Jed Hoyer finally pulled the trigger.
For many Red Sox fans, this is a much-needed shot-in-the-arm for a Red Sox offseason that had been a bit lethargic so far. After missing out on Victor Martinez, and with Adrian Beltre looking more-and-more likely to head out west, there was a growing nervousness that the Sox would again be looking for stopgaps instead of solutions in a risky free agent market. This would seem to belay those fears, though there is still a question mark behind the plate and in the bullpen, and the issue of free agent outfielders Jayson Werth and Carl Crawford hasn't been cleared up yet.
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Happy Holidays
I am soooo stoked right now. I wonder who they gave up. I know it was centered around Kelly and Rizzo + 1 major league rdy player, probably Lowrie :(.
That should have read
Happy Holidays! Christmas comes early.
Still haven't heard anything about any major leaguers being included.
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You'd think the news would be mentioning Lowrie if he were part of the deal.
Since he’s by far the best known of the three.
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Only news on Twitter are complaints from both sides.
Sox fans either annoyed anyone was talking about including Lowrie, Padres fans upset they apparently didn’t get Lowrie, and other Sox fans pissed that they didn’t ship him off.
So, in other words, no smoke yet.
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The deal would likely involve three or four players from the Sox, including one who is major league-ready.
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Major league ready
Implies someone who has already been in AAA, and is ready to go, not necessarily someone who has experience.
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Merry Christmas everyone !!!
In Theo I will always, always trust.
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by BoldandBrash on Dec 4, 2010 8:39 AM EST via mobile reply actions
He?
Theo?
Santa Claus?
Gonzo?
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
Obviously Gonzo
I’m not sure we should committ to Santa long term. He’s a little rotund.
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by BoldandBrash on Dec 4, 2010 8:42 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I hear he has a smooth delivery to second
And surprising vertical range.
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
Oi
I woke up after 3-or-so hours of sleep, was about to go back down, and thought “Well, maybe I should check Twitter first.”
It’s a good pain, though.
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Me too
I woke up and can’t go back to sleep
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by BoldandBrash on Dec 4, 2010 8:51 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I hate to be greedy, but now I really want Werth on this team.
Do you think we can get both?
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Yeah, I think Werth is very likely.
This didn’t change anything re: the outfield.
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Werth may be more likely and a better fit,
but I’m sure they want Crawford instead.
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by BoldandBrash on Dec 4, 2010 8:52 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
we would be very lefty heavy with Crawford
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+1
Crawford is the better player. But Werth is the better fit.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 4, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
+1
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 4, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
110% no crawford
the dude cant hit lefties. Drew, Ortiz and Gonzo all have pretty bad lefty splits allready. I want crawford nowhere near this team now.
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 8:54 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with both of you.
Just saying, there have been rumors and actual action that shows the FO is all over Crawford. It seems like so much more than just kicking tires.
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by BoldandBrash on Dec 4, 2010 8:58 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
well maybe before
Ellsbury, Drew, Crawford, Gonzalez, Ortiz thats way too much lefties, since they all have bad bad splits on top of that. So thats pretty dumb especially since the Yankees wil get Lee.
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 9:01 AM EST up reply actions
Well, they just met with Crawford, and are reported as being "serious".
I agree with you. I just don’t understand why they want Crawford.
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I don't see Drew as being an issue.
I just can’t imagine Cameron doesn’t platoon with him. It’s too perfect a fit.
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so it would be like this:
VS LHP:
Werth
Ells
Cameron (lf)
VS RHP
Drew
Ells
Werth (lf)
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Not sure if they'd move Werth around, but yes.
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wow what a wet dream
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Got this off the Padres site if it is true then it is a HUGE haul for them
There has to be an extension or there is no way Theo would give this up
Got this from the Padres site – fans there are getting excited over the prospects
As reports fly that Jed Hoyer is closing in on a trade that would send Adrian Gonzalez to the Red Sox, we want to give you some insight on some of the potential players that will likely be part of the Padres organization if the trade is completed.
Casey Kelly Portland Starting Pitcher
Age: 21
Born: October 4, 1989
Sarasota, FL
Height: 6-3
Weight: 200
Bats: Right
Throws: Right
Drafted: 1st round, 2008
ETA: Late 2011
Scouting Report: Athletic frame, advanced beyond his years, he has natural instinctive feel for pitching. Kelly has three plus pitches: a low 90s fastball, he can work it to both sides of the plate, cutting it or sinking his fastball. He has hard 12-6 curveball, and an above average change which he throws with the same arm motion as his fastball. He has demonstrated excellent command and control. Repeats his mechanics with effortless delivery. Fastball has exceptional downward movement, and generally sits between 90 and 93 mph, has touched 95-96 mph. Curveball has the potential to become plus out pitch. It sits around 75-78 mph, but he can rely too heavily on it which can get him into trouble. Kelly’s changeup sits around 83 mph with a lot of tilt. he is a strike thrower and will keep pitching coaches happy, keeping the ball low in the strike zone. Has demonstrated excellent composure. He is projected to be a top of the rotation starter, has legit ace potential.
Anthoney Rizzo 1B
Age: 21
Born: August 8, 1989
Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Height: 6-3
Weight: 220
Bats: Left
Throws: Left
Drafted: 6th round, 2007
ETA: Late 2011
Scouting report: Scouting Report: A towering strong first baseman with an excellent frame. Solid overall approach at the plate, solid pitch recognition, good bat speed. Needs to be more selective with two strikes. Doubles power but should project 20 homer power. Has a tendency to chase breaking pitches late in the count. A plus defender with a strong arm and surprising mobility for his size. Great baseball fundamentals.
Ryan Kalish Outfield
Age: 22
Born: March 28, 1988
Northridge, CA
Height: 6-0
Weight: 200
Bats: Left
Throws: Left
Drafted: 9th round, 2006
ETA: 2011
Scouting Report: Ryan is very athletic with a solid build, good bat speed and lots of quickness. Plays the game hard. Selective hitter, has come to demonstrate an excellent approach at the plate. Average power, has potential to hit 20 Homer’s on the MLB level. Is a contact line drive hitter that sprays the ball to all fields. A base runner that will steal plenty of bases who has plus speed. Has exceptional acceleration and great instincts on the base paths. In the field he judges the ball well off the bat, has an average arm and is capable of playing center field but is probably more suited to play right field. A hard nosed ballplayer that will become a fan favorite for his all out hustle.
Jose Iglesias Shortstop
Age: 20
Born: January 5, 1990
Havana, Cuba
Height: 5-11
Weight: 175
Bats: Right
Throws: Right
ETA: Late 2011
Scouting Report: A great defender. His glovework is accompanied by swift quick hands and excellent reactions. Very strong arm. Range is solid to slightly above average. Great feel for the game and demonstrates fluid mechanics enabling him to excel defensively.
Has the makings of a Gold Glove shortstop. Versatile enough to easily play second or third. Exceptional bat speed. Compact swing. Can be a free swinger. Solid mechanics enabling him to swing through the zone very well. Relatively small, he posses some power. Projecting doubles pop. Defense first short stop. Scouts rave about his athletic defensive ability.
I cannot help but thinking about Bagwell in all this!!!
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
Though that just looks like a "here are the 4 biggest name Red Sox prospects we could find" thing.
Wouldn’t read too much into it.
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Well, I am sure there are other offers out there
I imagine Theo took the DiceK sealed bid approach – go so big early nobody else compares. The good news is in 4-5 months he should be playing…he is a deal this year at 6.5 million
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
I expect he costs a lot more this year by the time things are done.
Sox might try and backload the contract some so that he’s never quite so large a percentage of payroll as all that.
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I don't wanna lose Kalish, but I think that is a fair trade otherwise.
Kelly is obviously the big trade chip and Rizzo is our top hitting prospect right now. I am not a believer in Iglesias (because of his bat) and he will have more value to a pro-defense environment than he will in Boston and the AL East. Only Kalish will be ready to help the team next year and while Kelly and Rizzo could be star players, they are still far enough away from the majors to be anywhere near sure things. I would prefer Kalish be replaced by Reddick and then I don’t mind this deal that much.
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by Mattsullivan on Dec 4, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly!
We were trying to just lay out potential candidates. Thanks for the love and enjoy the 2011 MVP
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not all of them though
Just the most likely 4
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 8:53 AM EST up reply actions
Yup
But, Sox keep Lowrie, Bard and Ellsbury so adding Werth would be logical and I am sure his agent knows this too
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
i would rather crawford then werth
i dont know why it might just be me but i think werth is a bit overrated .
More of the other way around!
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I'd love Crawford
If he’d play Center. He’d just have so much of his value wasted in left.
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Crawford would be horrible on this team now.
Cliff Lee and CC would prolly never loose against us.
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 8:58 AM EST up reply actions
how on earth can they sign Crawford and extend AGonz
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Agon is makin 6M this year
next year Drew, Ortiz, Cameron and maybe Paps and Scut are gone.
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 9:02 AM EST up reply actions
He has to be getting a raise this year in any extension though right
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The math
Before the last few days, $112 million
+2 for Tek
+11 for Papelbon
= $125 million
+20 for Gonzalez (that’s a very high estimate)
+18 for Crawford (ditto)
=$163 million
+15 for misc. bullpen
=$178 million (conveniently, the salary cap)
Am I missing something? Probably. But not much.
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Wow I am so excited right now
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I don't think so, but here's a chart if you
or anybody wants to look at it. http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tz8qHiYrIzlFtVnly7gibjw&output=html
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If hes extended it wont kick in til 2012, hes signed for this year for only 6.3 mil, last year of his contract plus the incentives yhat kicked in, no arb and an extension will be set to take affect next year.
by MO'toole on Dec 4, 2010 9:30 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I can't imagine any extension doesn't include an immediate bump for this year
In exchange for lower numbers throughout. They almost always do. But maybe the Sox really want to go crazy for 2011.
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probably not a $14-15 million immediate bump though
maybe it is, but that would surprise me. I’d guess maybe like $5 million this year or so.
They might try and backload the
Gonzalez deal a little for 2011 to avoid the cap and take advantage of the Drew money rolling off. You also have Cameron’s $ coming off at the end of this year too.
No, he means backload.
Keep money low this year, higher next year. I think this is assuming that Gonzo’s extension includes a big pay bump this year, which is often the case
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
Yep
But just budget-wise, the Sox might want to stick closer to $170 or so on the year regardless of the luxury tax. After all, unless they’re going over it by a significant amount, it’s a negligible tax to pay.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
it's no NBA salary cap
but 40% is a decent amount. Not a prohibitive amount though. Yeah budget-wise, that’s probably about where they want to be. Just saying it won’t actually affect the cap.
It's only 40% on every dollar over, though.
