Red Sox In On Jayson Werth, But You Already Knew That
by Ben Buchanan on Nov 8, 2010 2:41 PM EST
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According to Gordon Edes, the Red Sox have apparently contacted Scott Boras, expressing their interest in free agent outfielder Jayson Werth.
Not a lot of surprise here, if any at all. The Red Sox are going to be in, predictably, on just about every big-name free agent this offseason, especially in positions of need like the outfield. Despite having three potential starters there, the durability of Mike Cameron is in question, and picking up a strong outfielder would allow him and Drew to form a fairly natural platoon in right field.
Werth has been a 5 WAR player for the last three years, playing mostly right field for the Phillies while posting an OPS of .860 or better since 2007. Werth had his best offensive year in 2010, hitting .296/.388/.532, but taking into consideration his .352 BABIP and being on the wrong side of 30, the Sox have to be worried about regression in any sort of long-term deal.
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Ugh.
and picking up a strong outfielder would allow him and Drew to form a fairly natural platoon in right field.
That’s a pretty expensive @#$%ing platoon.
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Maybe so.
Still, hardly ideal.
Surely the glorious JD Drew’s stock hasn’t fallen so much on OTM that the new boss now considers him a part-time player?
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
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Righties make up most of the opposition.
But he was really bad against lefties last year. On most teams he can be a full time player, but we’re already paying a guy like Cameron, who can still kill lefties, so why not just let them both have their cake and eat it too?
Or would it be “have their cake but not poison it?”
I don’t know. But if J.D. had had Cameron’s numbers vs. lefties, he would’ve been a .950+ OPS player last year.
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by Ben Buchanan on Nov 8, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
depends on how he hits lefties to start next year
because if both Drew and Ortiz are as bad against lefties as they were this year, the lineup can have some issues.
Wouldn't having Werth alleviate some of those issues?
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and to hear the lamentations of their fans! - Conan the Bostonian
Yes, Werth traditionally hits lefties very well.
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yeah, Werth would help
Being able to get someone out of the lineup who is hitting .200 against lefties would also help.
I don’t think there’s any imaginable situation in which the year starts with a platoon between Cameron and Drew, but it certainly wouldn’t hurt to have the security.
Well, they can't realistically get any salary relief from either player
And if they do sign Crawford or Werth, I can’t see any other real scenario but a Drew/Cameron platoon.
We could call it the Camerewn.
Or we could not do that.
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I'll vote for option B
However, I’m down for Drewmeron.
I’d guess that Cameron starts with very little playing time, just 4th outfielder and it becomes a platoon if Drew sucks against lefties. Of course, we all know that Drew will be sitting a lot anyways, and probably mostly against lefties, so it would likely become that over time.
It depends if Francona wants to let them play.
He put them both behind the eight ball by not playing them at all against LHP to start the season, so when they did face it, the were worse because of lack of experience.
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well
I think that was an idea i had earlier in the season. Realistically, I haven’t seen any real evidence to support it. Really, at the end of the day, about 1/3 of Drew’s at bats were against lefties, which doesn’t seem nearly as far from the norm as I would have expected, so it’s not like he didn’t see them the whole year.
My problem with that is Francona didn't let him get ABs early on to help
him against the LHP later on. I have no problem with a platoon if one can be found. Francona needs to either commit to a platoon or commit to the player.
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Twitter: @BoldandBrash
I'd rather platoon Cameron and Drew in LF
starting Werth in RF.
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just because he'll be there in the future or what?
Because from everything I’ve seen, Drew is hands down a better defender than Werth. I guess Werth’s arm is probably stronger, but I just feel like Drew’s ability to get to the ball more than outweighs that
His arm is a lot more suited
But Fenway’s RF vs. LF is ridiculous.
If it’s not an issue, perhaps Werth in RF on the road, and Drew in RF at home. But I know that gives some people issues.
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Though Werth is no sloucher himself defensively.
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I like it
Would love to have Werth here
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As with any signing
It depends on money and years.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 8, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah.
He’s gonna be 32 next year. I don’t want Werth for anything more than 3/45.
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by Frederick0220 on Nov 9, 2010 12:51 AM EST up reply actions
I think it's pretty unlikely he'd take a 3 year deal
He’s coming off a career year and will probably be looking for that last major contract. Not to mention he has Boras as his agent.
Holliday got 7 years and Bay got 4 years, and a lot of writers are speculating that Werth will be looking somewhere in that area for a deal. I say he signs for no less than 4 years.
Well, sure, if we want to sell our souls for Posey.
