John Farrell To Manage Blue Jays?
The Red Sox might be out one pitching coach, as Peter Gammons has heard from three GMs that Farrell will be the new manager of the Toronto Blue Jays.
Farrell has been with the Sox since 2007, earning the trust of management in his tenure. In recent years, however, there have been growing concerns amongst the fanbase as the pitching staff's ranking has dropped from second, to fourth, to seventh, to ninth in the American League as the years have gone by. This in spite of additions such as Jon Lester, Clay Buchholz, and John Lackey to the staff.
Farrell won out over a group of other candidates including Boston bench coach DeMarlo Hale.
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If it goes through
does the FO shop around the league for a replacement or promote pitching coach, Rich Sauveur from Pawtucket?
St Louis just signed La Russa to manage for a year plus an option year
but they have not extended Dave Duncan yet.
Back up the truck…….beep,beep,beep
Wait
Is Duncan currently under contract?
"Every night I go to bed thinking about when I’m going to play again. I dream about playing at Fenway."-Ryan Westmoreland
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Oct 21, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I would piss myself
If we got Duncan. That man’s a bloody genius…the Einstein of pitching coaches I tell ya.
Duncan
Duncan has the reputation, whether it’s deserved or not, as a being great with reclamation projects (ex: Pineiro) but struggles to reach and work with youngsters (ex: Haren). If it’s true (and I’m not saying it is true, using Wainright as an example) he may not be the best fit for Boston. Regardless, unless St. Louis is done with Duncan (unlikely), he and LaRussa have tended to be a package deal, back to their Oakland days making it unlikely he’ll be leaving STL without LaRussa.
I wouldn't mind having those two
"Every night I go to bed thinking about when I’m going to play again. I dream about playing at Fenway."-Ryan Westmoreland
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Oct 24, 2010 3:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think LaRussa is just terrible
at least these days.
Anyways, LaRussa is signed with the Cards and Duncan isn’t going anywhere.
Aww Sweet
We’ve still got Bogar.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Maybe they'll promote Bogar to pitching coach...
I can hear the visits to the mound now:
“Try a fastball straight down the middle Dice, he’ll never expect it…”
Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Oct 21, 2010 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
He's acutely aware of shoulder issues
He’s gotta have had a torn labrum with that patented windmill move of his. Maybe he can be the solution to our perceived medical staff problem.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Teets could send Bogar out for pitching changes
Right arm Pete Townsend windmill means the righty.
Left arm Pete Townsend windmill means the lefty.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
Two days ago
•La Russa said that pitching coach Dave Duncan wants a multi-year contract from the club. A Cardinals official tells Goold that “the organization is not closed off to the possibility,” which is an understatement given Duncan’s wizardry at rebuilding pitchers. Duncan leaving would be a big blow to St. Louis and would hurt their efforts to sign free agent starters, such as Jake Westbrook.
Today in St Louis Today Sports Column
All the best to the Mr. John Farrell and his family if his selection by the Blue Jays is true.
So you're saying Duncan would give us the inside track on Westbrook?
Sssssweet.
Bullpen Banter
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twitter: @alskor
Funny, but FA Westbrook is just another example of a Duncan project.
Tommy John at the end of ‘08, Tommy John again at the end of ’09, he’s already 33 and he got $11m last year. St Louis trades for two months of him at the ’10 deadline on a Cleveland salary dump and St Louis gets 9 quality starts out of 12 Westbrook visits to the bump. Is it Duncan or Westbrook or the move to the NL?
I guess the Sox at least make the call to ask STL to talk to him but Duncan is most likely not going anywhere… so moving right along.
Oh I think a lot of it is Duncan.
I’m just joking on the whole he-specializes-in-reclamation-projects angle.
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who will be Red Sox pitching coach?
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by bestbostonsports on Oct 22, 2010 12:03 AM EDT reply actions
John Farrell
nobody has ever done less with more.
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One of the many, proud OTM'ers that cannot stand Josh Beckett.
so true
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by bestbostonsports on Oct 22, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Not
Here’s another internal option texted from a freind in Maine who gets over to see the Sea Dogs.
Mike Cather. He’s active in the Sox organization. Anyone ever heard him interviewed? Interesting background.
Here’s a written interview that JB did before the Sox screwed him over for being just a blogger and not a newspaper reporter. JB has more passion for the Sox than most reporters do but he got the short end of the stick when the Sox made a policy change.
