Terry Francona: Jacoby Ellsbury to Start in Left Field
The Providence Journal's Joe McDonald is reporting that Jacoby Ellsbury has told he will be patrolling left field in Fenway next year.
According to McDonald, Theo Epstein and Terry Francona made the decision over the last couple weeks to station the speedster in left, leaving newly acquired Mike Cameron to patrol center.
Ellsbury was disappointed by the move, and had to be reassured by Francona that the move was not a demotion. Francona likened Ellsbury to Tampa Bay outfielder Carl Crawford.
The move makes a lot of sense. While Jacoby has been considered a defensive whiz by many, advanced metrics and closer observation shows that he has issues making reads in center field, hurting his range. In a short sample size in left, Ellsbury has proven much more impressive. Mike Cameron has been a good center fielder for many years. While there was some speculation that the Sox would leave Ellsbury in center to develop for the future, the Red Sox prioritized next year's defense instead.
Combined with the plus defense of J.D. Drew in right field, the Red Sox should have one of the strongest defensive outfields in the major leagues next year.
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Damn you Francona
and your good decision making and whatnot.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
maybe the Yanks should
consider this with Granderson and Gardner
Putting Granderson in CF?
I think that’s what they’re going to do. Cashman has said that he brought in Grandy as a centerfielder not a LF. IMO, there’s not as much of a difference defensively between Gardner and Granderson as there is between Cameron and Ells.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
I mean Granderson
in LF. I think Gardner may be as much as 10 runs better (hard to know, but…)
Maybe,
I don’t think his uzr sample size is big enough to make a definitive judgment. I think he’s a good CF, but not 15.4 uzr/150 good. I’d rather have Granderson comfortable in cf so he can focus on hitting and dealing with NY rather than trying to learn a new position.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
Maybe more
Granted, Gardner hasn’t been around that long, but his UZR/150 last year in 99 games in CF was 15.4. Add in his 22 games from 2008, and his career UZR/150 in CF is 27.6. Granderson’s in 160 games last year was 1.6, and it was -9.4 in 2008.
In short, it seems like Gardner is a very good CF, while Granderson has regressed to around average after being excellent in 2006 and 2007.
I think I ...
Read that somewhere. Could have sworn the Yankee brash was talking about moving Granderson to LF
Lol we've been saying this for a long time over here
just read Boston Herald today: Bostons Leftfielder Mike Cameron – i guess you guys have no clue- OTM > Mainstream Media
by German Red Sox Fan on Jan 5, 2010 4:39 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Haha! Rec'd
"Hating the New York Yankees is as American as apple pie, unwed mothers and cheating on your income tax." -- Mike Royko
by sox-inda-south on Jan 5, 2010 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
So true...
Haven’t we called every single move of the offseason for the Sox so far? (well, other than Lackey)
Well,
in my post about not trading Buch for Halladay, I said that we could just spend the money on Halladay and keep Buch. Does that count?
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
Gotta love the front office!
They don’t listen to all the Boston Media crap…..just make decisions that better then club
I know the Rays owner visited DRaysBay.
Maybe Theo is hiding somewhere. My bet is NG, just to mess with us.
USG
That'd be funny
I know of a Red Sox owner that visits OTM…
SB Nation's Boston Red Sox community:
OverTheMonster.com
Follow Randy on Twitter: @RCBooth
Alright I admit it
I’m Theo Epstein
by drabidea on Jan 5, 2010 5:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Do you really? That's awesome.
Who? Or can’t say?
"Hating the New York Yankees is as American as apple pie, unwed mothers and cheating on your income tax." -- Mike Royko
by sox-inda-south on Jan 5, 2010 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
Oh yeah right.....
"Hating the New York Yankees is as American as apple pie, unwed mothers and cheating on your income tax." -- Mike Royko
by sox-inda-south on Jan 5, 2010 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
Speaking of the Boston media ...
From today’s Rob Neyer chat on ESPN:
Barry (Eastenders)
What do you make of the quote from Dan Shaughnessy, “The stat geeks, those get-a-lifers who are sucking all the joy out of our national pastime, no doubt will be able to demonstrate that Edgar was better than Lou Gehrig and Rogers Hornsby. I’m not buying. Stats don’t tell the whole story. A man can drown in three feet of water.” Sucking the joy out of our national past time Rob?