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I wish
But will never happen
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by Marisa Ingemi on Nov 8, 2010 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
Also, I just thought everyone should know
That I spent a good five minutes trying to track down a picture with both Jayson Werth and Julio Lugo I could use to nefarious ends.
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Ick, do not want.
Especially if the contract is longer than two years or so. I have a feeling Reddick finally turned the corner.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Yeah
But I will take the proven veteren in Werth.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Nov 8, 2010 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
He hasn't turn the corner in Winter League.
Reddick OPS is .574 in 48 AB and batting below the Mendoza line (.188)
/SSS
I could see this
Theo signed Beltre with Lowell on the team. They wanted to sign Texiera with a healthy Lowell on the team(moving Youk to third), so they will bring in players even if there is some overlap for a year.
theo was trying to pawn off lowell for maxine rameirz (rangers)
but interesting point about tex/youk/lowell.
what was theo gonna do?
probably just dump Lowell
Hey, a sunk cost is a sunk cost.
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But Mikey ends up making it all the way to his
on field retirement party and now he’s drinking margaritas poolside in Miami till he comes back to coach some day.
Thanks for the pre injury years Mike. ’07 was a lot of fun…
Lowell healthy
he was hurt at the end of the 2008 season, and would never be the same. He was not healthy when Tex was a FA, and never would be.
simul justus et peccator
If we do land Werth,
I have no problem with shopping Drew this off season for prospects, since he’s in the final year of his contract. He’s said that he may retire after this season and if that’s true and the FO eats a little salary, we may get the Braves interested since they released Melky Cabrera and Rick Ankiel.
The Braves liked Drew enough to trade for him back in the day. Playing as a proud Brave, Drew put up a fWAR of 8.5 in ’04 with a slash line of .301/.436/.569 with 31 HR before he scored big as a free agent going to the Dodgers in ’05.
Since he lives in the Atlanta area, the Braves may be the one team to find a way to get a few more years out of Drew before he retires because he would be playing so many games back close to his home.
Link to Braves ’11 payroll obligations
Link to Braves Depth Chart before releasing Melky and Ankiel.
My money is on that JD has a big '11
coming into his walk year. I think trading him would be selling low. Trade Cameron (if anyone), play Kalish, Nava or Reddick as the 4th outfielder. Let JD walk after ’11, replacing with a free agent or Kalish.
JD has said that after 2011
he is going to either sign a short contract with the Sox or retire. Seems to have no real interest in playing for a contract or doing the free agency thing again, so if the contract year thing is a motivator for some people, I wouldn’t expect him to be one of them.
Exactly.
And if Drew stays the year and then retires there will be no draft picks or prospects coming our way at all. Does anyone have another team besides the Braves that would be a fit for one JD Drew?
Trying to find a trading partner for Cameron ($7.25 mil in ’11) coming off an injury and turning 38 this January will be more difficult than matching Drew ($14mil, turns 35 in 10 days) with a team like the Braves. He can play anywhere in the outfield and had the best year of his career when he played for the Braves in ’04.
Trading Ellsbury is an option but he’s young and just entering his 1st year of arbitration. He’s expected to get one year at +/- $3 mil.
It just seems that if the FO gets Werth or Crawford, one of Drew ($14mil), Cameron ($7.25mil), or Ellsbury ($3mil+/-) may need to go
trading Ellsbury would also get rid of the whole point of getting a FA outfielder now
which is, we would still have two outfield holes to fill after next season
If the Sox dump Drew
What is OTM gonna do with all of it’s JD Drew = Jesus t-shirts?
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
UNNECESSARY CONTRACTION
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
Werth seems to be the perfect fit.
The certified ambassador of all things good and great, here at OTM.
DO NOT OVERPAY FOR BELTRE !!!
TRADE ELLSBURY THIS WINTER !!!
One of the many, proud OTM'ers that cannot stand Josh Beckett.
yeah he really does seem like exactly what the team needs for the future.
Much more so than Crawford
I don't know how much concern there was, but
I don’t think Werth will have a problem hitting in Fenway. I heard that he is an all fields hitter instead of a pull hitter better suited for Fenway. I thought Beltre was supposed to have this problem, but then proceeded to hit knee-shots.
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No please no
He is on the other side of 30 and has lost production the last 2 years. I would rather roll the dice with kalish and go for gonzo esp if they put the swimming pools in the old bullpens and move the new pens in 10 or 20 feet. It won’t have to be such a huge poke to get one out to rf. Did I just say swimming pools in the bullpen? What the …….!
