Bloody Sox Laundry, 9/18 - Umps Bumped, Players Pumped
by bdalebs on Sep 18, 2009 5:00 AM EDT
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PrintNot the best way to wrap up a series, but you can't win them all. Cool pregame ceremony yesterday too - the Sox have done a lot of good things for the men and women who serve this great country.
Youk's back today, and the hazing starts this road trip. I'm hearing Wizard of Oz, with some random extras. Hopefully none of the rookies follow the umps' lead:
Umps file complaint after being "verbally abused" by Angels coaches Wednesday night - Boston Herald
I'm sure this will go over well with the Angels. I'm not the only one finding it hilarious that the ANGELS are one of the teams we're fighting with, right?
Big Moment For Lowrie -- Hartford Courant
I had to.
SoxProspects.com 2009 Player Awards
Wouldn't mind seeing USG do this - or maybe a community poll? Hix has already got the User Awards going - check the first GT from yesterday.
After the jump, we discover that Green is crazy gritty, and that we're going to be sick of a certain phenom by December.
Hobbled Green stands and delivers - Boston Herald
Well, that explains why he fell to his knee after a fouled pitch. Pretty amazing that he managed to stay out there, if he really was on the verge of collapsing. I guess that means Gonzo and Jed are the playoff SS.
Red Sox Could Reenter the Mix for Felix Hernandez this Offseason - NESN
I'm going to make a bold prediction - it doesn't happen. No particular reason.
SURPRISE:
BtB Power Rankings: Through Wednesday, September 16th, 2009 - Beyond the Box Score
BtB Power Rankings, now with catcher fielding included! The Red Sox finally edge out the Rays on paper. And yet Tek has been horrible for two straight games. I hate deviations.
Tell me why I'm wrong about Felix, or just drop some links and comment on the day's events. Also, expect trolls.
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You may be right about Felix
…because Seattle no longer can acquire Buchholz for him. He’s off the table now. WIll they settle for a package of Bowden and Pimental? They will, if the other offers are of a lesser water.
Make no mistake – this ain’t the deer-in-headlights Toronto FO. Felix WILL get dealt. But the real wild card is this: With the apparent success of Buchholz, thanks to an extended incubation period, will the Sox decide that the best course is to trust their collective judgement, hold fast and wait for the next generation of pitchers to arrive? And with all the frustrations attendant to Matsuzaka over the past few years, and long-term analysis of the Yanks’ splashy signings, will the Sox be more leery of the big-name acquisition route?
No trade, I think.
Plus, you are going to Baseball Hell for your lack of faith in Gonzo. So I hope you’re a Cubs fan.
except I think Felix is the one person that the sox would be willing to trade Buchholz for- a younger, more dominant pitcher. I don’t think it will happen, because I think that the price will be Buchholz + a lot, which will probably be more than the FO wants to give with a already solid pitching rotation, just saying that in the case of someone like Felix, probably even Buchholz isn’t off the table.
I think our rotation for next year looks pretty solid with Beckett, Lester, Buchholz, Matsuzaka, and Wakefield, or if wakefield retires, some FA on a one or two year deal
This absolutely.
Do I want to trade for him now that Buck has come into his own? Not really, because I expect the added talent on top will outweigh the difference between them. I expect any trade for Felix will include a ridiculous amount.
On the other hand, I fully expect them to extend Felix. The Mariners aren’t exactly a small-market team, and Felix is their name. If anyone at all expects that Minnesota might extend Joe Mauer (and that has been said by many people in many places), I don’t see why it’s not infinitely more likely for Seattle to extend Felix. Sure, they listened to offers, but it was really just in hopes that someone would offer their entire farm system and a bag of chips.
by Ben Buchanan on Sep 18, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Pretty much
The Mariners have already said their preference is to sign King Felix to an extension this offseason. That doesn’t sound like a team willing to give up and go into rebuilding mode by dealing off their best player. However, if for some unknown reason an extension doesn’t get done, then yes, he will be traded, that’s only logical.
