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Game 107: That was ugly; Yanks smoke Sox


Final - 8.6.2009 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 R H E
Boston Red Sox 0 0 1 2 1 0 0 0 2 6 8 1
New York Yankees 0 0 1 8 2 1 1 0 X 13 18 0
WP: Joba Chamberlain (8 - 2)
LP: John Smoltz (2 - 5)

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Red Sox vs Yankees recap
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Has anyone seen where John Smoltz's talent has gone? It's been missing for awhile. The Boston Red Sox would really like it back -- and soon. We can't take any more 13-6 games like Thursday.

I hate beating up Smoltz, but the guy has been bad since joining the Sox. His ERA sits at 8.32 now after giving up eight runs in 3.1 innings of work. Newly-called up Billy Traber did much better by allowing just five runs in 3.2 innings of work.

A nice upgrade, huh?

Let's talk about the good: well, uh, the offense had eight hits and six runs. That's not bad, right? Dustin Pedroia and Casey Kotchman hit dingers in the game. Pedroia finished 3 for 4 with a run and two RBIs. Mike Lowell had two hits.

So the season series now sits at 8-1. The Yankees and Sox play three more games, but let's hope the Sox can make it 11-1 before it's all said and done. It's a longshot, but we can still hope.

Right? Right?!

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Well...

I did kind of expect this, Smoltz has stunk since coming to Boston. To say we need Beckett to win tomorrow is an understatement. I feel we can atleast split the series. At most we can take 3 of 4 due to the Yankees being bad against pitchers they’ve never seen before (Buchholz) and Boston’s hostory of owning C.C. It’d be an upset but I’m trying to take the optomistic view.

by sonicdeathmonkey on Aug 7, 2009 1:42 AM EDT reply actions  

They've seen Buch before.

He went starried eyed at Jeter last season.

by bdalebs on Aug 9, 2009 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Enough all ready

Smoltz has always been one of my favorites, but it’s time to cut the losses, shut him down … John, it’s time to retire

by Old Fan on Aug 7, 2009 6:52 AM EDT reply actions  

Up to this point he had only started against one real contending team (Tex).

He has not done well against mediocre/bad teams, so why should we have expected him to do well against the Yanks?

by upCHUCK on Aug 7, 2009 7:00 AM EDT reply actions  

I’d go to a straight platoon at DH rest of the season Ortiz/Lowell
Smoltz to the pen
The #5 spot goes to a revolving door Bowden/Tazawa/Byrd/Etc until Dice-K/Wake return
Speed Dice-K back, cannot be worse than what we have.
Search the waiver wire endlessly for a SS that can start over Nick Green.

It's over, Thanks Theo.

by gizmosandy on Aug 7, 2009 7:17 AM EDT reply actions  

Agreed for the most part

Smoltz to the pen and ortiz/lowell platoon at DH. I can’t stand watching Lowell flounder any more at 3rd.

Don’t rush Dice-K back, unfortunately, I think we are going to need him if we get into the playoffs.

by drabidea on Aug 7, 2009 8:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

sounds good to me

theres no reason to think that smoltz could be good in the pen though. releasing him is a possibility but more likely they’ll DL him. i think this might have been his last start. one more is all they can reasonably give him.

ortiz has returned to looking like he’s done, so a platoon with lowell at DH would give us more productivity there and spare us Mike’s defense.

The fifth spot should go to Bowden right now, but with the pattern of this year with our starters, where every one of them except for Wake needed a month or two to get up to speed (or just never got up to speed) I have no reason to believe that he could come up and be effective. same goes for byrd, tazawa, ET FUCKING CETERA. And its not like Smoltz is the only problem. Penny has been terrible. ERA of five, and he’s our default third starter. Who knows if Buch will figure it out this year. But Smoltz is the worst. Get him out now, give the spot to Bowden, and lets hope Dice-K and Wake are both back before September first. being effective is a whole other thing though, which i feel i cant even hope for now.

and yes, platooning lowell and papi would mean that Lowrie or Green would need to play third, so finding a damn SS who can play would be nice. but i think Lowrie is hurt now, so I give up

More optimistically, WE’RE GONNA TAKE THREE OUT OF FOUR, or at least split. I promise. Beckett, Buch, and Lester are gonna clean up.

