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On Adrian Gonzalez

 That's right.  I said the dreaded name.  Everyone is allowed to hate on me now all they want, but for all of the discussion that goes on about Adrian Gonzalez, I think he deserves to have his own discussion here.

Everyone here, no doubt knows about the great Red Sox Nation fancrush on Gonzalez, and there's a good reason why it exists.  He's young, he's a good defender, he seems like a genuiely nice guy.  The type of guy that can be a real franchise player.  Oh yeah, and he can hit pretty well.

After the jump I'm gonna take a quick look here at just why Red Sox Nation is all lovey-dovey about this guy.

Star-divide

Everyone knows the basics.  He's a very good hitter.  Really, VERY good.  While his overall numbers are pretty good (.298/.393/.511/.904), you really start to get a good idea of how good a hitter he is when he leaves The cavernous Petco Pitcher's Paradise Park (this year, away, he hit a staggering .314/.401/.576/.977). 

If those numbers make you think of anyone in particular, it's probably because they're the spitting image of how Kevin Youkilis was performing last year (.307/.411/.564/.975).  Even the BB:K numbers are incredibly similar (.82 BB/K ratio, 13.3 BB% for Gonzalez; .87 BB/K ratio, 13.4 BB% for Youk). 

Imagine a lineup where we have Youk hitting in the three hole, but after him, batting cleanup is none other than Youk.  Pretty cool, right?

Of course there's some fears.  I've seen all kinds of responses, including "fenway isn't exactly the kindest place to left-handed hitters."  So let me quell that worry quickly in picture form (if these are hard to read, you can get them in the hit chart section of his profile on mlb.com)

I want to remind you when you look at these that as a left handed hitter, left field is going the other way.

2010

 Capture_petco_medium

 Agon09_medium

Agon08_medium

If you're salivating a little, it's because you're a Red Sox fan who, in your mind, has already overlaid these pictures over the next one:

 Fenway_medium

Not only is he a left-handed hitter with power to all fields, but he's a left-handed hitter with a TON of power to all fields, especially to left field.  His OPS when he hit to left field in 2010 was a staggering 1.335- now imagine what happens to that number when left field is about 25 feet closer all the way to center field.  He could make Jose Bautista look like Luis Castillo.

The other argument I've heard is that Youk isn't going to be able to defend third base.  Now lets get this straight.  Youk is an incredible first baseman.  He's also been quite a good third baseman who probably not as good as he was before.  He's also 31, which means that his range will probably be declining.  He's unlikely to be a defensive wizard at third base (although really, UZR has him at +6.9 in about 200 games there), but he's probably also not going to be damaging the team.  Gonzalez is also quite a good defensive first baseman, so I see no real reason they would not be the corners of a more-than-competent infield.

Some crazy people (like myself) are hoping that we re-sign Beltre, and say that will leave nowhere to put him!  This is simply incorrect since we are in the American League and have a DH spot.  Youk is probably the better defender, so Gonzalez would probably be stuck DHing or playing first if Youk got hurt.  I realize some people will say that DHs come so cheap, there's no way you want to be paying $20 million/year to a DH.  To those people, I would like to again point to the pictures above.  When you have a chance to add a bat which is SO perfectly made for Fenway on such a great hitter, you find a way to get him in the lineup.  DH's are usually cheap because the type of players who are usually DHs are aging sluggers in their decline who can't play anywhere else, not all-star players in their prime.

Now, let me clarify my baseball love for Agon by saying that there is a caveat.  Well, two actually.

First of all is that he is a free agent after the 2011 season.  There is no good reason to trade away every good prospect for him when he'll just hit free agency in a year.  It is in his best interest to hit free agency, where he can have teams bid for him and drive his price up.  The only reason it would make sense for him to sign an extension with the a team would be if they offer him an above-market deal to start with (which is a LOT for a player like this).  If at the trade deadline, he's on the trading block and the price isn't absurd, I'd say go for it, but no need to sell the whole farm just to have him a bit earlier than we'd be able to anyways.