So it’s not something they have to specifically avoid unless they’re looking to go significantly over in the future and want to get the % down.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
it'll be interesting to see how next year is handled
as the CBA expires next December. IIRC, last time they renegotiated, all the teams dropped back to the starting point as far as luxury tax (so 20%). It may be higher next year, it may cease to exist, there may be something entirely different (I’m guessing probably it will be higher).
But those are kind of just unrelated thoughts. Yes, you are correct.
Great piece
but it still makes sense even on an average basis to backload the deal.
i dont want to give up kalish either or lowrie
i am a big jed lowrie fan if he could stay healthy i think he could be the opening day ss next year if we trade scutaro.
Yes, losing Kalish hurts a bit
but I still like it. I don’t shed a tear for Kelly, Rizzo, et. all as they are unproven prospects and a couple of years away. Kalish looks like MLB ready. Oh well. so it hurts a bit.
Two things
(1) Not an official Padres site.
(2) Just the big names rumored in connection with the deal.
My guess is it might be Rizzo + Kelly + Iglesias.
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
The number is supposed to be four so you just mentioned 3 of the 4
The Padres want to restock the FARM NOW so this does make sense – they know are system we wont pull the wool over their eyes
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
There is no real number flying around.
All we’ve heard is “no major league players”
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mlbtr says
one major league ready though who might that be?
Kalish?
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 8:57 AM EST up reply actions
gotta give to get though
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yeah and Agon is only 28 so he has his prime ahead of him
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
If the deal is really
Kelly, Iglesias, Rizzo and Kalish. The deal is extremly bad. I highly doubt it is though.
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 9:03 AM EST up reply actions
I disagree, but that's life
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For a one year rental on a guy
who has bad lefty splits in a division where every Ace is a lefty? Where the Yanks will also add the best lefty in the game by next season? The guy who just had shoulder surgery?
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 9:07 AM EST up reply actions
In fact, he was better against lefties last year than righties.
Go figure.
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It's not like it came from BABIP
His BB:K was great vs. lefties, he’s been an improving player in general, etc.
I’m willing to buy into last year’s results against them, yes.
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He actually hit lefties very well last year
plus his low salary allows for more to be had this year
Ortiz comes off the books in 2012 so that helps offset his contract value from 2012 and beyond
No way this happens without an extension
Theo would not pull the trigger unless A-Gon extends. And, as Ben mentioned A-Gon wants to come to Fenway I guess he has seen the spray charts too
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
Yeah, he'll get extended.
He wants to be here, and the Sox have no illusions about how much he’d cost. Unless he comes out demanding a ridiculous $23 million salary, it’ll get done.
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with Drew coming off next year, I'm ok with that
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Drew, Cameron, Ortiz, Papelbon
Of course, that’s just about $45 million, and I imagine some of that goes to long-term deals for our arbitration eligibles (Buchholz and Lowrie both enter year one after ’11)
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Around, yeah
With a bump this year taking some of that away. I could see something like 16, 16, 18, 18, 20, 20, etc.
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ESPN, Olney reporting Sox have a negotiting window
If Theo pulls off a trade and an extension -———————WOW!
He's not pulling off one without the other.
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I think, for both sides, Iglesias makes more sense
we have Lowrie who has (IMO) more promise, and they have a pretty full outfield and no good middle infielders (unless they have someone I’m missing)
That and also Kalish has already had his major league clock start
So he’s of slightly less long term value. Besides, signs (and fans) point to the Padres wanting infielders more.
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this is recent
7:39pm: Olney tweets that the Red Sox flew Gonzalez into Boston to help move the process along, and he is there now.
6:30am: Adrian Gonzalez is expected in Boston today for a physical, reports Nick Cafardo of the Globe. Gonzalez had shoulder surgery to clean up his right labrum in October and has a four or five month recovery timeline. Cafardo says talks have centered around Casey Kelly and Anthony Rizzo, and the deal “would likely involve three or four players from the Sox, including one who is major league-ready.” ESPN’s Buster Olney says that all players have been agreed to and the Red Sox are now trying to work out an extension with Gonzalez. MLB has approved a negotiating window.
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
If Youk cannot cut it at 3B does he become a DH next year?
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others say that is A-Gon's fate cuz Youk is better I dunno
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
He'd have to, I guess
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by BoldandBrash on Dec 4, 2010 9:00 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
either way, we are sitting pretty
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The lineup is impressive and infusing Lowrie and Ellsbury in there will be nice
I imagine they get more pitches to look at
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
Youk is a better 1B than Adrian.
Who could be the DH for a while, trading time.
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adrian is a 2 time
gold glover and youk will be solid at 3b maybe even gg
The GG is worthless
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exactly
Jeter won five of ’em, and he was never a good defensive SS.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 4, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
Gold gloves don't mean much.
He’s an average defender. Youkilis plays 1B like nobody’s business, but is really only about average at third recently.
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I agree
but I also sorta think that Youk is the kind of player that if we just plant him at 3rd and leave him there, will take it as a challenge to become just as awesome there.
Youk just strikes me as sort of ‘Kevin Garnett’ about his craft – intense and driven.
I'm so happy
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Really?
It’s hard to tell
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 4, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Ortiz this morning:
“dang, that’s why I did not get an extension isn’t it”
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I'm a little ticked that we know the deal is done
but not who the sox are sending
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by BoldandBrash on Dec 4, 2010 9:01 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Gonzalez is going to rip in Fenway
Checking his home/away splits he’s basically a 1.000 OPS player on he road
OTM has never seen so much morning action
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this is like a gamethread in Decemeber
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
Ha yes and no negativity
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Well there is some of that too we would not be Sox fans without it
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
My prediction:
Kelly
Iglesias
Doubront
Rizzo
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Would be nice to keep Kalish
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
I'm ok with losing Igelsias
With Lowrie at the ML level and Cecchini/Coyle behind. Plus I do not think Iglesias’ bat will be anything
Agreed
Between Cecchini/Coyle/Vitek, we’ve probably got a decent 3B option down the road too.
Last year’s draft really made this possible I figure.
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Yeah Lowrie should slot at SS the only question is Youk after 2011 if he stays at 3B
I think we have seen the last year of Big Father
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
He'll be fine for 1 year
Then we can look at the 3B market next off-season. This year’s 3B depth sucked
next year's FA 3B depth doesn't look great either.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/03/2012-mlb-free-agents.html
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In all actuallity, though, 2013
Nicely coinciding with Youk’s departure IIRC. Not that I’m saying anything.
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There's always the trade market
As long as we’re talking to Hoyer… Chase Headley’s looking awful purdy.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
I meant in 2012.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Ehhh, he's an average to slightly below average hitter away from Petco.
And where would he even play?
Youk’s at 3B.
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by Frederick0220 on Dec 4, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
He's been getting better every year since he came up
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Not Iglesias
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 9:48 AM EST up reply actions
I'd prefer to not lose both Kelly AND Doubront
But I don’t want to lose Kalish either.
In theory, if Lackey and Beckett rebound at all, we should still have starter depth (Lester, Buch, Dice-K, etc.), though so we should be okay long enough to rebuild prospects if we lose both Kelly and Doubront.
WIth Lowrie, we can definitely afford to lose Iglesias – even though he screams “Second Coming of Omar Visquel!!!!!” at me. Lowrie has such a better bat and is ready NOW.
Rizzo is obvious.
Even if we sign Werth or Crawford, we likely will need at least one or two OF prospects to bloom so I would prefer to keep Kalish.
So, yeah, this makes sense if it has to be 4 players.
So are DiceK, Papelbon, Scutaro
all still on the table for other needs?
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Yes, yes, and assuming Lowrie wasn't traded.
That’d be my guess.
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Ben, I can't believe you said that - you started the Lowrie fan club don't break my hear now
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
What do you mean?
I’m just saying it’s a possibility. Believe me, I’m the first one hoping he’s staying put right where he is, but that “one major league player” rumor has me sweating. It’s to the point where I’m honestly hoping Doubront or Kalish is gone over him.
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"Major-league ready"
Lowrie isn’t as attractive to the Padres because he should be eligible for arbitration next year, right?
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
And why the frak don't they mention who the MLB player is
If there’s one involved?
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
News leaks slow.
We don’t even know for sure about Kelly and Rizzo.
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Yeah
I have a feeling we’ll know of the extension before we know who’s in it.
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Correct
But it’s just year one. 4 years of team control, 2-3 fairly cheap is still nice.
Kalish would be more likely though.
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I'm just busting your chops - I know where you stand on him
Doubront sounds great to me and since Sandy said it I believe it.
After next year Kalish in RF? If Theo kept him = happy happy
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
Although Kalish is a lefty so he could be gone...just sayin
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
I'd say most likely because I think Kalish's D is now better than Werth.
However, a possibility is Ells in LF, Kalish in CF, and Werth in RF. And maybe Ells gets traded or something. He almost got traded at the deadline.
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I actually prefer keeping Ells now
since we will get Agonz without him
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I'm cool with him
because we don’t have anyone in the minors who is about to be better. Maybe Reddick, but I need to see more of him.
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Screw it, go all out.
Trade Ells with everyone left for Upton.
(Don’t really do this)
(Maybe)
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Wow that would kill the farm
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The thought crossed my mind too
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
werth in RF
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Again, there's no signs that MLB talent has been traded.
And by that reckoning, technically Kalish isn’t MLB-ready . . . .
(crosses fingers, starts hunting rabbits to find feet)
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
Start making the #23 jerseys and shirts because those will be flying off the shelves.
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Maybe Gonzo wants a new number in Boston?
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
Meanwhile, back in the Alley the faithful wonder how large and long their SS contract will be
not to mention how deep the hole is between Short and 3rd – rumor has it they may shift Gardner in to cover the area
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
I read something that said 3/51
I’m OK with them paying him 17 per year. Maybe the contract will get up to 19 per year.
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Plus an option year.
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
Let's be honest
He’ll be a poor-hitting, poor-fielding LF for most of it.
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I think it's more likely Jeter to third, A-Rod to DH.
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I predict the MFY trade for Upton now
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Yeah, it'd have to be an inherent overpay.
Gardner + Montero to start.
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And you just know they'll never get equal value on Gardner.
Hard to find a more underrated player in the majors.
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But his batting average is under .300!!!!!
/BBS’d
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
+1
Found this on WEEI mentions same four from the Padres fans site (based on Padres FO with high regard for these guys)
It is not yet known which prospects — or how many prospects — the Sox are parting with. However, one source on Friday night said that he found it hard to imagine a deal getting done without top Boston prospect Casey Kelly. The Padres, who have a number of former Red Sox executives in their front office (GM Jed Hoyer, Assistant GM Jason McLeod, VP of Baseball Operations Josh Byrnes) are known to regard players such as first baseman Anthony Rizzo, shortstop Jose Iglesias and outfielder Ryan Kalish.
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
So those are players they like.
Doesn’t say anything about a deal.