If we’re seriously going to consider King Felix a trade option if the above happens, here’s another name to consider as well: Josh Johnson. In fact, his agent has already been fairly vocal about wanting to get an almost free agent market rate for JJ to sign an extension with the usually tightwad Marlins. He could actually move teams this offseason.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Sep 18, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
wow
imagine having both him and lester. We’d have a monopoly on awesome 25-year-old leftys.
I’m sure he will go somewhere, I can’t imagine the Marlins affording to keep both him and Hanley around for long. It would be great if it was to Boston, though I’m sure with what his agent is saying, when he does become a FA it’s going to be one of those giant red sox-yankees bidding wars.
the Yanks
will definitely be looking for fresh pitching meat. Petitte’s coming to the end of the road, and who knows how long before Joba flames out.
by Mister Snitch on Sep 18, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility to see Johnson moved
I bet most Marlins fans don’t think he should be paid more than Hanley, and if he really wants a bit market deal for an extension, it wouldn’t surprise me to see them see what kind of offers they could get for him. The Sox could definitely see how he does next year then try and lock him up if they think he’s worthy.
The problem is trying to make a deal work for Johnson without giving up Clay or Kelly + Westmoreland, and I don’t know if I see that happening. I think the FO might have a large trade in them this offseason, but I’m curious to see what they could get without dealing Clay.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Sep 18, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I REALLY don't want to give up Kelly or Manifest.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
Neither do I, really
But for some reason I think a trade of a decent quality is going to happen this offseason, either for a pitcher or a position player. I just hate everyone thinking we should deal Clay (not here, but other places), especially for a position player. It just creates more holes and uncertainty in our rotation.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Sep 18, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
my thing about kelly
is that I’d love to see him pitch for the sox. But I feel like he doesn’t want to do that, I feel like he really wants to play short and I haven’t seen any evidence that he can hit well enough to be viable as a position player. Sometimes I feel like it’s better to move a player than to make them take a spot they don’t want to (for example I’m fairly sure that the real reason we moved laroche for kotchman was that laroche really wanted to be playing every day so he wasnt a good fit… it’s all about attitude)
Meh, I think Kelly will give up the SS dream
You can make a very obvious argument to him that it’ll take him much longer for him to make the big leagues as a SS, if ever does, compared to his path to the majors as a pitcher.
Really, as long as you’re confident that he can add some velocity, he’s a #1/#2 kinda guy. He’s already got the poise and command. If he can up those MPH fastballs, I don’t really want to trade him.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Sep 19, 2009 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
True
It’s VERY possible that the marlins will want to move JJ, who is an awesome pitcher ( FIP 3.06 and a tRA of 3.31), but Nolasco is very underrated and he could be a terrific 5th starter if Wake is out.
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
I agree that King Felix might be too on-the-nose
not generally the Sox’ style, going after the most obvious names. But they will do that on occasion – witness Manny Ramirez, Pedro Martinez, and the attempt at Tex.
by Mister Snitch on Sep 18, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree about Nolasco
The only reason I mentioned Johnson was mainly for the posturing and frank nature of his agent already happening (I remember reading a story back in June or so where his agent said that JJ wanted near Burnett money to extend with the Marlins).
But yes, Nolasco would do well here.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Sep 18, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Not Buchholz
They won’t trade Buch now, not with all they’ve invested in him and all the promise he is now showing. And you can make an argument for getting Felix, for sure. He’s young, he’s (apparently) the Real Thing, and he’s still (relatively) cheap for a couple of years. It’s a tempting deal, though not with Buchholz involved. But I get the sense that the Sox just won’t do it.
The one way I see this happening is if they plan on letting Beckett go after next year. If they’re thinking about not resigning him after this year, then I can see where they might go after Felix now. Peter Gammons thinks they won’t resign him: http://firebrandal.com/2008/02/04/josh-beckett-a-goner-after-2010.html
And though the Sox would resign a healthy Wake in a heartbeat, those back problems only get better temporarily. They don’t go away.
