Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Heating Up: Miami Evens Series; LeBron, Wade Take Charge

Red Sox Interested In Carl Crawford: Are They Willing To Commit?

The Red Sox offseason is becoming more and more interesting by the day.

Red Sox GM Theo Epstein has finally woken up since the departure of catcher Victor Martinez. The Red Sox have reportedly expressed interest in reliever Matt Guerrier, outfielder Jayson Werth, and have also been keeping tabs on Adrian Beltre as they hope to re-sign him. But the biggest news surrounds one Carl Crawford.

As of Today, Tim Brown of Yahoo! Sports and Gordon Edes of ESPNBoston.com have reported that the Red Sox have stepped up their pursuit of Crawford, with Epstein having met with the 4-time All-Star in his hometown of Houston, Texas. Crawford away from the meeting "Very, very impressed" with what the Red Sox have to offer according to Peter Gammons, appearing on NESN Daily.

Meanwhile, the Yankees are putting Crawford on the back-burner, instead focusing on free agent pitcher Cliff Lee, whom the Rangers offered a 5-year deal today. This could open a window for the Red Sox to get a deal done with Crawford while New York remains uncertain of it's budget situation until after Lee makes his decision.

Crawford is a favorite among the entire Red Sox organization, with manager Terry Francona calling him a "game changer" in a radio interview.

The only catch to Crawford is that he has reportedly been seeking an 8-year, 160 million dollar deal. While Henry has been calling the shots, the Red Sox have yet to offer a contract larger than the 5-year, 82.5 million dollar one they gave John Lackey last offseason (one that many Sox fans would sooner forget).

The question that arises in all of this is whether or not this "game changer" is worth a long-term commitment?

Star-divide


G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG
2010 - Carl Crawford 154 600 110 184 30 13 19 90 46 104 47 10 .307 .356 .495

Crawford was in peak form in 2010, managing career highs in numerous categories, including RBI, homers, OPS, and WAR. While his 47 steals were noticeably fewer than the 60 he managed in 2009, this may be due to his reaching base on doubles and triples more often this year instead of any drop in speed or ability.

The scary part about Crawford is that at just 29-years-old he is only now entering the prime of his career.

For the Sox, the decision comes down to whether or not they would be willing to break the bank and commit long term to Crawford, who would be 37 at then end of his desired 8-year contract. The Red Sox have generally been averse to making this kind of commitment to any player in the past.

Still, the Red Sox haven't been completely unwilling to break the bank when it comes to top talent. Some may have forgotten, but Boston offered outfielder Matt Holliday a 5-year, 82.5 million dollar contract last year before he signed with the Cardinals. And, of course, in 2008 they offered Mark Teixeira--about Crawford's age at the time of the negotiations--an 8-year deal in excess of 160 million dollars before the Yankees (somehow) came in at the last second and signed him.

While the Red Sox could cave and make that same offer to Crawford, one last temptation remains: Jayson Werth.

Currently the second best outfielder on the market behind Crawford (by WAR), Werth is reportedly seeking a 4-5 year deal worth about 60 million dollars. The Red Sox were unwilling to match those numbers last year when Jason Bay signed with the Mets on a 4-year, 66 million dollar deal.

In recent years, the Red Sox have been able to extend the likes of Dustin Pedroia, Kevin Youkilis, and Jon Lester at their own price. All three have turned out to be great players for the Sox, and all three were developed within the organization. While the Sox do have money to spend, if the free agents' demands prove unreasonable, they may choose to see if they can luck out with rookie Ryan Kalish, who showed a lot of potential last season.

Crawford and Werth do seem to be Boston's top priorities right now. Both of them are complete players, performing both at the plate and in the field. But only the following weeks will tell us if the Red Sox are willing to make the commitment necessary to pick up these top talents.

Comment 216 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Hard to see...

the Red Sox going eight years for Crawford. I could see them stepping up to a large 5 year deal — in the $100 million range — with some incentives and options to extend the contract. Crawford will likely get at least an offer with more years attached from somewhere. If the Red Sox want him on their terms lengthwise, they are going to have to pay up and be creative. I just hope, that if he is their plan A this offseason, that they are aggressive. Don’t come up “just short” on a deal for your prime target again — especially with the Yankees looking elsewhere.

fyi – Paul and I discuss Crawford at length in this week’s podcast — and hey, we’re slightly entertaining.

Fireside Chats, the best Red Sox podcast on the web (or off it)
twitter: @tdaloisio

by tdaloisio on Dec 2, 2010 6:56 AM EST reply actions  

I love that show :)

Twitter | "Almost every organization has a guy like Papelbon or Lester" - Dave Cameron 12/29/2005

by radiohix on Dec 2, 2010 10:25 AM EST up reply actions  

how many years did we go with manny?

previous administration, of course.

that deal, arguably panned out in our favor.

if crawdaddy doesn’t produce, re-sign crisp to beat the snot out of him.

by Mick Lowe on Dec 2, 2010 4:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Arguably!?

We got a top 5 RH bat in baseball history, who led us to 2 WS rings. Then we used him to get our LF for the next year and a half.

It was a brilliant move, even with the money. If there were a Manny on the block now, I’d give him 8/25 no problem.

by Sean O on Dec 2, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

there is a Manny on the block right now!

oh, you mean Manny-like, not actual Manny today.

by wolf9309 on Dec 2, 2010 4:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Bay's negotiations allegedly foundered over a medical issue

There were some results that questioned his ability to play for four years because of problems with his knees, which led to the Sox pulling the four year offer and only giving a two-year deal.

So long as there are no health issues, I don’t see the Sox having a problem with a four-year deal with Werth.

Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell

by lone1c on Dec 2, 2010 7:12 AM EST reply actions  

There is a big difference between Bay and Werth

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Dec 2, 2010 7:25 AM EST reply actions  

And sucks like an airplane toilet in the field

And broke down.