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
Yeah, I know I was just trying to find out what the Padres fans were basing it off
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
They simply sign Lee
countered the move completly and then some.
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
Not really
Gonzo is more of a sure thing than Old Man Lee.
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I mean, his shoulder might make him less of a sure thing than Lee.
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Twitter: @BoldandBrash
Maybe this year
But Lee is older, has some decent injury history, and God help them if he goes out to eat with CC.
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LOL and Lee's knee troubles are just beginning due to the monster appetite of his
can anyone say DAVID WELLS?
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
I meant CC's knees
not Lee’s
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
They don't have the bullpen prospects
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 9:44 AM EST up reply actions
I just wonder
it seems like the majority of people here were against trading for Agon this year. But now that its done everybody is extremly happy?
Dont get me wrong Agon is an extremly good player, but in reality we just traded for a one year rental. We would have signed him anyway next year. I wait till the price is clear. If the package is bigger than Kelly, Rizzo and Iglesias I dont like it.
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 9:33 AM EST reply actions
If the deal had included Ellsbury and Bard
Plus the prospects being given up, I think the tune would be different than it is now.
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
It beats overpaying for Beltre and Martinez
and we get picks to replace the guys we are giving up-who are blocked anyhow.
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I hope they don't sign Beltre or Crawford for the pick reason,
but also I want to go laugh at them on their blog. Because they thought they would for sure sign Beltre, Crawford, and make a run at Lee.
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Twitter: @BoldandBrash
I posted this in the other thread,
but since i feel this is true i will copy it here again.
I think you all get way to excited.
Even with Agon at First, Youk at 3b, Lowrie at SS and healthy season out of all of them our infield would still create less total WAR than last Season. My Math behind this:
2010: C Vmart+Tek 4.7 WAR (includes Vmart 1B WAR), 3B Beltre 7.1 WAR, SS Scutaro 2.1 WAR, 2B Pedroia + Lowrie 5.1, 1B Youk 4.2 WAR i even leave out Hall + others who played some games in in IF
2010 Total Infield WAR: 23.2
2011 MY Own Projections: C Sal/Tek 1 WAR, 3B Youk 5.5 WAR, SS Lowrie 3.5 WAR, 2B: Pedroia 5.5 WAR, 1B Agon 6 WAR
2011 Total Infield WAR: 21.5
Whats the whole point? The Dropoff at Catcher with Sal/Tek compared to Vmart will be gigantic. On top of that realistically there will also be a drop in 3B production since neither Youk nor Beltre (if resigned) would put up 7.1 WAR in ’11.
The solution to the problem: GET A FREAKING CATCHER!!!! I think Martin would atleast be a 3 WAR catcher with upside. Salty and Tek are simply corpses. So for roughly 5M more we can buy maybe 2 WAR, thats a pretty decent price.
So we basically need to pick up all these wins in the OF and Bullpen.
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 9:37 AM EST up reply actions
Dude, you're a little obesessed with WAR I have noticed.
WAR can be a finicky stat at times.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
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And I mean that in a completely teasing sort of way. :-P
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I'am really obsessed though ^^
One stat to rule them all. ;)
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 9:43 AM EST up reply actions
First off, I wish we could stop citing VMart's WAR as if it were anything more than wOBA
Anyone who doesn’t think his numbers aren’t saved by the lack of catcher defense valuations is crazy. It may not even be a total of a win, but it’s definitely more than the -2.1 runs credited him.
Second, you’re comparing an infield with a 7.1 WAR Beltre career year to any normal year’s infield. The fact is we weren’t getting that 7.1 WAR back. This is recouping almost all of that.
Third, I expect Tek and Salty will come in over 1 if we are ignoring defense. The boost you get from even being a non-black hole at that position is unreal.
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Sure Beltre isn't a 7 WAR player. But he's easily a 4 WAR player
As for Tek/Salty not being a black hole defensively, that’s far from certain. Chances are, Salty will be worse than VMart behind the plate next year.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 4, 2010 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
Shouldn't be too hard
(a) There wqas likely to be some drop-off in the IF even if Beltre was signed – I could not see him reproducing a 7 WAR again.
(b) OF is bound to be better (it wasa total of ~4 last year)
© and the fact that our SP past Lester/Buchholz wont likely suck as bad
Basically - the outfield and bullpen is where we were let down in 2010
Figure a season of Ellsbury, bounce back from Drew, healthier Cameron and Werth and you are looking at a 4.0 WAR swing to something like 12.0
i agree the OF is where we can really make some ground
so we need to get Werth.
BUT everybody always expects all players to be healthy, lets be real 1-2 of our starting players will likely have a DL trip maybe even a longer one.
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 9:48 AM EST up reply actions
But even then it can't be anything like last year
Especially if you consider Beckett an injury loss.
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Martin produces 3 WAR?
That is very optimistic, he has not done that in over two years and will be recovering from an injury. Also, by not including the other fill-in players you have ignored the negative WARs entirely. I would expect an infield of AGon, Youk, Pedey, Lowrie and the Tek/Salty platoon to produce as much or more offense and see a downgrade defensively at third and equal or better defense everywhere else. Catcher will not be as productive and it is unreasonable to expect any player to put up 7.1 WAR like Beltre did, but the upgrade from Lowrie and AGon and full seasons of Youk and Pedey will balance that out. The outfield is where we really need help, since the only player to produce any positive value is gone after 2011.
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by Mattsullivan on Dec 4, 2010 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
I think everyone feared Clay Buchholz, possibly Daniel Bard going over.
Add that Kelly is off a down year, Rizzo’s OBP was in the 330 area, and Iglesias couldn’t hit, and it’s trading three areas of concern for one area of “Holy crap this guy can hit.”
Mixed emotions, God knows.
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as said pleased with
Kelly, Rizzo and Iglesias. more than that not so much.
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 9:38 AM EST up reply actions
I think it helped us a lot
that he is coming off surgery and can’t swing a bat for two months. It probably brought his value down, at least a bit. Add in that he’s only signed for one more year and it was just the right time.
hemmingway said there were only 3 sports
1 bull fighting
2 boxing
3 car racing (nascar)
everything else were games
i’m just saying
well hemingway was a great writer,
but how is that relevant?
We did just trade for a one year rental,
but we are pretty much for sure getting an extension. And it is like paying twice. However, the little kid inside of me is pumped to go see him play this year.
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Twitter: @BoldandBrash
Well - one year and exclusive negotation rights
i.e. you are not fighting the market to sign A-Gon. Who is to say a Texas with its new revenue wouldn’t be in the game to drive up his price in 2012?
If no extension is signed, no deal is made.
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Which means the club has more leverage
Than it would in the open market in 2012. If Gonzalez really wants out of SD
After the surgery, I expect he's amenable anyway.
Stuff like that can put the fear of God into a player regardless of severity.
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Yeah
That’s what I meant by “for sure getting an extension”
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Twitter: @BoldandBrash
Well, I hoped for Beltre and Upton
But, since it did not happen I have to move on and see how this will work. I am concerned about the lefty factor but A-Gon is a great deal esp. if Lowrie, bard and Ells stay I can live with it. This is not what I expected but so be it.
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
If we back this trade up with Werth
this is awesome. The difference between Werth and Crawford is massive in regards to hittin Leftys: Werth .401 career wOBA, Crawford .307 career wOBA.
What i’m saying: back this trade up with werth and i’ll be very happy.
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 9:40 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, that is the position to take and it makes sense to me Crawford probably wont happen
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
Why would they sign him? Where would they put him?
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Between SS and 3rd
(wait that is softball)
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
Don't really know
and he makes even less sense for them
So they are probably trying to drive the price up for the Sox
and he’ll land in LA for more money than they wanted to pay him
Yup LAA will get him and his buddy there is pressing him to come
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
And us Red Sox fans will have a hearty chuckle with the Yankee fans before we realize what we're doing and all get really angry at eachother.
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karma is a byotch just ask Earl
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
I think...
… that the people who were unhappy were unhappy in the context of a theoretical argument with other fans about what the Sox should do. Now that the Sox have actually done it, there’s less room to be upset because its not one fan’s theories on team-building versus another’s.
Also, happy because we get to keep Bard and either Kalish or Lowrie (maybe both), plus we’ll be negotiating an extension with him.
Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 4, 2010 9:50 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
“him” = AGon
Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 4, 2010 9:51 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
this isnt a rental
if they dont extend him the trade is off
This is the trade I wanted Theo to make for 2 years now
But I agree most on this board either thought A-Gon would cost to much in prospects or wanted some other options to happen.
We don't get him for this package last year.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
How much of a discount has there been because of the surgery?
You would think that would explain why there isn’t as much talk of the major league talent, right?
And also why it seems to be 3-4 prospects, and not 5-6. . . .
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
Good Point
Though with the medical due diligence that Theo & Co. do, I severely doubt the surgery really was a concern. Negotiation tactics from their end and the Padres caved in that aspect.
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The risk for taking him increased, though.
If there was no question about Gonzalez’s ability, the asking price surely could have been a bit higher.
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
Maybe
They’re limited in who can trade for him though by that massive contract, and Jed Hoyer does NOT want to be the guy holding onto Roy Halladay until the last minute, basically.
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Certainly
Though do we know for sure who is going to SD?
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I put this on the other thread it is the Padres FO weighing in on their growth strategy
This would confirm Hoyer’s desire to replenish the FARM http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101203&content_id=16251206&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlbHoyer, from his Boston days, knows the Red Sox farm system, as does Jason McLeod, who is the Padres assistant general manager of scouting and player development. McLeod was previously the Red Sox’s director of amateur scouting.
Since the Padres farm system is devoid of Major League-ready talent, the influx of talent from another club would help the Padres to essentially graduate what Hoyer wants, a handful of players moving up to the Major League level each year.
"We have to have a farm system that’s turning out two to three players from year to year," Hoyer said in October. "We’re not going to have that for next year. That’s a priority."
The way the Padres want to accomplish that is through the First-Year Player Draft. But that takes time. Making a deal to land prospects for Gonzalez would hasten the process.
In regards to Gonzalez’s future, it’s essentially been a foregone conclusion since the end of the regular season that Gonzalez would be traded sometime before or during the 2011 season and that he wants to test his worth on the open market as a free agent.
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
No no no
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 9:43 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think that's happening anymore.
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Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
I don't think it was ever happening.
some guy said that he could be in it, but I don’t think he was ever actually discussed.
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Twitter: @BoldandBrash
Bell is out
And a good thing, too. The Bard-for-Bell stuff would have been to give the Padres bonus value.
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Heard this on ESPN Radio Early this Morning
Almost drove off the road with “Jeterian” fist pumping. :-P
So once this is done and such, time to apply the full court press to sign him to an extension. Because if that doesn’t happen…hoo boy, let the riots ensue.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
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It's not a concern of mine really.