Live free or die watching sports
His production has held steady overall, and gained offensively the last two years.
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It seems that theo's obp theory would not mix with JW. Does'nt it seem like he strikes out a ton?
Live free or die watching sports
His OBP is plenty high regardless.
He walks enough that the strikeouts don’t kill him.
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by Ben Buchanan on Nov 8, 2010 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
Gonzo will be in play next winter
The certified ambassador of all things good and great, here at OTM.
DO NOT OVERPAY FOR BELTRE !!!
TRADE ELLSBURY THIS WINTER !!!
One of the many, proud OTM'ers that cannot stand Josh Beckett.
but they're gonna be shopping him for a ton
I imagine he’ll get traded somewhere before the year is up, but I also imagine that he’ll hit free agency after this year, there’s really no incentive for him to sign an extension with someone who he was just traded to.
That depends on the extension offered
What teams are really there for to bid next year? Sox, Angels and Mets?
can't really say since I don't know what any teams payrolls will be like after next season
but definitely more than that for a player of this caliber. White Sox, Nationals, Cubs, are a few more that would probably be in on him. Well over half the teams would have a need for him. The fact is that he can only drive his price up in free agency, unless he has an unexpected terrible injury that derails the end of his 2011 season, and you wouldn’t bet on that if you were him.
Not sure about the White Sox, Nationals and Cubs
I think all three of those teams are looking to sign a 1B this winter. Granted, any one of them could sign a veteran on a one year contract (Konerko, LaRoche, Berkman, Pena, etc), and then be back in the market next year when AGonz is out there.
I have a feeling that the possibility of getting Gonzalez in 2011 might keep a few teams from going after Dunn. Especially if he insists on playing 1B.
Also worth noting that the Cubs and White Sox have looked into trading for Gonzalez in the past. I wouldn’t be shocked if one of them made a strong push for him this offseason.
Surprise!
Oh wait…not really. I’d love this deal, but the only reason I lean toward Crawford over Werth is simple: age.
Crawford is on the right side of 30 and Werth is on the wrong side.
Dept of Redundancy Dept
He doesn’t add anything Ellsbury doesn’t bring, but he can’t/won’t play CF or hit lead off.
You only need him if you dump Ellsbury, which doesn’t seem likely, or wise.
simul justus et peccator
Where?
Has it been said he won’t play CF? If so where?
For that matter, has Werth said he’ll play any other position?
It's been said he's less comfortable.
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by Ben Buchanan on Nov 8, 2010 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure Crawford was fine playing CF
It’s just that BJ Upton is better, so they shifted him over.
If I were Crawford...
I might want to get out of the AL East. Especially if the Sox were offering about the same amount as other teams (like the Angels).
And probably wash, wax, and detail your car too.
And even cure the common cold! It’s Boras we’re talking about. ;-)
Raj Ghetia
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His farts smell like lilacs!
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
On the other hand, Crawford's going to probably take more years
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by Ben Buchanan on Nov 8, 2010 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
x
Anyone see what I did there? Seriously though, what will you do with Drew if you sign Werth? You probably won’t get good value in a trade, so you’ll just have a really expensive bench player.
Montero will be our savior in 2011.
We'd go with Werth/Ells/Drew because they are the best players.
Cam would be an expensive 4th OF IIRC his contract correctly.
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by BoldandBrash on Nov 8, 2010 8:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Cave troll
Plus range, plus power. Very poor “baseball instincts,” tends to depress ticket sales with unfortunate tendency to eat fans. Possible steroid guy.
Wait 'til next/this year?
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by nuthinboutnuthin on Nov 8, 2010 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
Possible?
I’m throwing in HGH too.
Pardon my sig if it’s messed up.
Raj Ghetia
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster
Would prefer Werth over Crawford for several reasons:
a)RH power verses someone who will have his (lesser) power mitigated by Fenway (assuming they don’t move the fences in RF in).
b)Crawford has bad LH splits-we have too many of those-especially if we lose VMart.
c)Crawford’s biggest asset (his glove) is less needed in 81 games at home.
d)We have Ells-who is clearly not as good as Crawford, but should still be on the upswing of his career and thus could be (while he stays on the team) a 70-80% approximation of Crawford for cheaper.
e)Werth plays a good RF-so when Drew is gone that is where he could play.
That said-I am not in love with signing Werth-some injury issues, age, Boras=not my favorite risk. However the BABIP issue is overstated. Werth is one of those high BABIP guys-career .333, and as high as .389 in a half season in 07. .352 is high, but not as high as you might otherwise guess.