So, could next year be: Beckett, Lester, Buhholz, Matsuzaka and King Felix, in anticipation of Beckett’s final year? Yeah, if they are looking ahead and seeing Beckett depart (and Lester get a lot more expensive soon thereafter), I can see where they might.
I see the overworked USG says Seattle won’t trade Felix unless someone makes an outrageous offer. That’s possible too, and would make all this speculation moot. But as far as signing ‘signature’ players, I seem to remember a kid named Griffey…
by Mister Snitch on Sep 18, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Probably wrong about Lester
Now I seem to recall that Lester is locked up for a few years, is that right? In which case, never mind that part.
by Mister Snitch on Sep 18, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Lester is locked up through '13 I want to say.
by Ben Buchanan on Sep 18, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, we've even got a team option for '14.
God, that’s actually such a fantastic contract they got for him. Credit Theo for not sending him to Minny for Johan.
by Ben Buchanan on Sep 18, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, the Sox got a good deal, but...
I would imagine Lester was told something along the lines of “You know, John Henry’s a smart investor, and he doesn’t see the economy going ANYwhere for a few years”. (And I suspect he really does feel that way.) I imagine Pedey et al were told pretty much the same thing. Lots of empty seats at the new NY stadia (not so much when the Sox show up of course), and no clues how to fill ’em.
Makes a young man want to lock up something secure for a few years.
by Mister Snitch on Sep 18, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
i just don't think it would happen
I don’t really think that without Buchholz we would be able to make an offer that would appeal enough to Seattle to let go of King Felix, so I stand by what I said that I don’t think we will trade for him, but if we didn I can’t imagine that Buchholz wouldn’t be involved.
Obviously it’s too far along to say, but I’m guessing they intend to re-sign Beckett after next year, just because I don’t think we have anyone in the minors who is going to be ready after next year to be dominating enough to justify getting rid of him. I’d be less surprised to see us trade for a much less expensive one year of Halladay than for Felix, and then re-signing either Halladay or Beckett after 2010.
But then maybe I need to think about that more, because the 2011 team is going to look a lot different than the one we have right now.
I agree we resign Beckett.
Cliff Lee and Doc being FAs at the same time should keep his price reasonable (60/4 or so), and we may well be able to extend him over the offseason since he has to be just as wary of a repeat of ‘08 as we are. I just think the Sox are more likely to keep Beckett than to risk Doc’s age/overuse, and Lee’s inconsistencies (he’s got the potential to be paid like CC but perform like AJ, let’s just say).
by Ben Buchanan on Sep 18, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think
they’d go for Halliday or Lee if Beckett turned out to be too rich for their blood. Gee, the more I think about this the more I think they’ll at least make a solid run at Felix. Wake, I’m afraid, is likely unable to continue. They won’t resign Dice unless he really turns it around, and Beckett may try to hold them up. Lester today is the anchor that Beckett once was, and Buch is the up-and-comer Lester was. I think I see a spot for Felix. Just not in exchange for Buch, but rather for a couple of pitchers in the system and a couple of position players as well.
If they do NOT get Felix one way or another (maybe Seattle WILL keep him), THEN they know for sure they have to re-sign Beckett. I think that’s the way they roll – One matter dictates the next.
by Mister Snitch on Sep 18, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
... Beck was better in 08 than he was in 07, by a few measures, IIRC.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
He's had up and down years with the Sox, tho
That’s the danger with extending him: The Beckett who first showed up at their door – but older – might reappear. You don’t WANT that.
by Mister Snitch on Sep 18, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Wake's supposed to get surgery this winter, to fix it properly.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
You're never the same
after back surgery. I’d like to be wrong. Maybe they have new exotic treatments for athletes for bad backs, I don’t know. It’s not like having a broken bone set though.
by Mister Snitch on Sep 18, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not like he's putting loads of stress on his body by pitching.
As long as he takes care of himself on offdays.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
He's over 40. You're 16.
You have NO idea! And that’s…. OK.
by Mister Snitch on Sep 18, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
My dad had to have major back surgery when I was a toddler.