Werth garners more comparisons to Drew.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Dec 2, 2010 9:39 AM EST up reply actions  

I dunno

Werth looks pretty similar to Bay, but he may be benefitting by having displayed his talents in Philly over the years in many post-season games. I have to put Werth a couple of notches below Crawford. I believe Werth will get a 5 year deal @ $16-17/yr. from someone.

I think the Red Sox are better off spending the extra money/years with Crawford. If you really want the Mercedes S class, and you can easily afford it, why settle for the C class?

by Scoop1981 on Dec 2, 2010 9:13 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't think they're as easily comparable

Werth is just a better fit for what the Sox will need. He’s a right-handed right fielder who gets on base better and has more power. And can even steal bases decently.

The Sox just don’t seem to me to have as much need for a left handed left fielder who will get a much bigger contract. Fits less, costs more.

by wolf9309 on Dec 2, 2010 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Agree about Werth vs. Bay

Werth does look the better player than Bay.
  I’m not sure Werth is a better fit for the lineup. I like the prospect of Crawford hitting in the #3 spot and I don’t think Werth will be in the top 4 of the lineup. Ellsbury/Pedrioa/Crawford/Youk/Papi is a nice top 4 with L/R/L/R/L hitters.
The Sox do have a right fielder, Drew for 2011. Werth could play left and move to right, but the Sox could simply put Crawford in left, his natural position, immediately and sit down Cameron or ship him out.

by Scoop1981 on Dec 2, 2010 11:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Why spend $18 million on a LF with eh on-base skills, and so-so power?

Yep, Crawford is a great defender. But LF is the least valuable defensive position in baseball.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Dec 2, 2010 11:32 AM EST up reply actions  

So why have a LF at all?

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 11:33 AM EST up reply actions  

WTF?

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Dec 2, 2010 11:34 AM EST up reply actions  

You say it is the leaset valuable

defensive position.
What people have to realize on Crawford; HE IS GOING TO BE OVERPAID. It should not come down to that. Do you want a good player? Go get him, because other teams with less money are willing too.

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

The question is:

Does paying Crawford $18 or so million improve the team enough to justify the contract. As I’ve said before, Crawford is a very good player. But his skills don’t really improve the Sox enough to warrant the contract he’ll likely get.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Dec 2, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

it IS the least valuable defensive position

Fenways left field is about 10 feet deep and you can underhand toss from the monster to home plate. It’s an easy position to fit a big bat who can’t field terribly well, so someone who is getting paid a ton principally for their defense would not be the Sox getting good value for their money.

by wolf9309 on Dec 2, 2010 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Exactly

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Dec 2, 2010 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

I guess that makes Jason Bay

pretty darn awful – seeing as he somehow could not get to balls hit to leftfield

by BobZupcic on Dec 2, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Yessir.

Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.

by Frederick0220 on Dec 2, 2010 2:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I think people are overselling the ease of being a LF for the Sox

Only half the games are at Fenway. Are 81 games of ok fielding plus 81 of bad really equal to 162 of great?

by brogshan on Dec 2, 2010 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

No. Far from it.

Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.

by Frederick0220 on Dec 2, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

no, of course defense has value

that’s in no way what I’m saying.

What I’m saying is because half the games ARE played at Fenway, good left field defense is worth significantly less to the Red Sox in value than it is to other teams. I don’t see Crawford as worth anything close to what he will make, for the Red Sox.

by wolf9309 on Dec 2, 2010 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn't mean the say you didn't value defense

I’m just not sold on it making him “significantly” less valuable.

by brogshan on Dec 2, 2010 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know, just for me, for the Red Sox,

I would rather, if they’re going to spend $18-20 million annually on a left fielder, have it be an alright fielder who is a great hitter than a great defender who’s a pretty good hitter. Which isn’t to say that I’d take Adam Dunn over Crawford, just to say I don’t see his particular skill set as being worth $18-20 million per annum for the Sox.

by wolf9309 on Dec 2, 2010 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

he is going to be overpaid

tru dat!

everyone on the sox excluding a couple of home farmed guys, are over paid.

all big name FA’s are overpaid

it seems to be a necessary evil

by Mick Lowe on Dec 2, 2010 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm sticking with

8 years if he agrees to CF, 5 if he demands LF.

by Sean O on Dec 2, 2010 11:33 AM EST up reply actions  

He won't play CF and he won't hit lead-off

And he won’t sign for 5 years.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Dec 2, 2010 11:34 AM EST up reply actions  

I think he's a better fit for the Angels anyway

They’ll give him the years he wants and he’ll definitely play LF.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Dec 2, 2010 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

OK, who should they sign?

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

I think

we’re better served going the trade route. Let Pawtucket become a Diamondbacks farm team.

by Sean O on Dec 2, 2010 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

So... you give up prospects for Upton...

when you can sign Werth and Crawford for just money?

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 11:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes

Because Upton is special. I like Crawford, and I’ll grit and bear it when we sign him for 8 years, but I have concerns about signing a defense-first player in the least difficult defensive position in baseball.

by Sean O on Dec 2, 2010 11:42 AM EST up reply actions  

I like upton too

But you realize he hit .269 last year and has had two good seasons and strikes out a ton, and they have to give up a closer and CF?
No thank you.

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Ellsbury is less than nothing to me

So I don’t consider that a sacrifice. I like Bard, but he’s a closer who has trouble with lefties. Upton is 23 freaking years old, and slumped to a 111 OPS+ last year.

by Sean O on Dec 2, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Agree about Ells

I have no problem with the Sox trading him, as I see him as more of a LF than CF. The only problem with Upton is his ridiculously high K-rate.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Dec 2, 2010 11:58 AM EST up reply actions  

+1

K’s are way overrated (as a bad stat) when taken out of context

by BobZupcic on Dec 2, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

-1

If JUp keeps striking out at an inordinate clip, then he’s in trouble.

Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.

by Frederick0220 on Dec 2, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I think part of the problem

Is the AZ hitting coaches, a lot of their home-grown players have K problems, perhaps in Boston Upton will be fixed.

If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 2, 2010 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

That's a good point.

There prob is something in the water. It was up-and-down the lineup dudez being mowed down left and right.

Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.

by Frederick0220 on Dec 2, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly

Same issue I have with any player out of Toronto, new mentality, under our hitting coaches Bautista wouldn’t get close to 40 HR again. Alex Gonzalez is just another example.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Dec 2, 2010 5:09 PM EST up reply actions  

in Bautista's weird aberration year

he walked a decent amount and didn’t K a crazy amount. Be interesting to see if that keeps up next year.

by wolf9309 on Dec 2, 2010 5:55 PM EST up reply actions  

then what h@ll does he do?

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Dec 2, 2010 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

I honestly don't see a difference.

Power, plate discipline, contact rates, defense at a corner outfield position (they fixed Bay’s UZR in ’09 if anyone believe that sh!t), similar stolen base totals, etc.

Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.

by Frederick0220 on Dec 2, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

there's a huge difference

and it’s all in defense. Bay is a poor defender at a less important defensive position and Werth is a good defender at a more important defensive position.

This is from my eyes and reports i’ve heard from everyone, and the overall career UZR numbers.

by wolf9309 on Dec 2, 2010 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Go for it

If they were willing to go up to $180 mil. + for Texeira (who was always going to the Yankees), then Crawford should be worth $150-$160+. I rate Crawford a notch below Texieria, so 7-8 years at $20mil./yr. seems to fit the market for Crawford.

We can assume Crawford would hit #3 for the Sox, upgrading and replacing V-Mart there. For all those happy about saving the money with V-mart to spend somewhere else, here is the opportunity. I don’t believe Crawford has had much if any injury issues, his production is not declining and may actually be peaking, so I don’t see many issues with paying him when he is 36-37. That is not old for an elite athelete in this age. This will not be Crawford’s last contract.
If the Yankees want him, they will get him. Forget about this crap about the Yankees occupied with Lee. While I believe Lee is their top priority and they will sign him, the can easily juggle two deals at the same time. They MUST sign Lee. Crawford would be a luxury as they already have a good OF. Will they pay near Texeira money to an OF that will hit 6th in the lineup? Maybe, but not likely.

by Scoop1981 on Dec 2, 2010 9:07 AM EST reply actions  

I would cry if they signed Crawford for 7-8 years at $20m/year

And I actually LIKE Crawford, but that’s an overpay. Like giving Werth 6 years.

by South Coast Ghost on Dec 2, 2010 9:22 AM EST up reply actions  

The thing that surprises me the most about Crawford is that nobody is worried about the fact that this guy played EIGHT years on artificial turf

I mean for a guy who’s whole game is built around speed, shouldn’t we be worried about the health of his knees? If Werth is willing to go 5 years, he’s my choice.

Twitter | "Almost every organization has a guy like Papelbon or Lester" - Dave Cameron 12/29/2005

by radiohix on Dec 2, 2010 10:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Fieldturf, allegedly,

is much better than astroturf.

If you’re to believe the discussion in another thread on this site.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Dec 2, 2010 10:26 AM EST up reply actions  

I just saw the other thread but

With all due respect to Sean, I trust Torii Hunter on that one

"I’m pretty sure he has to think about that turf and that dome, and you have to think about your future first. Baseball is number one, and if you can’t play it because you’re sore every day, you learn that." Hunter, for those unaware, played nine seasons on both AstroTurf and FieldTurf at the Metrodome in Minneapolis, and openly lamented what the effects the surfaces had on his joints and limbs, and it’s not difficult to see that his range has decreased over the years.

Just say no to Crawford!

Twitter | "Almost every organization has a guy like Papelbon or Lester" - Dave Cameron 12/29/2005

by radiohix on Dec 2, 2010 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Hunter's range could also be decreasing because he's 35 years old now

He also signed when he was 32 going on 33, whereas Crawford will be 29 going on 30, so there’s a 3 year age difference as well.

Not saying you should give Crawford 7/8 years, but I don’t think he’s going to fall apart the second he touches Fenway grass in a Red Sox uniform.

by South Coast Ghost on Dec 2, 2010 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

He spent most of his time

On the hard astroturf, not the new springy stuff. And like SCG said, he’s old now.

by Sean O on Dec 2, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

He complained

I lived in central FL until this Spring. You heard the talk about Crawford and that surface. Even if they offered up the $ for him to stay, that field would be a HUGE negative for him.

simul justus et peccator

by cavman on Dec 2, 2010 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe

he also wants to play in front of actual humans, not blue seats.

by Sean O on Dec 2, 2010 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Sox will check his knees

Has he had knee problems?

The Red Sox will MRI his knees and every other joint before finalizing the contract. This is just more hand-wringing and jitters crap. The guy is a dynamic player and would be a huge upgrade to the team. Stop worrying and think more about winning.

by Scoop1981 on Dec 2, 2010 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Omar Minaya...is that you??
Stop worrying and think more about winning.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Dec 2, 2010 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Overpay

Two constants with just about all FA signings – you are signing a veteran player to a long-term deal, and you are spending/over-spending a ton of money. I prefer to look at good/bad conracts. I belive Crawford will perform well and help the team win over the course of a 7-8 year contract, so that’s my perspective. Now they may or may not pay Ellsbury in a couple of years and tie up so much money in the OF, but that’s a topic for another day.
On the other hand, Werth appears to be a larger risk of a bad contract, albeit for less money. Will we feel better if Werth is just OK getting $17 mil./year vs. Crawford getting $20 mil./year? Not me.

by Scoop1981 on Dec 2, 2010 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree with ost of what you said

But on your last point, we can flip flop them and have the same result.
If they want one of the players, they should let money or years limit them.