Second of all is that yes, he is injured.  He just had surgery to clean up his right (so non-throwing) shoulder labrum, and there's a chance he won't be game ready by opening day.  It's not huge surgery and he should be able to bounce back, but before I get too crazy excited about him, I do want to make sure that he's the same hitter he's always been.

So what do you think?  Is he worth fitting into the Red Sox long-term plans?

Comment 92 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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Trade for Adrian Gonzalez

with the caveat that we get a week negotiation window for an extension. Don’t give up the farm for him, since you need the farm for Upton. Sign him for 5 or 6 years. Smile.

by Sean O on Dec 1, 2010 11:21 AM EST reply actions  

This makes no sense

“Trade for Adrian Gonzalez” + “Don’t give up the farm.”

Who exactly would you propose Jed Hoyer take in return then?

by L33to II on Dec 1, 2010 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

For a player with a single season left on his contract that is injured?

Trade for Gonzo if you can get him for a reasonable price. If it approaches what we’re expected to give for Upton, don’t do it. Gonzo is very very good, but Upton is the ultimate prize this offseason.

by Sean O on Dec 1, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

He had surgury

He is not expected to miss any time. Hoyer can’t take Reddick back for him. So, I’d wait for his FA year.

But if we sign Werth to a big contract, he’ll end up DHing when it is all said and done (but other parts of the line up could change). I’m not excited about giving him 6-7 years even though he adds RH power the line up. I’d rather pay AGon big bucks.

simul justus et peccator

by cavman on Dec 1, 2010 11:58 AM EST up reply actions  

If Werth is really going for 5 or more

Then Gonzalez/Upton is definitely a better solution, even if we leave with a barren farm system.

by Sean O on Dec 1, 2010 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree.

Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.

by Frederick0220 on Dec 2, 2010 12:47 AM EST up reply actions  

it would be awesome

the risk, in my mind, is that Upton doesn’t just leave us with a barren farm system, it also creates holes on the major league roster. I imagine that Lowrie, Ellsbury, and Bard would have to be included in the deal, and I feel like that would hurt us more than it would help us. The thing is, the DBs don’t really have any interest in trading Upton unless they can look back at it and say “well, we swindled them”

by wolf9309 on Dec 2, 2010 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

I really think the Upton idea

Has gotten out of hand. There is absolutely no reason for the DBacks to trade him. They’ll need somebody to bring in fans, and if he pans out (like everyone hopes), he will most likely bring in a similar package in two years.

by brogshan on Dec 2, 2010 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

right which is why to trade him, they want a package that will make their team better overall NOW

as well as later. They want to replace one star with several good players, including some star potential, as well as prospects. The asking price is and should be ridiculous. If any team is able to come up with a package that makes sense to both sides for Upton, then either Towers or some other GM is doing their job horribly. I still think the only team that could make any kind of sense is if the Royals got a three team thing going on involving Greinke, and Upton has a no trade clause to KC anyways.

by wolf9309 on Dec 2, 2010 11:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Only go for Gonzalez if we don't get Beltre.

In fact, I think I would prefer going for Gonzalez over getting Beltre. And yes, make sure you get a nice long-term extension for him.

by ThePanda on Dec 1, 2010 11:39 AM EST reply actions  

That's like saying

“Only have a steak if the roadkill isn’t quite dead.”

by Sean O on Dec 1, 2010 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Forget about an extension

Why would A-Gon accept an extension, outside of Texieria money, now or during the season? Any team offering an extension is going to want a discount and why would he take it? If I’m A-Gon’s agent, I advise him to test FA at this point. The Red Sox, Angels, Mets, three wealthy teams are all likely to be in bidding along with a few others (Braves, Seattle, Rangers), and that will be plenty of bidders.
They only way to get a discounted extension is to buy out arbitration years when a player is 2-3 years away from FA.

by Scoop1981 on Dec 1, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

Trade for Upton, sign Agon next off-season. Our biggest competitor on the open market would be the Mets, but we can offer a legit shot at a ring and that sweet sweet porch in LF.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Dec 1, 2010 11:02 PM EST up reply actions  

With him being injured/one year left I'm not sure teams will be willing to give the Padres what they want

I think they’ll most likely hold on to him until at least the deadline and see how they’re doing.

