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Time to Play GM: Zack Greinke Anybody?

ANAHEIM CA - AUGUST 11:  Zack Greinke #23 of the Kansas City Royals pitches against the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim in the seventh inning at Angel Stadium on August 11 2010 in Anaheim California. The Angels defeated the Royals 2-1 in ten innings.  (Photo by Jeff Gross/Getty Images)

Every once in a while, we all get to gather 'round and play a little game I like to call "General Manager RPG."  Right now, I'm the "Game Master" or "GM" (see what I did there?) and I have this little idea brewing my head.  Yet, it looks as if I am certainly not the only one.

Make a trade for the Kansas City Royals' SP Zack Greinke.  Yes, I mean the 2009 AL Cy Young Award Winner (let's not forget he also won the Sporting News' AL Pitcher of the Year and MLBPA Players Choice AL Pitcher of the Year;  a hat-trick of sorts).

What's that you say?  You didn't put up your "Anti-Stupidity Shield" up?  Well time for you to roll for damage and see what happens, shall we?

Star-divide

 

On the surface, this may certainly seem like a boneheaded idea.  Why?  The Red Sox certainly have a fleshed out rotation and adding another pitcher will simply increase the congestion in the rotation.  Also, what would the team have to give up to secure Greinke's services?  Certainly several prospects that's for sure, and that is certainly not a palatable idea by any means.

However, let's take a look at the fine print shall we?


W-L G GS CG SHO SV BS IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP
2010 - Zack Greinke 10-14 33 33 3 0 0 0 220.0 219 114 102 18 55 181 4.17 1.25


Now in no way do those stats do Greinke justice.  For an in-depth analysis of his stats, I turn to my friends at Baseball-Reference.com.  Make what you want of those statistics as they're always in the eye of the beholder.

He's had one full season that was below average and there was one season he was completely out for the year.  Taking those out of consideration, Greinke has been pretty darn good (and that's an understatement if there ever was one) so far and I certainly do not expect him to get worse anytime soon.

So we know he's good, but how do Theo & Co. expect to get him?  There might just be a few prospects on Kansas City's radar that the team has down on the farm and are simply salivating to get their hands on.  Or maybe there aren't.  We simply don't know what; however, we can certainly surmise that KC would want players that won't cost much.  Why?  The Royals are a very budget conscious organization and they'll trim their payroll, even if it means trading away the face of the franchise.  It's been speculated that the 2011 payroll will be lower than last year, and to do that, the team will certainly have to trim payroll.  Greinke's contract would certainly fall onto the proverbial chopping block when it comes to payroll trimming and a trade is the only way to have that happen right away.  One trade of note (one I was a bit shocked by): Bob Neumeier, while guest hosting on Dennis and Callahan on WEEI, brought up the possibility of Casey Kelly and Jose Iglesias for Zack Greinke.  Personally, that's too much, but certainly an intriguing possibility.

Of course we cannot forget that the Red Sox would end up with a "traffic jam" of sorts in the starting rotation.  The only way I'd see any alleviation to that would be to trade a pitcher one can easily part with.  Considering contractual obligations and similar payroll considerations, it would certainly look like Daisuke Matsuzaka would be the odd man out; however, nothing would be as easy as it would seem in that aspect.  There are no-trade clauses to consider and the fact that there may not be many teams willing to take on the player, let alone the contract.

However, here are a few things that will certainly "pour the chamber pot into the stew:" Greinke has a no trade clause to about 15 or 20 teams, so that certainly can mess things up a bit.  Now the Red Sox may not be on that list, but we clearly wouldn't know that unless that information was leaked.

Also, there's the issues in regards to Greinke's mental health.  As it has been documented, he was on the 60-day DL (and subsequently out for the rest of the year) for social anxiety disorder and depression.  Neither psychological condition is something to take lightly and especially considering that baseball is a mental game as much as a physical game, it's something to consider for sure.  Can Greinke handle the big lights in Boston and the feverish nature of fans that follow the team?  It's something to be considered.

So playing GM, would I trade for Greinke?  It's all dependent upon the prospects in question and how I could theoretically clear the jam in the rotation his acquisition would create.  In the end, it might be a problem not worth having...but who knows?  It could all work out in some way in the end.