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 11:05 AM EST up reply actions  

crawdaddy ain't no texeira

i now (sic) texeria, and you crawdaddy ain’t no texeria

by Mick Lowe on Dec 2, 2010 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Please edit the articles before you post them

I’ve been holding my tongue for the past few weeks about this, as the new bloggers deserve time to adjust to writing for a larger audience (and I admit I don’t know if this issue has been brought up in previous threads), but OTM articles of late have been badly in need of a copy editor. I’ve seen spelling errors, grammar issues, and worse. There seems to be a particular profusion of sentences where the writer clearly started with one thought and ended with another, like this:

“Crawford had a career-year based on advanced statistics as Crawford, posting a 6.9 WAR—the highest of his career.”

Mistakes like that shouldn’t regularly make the front page. Either do a more thorough job of editing your own articles before you post them, or find someone else to do it.

That being said, good analysis overall. :) I tend to be skittish about giving players long contracts, since you’re basically assured of at least one injury-hampered season where you get nowhere near full value, but it’s a roll of the dice either way. And there’s a schadenfraude-happy part of me that would love to see the Yankees miss out on both Lee and Crawford this offseason.

by Tarrsk on Dec 2, 2010 11:28 AM EST reply actions  

I'd calm down on it

This isn’t grammar class. And trust me, I love grammar stuff, but it’s not a big deal.

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 11:32 AM EST up reply actions  

+1

Grammar is a basic skill and a hallmark of effective and mature prose. There’s nothing about the internet which makes it more difficult to use grammar, particularly with respect to substantial articles (as opposed to back-and-forth posts). So long as no one’s attempting to use it as a substantive argument, a proper grammar critique is appropriate.

Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."

by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 2, 2010 12:12 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

yea, dis gramma stuff is causing global warming!!!

down witt bad spllening!!!

and getz those little prepositions rightly put!!! do it know!!!

by Mick Lowe on Dec 2, 2010 5:38 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

The main reason I come here is the professional quality of most of the posts here. If that’s going to end, I’m sure I could find somewhere else to spend my time.

If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 2, 2010 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Not to pile on

But I agree with this. There are other Sox blogs that I simply don’t read anymore because the writing quality has gone down and SBN as a whole offers a wide range of well written blogs.

by brogshan on Dec 2, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Grammar is important and perhaps a little extra proofreading is warranted

but I’d rather we not call the new guy out in the open forums like this. The editors all have email addresses at which you can contact them. That’s the way to go about doing it.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Dec 2, 2010 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't mean to pick on Jared specifically

As I said, this has been a recurring problem for the new writers in general. I think the substance behind the posts have been good overall, but the editing issues seemed systemic. My apologies if this was the wrong venue, though.

by Tarrsk on Dec 2, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks....

Contributor To OTM, SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Blog

by Jared Stegall on Dec 2, 2010 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

And that's 100% correct too.

I enjoy the articles, and I’m sorry for contributing to the discussion in the wrong forum…

Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."

by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 2, 2010 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

communication is important

grammar – come on, it ain’t that big o deal – close is good enuff.

by Mick Lowe on Dec 2, 2010 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

You would really hate Baseball America.

Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.

by Frederick0220 on Dec 2, 2010 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

This is a Blog, not true journalism.

The rules are much different. Blogs are opinion based communities not #1 choices for dissemination of news and information.

by SoxAcumen on Dec 2, 2010 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

This argument is used a lot

But many things that are written are not journalism and are still upheld to certain standards of quality. If it is a poorly written book, I’m not reading it either.

Perhaps I’m in the minority, but I see a distinction between what is offered at SBN and a live journal entry. I’m not sure the rules are that different. Lots of blogs, especially this one, are a #1 place for dissemination of news and information. That’s why the comment treads are so long. I understand that the writers are not professionals. If my life depended on being able to spell correctly, I would have died several times over in one day. I also agree that calling it out in the comments is not the best move. But if your offering a product, even if it is a free blog, I think you should want to produce the best quality.

by brogshan on Dec 2, 2010 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

That is another good point

I come here to not read their crappy writing…

by brogshan on Dec 2, 2010 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

True enough

I come here before WEEI, MLBTR, and ESPN. I have never had an issue with front page writing though.

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Doesn't Chass have a blog that he doesn't call a blog?

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Dec 2, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

He doesn't write in from his mother's basement

So it’s not actually a blog.

Also, he’s dead.

by Sean O on Dec 2, 2010 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Let me do my best to address this in one comment:

While it’s certainly true that Over The Monster is a blog and neither a grammar class nor a newspaper, SBN does strive to provide both the professional quality of other news outlets as well as the strong community of a blog. While (as Bloggy suggests) I would have preferred for this to have been brought up in an E-Mail first, that doesn’t excuse the problem.

My first goal when Randy handed over control of the site was to bring in more authors to provide you all with more content. And while we’ve succeeded in that goal, it’s unacceptable to sacrifice quality for quantity. I’m as guilty as anyone here, keeping too close a watch on page views while overlooking the front page. It’s not fair to you, or to the legacy of quality Randy left.

While obviously having someone fill the thankless position of “copy editor” on a site which relies on volunteers isn’t reasonably possible, we will find a way to solve the problem.

Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG

by Ben Buchanan on Dec 2, 2010 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't do it - I think the FO would be better off trading prospects for Upton

He is much younger and would have more upside and it would not break the bank or the farm -

I would rather see Upton and Beltre than Crawford.

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Dec 2, 2010 11:39 AM EST reply actions  

You said it, brother...
I would rather see Upton and Beltre than Crawford.

Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."

by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 2, 2010 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 2, 2010 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

I am not interested in over-paying for either Crawford OR Werth.

Both are fine players. But not GREAT players. But they are commanding ‘GREAT’ player prices simply by the accident that they are the best OF FAs in this particular year.

I would rather give up prospects for Upton and overpay for Beltre. Overpaying for a 3B who will, even if his bat (likely) slumps back from last year will still give you elite corner infield defense is far more palatable.