Rob Neyer (12:40 PM)
After I read that, I felt like maybe killing myself. Because, you know, I’m such a terrible person. More on this later maybe, in the blog. If I can cheer up a little.
CHB is such a tool.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jan 5, 2010 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
The vitreol of the MSM is really impressive at times, especially since the people who actually run the (good) teams use the same stats.
More advanced ones, even.
USG
The Bahstids!
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jan 5, 2010 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
I can see that.
If the Yankees spent $300 million on payroll every year and no one could compete with them, that’d really suck for fans of the other 29 teams and of competitive baseball.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
I don't understand? He's SOOO much more popular on the Pats Pulpit forum!
For those fair-minded, informed articles on Randy Moss that he’s written …
To be fair, they'd have to be complete morons to listen to most of the Boston media
I don’t know, maybe I’m exaggerating a little, but it sure seems like most of the sportswriters around here are miserable jerks who don’t understand anything beyond the basic statistics that dominated baseball thinking 50 years ago and are so devastated by their lack of athletic talent that they spend their days bitching and moaning about how much smarter they are than the people who have been bringing championships to the area the past few years.
"TRADE EVERYONE FOR ADRIAN GONZALEZ"
“PROSPECTS ARE WORTHLESS HUNKS OF MEAT! LOL OTHER GMS FOR TAKING THEM!
WAIT, WHAT DO YOU MEAN HANLEY WAS ONCE ON THE RED SOX?!”
USG
yeah, but most fans aren't paid to know anything
In theory, the MSM folks are paid to know wtf they are talking about.
Its such an epic fail that so many do not.
I think they are getting better
But not all, as you (hopefully) saw in my “Cameron or Ellsbury?” post from today. Those guys who were Sox beat writers.
I think some Boston Sox writers, like Benjamin and Abraham, are forward thinkers.
SB Nation's Boston Red Sox community:
OverTheMonster.com
Follow Randy on Twitter: @RCBooth
Hence the qualifier "most"
Benjamin and Abraham are exceptions.
Agreed
I also like Alex Speier on WEEI.com. Rob Bradford is pretty good.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jan 5, 2010 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
WEEI and Boston Media
Most on WEEI are Red Sox mouthpieces. Don’t have a good handle on Speier on weei.com, but Bradford is the ulitmate Sox suck-up. Hey, I don’t blame them, its better for thier business. I don’t really care for Shaugnessey, he is just trying to get attention for his struggling business (Boston Globe), but I do respect the fact that he is one of the few writers that will take the Sox to task on issues. Massarotti is another one. Sure, they can be annoying to us fans that love the Red Sox, but at least you get another side.
I'm sorry but 'another side' != 'deserving respect'
Choosing the contrarian position is fine if it is well founded.
But these guys Shaughnessy in particular and Massarotti to a lesser extent) jump to all kinds of extreme positions without any sort of basis to their arguments. Clearly band-wagoning and openly inciting merely to get attention.
Both of these guys USED to be good. A loong loong time ago. Neither has done anything to warrant any ‘respect’ in years.
Agreed on Shaughnessy
He offers up the other side with no idea as to how to argue it.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jan 6, 2010 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
The problem is that these all seem to base their opinions on who talks to them the most. Whichever athlete treats CHB like less of a nerd is his favorite. That’s fine. But it turns out he is entirely thoughtless, and is still given a BBWAA ballott for the HOF. It is shameful.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
yeah, as I posted elsewhere
last night Lou Merloni tried (futily) to explain the rational behind Theo’s moves and his explanations, though not using numbers, were right in line with what we all have been talking about. Felger and Tanguay just wouldn’t accept any of it.
And this morning on WEEI’s Dennis & Callahan show Jon Meterparel tried to explain how UZR150 showed Lowel’s defense costing us games last year … but got cut off and ridiculed, of course.
I’m not a big JMP fan, but i’ll give him props for trying.
Mike Adams has also been digging more and more into stats this year on his show. I got to give him credit for that.
So they aren’t ALL idiots. Just the most obnoxious, loudest ones are.
Meterparel
Meterparel has been on Theo’s bandwagon ever since he bashed them over the years and DID NOT get the WEEI broadcasting job that went to Dale Arnold. He has learned his lesson if he wants a job with the Sox. I seem to recall he called Theo a brat when Theo left the Sox for a while.