I think it gets done immediately, whether we hear about it or not.
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Yeah
This seems for real this time.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
Certainly a concern, IMHO man!
I mean a one-year rental for prospects that were highly touted? What, did the team suddenly turn into the Brewers or something? The money is there for sure. The “Mark Teixera” deal looms over ownership’s head, and they know they need to nail down a deal.
The business aspect of that type of deal simply cannot be ignored.
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MLB has granted them access
to negotiate with AGonz.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 9:49 AM EST up reply actions
Ah...missed that
Any link/news article to that?
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The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
Or Did I Not Hear That Part on ESPN Radio?
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
NVM
I can’t read apparently.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
I mean it's not a concern because it will get done.
They have a window, and if there’s no deal, than the trade is nixed. But it’ll get done, because the Sox knew what it would take and Gonzo wants to be here.
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Well with our great draft machine and depth
Losing 2-3 prospects shouldn’t really hurt us as much as other clubs.
Yeah, the injuries weren't limited to the majors, were they?
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
-1
Tazawa has some of the worst stuff I have seen in my entire life.
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by Frederick0220 on Dec 4, 2010 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
I kinda agree with this
Tazawa doesn’t excite me at all.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 4, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
Man
We have a great farm system.
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"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson
by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
I mean other than the few prospects that make the major league club
the next purpose is to improve the team via trade
You should call the Steinbrenners
They’ll probably pay you like $51MM over the next three years for fist-pumping.
Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 4, 2010 9:54 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I did.
Hank just laughed at me. :(
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
I do not want to give up Kalish.
But this was a good think to wake up to :)
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"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson
Certainly Wouldn't Want to Give Up Kalish
He’s close to pretty much being MLB ready if he didn’t prove that last season.
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I really do not want to give him up.
Might’ve given up Ells instead.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 9:47 AM EST up reply actions
Perfect rest of the Hot Stove season:
Sign Werth
Sign Downs
Sign Martin
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 9:54 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
Now THAT
Would make my year.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
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That would be great though I think I just lost Bob's contest with this signing
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
Good with me
Especially Werth.
They still need a RHH.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
+1
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 4, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
Sign Werth
Sign Downs
Trade for SOTO.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Heyman said he's heard Kelly is indeed in the deal,
but we already knew that.
embrace the martian
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
I actually just wrote his updated prospect profile for voting the other day.
Sad.
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Sad then take a look at the spray chart that is superimposed over Fenway and I think you will adjust
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
OT: where to find these spraycharts? i'm looking for one for Werth
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
thank you
not as taylor made for fenway as Agon then.
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
Some Phils fans say he is not worth his Werth outside of homefield
I cannot remember the numbers but they are not overly excited at his road splits say he is one dimensional and made for Philly
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
Well Fenway is a good hitters park too
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
True and he can pull it to right field also so the Little League RF in Yankee stadium will help
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
He's a righty
So pulling it means hitting to left field- something he can do with great success at fenway.
The puns alone might be a dealbreaker.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
I used to call him
Werthless, and thought I was so clever.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
To my comment? If so, I am serious that spray chart got me thinking
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
Matter of fact, though I appreciate the Saber stuff I prefer the charts
Why? A picture is worth a thousand words
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
That was a given.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
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Overheard at Theo Epstein's house next Pesach
The youngest child asks: “Why is this deal different from all other deals?”
Theo answers: “Because we gave away our top pitching prospect.”
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
Not that I would ever set my proverbial online foot over there
but the Globe, Herald blogs have to be going NUTSO!
Is it wrong that I'm still wondering why the hell we dropped Taylor Buchholz while all this is going on?
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
Though I might head over there just to see some actual love for Theo.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
This is a day to rejoice the kingdom is yours and there are always more calves to slaughter
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
Yeah
I woke upand heard this.
Merry Christmas!
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"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson
by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
Speier says none of the prospects have heard anything yet, so yeah, slow.
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Happy Holidays!
Welcome to Boston, Adrian! I’m 5 minutes from Fenway, any word on whether he’s there?
He's in Boston. Probably with the docs.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
If he wants to see some of the great culture of Boston
I’ll be happy to give him a personal tour of my museum.
Your museum to him in your basement?
We just got the guy. Don’t scare him off so soon.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
Fair enough
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
Even better
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 4, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
LOL does he make peanut butter Teradactiles there too?
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
I am slightly sad
That Rizzo is gone :( He signed a baseball for me.
Adrian Gonzalez owes me in Spring Training.
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"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson
Rizzo signed my weiner this one time in the away team's clubhouse.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 4, 2010 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
Fredrick
Doesn’t like me much.
Just ignore him.
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"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson
by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
What?
I have nothing against you, Marisa.
I just make immature jokes sometimes and also disagree with some things you say.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 4, 2010 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
OK
You just say weird things to me a lot.
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"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson
by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
You probably think I don't like you very much
Also false, just like to debate, never forget that.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
For everyone bemoaning the FO over the past few weeks
Theo wants you to tell him how his @$$ tastes.
by The Herndon Kid on Dec 4, 2010 10:08 AM EST via mobile reply actions
So, just to talk worst-case scenario
That we’re minus Kalish, Rizzo, Kelly, and Iglesias…
We still have:
Ranaudo
Britton
Pimentel
Tazawa
Doubront
as top pitchers.
Without Westmoreland, the hitting is much more questionable, but with a ton of upside out of last year’s draft between Vitek, Coyle, and Cecchini. To say nothing of all the possible breakout guys like Jacobs, Brentz, Ramos, etc.
And I still think Navarro is hugely underrated.
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It sucks that the Upton deal is completely dead-and-buried
But I’ll take solace in watching Carl Crawford revolutionize playing the Monster.
You mean you'll take solace in watching Werth
use his right-handed power to bang balls off the Monster.
(I’m pretty sure that’s what you meant to say, right? Hee hee …)
You forgot Middlebrooks
Still a nice farm system.
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"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson
by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
Lavarnway
Is now my favorite prospect.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
Tejada...Eh
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
Not a Tejeda person
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
Tejeda can poke, son.
Do not sleep on Oscar.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 4, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
Middlebrooks is an enigma.
Per the profiles:
It was kind of a one step forward, one step back year for Will Middlebrooks. He started out on fire, but had some significant regression to the mean as he kept on striking out and stopped drawing walks. Right now Middlebrooks is a huge enigma—consistently inconsistent, and while never putting up truly bad numbers, also not really performing up to the standards his draft stock and occasional outbursts set for him. The word on his fielding is decidedly mixed, with all sides only agreeing on his plus infield arm.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
Eh
I like Reddick, but I’m not sold on him.
Oh, WHAT ABOUT LARS????
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"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson
by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
Knew he wouldn't
And I’ve said it all along.
Someone needs some credit.
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"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson
by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
You're only on record for saying it since his 2009 season that I can recall.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
When you see a guy enough....
I should be listend to more.
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"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson
by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
But it's not like you were calling him out during his productive top-prospect '08.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
To be honest
1. I was not here at OTM in 2008, so you wouldn’t know.
2. 2008 was the first year I started following baseball and had no clue who Lars was.
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"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson
by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
So you started following baseball in 08,
and after one year you had the wisdom to determine that a AA prospect for the Red Sox would not pan out as many scouts thought he would?
Yes
And I was right, wasn’t I?
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"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson
by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
You didn't know who Lars was in '08
You called it in ’09 when he was playing poorly?
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, and I was right
That is all that matters.
And I must say, I do pretty good for a relitivly “new” follower.
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"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson
by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
You haven't been proven right yet you realize?
He’s actually improved since the point where you said you didn’t like him.
You weren’t making a controversial statement at the time either. The problem people have is that you’re basically saying you called it based on a sub-.700 OPS. Kind of a “big whoop” situation.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
I knew of the season he had
I base this off of not numbers, but his swing and defense when I;ve seen him. Horrible.
And which post are you reffering too? There are so many.
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"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson
by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
but his swing and defense when I;ve seen him. horrible
Could you elaborate?
Twitter | "Almost every organization has a guy like Papelbon or Lester" - Dave Cameron 12/29/2005
He has the worst swing I;ve ever seen
Too many holes. Chases bad pitches low and in, cannot hit lefties, and pulls everything to 2B.
He has dropped four pop ups in the 20 times I;ve seen him.
You have been BBS’d.
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"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson
by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
But, again, you're basing this off of him at his worst.
Go look at guys like Lavarnway, Rizzo, and the like and tell me which of them is going to have trouble. Or why Ranaudo or Doubront isn’t going to make it at the majors. It’s just not an impressive call.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
OK
I’ll tell you some more prospects I am not huge fans of.
Kyle Wieland. Alex Wilson. Luis Exposito.
Lars just come sup more than those guys.
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"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson
by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Because none of those guys are at all sure things.
I mean, Alex Wilson bombed AA, Weiland hasn’t ever been hugely impressive, and Expo, while arguably the closest you get, is still just considered a “solid” guy.
How about a sleeper or something?
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Hmmm
Henry Ramos. I think he is over-rated. Maybe Alex Hassan as well.
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"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson
by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
What year will Aaron Bates make his first ASG?
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 4, 2010 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
/eye roll
We’ll see if he even makes Pawtucket.
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"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson
by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
Not over yet.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
Reddick, Lars, and Lavarnway all had sufficient question marks
for me not to want to put together a top-5 list consisting of only them.
When put up against a group including Ranaudo, Doubront, and Britton, it just looked a bit ugly.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
Lavarnway is now the best hitting prospect.
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"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson
by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
I like Vitek a lot too
But I;ve seen Lavarnway enough and just love him.
After Rizzo, he was my favorite prospect.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
Pure production wise perhaps.
Not if you consider position.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
Westy is the secret Ace
His trade value is obviously zero right now because of the brain surgery.
So he slips for now under the desireability radar of other teams as we make these big deals.
But in reality, his physicals all look good for him to come back at some point down the road.
So in a year or two he pops back up as a stud keeper on our team!
[Okay – I know, I’m an incurable romantic and like to dream …]
Jeeze we have a good farm system.
If he comes back, he instantly becomes my favorite player
I mean, this is bigger than what Lester went through, if he comes back then it just proves Westy’s nails.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Pretty weak crop of pitching prospects.
Ranaudo has major injury concerns and those other guys either haven’t proven much to date (Britton, Pimentel, and Ranaudo) or have underwhelming stuff (everyone else).
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 4, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
jeter deal at hand. may be finalized today. very creative deal for about $16 mil a year. final hurdles include how 4th yr will be treated
Hm…
The Red Sox lock up Adrian Gonzalez, one of the best first basemen in the game, for slightly more per year than Derek Jeter.
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That make me guffaw @ Steinbrenner Co.
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The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
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Seems to me there are not ghosts in the New Yankee stadium but only live relics suiting up
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
Fuentes?