I would give up quite a bit for Upton, too. He’s a stud.

by mmmmm on Dec 2, 2010 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Lefty Overload

I’d guess the Sox have set their limit on Crawford, and it will be one most of us can live with, whether or not it’s enough to get him. I predict 6 years plus options, annual value a hair under $20 million. If he gets a better offer (and he probably will), they’ll let him go.

And as much as I’d be happy to see Crawford on the Sox, I worry it would dissuade the front office from going after A-Gon for fear of making our line-up way too lefthanded.

What do you guys think?

by alfredo on Dec 2, 2010 12:16 PM EST reply actions  

Check his splits!

Last season for A Gon
against lefties .337 BA .424 OBP .513 SP
against righties .278 BA .377 OBP .510 SP

I think he hits lefties ok.

simul justus et peccator

by cavman on Dec 2, 2010 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

2006 is the only other year Gonzalez hit lefties better than righties

2007-2009 there was a noticeable drop off between RHP and LHP for him.

by South Coast Ghost on Dec 2, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah absurdly high BABIP against lefties last year

which seems unlikely to continue, but if he’s figured out a way to sustain a 26.5% LD rate against lefties, good on him!

by wolf9309 on Dec 2, 2010 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Optimistically

Let’s think about what Crawford can actually do. He will be pretty much the best fielding LF since Duffy, so I think there’s a decent chance he could revolutionize the way the wall is played. There were stories about how Tris Speaker had such range that he could play closer to 2B than CF. Maybe we can try the same thing with Carl.

After all, he knows the wall already.

by Sean O on Dec 2, 2010 1:21 PM EST reply actions  

I know Crawford doesn't want to play CF...

…but aside from that, why isn’t the possibility being given further consideration? He seems like he has the speed and skills to do well in center (and his bat would be significantly more valuable there than in left), but I haven’t heard a peep about teams considering him for the position.

by Tarrsk on Dec 2, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

He seems to say he doesn't want to

But I’m wondering if the 8 year deals will happen unless he goes CF. He is a CF type player, I just wish he would embrace that. 5 years in Center, 3 years in Left = 8 glorious years I’d be happy to throw $20 at.

by Sean O on Dec 2, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe he doesn't feel that he's as good in CF as LF

I know it’s a small sample, but Crawford’s CF numbers are not as good as those in LF. What’s interesting is he gets negative numbers for range in CF. Maybe he doesn’t pick up the ball as well in CF.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Dec 2, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

That makes him very similar to Ellsbury, doesn't it ? (SSS notwithstanding)

It makes sense to me that it would be much easier to pick up the arc of the ball off the bat from the corner outfield positions as opposed to centre field.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Dec 2, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah. I know.

But I was feeling very Canadian at that moment for some reason. :p

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Dec 2, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Sure, it makes sense

But you figure if we get Crawford, we’re not getting Upton, and therefore we keep Ellsbury for the time being (and also Cameron, somehow). Between the two of them, and the still-underrated Drew in RF, we’re talking some serious range. Try Crawford and Ellsbury out in center, with the belief that one of them can handle it without Manny Ramirez or Jason Bay as the full time LF, and see what develops. You may end up with a Crawford CF for a few years.

by Sean O on Dec 2, 2010 4:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Bottom line

Eight years is too many for Carl Crawford. Speed is a huge asset to Crawford and there’s no way he’ll be as fast in eight years. It’s not like he’s a batter with a great eye — something that doesn’t really change over time.

I like Crawford, but I would go no more than five years for him.

SB Nation's Boston Red Sox community:
OverTheMonster.com
Follow this guy on Twitter: @RCBooth

by Randy Booth on Dec 2, 2010 1:35 PM EST reply actions  

Well, do you want him or not?

It is GOING TO BE A LONG TIME. Get that in your heads, then decide if you want him or not. There are no, “If it was five years….” in this buisness. Someone will pay for him that has less revenue than Boston.

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Huh?
There are no, "If it was five years…." in this buisness.

Really? The Sox would have signed VMart for two years. They didn’t want him at four, so he walked. Smart organizations always put a limit on how long they are willing to pay. Just because another team might be willing to give Crawford 8 years doesn’t mean the Sox have to, if they don’t think it’s wise.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Dec 2, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Smart organizations limit years

when nessacary. Without Crawford or Werth, where will this team be? Third, fourth place? They need a hitter, and have to commit.

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Even if they sign Werth or Crawford, it's no guarantee that they'll finish better than 3rd

There are no guarantees. Games aren’t won or lost on paper. Let’s get that out of the way.

It’s always necessary to try to spend wisely. The Sox would be much better next year if Vic was catching. They might be better in 2012 too. But after that it’s a crapshoot, and the Sox balked at more than 2 years. The Sox aren’t just trying to win next year.

The Sox could conceivably win the division next year without either Werth or Crawford—especially, if they’re healthy and their pitching bounces back. Take a look at last season’s Rays team again; and then remember that they somehow won the AL East.

If the Sox feel Werth or Crawford want too much money or too many years, they’d be wise to pass on both.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Dec 2, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Key

“The Sox aren’t just trying to win next year.”

That is the key part. That has always been Theo’s philosophy. He wants to win in 2011, sure, but he’s not going to sacrifice 2012, ‘13, ’14, ’15’, etc., for one season. He’s going to build this team as a whole to compete year in and year out.

SB Nation's Boston Red Sox community:
OverTheMonster.com
Follow this guy on Twitter: @RCBooth

by Randy Booth on Dec 2, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey, I know you.

Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."

by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 2, 2010 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

He misses us.

Who can blame him?

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Dec 2, 2010 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Group hug?

If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 2, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions  

How about a high five instead?

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Dec 3, 2010 2:34 AM EST up reply actions  

HUG ME!

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Dec 3, 2010 7:18 AM EST up reply actions  

yikes

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Dec 3, 2010 7:34 AM EST up reply actions  

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr......