(Kudos to Will McDonald at Royals Review for a short & sweet synopsis about the situation)

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I say no

The rotation is locked up for at least two years, most for four years. Any pieces you could use to get Greinke could be used instead for an impact bat (Upton, Gonzalez, etc.).

by mg050369 on Nov 18, 2010 7:07 AM EST reply actions  

Severely Doubt

That the rumored Upton deal will ever materialize. Way too much would have to be given up.

It would theoretically be cheaper to get Greene than Upon.

"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire

The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site

by Raj Ghetia on Nov 18, 2010 8:48 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Theo's working on a three team deal now, he's got a lot of time to work it out.

Upton to Boston, Reynolds to Oakland, Ellsbury/Bard/Oakland prospect(s) to Pheonix? I’ll admit, I don’t know Oakland’s farm system very well.

If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Nov 18, 2010 10:32 AM EST up reply actions  

I really hope this is not true...

Source? Why would Oakland want Reynolds when they just claimed Encarnicion off waivers from Toronto….

"Hating the (New York) Yankees is as American as pizza pie, unwed mothers, and cheating on your income tax"

I'm back, that's all, formerly known as Sox-Inda-South!

by GameSox on Nov 18, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

MLBTR is the source.

I’m speculating on Oakland being the third team, I don’t know for sure.

If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Nov 18, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Still Don't See It Happening

Unless I see a lot more smoke and feel like there’s fire, I call shenanigans.

No way I see Bard gone. Why? Well for starters, we don’t know what there is down at the farm for sure in regards to closers. Second, Papelbon’s time here in Boston is seemingly not for long, so Bard would certainly be stepping in if Papelbon goes. So unless Pap takes a slight discount in pay and/or years in a possible contract, I seriously do not see him sticking around and I expect him to be leaving Boston.

Ellsbury obviously is expendable if we get Upton, but then would we still go out and get Werth or Crawford as previously reported? I would think getting Upton would be solidify the OF with some pop and then use the money not used on Werth and Crawford on say keeping Bel-Tray and/or V-Mart.

"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire

The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site

by Raj Ghetia on Nov 18, 2010 9:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

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by Marisa Ingemi on Nov 18, 2010 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah... I just think our rotation should be damn good and we have depth there.

There are a number of other areas that need to be addressed. I don’t think we should waste our time or energy on rotation upgrades… very close to a point of diminishing returns compared to upgrades to the lineup & pen.

by alskor on Nov 18, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Too many "if's"

If we can trade Dice-K, if we can give them prospects they want, if we don’t need middle relievers or bats more, etc.

I think it’s a pipe dream at this point.

Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell

by lone1c on Nov 18, 2010 7:57 AM EST reply actions  

My Thoughts At First

And there still a ton of “ifs” in regards to this possibility. Could it be done? Possibly. But another team would certainly have to be involved I think.

I wonder which team would or could get involved…

"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire

The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site

by Raj Ghetia on Nov 18, 2010 8:52 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

We only play General Manager RPG

Because nobody likes Bench Coach Text Adventure.

You guys don’t know what you’re missing.

Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG

by Ben Buchanan on Nov 18, 2010 9:35 AM EST reply actions  

“It is dark. You are in danger of being eaten by DeMarlo Hale.”

by Sologub on Nov 18, 2010 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

You have been sent home by Tim Bogar.

You are thrown OUT three feet away from the plate.

GAME OVER.

Better luck next time.

Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell

by lone1c on Nov 18, 2010 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes please.

I’d do anything to replace John Lackey with Zack Greinke in our rotation.

Hey Royals, you get Papelbon and Iglesias, but you also have to eat up Lackey’s contract for us. Thanks.

by Justin_Bobo on Nov 18, 2010 11:23 AM EST reply actions  

And if they go for that

I have some ocean front property in Manhattan, KS to sell them. . . .

Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell

by lone1c on Nov 18, 2010 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

with global warming

that property may be worth a lot next year

by Mick Lowe on Nov 18, 2010 12:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I like Greinke as a pitcher

But I’m not sure Boston is a good fit for him. He has suffered from depression and his social anxiety disorder might not play well in New England, where baseball is a religion.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Nov 18, 2010 11:39 AM EST reply actions  

depression and his social anxiety disorder - sadd - my coin

johnny black works.

seriously, they have all kinds of frontal lobe type pills for this stuff.

in my professional newspaper delivery boy opinion, it’s treatable

in fact, my tip money says that he has been treated and should be ok, as long as he keeps taking his meds and stays away from the booze.

it took a little while for the meds to work.

also, i doubt the size of the crowd, or pressure of the fans, will have any bearing on his condition.

by Mick Lowe on Nov 18, 2010 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Nov 18, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

A lot of those problems will be fixed

By having guys named Youk and Pedey instead of Anderson, Hall, Patterson, and Navarro patrolling the infield, not to mention Cameron or Crawford versus Hall and friends in LF.

Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell

by lone1c on Nov 18, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Yup, & healthy versions of other players...

One more reason not to waste bullets on starting pitchers.

by alskor on Nov 18, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

It’s clear that Greinke would represent an upgrade to our rotation (assuming it’s not something like Buchholz going back), but to use pieces on an area that is already good when there are other more obvious holes on this team seems….wasteful.

by South Coast Ghost on Nov 18, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

He would always be great to have

 but right now, starting pitching is about the least great need to shove our spare resources into.

by wolf9309 on Nov 18, 2010 3:48 PM EST reply actions  

Grienke has a screw loose, so no thank you.

The certified ambassador of all things good and great, here at OTM.
DO NOT OVERPAY FOR BELTRE !!!
TRADE ELLSBURY THIS WINTER !!!
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by gizmosandy on Nov 18, 2010 5:24 PM EST reply actions  

+1

Yeah, I’ll pass on a guy like him. He might be great with little pressure in KC but when he hits the east coast it’s something totally different and if he isn’t right in the head, it could be ugly.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Nov 18, 2010 6:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Not So Much Anymore

It was covered previously but he’s had those issues worked on/taken care of. For his case, medication certainly has helped along with I’m sure therapy.

"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire

The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site

by Raj Ghetia on Nov 18, 2010 7:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I see it going like Vasquez

But with more money and prospects invested. I’d rather just use Dice-K at the 5 spot than take the risk.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Nov 18, 2010 7:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe in KC it helped

But this would be like taking someone who just got over claustrophobia in a subway and then throwing them in a coffin alive and closing the lid.

If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Nov 18, 2010 8:07 PM EST up reply actions  

No it wouldn't

He’s been managing with it for years now. I’m not saying he’d definitely be fine playing in Boston, but he is not walking around ready to implode. He has a stressful job as is, hell he is THE face of the KC Royals. It seems to me he can manage. Plus I’ve read that we’re on his veto list, so if he thinks he can’t handle it, he’s not coming.

by brogshan on Nov 19, 2010 8:59 AM EST up reply actions  

He definitely wouldn't have to be The Man

In a rotation with Lester, Buchholz, Lackey, and Beckett. That makes a big difference. The expectations would be high because (a) he’s in Boston, and (b) he’s recognized as being a great pitcher, but there’s absolutely no need for him to be the rotation ace the way he is in KC.

Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell

by lone1c on Nov 19, 2010 9:06 AM EST up reply actions  

That's what I heard as well.

No interest in playing in big, east coast cities.

Also, this speculation about what would bother him is not a productive area of discussion. We have no effing clue what will bother him.

by alskor on Nov 19, 2010 11:37 AM EST up reply actions  

there would not be a problem with his head

his loose screw has been tightened.

he’ll be ok

sox not being on his list of places he’d take a trade to, is a negotiating ploy for waving that clause, for moola.

everyone has the sox listed as a place they don’t want to be traded to.

yet, they come.

by Mick Lowe on Nov 19, 2010 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

well no, he has a bunch of teams on his no trade list

he said specifically that he would not accept a trade to the big market east coast teams. He didn’t exclude big market west coast teams. Don’t know where he’s from or anything, but may be he’s hoping to get traded somewhere in particular.

by wolf9309 on Nov 19, 2010 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Source?

Don’t remember reading that anywhere. Not saying you’re full of it, LOL.

Just curious to know where you read this. :-)

"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire

The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site

by Raj Ghetia on Nov 21, 2010 1:10 AM EST up reply actions  

not actually a quote from him but
Clubs that checked in on Greinke have also come away with the impression he wouldn’t approve a deal to ANY major-market East Coast team (Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, Mets). But an official of one team says Greinke “would at least think about the L.A. clubs” if the Dodgers or Angels were to wade into this mix.

from Jayson Stark on ESPN.com

by wolf9309 on Nov 21, 2010 3:44 AM EST up reply actions  

I hear he got posted

The certified ambassador of all things good and great, here at OTM.
DO NOT OVERPAY FOR BELTRE !!!
TRADE ELLSBURY THIS WINTER !!!
One of the many, proud OTM'ers that cannot stand Josh Beckett.

by gizmosandy on Nov 18, 2010 8:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Greinke hasn't been on the 15 or 60 day DL since the depression issue in April of 2006.