Don’t think he’ll really mind either. He can get a 7 year deal once he’s an FA.

Of course, it only takes one GM…

by South Coast Ghost on Dec 1, 2010 11:51 AM EST reply actions  

Bavasi AND Minaya are gone!

Who’s going to make the gigantic dumbass moves now?

by Sean O on Dec 1, 2010 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

I'd say Dayton Moore

But I think he’ll be too busy trying to sign Jeff Francouer this offseason.

by South Coast Ghost on Dec 1, 2010 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Agree

Also, the Padres show a willingness to compete; they are not the Pirates. They made a couple of moves in the middle of the season to help the team and obvioulsy didn’t trade A-Gon.

by Scoop1981 on Dec 1, 2010 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Why does everyone assume SD will take less for him right now?

Gonzalez is, by far, Jed Hoyer’s most valuable asset. The NLW is a weak division which they have every reason to think they have a shot at. SD knows full well they cannot resign him and after 11 he is gone. Their options therefore are:

1. Start 11 with him. Contend, get to playoffs. He walks after regardless. Comp picks in return.
2. Start 11 with him. Go belly up. Trade him for reduced return as he is essentially a rental with additional cost in players given up, when you could wait for his FA. That would be SD’s weakest negotiating position.
3. Trade him before the start of 11. Right now is SD’s strongest negotiating position. They don’t have to do anything unless they are blown away. In other words they aren’t taking scraps. Hoyer will want MLB-ready, cost-controlled, productive players, or A-level prospects. Obviously given his former position here he knows exactly who those prospects are, nobody is going to foist a Dusty Brown on him. What reason would they have for taking B-level prospects right now? They might as well let him walk and use the picks to get said prospects in the first place.

by L33to II on Dec 1, 2010 12:06 PM EST reply actions  

BC

the Padres get more if they trade A-Gon now v. in July. The Red Sox will not wait until July to fill either the 3B or 1B position. In fact if the Sox sign Adrian Beltre, the Padres are screwed bc the number of teams with an open 1B position and the willingness to extend A-Gon at Teixeira type money just dropped to possibly the Mariners, the Rangers and maybe the Braves.

Not a great group to try and get max prospects. Not to mention Prince Fielder sitting in the background, asking for Boras type contract and wanting young pitching in return (which the Sox have a large amount of in the minors).

Also, Hoyer knows the Red Sox system and most likely knows which players in our system he likes and which he will try and stay away from.

Until Beltre signs, the Red Sox have all the power in this negotiations.

Also the Padres are not making the playoffs, I said this in 2010 and everyone scoffed at it in July, but the Padres didnt make the playoffs.

by SoxAcumen on Dec 1, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Largely agree with you

I don’t think its correct to assume that the return is higher now than at the deadline though. The need for teams on the threshhold may be higher, the potential payoff more likely and the draft pick payoff is nearer.

You could be right though with the situation with good hitting 1st base/DH types available now or soon.

I don’t see the Padres competing either.

by Salty on Dec 1, 2010 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

The Padres won 90 games last year

on the back of a great, young pitching staff. They’ll be competing.

If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 1, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

sure sure

but they didnt make the playoffs and just lost Chris Young and Jon Garland to FA. Yes, their young staff has potential but with two big pieces to the rotation gone and Miguel Tejada gone as well. Padres will not win the NL West.

by SoxAcumen on Dec 1, 2010 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Chris Young didn't really play that much last year.