……I said hug me……..

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Dec 3, 2010 8:06 AM EST up reply actions  

my quote was from Tommy Boy:

Farley: “Richard, hold me”
Spade: “yikes”

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Dec 3, 2010 8:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Ha ha ha...love that move.

I was goin’ for a Homer Simpson kind of thing there at the end.

OK, so ends the Hug Thread.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Dec 3, 2010 8:14 AM EST up reply actions  

yup what do you think the chances on Beltre are?

And, if Beltre signs elsewhere should the FO go hard after Upton and/or Werth or Crawford.

Upton plus one of those two would set the OF for the future

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Dec 3, 2010 8:19 AM EST up reply actions  

I still think the chances of Beltre are slim

But I’m holding out hope. After that, I really think they’ll go after Werth. I think he fits best.

I don’t know, though. I don’t necessarily see the Upton deal getting done. He’ll require a lot to get done, and Theo holds on tight to his precious youth.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Dec 3, 2010 9:03 AM EST up reply actions  

The Messiah is Back

LAWLZ.

"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire

The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site

by Raj Ghetia on Dec 2, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Wait, Wasn't LAST year the birdge year?

A team of the Red Sox stature should not sacrafice seasons. With a few moves, they can win a World Series, and is that not the goal?

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 4:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I fixed it for you:
With a few no panic moves, they can win a multiple World Series, and is that not the goal?

Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."

by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 2, 2010 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

So no signing good players is panicing?

Did the Yankees panic when they signed Teixiera?

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Yup

Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."

by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 2, 2010 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

And did they win a World Series?

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

They won one because they had CC Sabathia

How did their first baseman do in the playoffs this year?

Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."

by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 2, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

OK

Was CC Sabathia a panic move? You could say the same thing.
And I’ve seen enough people here crying that Boston did not get Teixiera.

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

No

The MFY needed starting pitching. Cash Cow was the best available starter, and one of the best in the game.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Dec 2, 2010 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

OK, The Red Sox need a bat

and Werth is the best available starter.

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I want Werth a lot to

but it does need to come down to the price and years. If it comes to “We NEED to sign this guy or else” then they get locked into paying way too much for declining players.

by wolf9309 on Dec 2, 2010 4:39 PM EST up reply actions  

OK, what is the next option?

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Well you have Beltre, Crawford and Upton definitely available

Could probably get Gonzalez, could probably get McGehee. Etc. There’s tons of players available if their cost is judged to be less to the Red Sox over time than signing a Werth contract.

I’d rather see them field that lineup you posted and probably not be competitive this year than I would see them waste future resources which could keep them out of competition for years.

by wolf9309 on Dec 2, 2010 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Upton will NEVER happen

Why give up players when you just have to pay money?
And rather see them not competitive? We are not front office people; We are fans. I understand they have to think of their future, but NEVER sacrafice a season when you could WIN IT ALL.
And they seemed happy to sign Beckett and risk their future rotation.

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I feel like you're entirely missing my arguments

and arguing stupid little insignificant parts of what I say. I’ve never said I want them to not be competitive. Of course I want them to win and next year. And that’s doable through a variety of different ways. Werth is likely to be the easiest way to do it.
What I’m saying is I don’t want the future to be handcuffed because they NEED to outbid everyone for Werth. That’s how stupid contracts happen.

by wolf9309 on Dec 2, 2010 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Like Beckett? And Drew?

They’ve happened. This team is not afraid of it. If this were the Twins, yeah. But this team can afford it.

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, they also offered him millions more than anyone else

Besides which Yankees finances =/= other baseball teams finances. If anyone wants to get in a dollar for dollar slugfest with the Yankees, they’re going to have to depend on luck to win anything…

Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."

by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 2, 2010 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

The MFY do not want Werth

So that makes the Red Sox the highest market team. Someone will pay him, probably with less revenue than Boston.

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Sure...

…so we should pay more? If the Cubs offer Werth a million-billion dollars for a thousand year contract we should go for thirty-two million-billion dollars for eleventy-three thousand years?

Why? Because he’s shiny and we can?

 Hopefully we can all hold onto that feeling of joy when Werth signs in the year 5045 when we have a pile of dust being paid to patrol left field.

Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."

by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 2, 2010 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

That is unrealistic

Point in case; if a lowe rmarket team can offer Werth the money, so can the Red Sox.
Unless they get Crawford.

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

just because they CAN doesn't mean they SHOULD

ask Toronto how they feel about Vernon Wells.

Or, for big market teams, ask the Cubs how they feel about Soriano. Or ANY of their players.

by wolf9309 on Dec 2, 2010 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

it is different here

The Red Sox can compete for the World Series.
Answer this; Money and years aside, do you want Werth?

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

those teams thought they could have too when they signed those contracts

yeah, I want Werth, I’ve said that countless times. I think he’s the best fit by far.

by wolf9309 on Dec 2, 2010 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

OK

You realize he will NOT get six years from anyone?
Five years. I am fine with that. And if someone is not, they are not commited to winning the world series.

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

He will not get six years

That is Boras throwing out numbers.

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

BBS, never underestimate the stupidity of the Tigers

They may give Werth everything he’s asking for. If Detroit gets Werth it’s a disaster for the Sox, who will lose the #19 pick they got for VMart. Boston would end up with no catcher and a second-round pick.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Dec 2, 2010 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

In a vaccuum? Sure.

With our current outfield situation? No.

If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 2, 2010 5:38 PM EST up reply actions  

This.

Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.

by Frederick0220 on Dec 2, 2010 8:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Sabathia wasn't a panic move

he was a 28 year old stud pitcher who fit the Yankees needs exactly

by wolf9309 on Dec 2, 2010 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Kind of like how Werth fits the Red Sox's needs?