Wow, that deal is awesome. I’m so glad it is not Kalish.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
I love that because I'm not really a Fuentes fan.
He’s like Ells 2.0, which isn’t bad, just not my type of player.
embrace the martian
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Dec 4, 2010 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
Di
tto
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
Neither am I.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 4, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
I'm fine with that no Kalish is great.
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
Thank God.
No Kalish. No Iglesias. No Lowrie.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 4, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Forgot About Fuentes
Since he’s essentially Ells 2.0, why didn’t Hoyer press for Ells?
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
Money
Ells costs it soon. Fuentes doesn’t.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
Dang Forgot
Ells is gonna cost soon…And he’s a Boras client.
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He'll be gone like Papelbon.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
Yep. I like Ells,
But he will be gone at somepoint.
Kalish CF of the future!!!!
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
Gosh if Mo' actually spurned the Yankees...
Now that would have been crazy for a lack of better words.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
Idiot at boston.com
KeithCBS wrote:
MLB needs to investigate the relationship between Theo Epstein and Jed Hoyer and whether Hoyer has the best interests of the Padres in mind or does his loyalties still lie with Boston because this trade should no be allowed by MLB. This is such a lopsided trade that can not be allowed. Making this trade is like giving me a brand new BMW and I give you 3 used Pintos. Something is rotten in Denmark here!
WOW. Words FAIL.
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
Wow really?
Did he miss the fact that the Padres have like NO PAYROLL?!
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
These posts aren't written by people who understand prospects or payrolls.
Their only trade experience comes from Ken Griffey Jr. Presents Major League Baseball on the N64.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
So basically
A bunch of fools.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
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Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
Eh
Casual fans and old-fashioned fans. They’ve got their way of loving the Sox, we have ours.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
It was my favorite too
But man, it didn’t exactly have the most realistic trade system.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
Rizzo, Kelly, Fuentes involved in deal per Padres beat writer.
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Nevermind, I'm late.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
I'd have to think there are more
Or the Red Sox might be arrested for robbery.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
No idea.
Though Rizzo and Kelly keep coming up, so I gather they’re gone.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
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Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
no Iglesias?
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apparently not
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by BoldandBrash on Dec 4, 2010 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
Close enough.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
Those jerseys suck.
Go back to the ones worn in 07
embrace the martian
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by BoldandBrash on Dec 4, 2010 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
As much as I miss the old roadies
These are finally starting to grow on me.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
I like these ones
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
sooooo sexxxy
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 4, 2010 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
So in a Red Sox prospect ranking were would
Kelly, Rizzo and especially Fuentes be ranked?
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 10:22 AM EST reply actions
Kelly and Rizzo would def be top 3 battling for the #1 spot.
embrace the martian
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by BoldandBrash on Dec 4, 2010 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
Top-2
Top-3
And top-20
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
Not including Westy, mind.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
Kelly 1
Rizzo 3 and Fuentes 15.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
So fuentes is a much smaller price than Iglesias
good to know
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
Much, much
- pick a few years ago, but has never grown on me.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
Why is Kelly number 1 in everyones rankings?
just looked over the most simple stats (no peripherals) but his stats at AA and in the limited AFL flat out suck.
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
They do, but
He was the youngest pitcher in his league, tended to get killed by GB BABIP, and this is his first full year pitching. Potential > numbers.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
I actually asked Evan Lepler (Salem's announcer) about his take over twitter:
@BenLBuchanan Iglesias’ year marred by injury, still had decent production in Double-A in first year in the minors. One thing to note (cont)
@BenLBuchanan Padres execs know Sox prospects better than anyone, and minor #‘s always have mixed meaning. Don’t think 2010 #’s huge factor.
@BenLBuchanan It’s an interesting question though and sometimes it’s hard for even a diehard fan to understand how #’s can be so minimized.
Only mentions Iglesias, but I mentioned Kelly too.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
He has awesome stuff
and was the secondest youngest player in AA.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
2 words: His stuff
93 mph fastball that he can commands at both sides of the plate with easy, repeatable and fluid delivery
and a 84 mph change up (he’s killing LHB with it):
5Check how he hide it: pitching poetry!)
And 20 years old? God I’ll miss him!
Twitter | "Almost every organization has a guy like Papelbon or Lester" - Dave Cameron 12/29/2005
why such a disparity between stuff and results?
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
Age, adjustment, possible fatigue.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
if its rizzo kelly and fuentes
that would be the best trade ever. in theo we trust the guy is a genius.
WOW.
Now this was something to wake up to.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
Indeed
Welcome to the party.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah...I seem to be a little behind (350 comments)
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
When I woke up it was 174.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
Potential Batting Orders Anybody?
I can’t really see past the 3-4 spots cause it make me jump for joy.
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OK
Ells, Pedroia, AGonz, Youk, (Werth?), Ortiz, Drew, Salty, Lowrie.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, you are probably right
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
Ells
Dusty
Youk
Gonzo
Ortiz
Werth (hopefully)
Drew
Lowrie
Martin (hopefully)
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by BoldandBrash on Dec 4, 2010 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
My Dream:
1. Lowrie
2. Pedroia
3. Gonzalez
4. Youkilis
5. Ortiz
6. Werth
7. Drew
8. Martin (Tek/Salty)
9 Ellsbury
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
Sweet.
I know Youk’s limited time in LF has been uh… adventurous… but i wonder if he were to focus on it this off-season if he could pull it off.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
Ha, not happening.
He’ll play third, third, third.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
NO
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
Why?
He’d be going to 3B
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
Possibly
Though we honestly can only say that when we see him there on a consistent basis. I assume he’s losing range but maybe not as much as we have thought.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
youk in lf????
why when he is going to be a starting 3rd baseman…
He's also just hated it there
he said something along the lines of-
(paraphrased) I’ll play anywhere in the infield, first, third, catcher, shortstop. Just not the outfield.
I think he'd DH too
Though that’s an assumption.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
Angels still in.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
Ha
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
So, I know you're going to want to kill me...
But what would your reaction be if this happened:
Negotiations between the Red Sox and Adrian Gonzalez have reached an impasse after the Sox apparently offered him only a two year deal citing medicals.
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Please note:
This has not happened. I am making it up.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
DON'T DO THAT!
BAD Ben!
BAD Ben!
Now, go to your room!
But, but...
I’m in my room.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
Go sit in the corner
I’ll be there shortly with the “not funny” sign.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
>:(
DOWN WITH OUR RULER!
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
I Would Stab Something or Somebody
Although rationally, I would want to kick Theo & Co.
STOP MAKING THIS UP BEN.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
So, I have to say I'm pretty shocked by this.
I’m very interested to see the terms of the contract extension….
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
Most Likely
Mark Teixera type contract.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
Unrelated, but:
Ken Rosenthal
Source: #Padres “absolutely” will trade Heath Bell. One yr left in arb, $4M last yr. FA closers avail include Soriano, Jenks. MORE #MLB
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Sorry, Sean
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
Just a puppy is fine.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
we need 3 things to happen and 2011 will be ready to go
1. trade and sign longterm adrian gonzalez
2. rebuild bullpen
3. stay relatively healthy
those 3 things happen this team wins 95 plus games makes playoffs and competes for another world series.
now if we get crawford or werth that would just be icing on the cake and make us the favorites for a title in my opinion.
Werth
needs to happen.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
not a fan of werth
the only thing i like about werth is that he is right handed. i would much rather crawford.
crawford cant hit lefties at all
we need a RHH especially with the Yanks getting Lee. Most of the good pitchers in our devisions are lefties. Werth is cheaper and destroys lefties.
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
werth is older
and the yanks havent got lee yet . i am not a fan of werth never will be and crawford hit .286 vs lefties last year .
Crawford vs lefties:
.256/.312/.384
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
youre right my bad
i looked at the wrong line on baseball reference but i still would rather crawford than werth.
feels like we are robbing them
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At which point Theo will start the fund for Gonzo's contract by robbing every reporter.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
It does
I mean, that;s it? Kelly, Rizzo, Fuentes? There has to be more.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
Nobody's reporting that that's it.
Just brace for the other shoe, y’know?
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
It is only one year of Gonzo,even though we get the negotiating privilege,
but the package does seem thin.
embrace the martian
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Dec 4, 2010 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
That's what's got me wondering...
There’s got to be something more…
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
love it
The certified ambassador of all things good and great, here at OTM.
DO NOT OVERPAY FOR BELTRE !!!
TRADE ELLSBURY THIS WINTER !!!
One of the many, proud OTM'ers that cannot stand Josh Beckett.
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
We all knew we were going to give up Rizzo and Kelly, but the fact that we didn’t have to give up Lowrie, Inglesias, Bard, etc. as the third piece makes me so happy.
Well done Theo. Well done.
Happy birthday to me! Happy birthday to me!
What a b-day present! Adrian Gonzalez to the Sox finally! Now lets sign Crawford or Werth and get a starting catcher.
Happy Birthday Mike-Dub
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
Happy Birthday!
dont bring up crawfords name i cant repeat myself all the time. ;)
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
Prefer Werth Over Crawford
However, I wouldn’t mind either depending on the deal.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
Me too.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 4, 2010 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
No, ME!!!!
He’s MY Birthday Present! Mine!
Okay, you can share him.
@Caseykelly23 Just waking up beautiful day in sarasota about to get some breakfast. Can’t worry about things that are out of your control
I will miss Kelly. Seems like a great guy.
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I will
Miss Rizzo more.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
+1
Rizzo was the bigger fish in my pond. Kelly was all about possibility, Rizzo seemed to be making it happen more.
Yeah
I just like Rizzo.
…. a lot.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
He's got a point.
Sucks though cause he surely seems like a great guy.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
kelly and rizzo
are the real deals i think they are superstars in the making just my opinion.
I agree
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
I love you Casey.
You too, Ant.
Will be following you fellows for years to come.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 4, 2010 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
Tell me, who was it around here who kept saying we'll get A-Gonz, and sooner rather than later?
Hmmm…. thinking… thinking…
Certainly not JUST you. :-P
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
No, of course not, but that was my oft repeated quote: "and sooner rather than later."
I’m just surprised as hell it’s coming true!
LOL I know
Just poking you. :-P
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
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Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
/raises hand
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
Ditto
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
Scouting the Sally points out exactly how I feel on Fuentes
Fuentes is very OK
He continues
Decent line drive stroke and solid range. Suspect power potential, pitch selection, and arm.
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When scouting Fuentes, my first thought was “how was this guy a first rounder?”
Ouch
Please be awesome next year, Renfroe?
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
Hahaha
I think everyone though that.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 4, 2010 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
Oh shit
Speier: Confirmed: Kelly, Rizzo and Fuentes will be the prospects going to San Diego
That sounds like a “final” thing.
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yeah... and?