Fell of a mountain – he’s fine now. And he’s almost 50.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
that's interesting
Does he do physical work? Is he a gardner, or the Witchita Lineman? ‘Cause it don’t count if he’s OK sitting at a desk.
by Mister Snitch on Sep 18, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
He's in the Air Force.
But he’s at an Army Fort right now, so he’s got to meet their standards. Beats most of the young kids.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
Meh, I'm already a Bears fan.
And I’m Catholic, so the whole self flagellation thing comes naturally.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
Also, stop trying to make so much work for me, man.
Between school and work, I’m dying here. I haven’t even managed to get minor lines out in a few days. (Though, unfortunately, there’s not much to tell…)
Mariners are going to extend King Felix
Using the money they freed up by trading Ichiro to the Yankees to play LF. MUAHAHAHAHA
/Knows I’ll probably get bashed but whatever, Ichiro is awesome.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
And betray True Yankee Johnny Damon?
That’s disgraceful. You should be ashamed of yourself. What’s next, trading Jeter and acquiring Hanley Ramirez?
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
Im not convinced Felix will re-up with Seattle
and I also believe that if he does not show interest in extending, Felix will be traded very quickly so that Seattle does not get screwed like Minnesota and Toronto.
Seattle has seen what happens if you hold your soon to be FA chip, you get far, far less in a trade, so first they will try and extend him, then they will move him quickly.
I also think a deal can be done with Seattle that could be 1) includes Dice-K as the central piece (mainly bc of Ichiro, Johjima and part of the ownership is Japanese) or 2) includes a bunch of prospects but not Buchholz. Casey Kelly and Tazawa are valuable chips to Seattle, maybe not Buchholz, but pieces that might work.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves
Seattle will free up a lot of payroll after this year. They’ll lose Beltre’s contract ($13.4 million), Washburn is gone ($10.3 million), Miguel Batista ($9.5 million), Bedard ($7.75 million), and others. The M’s had an Opening Day payroll of around $99 million. They have about $44 million in payroll obligations for next year.
King Felix is under team control until 2012. Why would they move him right now? They can certainly afford him with all the money coming off the books. Another thing to consider is Dice-K. He has a no-trade clause in his contract.
Look, I’d love to see Felix Hernandez pitch for the Sox. But there’s no compelling reason for Seattle to move him. Too often, fans put together wish lists of players they want. Then, they put together packages of prospects they overrate and assume that’s a good deal for the other team. Unless Seattle is blown away by an offer and is inclined to move their best pitcher, expect King Felix to be in an M’s uniform next season.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Sep 18, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont think Felix wants to play for Seattle.
and I think if he balks they will move him quick bc many teams would be interested.
Why would Felix want to play for Seattle a losing organization, who cannot pay him the maximum he is worth in a town with little or no latin influence?
its just a feeling but I think Felix will be in either a Red Sox, Dodger, Yankee, or Angel uniform in 2010.
As for Dice-K, his best friends are Johjima and Ichiro and the ownership is part Japanese, i really doubt he will be a stickler for the no trade clause.
that's interesting too
Any quotes from him to the effect he ‘wants to play for a winner’ or some such? ‘Cause certainly that’s a factor. If he just does not want to win for a midrange or losing team, Seattle just won’t be able to extend him. They’ll be facing free agency with a player who’ll be shopping himself around.
That’s a whole different spin on things.
by Mister Snitch on Sep 18, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
They talked about extending him
this season and got a very “nothing” response from him and his agent.
Also just a little something else to throw on the fire, he is from Venezuela and guess who else if from Venezuela?
VMart. Coincidence, sure, but its nice to have a fellow country man around to show off.
Just one other point
we all know that Theo rarely takes shots in the dark or makes uniformed moves…why would Theo all of a sudden take a shot at Felix?
Maybe we don’t know everything that is going on behind the scenes in the MLB front offices. Maybe Seattle already knows Felix will not sign and Theo just tried to jump the competition on getting Felix.