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah exactly like that

but see below. It can’t be the Sox need him no matter what or they’ll sign him to a stupid deal. That’s not the case. The case is Werth would be very helpful to the team if they can find common ground on the price and deal length

by wolf9309 on Dec 2, 2010 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

yes but they need to make intelligent decisions

and make signings that won’t become albatross contracts that keep us from winning in multiple future years.

by wolf9309 on Dec 2, 2010 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

They won with the Lugo contract

They can afford to sometimes. You take the risk with Werth.

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Yup

That’s the model you want to keep repeating.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Dec 2, 2010 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Those aren't the same risk

the difference is potentially massive. Like more than double the money commited over more years

by wolf9309 on Dec 2, 2010 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Are you satisfied with this lineup?

CF Ellsbury
2B pedroia
DH ortiz
1B Youkilis
RF Drew
3B Lowrie
C Salty
SS Scutaro
LF Kalish
If you are, great. because that’s what you’re asking for.

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Tell me who is

Ryan chucrch? gabe Gross? Austin Kearns? jeremy hermida? Brad Hawpe?

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Remember, for this year, outfield is not a necessity

it becomes a necessity next year. For now, we have three outfielders as well as viable backups in AAA and the ability to bring back Darnell as a 4th outfielder. The offense could be upgraded by signing Beltre and having Lowrie at short all year, it could be upgraded by trading for a first baseman and moving Youk to third, and having Lowrie at short all year.
It can even be upgraded by having half of our starting 9 stay healthy for most of the year.

by wolf9309 on Dec 2, 2010 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

So you would prefer McDonald to Werth?

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

You said he is an option

and have been arguing against Werth.

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

no, see this is what I'm saying

you’re completely missing my actual argument. I have not here or anywhere, EVER argued against Werth. I’ve argued against outbidding everyone else, not matter the cost.

McDonald would not be the alternative to Werth. The offense would need to be upgraded elsewhere.

by wolf9309 on Dec 2, 2010 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Casey McGehee? Chase Headley?

Adrian Beltre? Justin Upton? Russel Martin? Grady Sizemore? Brennan Boesch?

If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 2, 2010 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh I’d love Boesch.

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 6:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Why?

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Dec 2, 2010 6:30 PM EST up reply actions  

he can really hit HRs

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Dec 2, 2010 7:43 PM EST up reply actions  

cuz he had like 2 amazing months?

after not doing anything in the minors for years…

Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.

by Frederick0220 on Dec 2, 2010 8:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Honestly

It’s good enough.

We weren’t too bad this year sporting lineups like:
1B: Lowell
2B: Scoot
SS: Lowrie
3B: Beltre
C: Victor
LF: McDonald
CF: Hall
RF: Drew

Our team isn’t in dire straights here. Just getting back our health makes us a markedly improved team. Cameron when healthy is a very good ball player, people have forgotten that. Ellsbury is an upgrade over Kalish and McDonald as well. Youkilis, Pedrioa, you can’t deny having those two back will be a huge improvement. Hell, Beltre to Lowrie isn’t as big of a jump as most fear and Scoot when he was healthy was playing almost as well as he did for the Jays.

That isn’t as horrible a situation as you’re making it out to be.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Dec 2, 2010 5:20 PM EST up reply actions  

That's not a "terrible" team

especiallly if the rotation pitches to their skill level

by BobZupcic on Dec 2, 2010 5:31 PM EST up reply actions  

True

But, it’s unlikely Kalish would start over Cameron.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Dec 2, 2010 5:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Ummmm, no.

They would finish 1st/2nd place without Crawford and Werth.

Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.

by Frederick0220 on Dec 2, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

you mean could

though some other moves will still have to happen

by wolf9309 on Dec 2, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Slippery slope fallacies are wonderful things, aren't they BBS?

The Sox still have JD Drew and Mike Cameron for this year, which is one more year for Kalish and Reddick to develop, one more year for Towers to decide if he really wants to trade Upton, and one more year to see if Jose Bautista is the real deal. The Sox will be fine without either player.

If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 2, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd balk at Bautista

Alex Gonzalez was hitting bombs for that team, I think it’s their new hitting philosophy that made the difference, one that I think might not translate here.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Dec 2, 2010 5:21 PM EST up reply actions  

But my point still stands

That saying “If the Sox don’t sign Werth, then the offense will die, if the offense dies then the Sox end up in 4th place.” is ridiculous. There are several other options out there other than Werth.

If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 2, 2010 5:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh I wasn't arguing your point

I’m just getting my anti-Toronto player propaganda machine going a year early.

It is by no means the end of the Red Sox if both Crawford and Werth sign elsewhere. We have a deep farm system that currently has a lot of players in positions we have little need for and a deficit where we have need. It might be time to send some of them away. I’ve argued before that it isn’t Theo’s way but it might be time for it to be his way.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Dec 2, 2010 5:50 PM EST up reply actions  

As have I

Especially dealing redundant players like Lars and Reddick when we have Kalish and Rizzo waiting in the wings. Doubront when we have Kelly, Expo, and Ibarra when we have Lavarnway. So on and so forth.

The Sox CAN put together packages to get both Soto and Upton if they wanted to.

If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 2, 2010 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Packages for those guys wouldn't start with players like Anderson, Reddick, Doubront, and Expo

they’d be starting with players like Lowrie, Bard, and Ellsbury. I’m sure they could acquire Upton; I’m not sure that it wouldn’t make the 2011 team worse.

by wolf9309 on Dec 2, 2010 6:04 PM EST up reply actions  

There are currently only about 3 or 4 players I wouldn't part with

Lowrie is my sole untouchable. Rizzo and Kelly I would balk at and Lavarnway I’d give it some thought. Beyond that though? It wouldn’t break my heart to lose any of the prospects/young players.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Dec 2, 2010 6:09 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

Although, I’d make Buch untouchable as well.

If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 2, 2010 9:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh him too of course.

I’ve got him in the Pedrioa/Youkilis/Lester “Ain’t goin’ no where” club of former prospects.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Dec 2, 2010 9:37 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

Ditto.
Whut ’e sed.
This.
Yup.