The only time he missed was in spring training for surgery to have two teeth removed.

He takes the ball every five days and gives his team a chance to win. He’s five years beyond the his psychosocial challenge and was an All Star in 2009 plus he won a Cy Young Award with a 9.4 fWAR that same year. 9.4 WAR… my god. I’d give my left nut plus Doubront, Reddick, Lars Anderson, Iglesias, and Tazawa to have Greinke wear our laundry for the next two years.

by went9 on Nov 18, 2010 8:15 PM EST up reply actions  

That's a bit much.

I wouldn’t give up my left nut. The prospects maybe.

But certainly not my left nut. Just sayin’

"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire

The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site

by Raj Ghetia on Nov 18, 2010 8:23 PM EST up reply actions  

i'd give up went9's left nut

you want us to get you someone to chop it off or are you going to handle it ?

by Mick Lowe on Nov 18, 2010 10:50 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Don't worry about me. I've got big ones.

Hell, Beltre played half a year in Seattle with a fractured left one. If it helps us get Greinke, count me in. He’s a 27 yr old righthanded Cliff Lee. Get him and extend him.

by went9 on Nov 18, 2010 11:42 PM EST up reply actions  

i could have done with out the beltre reminder

when you say – “Get him and extend him” – are you referring to ‘him’ as being greink or ‘him’ as being, well, you know, the bat and ball area?

no, please don’t answer this

by Mick Lowe on Nov 19, 2010 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

This is going to end badly...

"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire

The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site

by Raj Ghetia on Nov 21, 2010 1:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Heh.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Nov 19, 2010 12:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Psychological Issues

At the expense of making a quote ladder, I’ll address them separately.

I’ve spent a good portion of this past decade doing psychological work, from my undergraduate work, partial post graduate, to field work also. So I have at least some idea what the heck I’m talking about when I say this:

Greinke would be fine here. The various comparisons of him having a meltdown here in Boston are a bit over the top. There’s always the risk of him not being able to handle it here, but that’s a risk every player that comes here has (see: Edgar Renteria). Would Greinke be more susceptible? Perhaps, but he’s also been able to conquer it and it not something many people can say they have done.

He was given the time to “conquer his demons;” a full year to face these issues is certainly a lot. The average person simply has to cope with them and work around life and make concessions for things that people still don’t consider illnesses. Greinke, like many professional athletes, had and has the luxury of simply taking that time off to help better himself.

You and I, usually don’t and life moves on without us when it comes to mental health.

"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire

The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site

by Raj Ghetia on Nov 18, 2010 8:35 PM EST reply actions  

Seeing as though I'm on PSA like every day I see more than my fair share of silly trade proposals.

But Iglesias and Kelly being too much to give up for a 26 year old Cy Young award winner has got to be up near the top. I’m all about being high on your own guys but KC is going to be looking for 3 or 4 can’t miss guys. Kelly and Iglesias certainly have high ceilings, but they’re both worlds away from even approaching those ceilings. If those two were to be included in a trade for ZG I’m thinking you’d probably have to say your goodbyes to Buchholz and/or Bard too.

Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.

by CasanovaWong on Nov 18, 2010 10:46 PM EST reply actions  

Maybe if we throw in Nava???

(joking)

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Nov 19, 2010 12:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Which is why this is a stupid deal right now

There’s no place for him in the rotation unless the Sox can deal Matzusaka, and the cost in terms of prospects are way too high. It makes no sense to use Greinke to replace Buchholz, and there’s no way I’d deal even Hal Steinbrenner’s left nut if it meant having to give up Bard.

Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell

by lone1c on Nov 19, 2010 6:01 AM EST up reply actions  

If Bard/Buchholz Are Requested

Then the trade never happens. Theo & Co. haven’t necessarily said it per se, but those two are untouchable at this point.

"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire

The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site

by Raj Ghetia on Nov 21, 2010 1:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Theo working on the three way deal?