Benjamin incorporated UZR into her article on Cameron today
citing fangraphs.com, no less. The tides are turning, and soon the traditionalists will be dead or discredited.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
I went to high school with a guy who is writing for the New Hampshire Union Leader and keeps this blog. He is super stats-savvy and a good example of where the MSM will be when the big papers start hiring some fresh blood.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
Who wrote the Fanpost more than a month ago advocating exactly what the Sox have done? was it wolf? Anyway, good news for the Sox.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
Yep
It was Hix.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jan 5, 2010 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
JD Drew in Left
Why not put J.D.-Through-with-you in Left field? since he has NO range… then get Jacoby in Right, with all that ground to cover he would make up for Drew being so terrible, it could save 30 runs a year!
um
not sure how to respond to that. As Drew is one of the better defensive RFs in the game. His UZR/150 last year was 15.7.
Yep Drew has tons of range
Because he gets good reads, he doesn’t have to dive all the time like Ellsbury. Also, Drew has a very strong arm, a requirement for a good RF. LF is the OF position where you put a player with a weak arm like Ellsbury.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jan 6, 2010 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
This
Pay attention Bunt, JD is an awesome fielder. He makes everything look so easy cuz he’s always under the ball and waiting for it to drop into his glove. When the ball shoots around that curved wall in right, I’ve never seen him misplay it as others have. He also has a good arm; better than Ellsbury’s for sure.
As has been said, Drew is an incredible fielder.
He glides out there.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jan 6, 2010 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
Positional shifts
OK, you UZR stat guys, remember this; these are actual players, real people we are talking about here. Ellsbury was not happy about moving from CF for some retread guy on a 2 year contract, and I don’t blame him. Hell, my 11 year old was not happy when he got moved to right; CF is a glamor defensive position and maybe a position Ellsbury has played his entire baseball life. What can he do about it? Nothing for now. But I still value stability on the team and Ellsbury has done nothing to deserve losing his position. Do I expect he will be a problem? No. But I would not mess with a budding talent for the sake of a guy, Cameron, that is so good the Sox are his 12th team, or something like that.
BTW, I heard the WEEI morning show also and the quick UZR discussion. I’m even more skeptical now when the numbers show Ellsbury totally SUCKS has a CF compared to his peers. C’mon, I have seen him play a few hundred times and he looks pretty good to me.
'glamour' position
Have you looked back at the names that have played Fenway’s LF? Maybe not defensive studs – but there are some seriously huge shoes he’s going to be playing in. He won’t be able to fill them with his bat – so he should take it as a goal to show he’s just as valuable with his OBP, speed & defense.
Ells will understand that this is the bigs. He is not an 11 year old. This is not Little League. You play to your strength if you want to succeed. Winning games builds all the chemistry you need.
A few points:
(1) No one has to "remember" that players are "real people." Nobody has said otherwise.
(2) So what if Ellsbury is unhappy? I’m sure Mike Lowell isn’t happy about losing his job in Boston. He also isn’t too happy about maybe having to learn a new position: 1B. Ells has played both corner OF positions before. He has 1956.1 innings in CF and 777.1 innings in LF/RF, which breaks down to Ells playing roughly a third of his pro innings away from CF.
(3) Baseball is a team game. Players like Lowell and Ellsbury understand that baseball teams will do what they think is best in order to win. Basically, Jacoby Ellsbury isn’t like your 11-year old. If he is, the Sox have a huge problem. Ells should understand that the Sox acquired Mike Cameron because he has been a top CF for years.
(4) By all accounts, Mike Lowell is a valued member of the Sox clubhouse. Should the Sox start Lowell just because he is a "team leader," great for team chemistry, or whatever cliché you want to use? No. Beltre is an upgrade over Lowell at 3B, just as Cameron is an upgrade over Ells in CF. Ellsbury is far better than Jason Bay in LF.
(5) Cameron isn’t a retread. Nor is it relevant how many teams he has played on. Players switch teams. It’s a fact of modern baseball. Randy Johnson just retired. He’s a likely first-ballot HOFer—and he played on 6 teams in his career, one fewer than Mike Cameron.