Yeah, the BABIP is just me saying "don't expect him to always be 2010 Werth"
He’s plenty good offensively, and Crawford’s splits make me really scared when you realize how he wants to bat in the middle of the lineup…
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by Ben Buchanan on Nov 8, 2010 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
+1
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 9, 2010 9:11 AM EST up reply actions
+1
i basically wrote the same thing i another topic just minutes ago
by German Red Sox Fan on Nov 10, 2010 12:54 AM EST up reply actions
If we do get Werth, then.....
2010
RF – Drew
CF – Ellsbury
LF – Werth
When Drew goes down Kalish takes over in LF and Werth moves over to right.
Then in 2011, we’ll have Werth in RF/LF, Kalish in CF/LF, and we can trade Ellsbury in a package hopefully for Rasmus or someone else who knows how to get on base and hit a ball out of the infield.
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a lot of ifs and buts there, but it would be nice
It is worth mentioning that Ellsbury’s career OBP is significantly higher than Colby’s. And that Colby would be worth quite a bit more anyways.
c'mon yo
Rasmus has played 2 years in the Majors and is nowhere near peak production.
Wait ’till he settles in and goes .280/.380/.530 year-in-and-year-out.
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by Frederick0220 on Nov 9, 2010 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
Pass on Werth and Crawford
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
Agreed
Sometimes we forget what we have in the outfield with health. Going left to right we have Cameron, an elite OF defender who, when healthy isn’t too far off of Crawford offensively without the SB threat. Ellsbury, Crawfodrd-lite, potentially a very good defender if he works on it and a guy who is still developing offensively with potential as a leadoff guy if he takes a couple more walks. Drew, strong defense, strong bat, nuff said. Now Cameron and Drew will probably be gone after next year but we’ve got a solid group of prospects and the free agent class, while not having Crawford or Werth, is still pretty strong. I just don’t think it’s worth signing either.
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I fall in here
Agree that our 3 projected starters (Drew/Cameron/Ells) are a really strong group, and we have a solid crop of OF prospects if needed.
I would rather resign Beltre and VMart, instead of some combination that involves Crawford or Werth.
Personally
I would rather sign Werth (Werth, Ells, Drew) and make Cameron the 4th outfielder. Then try and sign VMart. I would love to see Beltre comeback, but it would have to be 2 years at 10mill each. I hope they don’t over paid for Beltre.
Well, yeah, that'd be nice
But I think most of us accept that we probably won’t get 3 of the top FA out there this winter. Maybe it’s possible, but it seems like asking a lot of Theo to sign Beltre, VMart AND Werth/Crawford. But if I had to choose 2 out of the 4, I would choose the two that we already had.
Exactly
I’d take VMart and Beltre back any day as a first option.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Can't say I see the FA class.
If Bautista repeats his year, he’ll be a stand-out, but other than him, uh…
…
David DeJesus?
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I agree with you there, Ben.
I don’t necessarily think that Drew’s replacement will come in as a FA. Instead, I’m hoping that when he (and Cameron) leave, at least one, if not 2 of our OF prospects are ready to start.
Now maybe that’s a pipe dream, and it’s leaving too much to chance. Your article a little while back seemed to suggest that very thing, saying that we should sign a FA outfielder now because we’ll need him in 2012. And I can’t say I disagree with that, but I just would rather have Beltre and Victor back. The holes at C and 3B seem much more glaring to me, especially because I would rather see Lowrie at SS.
it would be nice to hope
and there’s probably a decent shot that one will, but counting on two to come in at once and be ready is a bit of a stretch.
Billy Beane and the A's Traded for him he would have been an intruiging option
Didn’t the Sox ask for him this summer, but the injury made them shy away?
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
I believe you're right.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
I believe that exactly as they were asking about him
he got hurt. That seemed to be the timeline.
But he will still be a free agent next year (when we actually need to fill the spot), which is what Ben was saying
I like DeJesus
I’d be more than okay with signing him next year.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
eh, he's a fine player
but a few notches below Werth or Crawford. I loved the idea of getting him at the deadline because we needed someone so badly, but at this point next year, he’ll be a 32 year old injury prone corner outfielder without real power or speed. Which isn’t to say he’s a bad player, just when he’s the top available free agent outfielder, it’s not a good thing.
It was just about time that The SOX pulled up their "socks". The team’s starters have been wanting I just hope their big Gamble with Jayson Werth will work out for them! I hope the worries about regression will not come to be!
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by thorstenmikkelsen on Nov 10, 2010 7:01 AM EST reply actions
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