(I do like Bard a ton as well, but in the right deal I’d move any bullpen pitcher, even him.)

by mmmmm on Dec 2, 2010 11:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I would make Buchholz available

for Upton and Chris Young. And that’s it.

Ok, maybe Zimmerman and Strasburg. But nobody else.

by Sean O on Dec 3, 2010 10:01 AM EST up reply actions  

What are you talking about?

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Dec 2, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Umm, there are if's...If you take 5 years then you will be here...if you are looking for 8 years then you will not...
There are no, "If it was five years…." in this buisness.

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Dec 3, 2010 12:46 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm concerned that Crawford/Werth appear to be the stand-out FA OFs in the projectable future...

… and that the price and years are going to be pushed through the roof by bidding teams to the point that neither is palatable. I like both players, I’d just rather have Kalish + the Sox’ first rounder than either Werth at 6/$17MM or Crawford at 8/$20MM

Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."

by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 2, 2010 3:20 PM EST reply actions  

let's keep in mind

that those are their initial asking prices. They are sure to both fall to a degree- I’m guessing Werth could fall further than Crawford. Always gotta ask for more than you’ll get or you’ll settle for less than you want.

by wolf9309 on Dec 2, 2010 3:55 PM EST up reply actions  

True...

… I was concerned because these guys appear so primed to attract multiple bidders that someone stupid or desperate is going to make an unreasonable offer. I just hope we aren’t the stupid or desperate party – or we don’t take their title by then upping the ante.

Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."

by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 2, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

For sure

Werth won’t get six years.

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Contract Negotiation Tactics?

So could it be Theo & Co are going back and forth with Crawford and Werth? It’s been reported Werth wants a 6 year deal whereas Crawford wants an 8 year deal. So perhaps they want to see who will be cheaper overall in the end and go that way?

My theory (and it’s been said elsewhere, 98.5 SportsHub for example) is that Red Sox Management needs to make amends for completely whiffing on the Mark Teixera signing. Heck, we could go as far as saying it goes all the way back to losing Johnny Damon to the Yankees. TV ratings have slipped and the general consensus is that ownership needs/wants to make a big-name signing. As it’s been said: “chicks dig the long ball;” this would be similar to that. Ownership has been a bit mixed in regards to all this, but they all know what’s at stake here.

So expect either Crawford or Werth to be a member of the Red Sox in 2011.

I just hope beyond hope it’s not super long deal. Honestly, if you had to pick a poison, I’d prefer picking a shorter deal that’s more expensive year to year than being stuck in a super long deal.

"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire

The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site

by Raj Ghetia on Dec 2, 2010 3:41 PM EST reply actions  

I'll take my amends...

…in the form of Adrian Gonzalez in 2012.

Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."

by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 2, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

baseball-wise it's not a good reason

But lets remember what this is really. It’s a business. Theo’s real job is not NECESSARILY to build a good ball club- it is more specifically to put together a product that will keep people coming to games/watching NESN/paying $7.75 per beer. Just usually the most effective way to keep people interested is to have a winning playoff team. So these decisions do factor into it.
So building a good baseball team is a very important thing, but when ratings are slipping, it is also important for him to do it in a way that will keep the average fan interested in the team.

This is not necessarily what baseball fan/statheads want to hear, but it is the truth.

by wolf9309 on Dec 3, 2010 10:20 AM EST up reply actions  

the trouble with this grammar garbage is

that it is based on the english language

and we speak american here

so no one knows the rules

This is the sort of bloody nonsense up that with which I will not put.

does this effectively affect your opinion?

Devotees of grammatical studies have not been distinguished for any very remarkable felicities of expression. ~Bronson Alcott

by Mick Lowe on Dec 2, 2010 5:28 PM EST reply actions  

I study grammar daily, and I can tell you no one follows the rules.

Watch The Internet Sport Show
Help get Lacrosse on SBN. Join the lacrosse community at The Lacrosse Blog
"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson

by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 2, 2010 6:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

we don't remember them

writing gives someone a freedom similar to an artist’s. the more restrictions put upon us, the more we will resist.

so some blogger today, could be tomorrow’s picasso.

then again, maybe not.

we start kids off by telling them which color it is they see, what crayon to use
then which adjective
then how to think

then they grow up voting for jeter as a golden glove winner.
(Ben, i did not say anything about voting for christine o’donnell, so i’m good right?)

by Mick Lowe on Dec 2, 2010 7:16 PM EST up reply actions  

"And, now back to our regulary scheduled Sports Blog..."

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Dec 3, 2010 12:50 AM EST up reply actions  

could've fooled me

Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.

by Frederick0220 on Dec 2, 2010 8:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Please, keep studying and eventually you will have a breakthrough... ;)

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Dec 3, 2010 12:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Over the Monster, an SB Nation community that delivers news and analysis while encouraging discussion regarding everything Boston Red Sox. OTM was founded Feb. 22, 2005.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Einstein_small
OTM Fantasy: Week 7
Einstein_small
OTM Fantasy: Week 6

Recent FanPosts

Pedroialazers2_small
The possibility of trading Kevin Youkilis
Moar_bacon_small
PSA vs. OTM Fantasy Smackdown Update
Small
The Curious Case of Daniel Nava
Rsz_ashleyspade_small
Top Red Sox Prospects
Einstein_small
OTM Fantasy: Week 5
Small
Mariano Rivera and TS Elliot and maybe Robert Frost
Small
Rivera has torn ACL
Einstein_small
OTM Fantasy Leagues Discussion

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Yahoo_full_count

Managers

Red_seat_small Ben Buchanan

Twitter_eb_2_small Marc Normandin

Authors

Lowrie__1234972975_0178-1_small lone1c

Jddrew_small gizmosandy

Pedoria1_small Mattsullivan

Baghead-1_small Matthew Kory

Photo__2__small BrendanOToole

Cee_small Cee Angi