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
As in "These and only these are the prospects"
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
Yes. It is unvelievable.
Kalish is safe!
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
I'm just saying, if we get out of this with Lowrie, Kalish, and Iglesias still in Boston...
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah that would be a steal.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
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Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
Incredible.
Thank you, Theo!
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 4, 2010 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
Speier Knows His Stuff
I’d take him to be reliable.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
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He's one of my favorites.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
Holy Mother of All One Sided Trades!
Do we really still have Iglesias, Kalish, Doubront, Lowrie ?
Can we still make an Upton deal work and have something left?
Ok guys…. I’m out for now.
So, Merry Christmas! Best gift we could have wished for!
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"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson
Bye Beltre.
Youk and Gonzo corner IN’ers
Will you sign Werth too?
What a possible lineup.
"Individual players don't win championships, teams do."
Yes at Werth.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
Seems likely
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
Ben
can you predict the possible starting lineup?
"Individual players don't win championships, teams do."
My favorite would be:
Lowrie
Pedroia
Youkilis
Gonzalez
Ortiz
Werth
Drew/Cameron (L/R Platoon)
Catcher
Ellsbury
Chances are Ellsbury will hit first, Lowrie 8th, and the catcher 9th though.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
back to back righties and then back to back lefties why not break them up?
Lowrie
Pedroia
Gonzalez
Youkilis
Ortiz
Werth
Drew
Catcher
Ellsbury
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
Whoops, my bad.
Gonna have to get used to this second massive lefty bat.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
I was wondering about Drew/Cam
Salty/ who ever you sign should be good enough to split time at catcher.
"Individual players don't win championships, teams do."
and Scott Downs
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by BoldandBrash on Dec 4, 2010 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
we get werth and gonzalez
and u could be the catcher
Possible World Series favorites.
You’re right up there.
I expect the Yankees to make a splash soon. By either trading Gardy for a decent pitcher and then signing Crawford or just signing Lee.
"Individual players don't win championships, teams do."
I also say Crawford is maybe just as likely
because the FO loves him.
embrace the martian
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Dec 4, 2010 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
I call smokescreen
atleast i want to believe it so bad :D
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
It's possible,
but from what I’ve taken in, he’s been the favorite of the sox since September.
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by BoldandBrash on Dec 4, 2010 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
Even You Can Probably Agree
If the deal is right, you’d be okay with it wouldn’t you?
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
well the deal would have to be cheaper than Werths for what the possibility is zero
couple of reasons:
1. Crawford loses defensive value in Fenways small LF. I’m not convinced he can play center and he doesnt have the arm for right.
2. He cant hit lefties. This is huge is it not? With very likely Cliff Lee, CC and Pettite in the yanks rotation.
We’re pretty leftie heavy as of now and all 3 OF lefties? I dont like it. How would we fare in an ALCS against the Yanks were we would see lefties in 4-5 games in a best of 7 series?
The point is Werth is cheaper, less years and the better fit, so why go for Crawford?
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
we absolutely robbed these guys
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EK Brought This Up on ESPN Radio this Morning
Now I preface this with, he and all of us are Red Sox fans, so we’re all happy. However, if this is actually going down the way it is, Theo & Co. just robbed SD blind. Is that good for baseball is the question. Objectively, not really. I mean there are a multitude of factors that play into this, but the question remains: does this hurt baseball as a whole?
I would think so. Look at what parity in sports gets us: the success of the NFL.
Just something to chew on.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
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Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
I think we all wait and see if Casey Kelly and Anthony Rizzo are putting up 5 WAR a piece in 2014.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
and we'll wait and see if Boston has won a world series with Gonzalez.
embrace the martian
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Dec 4, 2010 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
Definitely looking forward to opening day.
ALCS preview!
"Individual players don't win championships, teams do."
Well, I'm not sure that's important.
This is just typical money and future stuff. The Padres weren’t going to resign Gonzo, and getting Kelly and Rizzo lets them pick up first-round type talent without spending bonus money. Win-win.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
Padres are not winning anyting in the near future
so MLB is pretty much the same, except SD now has pieces to help rebuild.
I don't know
AGon is gone after this season anyways. In Rizzo you have his replacement, and in Kelly a potential ace.
Sure, compared to the haul Texas got for Teixeira, Kelly/Rizzo/Guentes isn’t much, but I think the Braves WAAAAAY overpaid (especially considering Salty’s rep at the time). It’s certainly a better deal than what the Twins got for Santana, or the Marlins for Cabrera (in hindsight).
Manny ain't the only bad man.
Speier
This is what Adrian Gonzalez did for the Portland Sea Dogs as a 20-year-old in 2002: .266/.344/.437/.781, 17 HR, 96 RBI, 138 games
This is what Anthony Rizzo did for the Portland Sea Dogs as a 20-year-old in 2010, following his early-season promotion from Hi-A Salem: .263/.334/.481/.815, 20 HR, 80 RBI in 107 games
Hehz?
Twitter | "Almost every organization has a guy like Papelbon or Lester" - Dave Cameron 12/29/2005
Ha, nice.
I’ll still take the established major leaguer.
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Parity in baseball is not going to be solved
by the Red Sox giving the Padres an extra player or two.
Parity in baseball will never happen until MLB addresses the financial disparities in the way it is structured.
time for Werth
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Gonzo + Werth... is not enough without Bullpen & Catcher help
Wich is your priority?
Downs?, Martin?, Napoli? Guerrier?, Soriano? Bell??
Hoping to became a Stud!
Downs and Martin
Maybe Bell.
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i think all 3 are quite important
and the money should be there for all 3: Werth, Downs and Martin
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
SOTO damn you SOTO!!!
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Edes says Iglesias and Kalish are not in the deal,
so I’m guessing that is all.
embrace the martian
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
As Pete Abe reminds us
The Red Sox will likely lose their first and second round picks this year…
And gain a first and second round pick with three sandwich round picks.
Coming off one of the most impressive drafts I’ve ever seen…
And going into one of the deepest drafts in recent memory.
What depleted farm system?
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That Depletion is More on SD's End.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
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about 5 of the 1st 50
ridiculous
embrace the martian
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Dec 4, 2010 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
I doubt it.
Most teams Beltre would sign with have a protected pick.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
Kudos, you bunch of ball-washing bastards
I just want to throw up
If this works, I want the copywrite and patent on the statistic.
Follow me: @SandyKazmir, read me @ Dockoftherays.com, feel me whenever you want.
It's always refreshing to see you positive.
I mean for once you’—RED SOX SIGN ADRIAN BELTRE FOR 5/80!!!
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
I know this probably won't happen
But I really hope we can grab Crawford. That would really put us over the top.
Hopefully we don’t give Werth a big contract, because I think he is very average. Look at his home/away splits, and it screams of a player that is a home field product.
Beginning of the Sarkisian ERA
Anyways, nevermind the Crawford/Werth talk
I just want to celebrate getting A-Gone. Big day for us all.
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by hportallstar on Dec 4, 2010 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Look at Crawford's splits vs. lefties and righties
We already have plenty of lefties who can hit and get on base. Now we need a few more righties.
Crawford is younger
Its just not what we need.
Take the cheaper and shorter deal with Werth. Get someone who can hit for power from the right side of the plate.
Just imagine being an AL East pitcher. Having to face Ellsbury, followed by Pedroia, followed by Gonzalez, followed by Youkilis, followed by Ortiz, followed by Werth, followed by Drew, followed by Salty and lastly facing Lowrie.
It goes, LRLRLRLRR. Scary
As a huge Craw fan, I have to say that I hope he goes to your team, he'll be wasted patrolling the monster, while Werth would hit about 25 over it each year.
If this works, I want the copywrite and patent on the statistic.
Follow me: @SandyKazmir, read me @ Dockoftherays.com, feel me whenever you want.
by Sandy Kazmir on Dec 4, 2010 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
Probably nothing major.
Although I expect it won’t be completely as painless as the usual TBNL
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
One hopes
But wouldn’t Ranaudo/Coyle/Cecchini/Vitek all necessarily be PTBNL, since they can’t be traded yet?
Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 4, 2010 2:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Gammons sez it's not a "prime guy"
Of course, if I know Gammons, any prospect loses about 10% of their status in his eyes once they leave the Sox farm system. But unlikely one of those guys I think.
You guys are all forgetting about
Robert Playertobenamedlater He was a stud in Salem last year. I’ll be sad to see him go.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Absolutely
Best Native American ballplayer in A-ball
Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 4, 2010 8:48 PM EST up reply actions
Now we pray Beltre signs with someone from the 20-30 range in the first round.
;)
Then we would have gained Gonzo and only really lost a few years of development. (Plus a few dollars)
Jeez I go to dinner come back and I am buried in this thread who are the prospects now?
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
Kelly, Rizzo, Fuentes, PTBNL
Final
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
And medicals
Final on the return though.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
Unless it's some crazy stuff.
Soxprospects points out it could be a 2010 draftee.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
whats the worst case?
Ranaudo? would that change the perception of the deal?
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Vitek is the worst case
Ranaudo signed much too late.
Not likely it’s Vitek either, though. Probably overreacting.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Couldn't say
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
Never
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
Angels
Included a good PTBNL in the Haren deal. Skaggs, I think.
Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 4, 2010 2:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
True.
I love Skaggs.
Got that sexy barreh.
Lefty with a big hook a la Zito.
Showing advanced command for a fellow a year out of HS.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 4, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
I told, ya, Bubba Bell
Though it is probably Stolmy.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Stolmy wouldn't be a PTBNL. He'd just be traded.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
He is Rule 5 draft eligable
is he on the 40-man?
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
ok wow that is really good news now extension time
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
Rumor: PTBNL = Vitek
Since he was signed June 12, he can be included next June 12.
This is ONLY a rumor.
I don't think it can be
I believe you can’t trade recent draftees and a PTBNL has to be named inside of 6 mo.s – but I’m just passing on what I’ve read elsewhere.
Vitek was signed immediately after the draft, he'd be set to trade w/in the limit.
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This offseason is getting more interesting by the minute
Throw in possibly adding carl crawford or Jayson Werth, and this might be one heck of a hot stove.
By the way, how old is Adrian?
Bilal Powell for Heisman!
Gonzalez looking for a Ryan Howard type deal
according to Morosi
That would be around 5 years, 125 mil.
Beginning of the Sarkisian ERA
yeah and if they followed the howard extension exactly
which may be unlikely since Howards hasn’t even kicked in yet, but IF they do
Then an option for another year at just $13 million over the included buyout.
So a team option of 6/130 OR 7/143
I'd like to keep him a bit under that
But dodging those 35-37 years might be worth it.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
If I were him, I'd be arguing that Gonzalez ages 29-34 is worth much more than Howard ages 32-37
but I won’t complain.
He is worth at least twice as much as Howard.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder if I can do CSV in posts.