(6) UZR merely measures how many balls hit into a zone are turned into outs and rates the players based on averages for that position. Whether your eyes tell you Ells is a great fielder or not, the Sox didn’t make as many outs in CF as they should have last year. (BTW, my eyes tell me Ells wasn’t very good last year). People really have to get over their fear of certain stats, especially since most people quote stats to evaluate baseball players. They just use different numbers.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jan 6, 2010 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
well refuted.
Scoops, read all of this carefully.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
Ellsbury is a "budding talent", but I'm not sure that he's one for this team.
Let’s look at the facts: Boras client in a team with a backload of outfield prospects, with the best (Westmoreland) due to arrive when Ells is up for free agency. He’s been a good but not great offensive producer whose main draw (steals) is both overvalued AND matched by his future competition (Westmoreland has elite speed and was something like 20:0 SB:CS in Lowell). His problems on defense are in an area that is not easily fixed (getting bad reads) and have been acknowledged not only by the stat geeks, but by pretty much everyone not part of the mainstream media. It passes the eye test—he gets bad reads on balls, which cost him a good portion of the short time he has to get where he’s going.
I’m not saying that the writing is on the wall with Ellsbury, but I don’t think he’s such a definite fixture of the future that we should be weakening the team to “invest” as it were. I expect his fielding isn’t as bad as all that—probably closer to average, having either had a particularly bad or unlucky year—but it’s just not that good. And he’s not that important to the Red Sox organization’s future.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jan 6, 2010 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder.
We’ve been hearing about his BP power forever, I wonder if it will ever show up. It’s not unprecedented that a slappy, speedy, CF-type might develop power later in his career.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
I wonder if Finley was originally projected to add power, though.
Ellsbury certainly never was.
Still, stranger things have happened.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jan 7, 2010 12:48 AM EST up reply actions
Hasn't that been the talk about Ellsbury?
That he has batting practice power, and that eventually that will translate more to the games?
Manny ain't the only bad man.
I think of it more as gap power. Not necessarily more HRs, but more 2Bs, and considering Ells’ speed probably more triples as well.
by Gnick on Jan 9, 2010 3:19 AM EST up reply actions
"looks"
Explain the “looks good” part please…and you could argue that Cameron is on his 7th team because many teams find him as a valuable asset just not someone good enough to lock up long term.
Looks
OK, I actually watch the games and when I see a ball hit to Ellsbury in CF I don’t cover my eyes. Based upon my observations Ellsbury can field his position well. UZR seems to indicate he should be waived.
you need to understand what each is telling you
Your eyes see Ellsbury running fast and catching the ball, sometimes making a spectacular diving play. They see he is athletic, fast and has great body control. They don’t see him catching the ball that is completely out of his range. They don’t see him getting a terrible late jump because he just doesn’t read the ball well. By the time your eyes have moved to watch him, it is already too late. Unless you stare at him and see how he reacts at the crack of the bat – and do this 100s of times – you are simply not watching him at the point where his weakness is showing up. Our eyes do see that he has a mediocre arm.
UZR is telling you that he is not getting to as many balls as a CF should (who is fielding his position well). We know he is physically fast. We know he has a good glove (our eyes don’t see him dropping. UZR also tells us that he does better in LF – where reading the ball is MUCH easier than CF. Deductive reasoning tells us that the reason he is not getting to enough balls is because he is getting a late jump – almost certainly because he doesn’t read the ball in CF as well as he can in LF.
Unfortunately, getting a straight-up read on a ball is something that is largely innate (based on your vision & depth perception). No matter how good his skills get with the glove, he probably will never be more than a marginal CF.
But that’s okay. He could be an absolutely fantastic LF!
There is a chance that you are right.
People say that UZR needs a few years for the sample size to get big enough to trust. But, unfortunatley, its looking like Ells sucks in CF.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
Wow
Can’t wait to tell my basball buddies, and not in the barroom, (I am an LL and AAU baseball coach) that Ellsbury may suck as an outfielder. I’ll report back. I’ll also ask a few minor league guys that may have played with Ellsbury. I’ll ask the players about thier UZR ratings also.
seems like a good idea
A natural CF in center, and a guy with better LF numbers in left.
"Baseball is drama with an endless run and an ever-changing cast." - Joe Garagiola
Chowdah Chatter - an outlet for my random thoughts and such.

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