Sweet!!!……I’d love to land Justin Upton…….for the Bo sox….we need to nab,CF-Colby Rasmus from the Cardinals too….especially since he’s still in LaRussa;s doghouse…

by KtownGreek on Nov 18, 2010 10:54 PM EST reply actions  

If they get Upton they won't get Rasmus

If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Nov 18, 2010 11:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd empty the farm for those two.

Kelly, Bard, Ellsbury, etc., for Upton.

Kalish/Reddick, Lowrie/DiceK, Doubront, etc. for Rasmus. (Cards need a SS, and I could see DiceK thriving with a change of pace…)

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Nov 19, 2010 12:32 AM EST up reply actions  

The shame about Rasmus is he was drafted with our pick

The Sox lost that pick as compensation for singing the great Edgar Renteria.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Nov 19, 2010 12:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Did we have plans to draft him though?

We could have just as easily missed with that pick anyway.

by travben85 on Nov 19, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Good question

The Sox picked Ellsbury and Craig Hansen ahead of the #28 pick (Rasmus). They picked Lowrie and Buchholz with later sandwich picks. Even without Rasmus, it was a good draft.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Nov 19, 2010 4:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Ahhhh, Hansen.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Nov 19, 2010 7:49 PM EST up reply actions  

That's Hanson.

And they’re freaking a lot older now to boot.

"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire

The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site

by Raj Ghetia on Nov 21, 2010 1:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Rasmus and the Draft

I recall Rasmus being linked to the Sox as a potential first round selection, however, who knows how far up on his draft board he was. He drew comparisons to a former O’s and Astros centerfielder (whose name I can’t recall). It’s possible that if Hansen didn’t fall to #26, they could have selected there instead. I was excited at the time that Hansen was selected but 5 years has turned me around on that. It would have been great to have Rasmus, however, any draft that nets you Ellsbury, Buchholz and Lowrie isn’t too shabby.

by mg050369 on Nov 19, 2010 5:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, you can NEVER have enough starting pitching remember when we let Arroyo go?

Turns out we needed him that year…and, a young front line starter with wicked stuff at a good price you have to at least check – I imagine he was Theo’s fav on the wishlist after King Felix…couldn’t get the King but I would not be surprised if he tries this – even if the rotation is ‘all locked up’….

I can hear it now “Beckett on DL, Lackey having a good year, DiceK in rehab while our three horses (Lester, Buch and Greinke) keep mowing them down…” stay tuned Sox fans it is not even the Allstar Break yet"

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Nov 19, 2010 7:10 AM EST reply actions  

You can have too much pitching

when 2 are making nearly $20M each, another is at around $10M and the remaining two are Cy Young candidates. It doesn’t make any sense to trade valuable chips for another pitcher without dealing an incumbent (Matsuzaka or Buchholz).

Talented depth is expensive and somewhat wasteful. I’d rather have depth with Wake, Doubront, Bowden and Kelly as their 6th through 9th (using their prospects for a bat) than using Matsuzka as a $10M 6th man and a weakened farm system.

by mg050369 on Nov 19, 2010 8:39 AM EST up reply actions  

+1

You can’t have too much pitching, but you can have too expensive starting pitching.

Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell

by lone1c on Nov 19, 2010 9:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Why is everyone still on the "trade Buchholz" bandwagon?

He’s finally living up to his potential and you want to give him away? He’s not much, if any, of a downgrade from Greinke, and he’s signed cheaply for a longer amount of time.

If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Nov 19, 2010 7:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I think almost noone wants to trade Buchholz especially not for Greinke

even 1 for 1 i’d have to think very long. 2 years of Greinke vs 4 years of Buchholz and Buch has proven he can pitch in Boston. Although his peripherals are worse than Greinkes i still dont do that trade.

by German Red Sox Fan on Nov 19, 2010 11:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't touch that trade with a ten foot battle lance.

No way is Greinke going to be more cost effective than Buchholz for the next four years. And even though cost isn’t really my problem, I don’t think he’d represent enough of an upgrade to lose the 2 years.

by Maeamian on Nov 20, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

$20m each is rounding up a bit.

Beckett: 4yrs/$68m ($17/yr) this includes his signing bonus.
Lackey: 5yrs/$82.5m ($16.95m) this includes signing bonus.
It’s a lot of $$ but it’s not $20M/each.