And yes, Garland hurt, but I think De La Rosa can put up the same type of numbers if the Padres sign him. Remember, they were 10 games ahead of the Giants BEFORE picking up Miguel Tejada. Chase Headley turned a corner around the deadline as well, I think they’ll definitely compete, if not win the West.

If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 1, 2010 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Did he really?

I’m sure the Pads will sign one of those low-risk, high reward guys.

If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 1, 2010 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, just the other day, kind of got covered over by the whole Tulo extension

But I don’t see why the Padres shouldn’t have a chance to compete.

by wolf9309 on Dec 1, 2010 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep

The Rockies signed him for 2 years at $21.5 million and a player option for a third year. If De La Rosa picks up the option in year three, the Rockies get a team option for a 4th year. (All years are between 10 and 11 million)

This signing went under the radar because it happened the same day the Rockies extended Tulo’s contract.

121 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2010 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Half their position players are unknown right now and I don’t think they’re spending big bucks. Guys like Clayton Kershaw and Wade LeBlanc are nice to have to fill out a rotation, but not to carry a team on their backs. I also don’t think their bullpen will be able to pull off as amazing year as they did.

by Salty on Dec 1, 2010 10:50 PM EST up reply actions  

They're still not as bad as everyone here seems to think they are. They'll definitely be in the thick of things in July.

If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 2, 2010 12:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Could be

I think you’re underselling the Rockies and the Dbacks starting pitching though.

by Salty on Dec 2, 2010 12:13 AM EST up reply actions  

I just don't like that people assume the Padres are going to collapse.

They’re a good, young team that finally put it together last year.

If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 2, 2010 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

"All the power"?

What power or leverage do the Red Sox have? First of all, the Padres are not making a deal contingent upon a contract extension for A-Gon. That would weaken their position and there is very little likelyhood A-Gon would sign for less than Texiera money anyway. If Beltre signs elsewhere and the Sox are left with Lowrie at 3B, the Sox would appear to be more desperate for a middle of the order bat. They just lost the #3 hitter and are likely to lose the #5/6 hitter, Beltre. If the Sox are a few games out in June and in need of offense, the pressure make a deal for A-Gon or Fielder will be intense.

I still say the Padres hang onto him now and may keep him through the season if they are in contention. If not, they flip him at July to the highest bidder and there will be plenty of teams interested. There is no doubt the Padres will have a larger list of trading partners in the offseason as teams can look to at least a full year of A-Gon’s services and many more teams believe they are in contention. The injury and surgery complicate the issue as teams will be pointing to that as a devaluator.

by Scoop1981 on Dec 1, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

and it's worth noting that although the Sox have the payroll advantage when he hits free agency

they have no advantage in trade, because if he does become available at the trade deadline, there are lower budget teams that would be willing to shell out to have him just for the one stretch run and then take the draft picks when he leaves

by wolf9309 on Dec 1, 2010 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, when he hits FA

until that, any leverage is held by the Padres. they hold the contract and they can do as they please and do business with any team or choose to not trade him.

If the Sox are really in love with A-Gon, they can outbid any team, especially with the Yankees not involved (presumably).

by Scoop1981 on Dec 1, 2010 5:54 PM EST up reply actions  

:-D
especially with the Yankees not involved (presumably).

Wouldn’t spending another $ 22MM on Gonzalez (and having 3 1B/DH types under contract for $ 72MM per year) lead directly to a salary cap?

Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."

by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 1, 2010 6:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Are you counting Jeter

as a 1B/DH type??

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Dec 1, 2010 7:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Whoops

should be 4 1B/DH types for $ 90MM per year.

Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."

by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 1, 2010 7:17 PM EST up reply actions  

PERFECT.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Dec 1, 2010 7:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Now why

would you move a gold-glove caliber SS to 1B?

by BobZupcic on Dec 1, 2010 9:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Because gold gloves are for hosers.

Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.

by Frederick0220 on Dec 2, 2010 12:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Again

why would the Sox over pay in prospects for A-gon when they still have two options available? They can sign Beltre or turn around and offer a package to Milwakee and extend Prince Fielder and get A-Gon-lite. Both of these moves would kill the Padres options of trading A-Gon.

Who will they trade A-Gon too or spin another team into giving more without Boston’s big ticket in the trade negotiations?

This is about options for both Boston and SD and right now Boston has more options than SD when it comes to A-Gon and 1B/3B positions.

When Beltre signs with another teams, this will change, but still with only trades for either A-Gon or Prince, Boston has the leverage bc they can pay them, while most teams cannot.

by SoxAcumen on Dec 1, 2010 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

prince isnt gonzo lite

he’s a disaster waiting to happen.

I disagree that the Sox have any leverage here. He’s a Teix type situation where someone would be willing to trade for a year of him at the price he is this year just to remain competitive this year and go for a title, then let him walk and take him draft picks. I don’t see why the Padres would even want to trade him now, obviously his value is hurt a bit by the injury and I don’t see his trade value at the deadline as all that much lower than it is now (which is why you usually see these types of players traded at the deadline). They gain more from trying to compete and then selling him off if they can’t.

by wolf9309 on Dec 1, 2010 2:37 PM EST up reply actions  

EXACTLY THIS:
They gain more from trying to compete and then selling him off if they can’t.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Dec 1, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't get where all of this "Padres Suck" crap is coming from.

They did just win 90 games last year without Kyle Blanks contributing much of anything, and with Chris Young out for pretty much the entire year. Latos is a stud, and Correia is pretty nuts as well. Their bullpen is lights-out, and their defense is phenomenal. If Blanks turns a corner offensively, or Ludwick figures out how to play in Petco they’re going to be a contender right up until the last week of the season, I can see them having another 90 win season.

If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 1, 2010 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Correia is gone as well

Defense up the middle, 2B, SS and CF are up in the air. I can’t remember what their catcher situation is.

I’m hoping Milwaukee signs Correia.

by Salty on Dec 1, 2010 10:56 PM EST up reply actions  

CF is Maybin's to take.

Everth Cabrera put together a good season in AAA as well I believe. Dont know if they’re giving him the starting job again after this year though.

If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 2, 2010 12:12 AM EST up reply actions  

The Sox can pay A-Gon

So What? what difference does that make to the Padres? I don’t think he has a no trade contract, so the Padres can trade to whichever team they choose for the best package, regardless of the other teams ability or willingness to sign A-Gon to a long-term deal.

by Scoop1981 on Dec 1, 2010 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Or they can keep him, as they should

and make a run at the division.

The Dodgers have pitching, but no offense or defense, the Rockies are decent, but probably not on the same level as the Pads/Giants, and the DBack’s pitching is terrible. They’ll be neck and neck with the Giants all season with no other real competition. Especially if they can sign someone like Duchserer or Webb.

If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 1, 2010 5:56 PM EST up reply actions  

The Dodgers have pitching, but no offense or defense

But if they sign Varitek, they’ll get hearty captainly goodness.

(I jest to hide my tears)

Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."

by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 1, 2010 7:19 PM EST up reply actions  

He'll play one year as a backup in LA

Realize he hates it, then become Boston’s Bullpen/Catching coach with a promise that he’ll succeed Tito as Boston’s next manager.

If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 1, 2010 10:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I am firmly in the camp

that says there is no reason to give up the farm for him for a one year rental.

I am firmly in the camp that says there is no reason for the Padres to unload Gonzalez for anything but a boatload of awesome, because they have every reason to believe they are contenders.