Makes sense to me
Also, it’s part of the Sox’ process: Felix is what they can do NOW (this offseason), Beckett is what they can only do another day. If they can sign Felix, Beckett won’t have them over such a barrel when his time comes, and they can try to sign him on their terms. (Without another star on board, they’re under more pressure to get one if Beckett threatens to walk.) So, it makes good long-term sense to make an attempt to get Felix (or someone like him, if such a thing exists) over the winter. It’s all part of the master plan.
by Mister Snitch on Sep 18, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Or maybe Theo was trying to see if Felix was available
Or the M’s were just testing the market. If the rumored offer is true, it doesn’t mean Seattle was shopping their best pitcher. The Sox are always rumored to be making deals because Theo is always talking to other teams, assessing the market. Most of the time, it means nothing.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Sep 18, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
You're missing the point
It doesn’t matter want Felix wants. He is under team control for two more years. Seattle has the money to sign him.
All this speculation is fine, but it’s nothing but speculation (like “Washington will definitely move Dunn because they can’t afford him”). Logically, the M’s have no compelling reason to move him unless they want to—and are absolutely blown away by another team’s offer. Look at the rumored offer they turned down. If they turned that deal down, the Sox are going to have to pony up an awful lot to get him: Buchholz, Bard, Kelly, etc.
In my opinion, King Felix isn’t likely to be moved this off-season. And, if he is moved, Boston will have to gut their system to get him.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Sep 18, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd.
This is exactly what I was looking for when I said “no particular reason.”
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
IMO thats
a little far fetched. Felix is younger than Buchh with a great track record at the mlb level. You’re not gonna get him by trading a bunch of A-Ballers. Buchh would most definitely have to be in the package along with most of your top notch guys. Trading for Felix would hurt.. bad.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Sep 18, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Sep 18, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Hurt as in having a starting rotation with
Lester, Buchholz, Dice-K, Felix and possibly Beckett?
Yeah that will hurt.
You guys dont have to believe me but Felix is not resigning with Seattle and LeBron is a NY Knick in 2 years, bank it.
It's unlikely Buchholz and Felix will ever be in the same rotation in Boston
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Sep 18, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree as usual with SoxAcumen
he really smart
by Mister Snitch on Sep 18, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
love that screen name
“Casanova Wong” is a name just crying out for a screen treatment.
by Mister Snitch on Sep 18, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
uh... 'treatment' for the movies that is
don’t know how clear I was, sorry
by Mister Snitch on Sep 18, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha, thanks I can't take credit for it though
I stole it from an old kung fu movie star from South Korea.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Sep 18, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Hahah, nah I thought you guys were gonna send Lowrie and Papelbon and Chris Carter
to Miami for HanRam? True Yankee/Short Porch Beneficiary Johnny Damon can DH. It’s True Yankee/ Noted Porn Enthisuast Hideki Matsui that can hit the road.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
Spelled enthusiast wrong, oops.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Sep 18, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Can the Sox have more than one 'porn enthusiast' on the team?
Probably that’s a question for Paul Byrd’s shrink: Niles Crane.
by Mister Snitch on Sep 18, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh man, Byrd and Matsui on the same team ould be a Pornapalooza
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Sep 18, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
On a related note:
E-Coli’s seemingly random mention of Rammstein makes sense now. Also, my friends are disgusting.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
yup. pornacopia.
of course, we already HAVE one of those: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-TA57L0kuc&feature=player_embedded
by Mister Snitch on Sep 18, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey, I found Snitch:
2.
I KNEW they’d make Tazawa Dorothy as soon as I heard of this. That was coming a mile down the road.
"Personally, I think its fun, but politically speaking, it goes against “current correctness”…"
I think that’s the whole point, Anthony.
Posted by Mister Snitch September 18, 09 12:38 PM
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009/09/red_sox_rookies.html
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
Was it like 2 years ago when the MFY went with "the wizard of Oz" in their annual rookie hazing with
Joba dressed as the Cowardly Lion? Why did they did that to Bard? They jinxed him now….:’(
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
Yeah, they stole it from the MFY.
Maybe Bard’s beard inspired them to give him a full mane?
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
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