2007 & 2008 he was considered a genius around here.
I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle… though I do think he’s one of the better pitching coaches in the game.
I think sometimes its like a NBA coach… guys stop listening and you need a new voice in there. Not sure it reflects on Farrell’s abilities at all. Might just mean we have a few meatheads on our pitching staff even.
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It is very hard to tell exactly what the pitching coach is influencing
Farrell has a very good insider rep, but I have no real idea what is his doing and his true failings. Buchholz and Lester developed new pitches after leaving the minors that have been effective, but that may have nothing to do with Farrell. Farrell is somehow credited with changing Beckett’s delivery in 07, but then he must also be blamed for Beckett’s ‘10 and his continued reliance on a horrible cutter. Can’t really blame him for the pen, because he had crap to work with, and despite performing below expectations, overall the Sox starters this year were actually quite good. Who knows…
Of course
Players like Ramon Ramirez and Manny Delcarmen both slowly became less-and-less effective as their time in Boston increased.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Oct 22, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
MDC
I agree, while RamRam was always all over the place. It should be noted that by tRA (which I bring up because it take BB profile into account and thus perhaps a better statement about luck vs simply bad pitching than FIP is) the Sox had better starters than either TB or NY.
tRA isn't actually necessarily better,
mostly because FIP (or xFIP, which I actually like better) does take some fly ball% into account with home runs, and line drive% tends to not be very stable.
As far as I know, xFIP
does not take into account FB rate, it corrects for HR/FB ratio to average level. LD% as you say is a bit of grey area issue, but overall it is often still useful as a crude xBABIP estimator. In 2008 Beckett had a career high LD% (by a fair bit) and the second highest BABIP of his career. Thus, while tRA may fluctuate more than FIP, it also has a total correctof for batted ball profile.
Either way by FIP the Sox were also superior to the Rays and Yankees. The pen was putrid, but the starters were decent.
It corrects HR rate to FB%
So it very much does take into account FB%. If it’s 13*HR and 1 HR per 10 FB, than it’s 1.3*FB
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Oct 22, 2010 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
you are exactly correct. Still I think the argument stands. by xFIP Sox starters were better than the Rays starters and basically the same as the Yankees starters. Thus by 2 of the 3 metrics discuss the Sox were superior, and by the 3rd basically better than the Rays and on par with the Yankees. It is really hard to make a fact based case that Farrell is responsible for the drop in pitching results as the pen was way understaffed even to start the season (same pen as 08-Saito-Wagner+declining Oki/Paps/MDC/RamRam), while the starters were basically doing a decent job and are not responsible for bad D, randomness, etc. You could make the argument that the decline in the relievers is on Farrell (and who knows) but some of these guys have either been really volatile in the careers or aging. It is not more or less rational to me to say that Farrell should be credited with Buchholz development and use of the slider and somehow that showed in his massive improvement in results (which I don’t really buy anyway either) then to say that the decline in team pitching in ’10 is on Farrell. Point being, as I said, it is really hard to know what Farrell did well and poorly…
And in other news, the “vastly superior” (in the words of the immortal Sean O) Yankees and Rays got clean out of the playoffs by a team that one one more than our poor decimated Sox and we call all sleep well at night again!
No,
.10*13=1.3
Technically it’s at 11% actually, but eh.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Oct 23, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
yes and he's been absolutely horrible in the postseason
if the giants make it, it will be despite him, not because of him.
and he was completely lucky in the NL anyway
looking at his peripherals…
Good Riddance !!
The certified ambassador of all things good and great, here at OTM.
DO NOT OVERPAY FOR BELTRE !!!
TRADE ELLSBURY THIS WINTER !!!
One of the many, proud OTM'ers that cannot stand Josh Beckett.
In other news
A Rod watching strike 3 fly by was certainly poetic justice.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Farrell is the not so genius
who convinced Paps to be fastball only, I am pretty sure
that worked
not
and Varitek didn't help matters any.
The media asked him about Paps having secondary stuff, and he said that Paps didn’t really need it because he was a “fastball pitcher”
"Every night I go to bed thinking about when I’m going to play again. I dream about playing at Fenway."-Ryan Westmoreland
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Oct 23, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
2010, Papelbon threw the lowest % of 4seam fastballs in his career (69.8%).