Would be much less ugly.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
you can use the 'pre' tag
(<pre>) to get a fixed format font like so:
Age AVG OBP 23 .276 .353 29 .298 .393
Well I should say it's just because the Phillies gave him a really, really stupid contract.
Like, horribly awful.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
yeah that was odd
but at least Tulo doesn’t look like he’s already in decline 2 years before his contract kicks in. Yet.
At least Tulo is a prime player right now.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
And/or "What Wolf said"
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
Not even the Yankees will give Gonzo 5/250.
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
I should add
That this isn’t taking into account the fact that Howard and Gonzo play in exactly opposite parks.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
Good point
I;d rather have Gonzalez anyday.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
UZR effs up WAR.
No one knows if the UZR is being computed accurately.
WAR is voodoo.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 4, 2010 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
Fox Sports is say he wants a "Ryan Howard-like extension"
I love it. 5 years, $125 million. A lot per year but he’ll hit FA well before he should decline. And much nicer than the Teixeira deal he was rumored to look for.
My morning:
Woke up, drank two cups of coffee, got all jacked up on caffeine, read this news, shouted “Hoo-ah” like Al Pacino, and then did a little dance.
Ohhh boy.
I can't remember
The last move we made with such universal adoration. Not a single person has complained (who is a Sox fan).
They just think he's absorbed scrappiness from playing next to David Eckstein last year
Just imagine how much scrappy he’ll be after a year next to the Laser Show
Was just gonna say.....
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 4, 2010 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
This is a steal
Kelly/Rizzo/Fuentes( I have never heard of Fuentes). I would still be happy if the deal included Kalish or Inglesis, but to keep them around, especially Kalish, makes this an absolute steal for the Sox.
Fuentes was last years 1st round pick
which was confusing. Essentially, he’s Ellsbury, but with a different name, and he hasn’t won anyone a free taco (that I know of)
Better reads, some talk of some power potential
Not really showing anything but speed in the minors though.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
I think his uncle was a great player forget his name
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
Beltran
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure
But I think SD gets free tacos whenever the Padres score 5+ runs.
I wish Chicago had something like that in place, I’d hate the White Sox less than I already do, and I might even be prepared to acknowledge the Cubs are anything more than a bunch of bastards keeping Soto from me.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
It happened quite a lot this year.
SD’s my NL team, I try to follow them as much as possible.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
I am not a Fuentes fan
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
Thoughts on Crawford vs Werth
One thing to consider about Crawford and having an overkill of lefties: Crawford is likely a 6-7 year investment, just because we are too left-handed for 2011 doesn’t mean we will be going forward. Drew and Ortiz are both off the books this year and could potentially be replaced by right-handed hitters (though I think Kalish takes over for Drew after another year in the minors).
Cameron kills lefties and will start vs the majority of them this year, probably for Drew. And if they could convince Papi’s ego to be a platoon player, it would probably be fairly easy to acquire a lefty masher like a Cody Ross type at the deadline to platoon with Ortiz as well. Give him till the deadline and if he’s posting another .600 OPS season vs lefties, it’s time to get him a platoon partner, regardless of what you’ve accomplished in the past.
Werth’s prowess vs lefties is certainly an advantage over Crawford and he’s the better fit for 2011 but that doesn’t neccessarily make him the choice over the younger, better Crawford on a long-term investment.
This team is going to change quite a bit throughout Werth’s and/or Crawford’s contracts so Theo can’t just look strictly at the 2011 roster and rule out Crawford. And again, platoons can make the lefty issue much less of an issue.
as per Peter Gammons:
Player tbnl in Gonzalez deal is not prime guy. To be determined, unlike The Foundation to be Named Later
From twitter. Rest assured, your Vitek is safe.
Beat me to it
So Kalish, Iglesias, and Vitek can be ruled out.
Beginning of the Sarkisian ERA
by hportallstar on Dec 4, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
Yay
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
I am back again
So, what else has happened>
I read the PTBNL is not Vitek.
Bubba Bell? ;)
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"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson
Totally
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
If it's not Bell
it has to be Kris Johnson.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
I'm so happy about this deal.....
I’m starting to come around on Salilamacchia as the starting catcher. Victor who???
Theo rules!!
(for a couple of weeks)
Haha
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
I will jump on that wagon
I mean, Salty isn’t that bad.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah like giving a 32 year old Victor Martinez...
The 4th largest contract in the history of the MLB for a catcher.
Rod Barajas
or Kevin Cash.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
Eeeeh
give Theo the benefit of the doubt for today. Salty still sucks bigtime though.
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
He's got potential.
But yeah, he kind of does ATM.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah i dont really drag everybody mood down with a Salty discussion.
But i really dont see much upside in him. The last time he put up good stats are in AA in 2007. I’m really down on him i see nothing in him whatsoever. I’ll glady hope to be wrong though.
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
sure does
but you know, if we can geta lineup that includes Gonzalez and Werth, I’m fine with having a catcher that has potential he hasn’t and may not realize.
If he really sucks, he’ll get dropped for someone with at least a positive attribute at some point in the year.
If he sucks, Lavarnway could be up
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
No way
Can’t do much of anything behind the plate yet, still in Double-A, etc. They’d bring up Expo first.
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by Ben Buchanan on Dec 4, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
This is the most comments I have ever seen at OTM.
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"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson
I know
We may need an overload.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
This will provide no solace for those who don't trust the Sox medical staff
but from Sean McAdams’ Twitter:
Source: Gonzalez has already taken physical, repaired right shoulder "should be fine,’’ just minor tests still to complete.
But when will he arrive at Fenway? I need 10 minutes lead-time
In fact, I’m going to take my lunch at Chipotle and do a lap around Fenway, just in case I can spot anything.
OTM on-the-spot reporting!
We are counting on you Sean.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Just don't get carried away
The last thing we need is “Crazed blogger arrested for stalking A-Gon before he signs contract; A-Gon backs out.”
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
You know the media
Never do their jobs thoroughly—just trying to break the big story. We’d still get blamed.
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
I'm sure he's already there
I’m sure that a big part of theo’s negotiating ploy is having him take BP against the monster and saying “think about how many homers you’re gonna have here”
Good point
stand in the box, try to touch the monster. Also, not for nothing, our bullpens are now 7’ closer in right.
I thought they did that for Ellsbury?
;)
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
That was for Jed, actually.
Too many warning track hits. They figured they might as well make them homers instead.
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
What a deal
the redsox get a top slugger in his prime without having to give up any big pieces? Great deal.
Well, they did give up big pieces
But not TOO big.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
well in my mind
big pieces are things that will help them win in the present. You just never know in baseball if these rookies pan out to be successful.
We need to be prepared
for Kelly to be a monster for years to come. He was already going to be good, now in the NL West and PETCO, the sky is the limit.
Yeah, necro all the Hanley Ramirez threads
except insert Kelly’s name instead.
We just have to be strong then and remember our feelings now.
exactly
and just like beckett, gonzo helps us win right now. One ring stops most of the speculation
True but
is anyone willing to give the WS ring and trade back Beckett and Lowell for Hanley Ramirez?
You have to give up something good to get something good.
They were pretty dang good in '07.
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
I think his arguement is we win 08
and i kinda have to agree. still not mad about the beckett deal though
by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 4, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
Yep.
Beckett, Schilling, Lester, Wake vs. Schilling, Lester, Wake and who knows who.
I’m not even sure we get to the playoffs if we don’t have Beckett on the roster that year.
well two guys with a ton of potential
and one guy who i guess has potential to show a lot of potential or something…
if this were football or basketball
itd be a terrible deal, because rookies with high potential in those sports often live up to their hype. But in baseball? Theres countless players in every farm system who could be the next big thing. Very few of them are.
oh yeah definitely
I do think this was a steal. I thought his price would be significantly steeper (like about a top prospect steeper).
Kelly and Rizzo are nothing to shrug at
But we’ve known they’d be there for a while now. The fact that all we have to give them besides him is Fuentes and a PTBNL is astounding to me.
by beantownboy171 on Dec 4, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
And we kept Kalish
Which I am really happy about.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
OK
I’m hearing that the shoulder should be fine.
The PTBNL is not a ‘prime guy’
We’re keeping Kalish, Lowrie, Iglesias
When are we going to hear that this is some cruel joke
hopefully never
getting a top player this cheap, its early x-mas for the sox.
Not a joke,
But it may have been an accident!
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
And i have to say i have my doubts
Hes an injury risk, and who knows how he’l adapt to the AL. But despite this im really happy about the trade, and its a great move to make us a playoff contender again.
What a steal
Kelly is good, but we have many other elite pitching prospects (Doubront, Pimental, Ranaudo). Rizzo isn’t easy to part with, but Lars Anderson is a very similiar player, and both Kalish adn Lin are better than Fuentes. As long as PTBNL isn’t a top 10 prospect, we got an absolute steal. All these guys we traded are very replaceable.
Lars is not even close to Rizzo
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't say that.
Rizzo has much more power, but for most of 2009, soxprospects.com had Lars as our top prospect. But you also have to remember, if Gonzalez gets a 5 or 6 year deal, Lars won’t see much playing time anyway.
Not before 2014 anyway.
That’s when Youk leaves.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
So basically the Sox just need Werth and 2 bullpen pieces.
Werth is a cheaper version of Crawford (we have too many lefties, anyway). Sign him!
We still have Scutaro to trade! If we sign Crawford instead of Werth it’s worth trading Ellsbury for a relief pitcher.
So you would sign a guy in his 30s to a 4 year deal?
We still have Cameron under contract, Ells could bounce back, and Drew has been good when he’s not hurt. Don’t forget Kalish, who will likely start, and also, Nava and McDonald wouldn’t be bad as a 4th outfielder. I wouldnt’ throw away money at Werth unless Ells or Kalish are traded.
Cameron and Ellsbury are nothings
Drew is a starter who will rest against lefties, so otherwise-useless Cameron can do something for once. Kalish will start for Pawtucket.
werth or crawford are necessary in left.
I agree that they are nothings,
but they are nothings who are under contract. Kalish should start the year with the big club. Between the four of them, you have an ok outfield (assuming either Cameron or Ellsbury can actually do what they are capable of). We don’t need to bring in an outfielder
An "okay" outfield is not going to win a title.
We just traded for a superstar, now we get the pieces to win another title.
You can be damn sure that Werth or Crawford will be standing in left field on opening day.
Oh plus if they don't get and OFer
They are going to have to spend to bring in someone like Downs who will cost us a 1st. I can tolerate spending a 1st on Werth or Crawford. Not on Downs.
fun fact:
the sox pay gonzo 5 million dollars to play this year. But of course if they want to lock him up for longer its going to cost them 150-180ishM.
Relief Pitching has to be a priority now.