If we want and need him (if), we get him during free agency. Towards the trade deadline, if the Padres are doneski and we have a gaping hole that he fills, we revisit then.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Dec 1, 2010 1:31 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

ask Minnesota how that boat load of awesome turned out when they held Santana

and then ask Toronto how they like their new starting pitcher who is going into their rotation this season.

by SoxAcumen on Dec 1, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly

They held, and got nothing.

by Sean O on Dec 1, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I see your point, but

they’re not going to be frightened into taking too little for him now just because they think they will get too little for him later.

by wolf9309 on Dec 1, 2010 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Minnesota had a chance to compete

and were right to take that chance. It’s easy to look back and say, “Geez, that was stupid.” Toronto had less of a chance to compete, and so making that decision was easier to make.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Dec 1, 2010 3:07 PM EST up reply actions  

so you are sacraficing the 2011 season?

makes zero sense? DO you believe Beltre will sign a 1 year deal? Its now or never for the Sox when it comes to A-Gon, fielder or Beltre.

by SoxAcumen on Dec 1, 2010 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I am in no way, shape, or form "sacraficing the 2011 season".

Are you actually suggesting that the only way we can compete in 2011 is to acquire Adrian Gonzalez right now?

Its now or never for the Sox when it comes to A-Gon

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaactually, it’s now…or next year. Because he’s a free agent next year. NEXT YEAR. Who the @#$% said anything about Beltre signing a one year deal? What are you talking about?

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Dec 1, 2010 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Why is that?

if they can sign a big outfielder, boost the pen, and sign someone like Derrek Lee to a one year deal, that would be a very competitive, very good team. If Lee/other first baseman isn’t cutting it, then they could trade at the deadline.

Hell, I still would be all in favor of paying him what he wanted even if he was taking the DH slot.

by wolf9309 on Dec 1, 2010 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

"It's now or never"

No it’s not.

You should have learned your lesson from the King Felix discussions. Very little in baseball is so absolute.

Who can AND will A) give San Diego the big prospect package they want and B) offer A-Gon enough money to extend with them rather than wait a year and test FA?

by South Coast Ghost on Dec 1, 2010 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Does anything ever turn out the way anyone thinks?

Bloggers, fans or formulas – there are always surprises.

by Salty on Dec 1, 2010 11:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I only ask because it seems to make the most sense to me

The Red Sox have a guy in Bard who is more than capable of closing games and Papelbon is asking for $11.5 million. If it were me, I’d rather spend that money elsewhere but I wanted to know what Red Sox fans think.

121 more days until the Rockies Home Opener!!!!!!!

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Dec 1, 2010 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah personally I'd rather Bard stays where he is

and they spend that money on Soriano instead.

But hey, why would we want to spend all that money on a good closer when we already can spend it on a guy that will probably be a mediocre closer?

by wolf9309 on Dec 1, 2010 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah and that would be too bad

would prefer to not have it go to a divisional competitor, but that’s not a good enough reason in my book to spend $11 million on an OK closer when we could probably get a shutdown one for the same amount (albeit over more years).

Besides, we still got that sweet consolation #19 draft pick from the Tigers, so I’m pretty psyched about the drafting position no matter what happens from here on out. I guess unless the Tigers sign Werth.

by wolf9309 on Dec 1, 2010 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

but wouldn't we get

one back if Beltre signs elsewhere?

by BobZupcic on Dec 1, 2010 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

kind of

the teams besides the Sox that seem to really be interested and viable options (A’s and Angels) have protected draft picks. So we’d get a second rounder and a supplementary one, but it seems unlikely we’d get a first rounder for him.

by wolf9309 on Dec 1, 2010 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Extremely unlikely Papelbon would be NT'd

Considering Bard vs LHB is already Bad-Papelbon right now (5.11 FIP 09, 6.58 K/9 and 4.3 BB/9 2010). It is way premature to anoint him until he solves that issue.

Tender him a contract and all he costs is money, obviously he will walk after 2011 (almost certainly as a Type A) and take the picks.

by L33to II on Dec 1, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

This time could not sign Crawford and then turn around and sign Agonz next winter right?