.
2010, blown saves 8, losses 7, ERA 3.90, FIP 3.51, WHIP 1.27
4seamFB 69.8% (94.9mph)
sliders 8.5% (82.6)
split finger 21.7% (89.9)
2009 blown saves 3, losses 1, ERA 1.85, FIP 3.05, WHIP 1.15
4seamFB 81.4% (94.7mph)
slider 9.2% (84.1)
split finger 9.4% (89.1)
2007 blown saves 3, losses 3, ERA 1.85, FIP 2.45, WHIP 0.77, Championship Year
4seamFB 78.1% (94.3mph)
slider 6.2% (85.2)
split finger 15.7% (87.9)
There is no dought that Paps was trying to throw less fourseamers this year and was using his split finger more than ever. He didn’t throw the split for strikes, which caused him the walk more batters (28) than ever before plus he had a career high in wild pitches (4) on the splitter in the dirt. He has not lost his velocity but his horizontal and vertical movement was down from last year by about a 1/2 inch in each direction on his 4seamer.
Farrell’s philosophy is to establish the fastball first but does any other pitching coach not emphasize that? Don’t blame Papelbon’s 2010 season on Farrell. Take a look at his WHIP.
Much like alskor said above, sometimes the guys who are not the sharpest tools in the shed, need to hear a new voice ringing in their head. Let the search begin.
And for what it's worth...
Mariano Rivera, in his 2009 championship season, threw 93% cut fastballs and 7% 4seam fastballs. How that work out for him? Location, location, location.
2009, Mariano Rivera (39 yrs old), blown saves 2, losses 3, ERA 1.76, FIP 2.89, WHIP 0.90
100% fastballs
Saying "Well Mariano can do it" is kind of like encouraging players to get fat and drink a ton because of Ruth.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Oct 23, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Rivera is the Babe Ruth of closers.
The certified ambassador of all things good and great, here at OTM.
DO NOT OVERPAY FOR BELTRE !!!
TRADE ELLSBURY THIS WINTER !!!
One of the many, proud OTM'ers that cannot stand Josh Beckett.
How many guys can be that dominant by throwing only one pitch?
Paps should establish his fastball (which I believe is NOT a plus pitch), but he can’t just go FB after FB after FB.
"Every night I go to bed thinking about when I’m going to play again. I dream about playing at Fenway."-Ryan Westmoreland
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Oct 23, 2010 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
the point is Papelbon's fastball is not the same thing as Mo's cutter
a pitch that dirty and nasty can be thrown by itself, but I don’t think anyone else has a pitch that nasty.
exactly!
Papelbon has steadily gotten worse under John Farrell’s direction. I suspect that if he left the Red Sox and went to, say, the Cardinals, he’d immediately become an elite closer again.
Well, it does in a way
The NL Central sucks. The AL East is hard. Therefore, Paps would have an easier time in a division that sucks. As for Farrell making him worse, no chance. I don’t know what his problem is, but I don’t think it’s our pitching coach that’s making him stupid.
+1
I don’t think we can really blame a coach for making a pitcher worse. The only thing we can do is possibly give credit for taking and making a project better.
"Every night I go to bed thinking about when I’m going to play again. I dream about playing at Fenway."-Ryan Westmoreland
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Oct 24, 2010 3:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
javier lopez
9.26 ERA for the Sox in 2009
After getting traded to the Giants (via Pittsburgh) this year, he pitched with an 0.68 WHIP and 1.42 ERA over 27 innings.
He just won Game 6 for the Giants.
He’s going to the World Series.
There are countless examples like this. Pitchers who have inexplicably gotten worse over the past few years. Pitchers who are suddenly terrific when they leave the Red Sox.
I just don’t think Farrell brings much to the job.
his best year up until this year was also under Farrell
some people just have bad years. And it’s not like he was on the Sox for all of 2009, those numbers were over 14 appearances.
I don’t think there are countless examples of this.
Similar to what I said above
The NL West kinda sucks. the NL in general kinda sucks. The AL East is brutally difficult.
The NL West also has two really big ballparks, and Lopez happened to play half his games in one of them.
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by TheLoneDavid on Oct 24, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey, remember when Lopez was in to pitch to the LHB
and walked him on 4 pitches?
And ball 4 was in the dirt…4 feet behind him????
I don’t think that was John Farrell’s fault.
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