I wouldn’t trade Scutaro because then Lowrie is your full time SS. Scutaro is only under contract for this year, and that’s fine because in 2012, Iglesias will take over as full time SS. 2 good relievers like Crain or Downs would be good. This is highly unlikely, but Jenks is a nontender FA. Picking up a guy like him would solidify our pen.
yea, yea, but what happened to
miller and taylor buch?
i’m still not sure if theo knows what he’s doing
Miller filed for free agency
I’m pretty high on Miller, a lefty who can throw high nineties. I think he would be a great addition to the pen. We need to sign him though.
Padres fan here
I’m happy that Gonzo’s able to get his big-time contract, because he really is worth the money.
Padre fans knew that 2011 would be the end of the line between us and #23, anfd with the surgery he underwent, Hoyer knew that we had to get something for him now, or risk another injury and we get nothing for him in the next offseason, so this wasn’t surprising to us,
Hopefully Gonzo knocks the Yanks around this year,
"Since we only live once (that we know of) we should focus on enjoying our lives, not stressing to follow every single thing and trend that society impose upon us." - Thom Yorke of Radiohead
Thanks
I think Kelly will be special, hopefully he makes this deal worth it for you guys. And Rizzo ain’t no slouch himself.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
So what can we potentially expect from Kelly and Rizzo?
"Since we only live once (that we know of) we should focus on enjoying our lives, not stressing to follow every single thing and trend that society impose upon us." - Thom Yorke of Radiohead
by Jonathan Holmes on Dec 4, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
Right,
What can we expect from Kelly, Fuentes, and Rizzo?
"Since we only live once (that we know of) we should focus on enjoying our lives, not stressing to follow every single thing and trend that society impose upon us." - Thom Yorke of Radiohead
by Jonathan Holmes on Dec 4, 2010 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
there are people on this board who know a lot about our prospects
Ill defer to them for a more detailed analysis.
Rizzo will hit for average (LD hitter) and pull power while playing nifty defense.
Kelly: Great command and GB in bunches!
Twitter | "Almost every organization has a guy like Papelbon or Lester" - Dave Cameron 12/29/2005
Kelly can be great
He’s real young, played at an advanced level, and his stuff is really good. Give him another year and a half to two years in the minors and I think he’ll be ready.
Rizzo can also be really good, not just hitting, but defensively. His glove is really good and his power is getting better and better. If he can become a bit more disciplined he can possibly be a future star.
Fuentes is the wild card. He has excellent speed, I believe he’s quite good defensively, and can ultimately become an Ellsbury type player. He’s still so young and so raw that right now it’s tough to tell how good he’ll be.
I don’t know nearly as much as some others on here, but this is ultimately what I’ve seen from these guys.
Kelly is a pretty solid bet to be a #2 barring crazy Craig Hansen mental issues (and he’s a pretty collected guy, so…), and definitely has a chance to be an ace. He’s historically had great control, and right now is trying to work out how to use his improved stuff properly (fastball ticked up a few MPH) against more advanced competition (very young for his league). Don’t freak out about the numbers—there’s a reason he survived as most place’s #1 despite them. Oh, right, and this was his first full year pitching, since he’d been a part-time SS. Definitely a pitcher though.
Rizzo is another wonder for his age. After missing out a year due to Hodgkin’s Lymphoma, he’s already up to Double-A. Could use a lot more exposure to advanced hitting, though, to get his old disciplined ways at the plate back. Power really exploded this year, leading the system with 25 homers. If the discipline returns, he’s got a great shot at being an MLB starter with some all-star potential. WAR will love him for his glove, too.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
Fuentes...Eh.
Color me unimpressed since the moment we picked him. He’s fast, yes, but he’s not shown any ability to reach base. There was talk that the Sox saw some sort of power potential in him, but if so, it’s unrealized as-of-yet. I just don’t see this guy being more than a backup CF/PR type.
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USG
Stay Classy San Diego
I mean that, nice post. I hope Kelly has a 2.00 ERA for you guys in the Cavern.
I know I'll be watching Kelly and Rizzo for years to come.
I love me some Padres baseball, and it seems like they go on big winning streaks whenever I go out to SD.
Now… about Headley…
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Padres are now my NL team.
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"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson
by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 4, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
Bandwagoner
Padres were my NL team before they were cool.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Casey Kelly and Matty Latos are either going to love each other or hate each other.
Bash Bros.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 4, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
Funny Thing...
5 years from now, if Kelly and Rizzo turn out to be star players, the Padres might not be able to sign them…
And then the Red Sox swoop in and take ’em. That would be kind of funny, in a morbid sort of way.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
thats a funny way of looking at it
worst case scenario: by the time these guys are superstars ready for the majors, theyl be FAs.
I imagine Gaslamp Ball
is burning you in effigy right about now.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
Then my life is complete.
I shall return to the shadow…and await.
Honestly, no disrespect to the Padres though.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
Padres as a AAAA training ground for the Sox.
The Pads get the kinks out of the system, the Sox swap in some new guys to break in, and pick up the finished product.
I like it. Make it so!
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
That's pretty much the feeling right now in SD
What you have to understand is that we’ve heard so many times that we’re rebuilding for the future, that it’s only a few years before we’re competing for a NL pennant, and then it almost never happens, and when it does happen, we end up disappointed, players want bigger contracts that we won’t be able to give them, and we’re right back where we started from.
We’re seen as nothing more than a AAA team in a big league setting, a stepping stone for a Boston, or New York , or a St. Louis, and we want to be more than that.
"Since we only live once (that we know of) we should focus on enjoying our lives, not stressing to follow every single thing and trend that society impose upon us." - Thom Yorke of Radiohead
by Jonathan Holmes on Dec 4, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
If it's any consolation
I think Hoyer knows how to time things so you get those Marlins windows.
This trade, for instance, includes nobody with a started service clock.
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This is the sad state of baseball
small salary teams can occasionally have all their high draft picks & other prospects simultaneously emerge and have the talent to make a run for a few years ….but then they can’t sign ’em when they reach FA.
So they sink into several bad seasons again until it all repeats.
I really hope your new owners give Hoyer some real money to work with.
After seeing what he and Towers did last year, I’m excited for you guys in the future.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
SD is taking a play out of the marlins book
trade your franchise player now for nothing but rookies. You save money, and if you get lucky, you can still win.
Does this guy really get paid for this s**t?
Absolute joke.
Boston fans, Chicken Littles that they are, worry that after a season in which their team didn’t make the playoffs and owner John Henry went and bought the Liverpool soccer club, they’re falling behind in the arms race with the Yankees. Far from it. Every free agent with whom New York chats, Boston can ring ‘em up and not get laughed off the phone. With Gonzalez, the Red Sox are plenty stronger than they were 24 hours ago, though it’s not like we’re talking about some 97-pound weakling.
They should hire Christopher B.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 4, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
yes this is the same genius who last week
was arguing that signing a $160 million extension was a bad move for Tulo on the Rockies.
haha, yup
I think he said it was bad for the Rockies as well, but saying it was bad for Tulo was just so absurd
well to be fair
in what other sport do you see a team trading away their young franchise player for nothing but unproven rookies? But yeah, the article is over the top.
exactly my point
it happens all the time in baseball, and is reflective on the how the baseball economy works. In a salary cap world, this trade never happens and the franchise player stays with his franchise.
well thats for sure
blockbusters like this are “sexy” and fans and media alike love to see it. Fun times.
Well I think you're right
Even if you’re being sarcastic
But what I really mean is with a salary cap you might have one superstar but then he takes up a lot of your salary and you don’t have a good team around him. Or you just don’t pay the players what they’re worth.
not really sarcastic
this is fun :)
i just also understand the perspective that small market teams get bullied, and teams in a salary cap market keep their franchise players for most (if not all) of a career.
Hot, breaking news from Fenway:
Nothing is happening!
A guy was scraping construction dirt off of Jersey St, and a tour was going into the park. I spoke for about 10 minutes with the guy behind the counter at ‘47, and nothing has really been happening all day. Gonzo shirts won’t be in for some time (Jan/Feb) he figures, so no Xmas gifts here unless it’s rushed.
I miss my Fenway.
I'm confused I didn't want to read all of the posts but um
It’s Casey Kelly, Reymond Fuentes, Anthony Rizzo (NOOOO), and who else?
Or is it Casey Kelly, Anthony Rizzo, Jose Iglesias, and Ryan Kalish (I think this one is a joke >_>)
I haven’t been on these forums in awhile, I don’t know what’s what lol.
Kelly, Rizzo, Fuentes, PTBNL
general consensus: we are thieves. Theo may finally have That Trade for the first time since Schilling.
But you know...
the beckett trade also landed us a ring. Really cant complain about that one.
yeah i like h-ram
and im not the biggest beckett fan either. But go back and watch the 2007 postseason, all 3 series. Theres no way we win without beckett, even if we had 2 h-rams. And thats why theo gets a pass there, we all knew h-ram was going to be good. The hope was beckett would make us win, and he did.
I agree but also Theo wasn't the one who made that trade.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 4, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
eh yeah it was implied he was directly involved though.
“behind the scenes”
Some people have been saying he wouldn't have made the trade if he were GM.
Any articles on this?
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 4, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
who knows
its all speculation really, and if theo wouldnt make the trade, chances are he wouldnt be too willing to admit it.
People have said that he's gone on the record saying he wouldn't have made it.
Ehhh, wevz.
Doesn’t really matter.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 4, 2010 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
nothing but hearsay
it may be true. It may not be true. I’ve seen some people hypothesize that it was one of the contentious issues that caused him to leave, but I doubt that’s true.
He wouldn't have sent Hanley.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Let's celebrate please
Twitter | "Almost every organization has a guy like Papelbon or Lester" - Dave Cameron 12/29/2005
I would say:
Pretty fair deal for everybody!
Twitter | "Almost every organization has a guy like Papelbon or Lester" - Dave Cameron 12/29/2005
Hoyer really should have demanded Jed or Iglesias, but boy am I happy.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 4, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
Well now that this is over
Who’s next :D? But I don’t want Carl Crawford…because he wants to play left field
the real question is
do we lock him up now or wait to see how he handles the AL?
There's no trade if they don't sign him to a long-term deal.
But there’s no reason to think an NL hitter can’t hit in the AL. (Pitching is a different scenario.)
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
its just one of those things
not all players make a smooth transition from one league to the other, regardless of which league is “better”
So i take it, adrian has a no trade clause and is demanding a long term deal?
no i think he'd be fine to hit FA
he doesn’t have a NTC, part of the trade is that we made it contingent on him signing an extension.
Over Flow?
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
The middle of the order will be absolutely disgusting
Pedroia, Youk, Gonzo, Ortiz, (Werth??)
well especially the middle.
but there (in all likelihood) will not be a black hole at catcher. Salty is young and decent against righties, Tek at least should start the year well against lefties, and russell martin is available, as well as napoli.
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