And Buchholz is cost controlled for next year at league minimum plus 3 arbitration yrs. This coming year is the time you buy out his arb yrs plus a year or two of free agency, not trade him.

Okay, Matsuzaka is a FA after ‘12 and at $10m/yr for 2 yrs, he’s ripe for a trade. Maybe the FO works on a three way deal to help find a partner ( Seattle, LAD). If this can happen, there is room for Greinke but I’m not going to hold my breath. But I do like Greinke a lot and if he found his way to the Sox, it would make me very happy.

by went9 on Nov 19, 2010 11:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I think you have made all my points

I said nearly $20M/year each. I was a bit lazy not quoting the more accurate $17M each. Whether it be $17M or nearly $20M, I think we can all agree that they have a significant finanical investment in each. Matsuzaka is owed $10M/year while Lester and Buc may consider Cy Young consideration in their careers.

My understanding of Dave D’s post was that he was a fan of getting Greinke while keeping the current rotation for depth. I don’t think that makes sense unless you Matsuzaka (what is his value) or Buchholz (which makes no sense unless he’s part of a real sweet deal). I’ll still pass on Greinke, not because I deny his talent and value, but would prefer to use they money and prospects it would take to acquire him elsewhere.

by mg050369 on Nov 20, 2010 6:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Yup - except see post below for dangling DiceK in a market where decent pitchers are few and far between

I would have no problem going into Spring with the whole thing intact to make sure everyone is healthy; however, with the thin FA market on pitching DiceK could be enticing to many clubs – just a thought but still do not think it will happen…

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Nov 22, 2010 5:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Why would the Sox deal Buchholz? I get dealing DiceK but not Buch

I think DiceK is affordable and would make an interesting dangle to a NL team in particular. Grienke would be a major upgrade – do I think it happens? No. I think the Yankee guy up a few posts hit it on the head – the cost will be very high. Do you check on it and see if you can get a deal cuz KC is dumping salary? Yes.

And, I think your concerns about weakening the Farm are always valid – however, it must be weighed in the balance of strengthening the club with young and better players. Grienke is an intruiging acquisition if a good deal can be had and he certainly meets the young and better screening criteria…

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Nov 20, 2010 12:42 AM EST up reply actions  

I'll Say It Again

Buchholz ain’t goin’ nowhere.

’Nuff said.

"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire

The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site

by Raj Ghetia on Nov 21, 2010 1:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Salary Dump

A few of y’all brought this up, but KC views Greinke’s contract as no longer manageable for them and so he’ll be a salary dump (or at least, his contract will be). So KC will trade him especially if their payroll/budget is going down.

Sure they could simply lose him in FA but they certainly want to get cheap players back in return.

"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire

The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site

by Raj Ghetia on Nov 21, 2010 1:43 AM EST reply actions  

yeah but a salary dump with high demand

usually salary dump implies you’re getting someone cheap because they’re overpaid- in this case he’s probably actually underpaid and will have massive amounts of demand, just the Royals don’t want to pay it while they aren’t competing

So just kind of a different connotation than salary dump usually means.

by wolf9309 on Nov 21, 2010 3:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Greinke has said that he doesn’t want to play for the Yankees or Red Sox. He has a no trade clause that both teams are on. It took us weeks to convince everyone on pinstripe alley that he’s not coming to New York, I’ll do you all a favor: he’s not going to Boston either.

Montero will be our savior in 2011.

by Wraithpk on Nov 21, 2010 1:40 PM EST reply actions  

I will do you a favor - he might -I posted this on another thread but looks like the friendly city of New York is a no-go but not Boston

Also,
Greinke has a connection to Boston:
http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2010/11/11/report-red-sox-express-interest-in-zack-greinke/

While Greinke, who suffers from a social anxiety disorder, has said in the past that he expected that he might have trouble playing in New York, he also suggested he thought he could play in virtually any other environment. In Boston, he has a close relationship with Sox Assistant to the GM Allard Baird, a man whom Greinke suggests was critical in getting his life and career back on track.

And, I have to imagine that the Mrs. Lee experience just further reinforced his perception of New York. I know most New Yorkers are great Americans and a class act; but, in a city that size you are bound to have a few ass-clowns who cannot behave themselves and damage the rest of the fanbase…you stay classy New York ;)

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Nov 22, 2010 6:00 AM EST reply actions  

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