The certified ambassador of all things good and great, here at OTM.
DO NOT OVERPAY FOR BELTRE !!!
TRADE ELLSBURY THIS WINTER !!!
One of the many, proud OTM'ers that cannot stand Josh Beckett.

by gizmosandy on Dec 1, 2010 6:16 PM EST reply actions  

Sandy I think you're going senile

I didn’t understand a word of that.

If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 1, 2010 6:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I meant this team, not time

The certified ambassador of all things good and great, here at OTM.
DO NOT OVERPAY FOR BELTRE !!!
TRADE ELLSBURY THIS WINTER !!!
One of the many, proud OTM'ers that cannot stand Josh Beckett.

by gizmosandy on Dec 1, 2010 6:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I think they could possibly do it with the right moves/lack of spending.

This might not be a great decision, though.

embrace the martian
Twitter: @BoldandBrash

by BoldandBrash on Dec 1, 2010 7:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I probably shouldn't refill my whiskey glass

I read that as “the right moves/lack of spelling”.

Errrrrr…..

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Dec 1, 2010 7:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm wondering now

If the Sox might use this year as a test year for the corner infield positions. Get a stop-gap 1B this year, transition Youk to 3B full time. Over the course of the season, see how his defense is, how it holds up for the course of the year, how they figure it will project into the future. Factor that into deciding how hard to go at Gonzalez.

This could also be used on a half year basis as well. Stop-gap guy at first, but if you need a push at the deadline, take a run at Gonzalez and consider the current 1B a sunk cost.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Dec 1, 2010 6:40 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Me, too.

Obviously, there’s been a lot of debate on this site about Youk as a viable option at 3B. Presumably, there has been some question in the front office as well.

This also works in that if Youk shits the bed at third and/or our stop-gap 1B blows, he could be transitioned to first mid-season and we could look for a replacement 3B or try Lowrie over there.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Dec 1, 2010 7:00 PM EST up reply actions  

love the thought

The certified ambassador of all things good and great, here at OTM.
DO NOT OVERPAY FOR BELTRE !!!
TRADE ELLSBURY THIS WINTER !!!
One of the many, proud OTM'ers that cannot stand Josh Beckett.

by gizmosandy on Dec 1, 2010 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Plus that "stopgap"

also gives insurance at DH in case Ortiz disappears again.

by BobZupcic on Dec 1, 2010 9:57 PM EST up reply actions  

why agonz or any other 1b??

I think the sox would be a much better team to leave Youk at 1b and find a 3b. Agonz may be a great player, but would like to see whateffect playing in the intense AL east would have. I would rather see the team explore the option of David Wright from the Mets. Stats are comparable…he’s played in NY…and he’s the marquee type player the team could promote…and he has a reasonable contract for the next few years with an option…who knows maybe the Mets will want to try and rebuild now that they have a new GM/Mgr…..maybe even try and add Beltran in a salary dump ala the Marlins with Lowell……

Bulldog1986

by bulldog1986 on Dec 1, 2010 9:36 PM EST reply actions  

I don't think Alderson is going to trade Wright.

If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 1, 2010 10:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Wright seems like one of the least likely players to be available

And after him, there are few, if any, third basemen who are the caliber of offensive player.

Why Gonzalez is because there isn’t another hitter in baseball whose swing is close to as perfect as his for Fenway.

by wolf9309 on Dec 2, 2010 10:38 AM EST up reply actions  

You're both being ridiculous

Neither Wright of Zimmerman have proven they can play in the AL East. It’s Longoria or bust.

by brogshan on Dec 2, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly

The Rays should be thanking us for taking Longoria off their hands. So what if he has one of the sweetest, most team-friendly contracts in the league? We’re the Red Sox, dammit, and when one of our blog readers wants a superstar, he gets a superstar!

by travben85 on Dec 2, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

just a sidenote but Longoria

is the only player i would trade Pedroia straight up for (not that it will ever happen)

by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 2, 2010 6:13 PM EST up reply actions  

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