Why am I more scared of the Rays than I am of the apocalypse?

by revived0103 on Aug 7, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

did Nick Green sleep with your wife or something?

I feel like every post I read you just crush Nick Green. We get it, he’s not an all-star shortstop but he certainly didn’t lose last nights game for us. Frankly, we need a heck of a lot more than a waiver wire shortstop to fix this club. Please, be more constructive with your feedback.

We are not normal. We are legends.

by NittanyAlum02 on Aug 7, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed. I think a lot of the opinions of Green were formed in his first month with the Sox when an infant could have played better D. But those days are behind us. He still makes mistakes but isn’t an abomination at SS.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Aug 7, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

He is an awful hitter, though.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Aug 7, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Green

You might be defending Green a little hard here. He’s sporting a robust .675 OPS, a .27 BB/K ratio, and is putting up a .133/.240/.241 line in his last 29 games.

by Gnick on Aug 7, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

ugh.

RIGHT! haha

personally, i would love to see tazawa be brought up, i understand it might be risky with him being a rookie and just being promoted to pawtucket, but his stuff is good.

Smoltz either needs to be moved to the bullpen, or retire with his career stats still looking amazing. OR. fake an injry if we can get someone else up here to take his spot in the rotation [tazawa] and then he can go and work on getting his stuff back. Because if hes being this persistent he must really believe that he still has it in him.

by brsatw on Aug 7, 2009 8:57 AM EDT reply actions  

Most veteran athletes refuse to admit they've lost it

Which is why you have a coach and a GM to tell them, “see ya!” If the inmates run the asylum, you’re in trouble.

A few will see the handwriting on the wall, but most won’t……..especially if they are as competitive as Smoltz.

Soon, the Sox will have to make some tough decisions, once and for all, with a few other popular veterans or this team will remain decent, but with no more championships. You cannot keep going with guys who don’t produce anymore, despite what they’ve done in the past. If you leave it up to the players, most of them will never quit. I’ve seen many sad cases of Hall of Fame players hanging on with clubs, who want them only for name value. Hell, it happened to the greatest of them all: Babe Ruth.

by ccthemovieman on Aug 7, 2009 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

revenge of the Sith

Ugh. Thank God Beckett takes the mound today. Here’s hoping he’s as good as cash, like always. And that he’s not tempted to get in on any relatiation for the Yanks drilling DP last night; the Sox need him on the field.

Re: Smoltz, I genuinely feel bad for the guy. He’s a great pitcher who’s certain to be in the Hall someday (and deservedly so), he’s a fierce competitor, and you can see how much his struggles this season are eating him up. His coming to Boston was, from the beginning, a low-cost, high-potential-payoff proposition, but I think it’s time to put the experiment to rest. The facts are that he’s a 41-year-old power pitcher coming off his second major arm surgery, and he just doesn’t have it anymore. At a certain point, he can only get hammered around so many times before it starts to become a blemish on his career, and Smoltz deserves better than that.

More casual than the average fan.

by baseball conspiracy theories on Aug 7, 2009 9:13 AM EDT reply actions  

What's the problem with Smoltz?

I’d be interested in a bs…-report with Pitch FX charts and such. Is he tipping his pitches, or is there no movement?

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Aug 7, 2009 9:19 AM EDT reply actions  

my 2 cents

His velocity has gradually gone down from start to start, and he’s not enough of a control pitcher to compensate.

At this point, I’m starting to expect the “15-day DL” announcement any time.

More casual than the average fan.

by baseball conspiracy theories on Aug 7, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why you don't do the "Pitch FX charts and such" yourself?

You’re supposed to be an author on this blog right? Or go to http://brooksbaseball.net

"Swing and a ground ball, stabbed by Foulke. He has it. He underhands to first. And the Boston Red Sox are the World Champions! For the first time in 86 years, the Red Sox have won baseball's World Championship!"

by bloodysock04 on Aug 7, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Alas, if only I had the time to do so.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Aug 7, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Smoltz Pitch Fx via Fangraphs

Smoltz worst pitch in terms of value this year has been his fastball . His changeup and slider have positive value and his curve is about even. His split finger is not very good but not even close to as bad as his fastball

His fastball has lost over 1 mph since 2007. In 2007 his fastball wasn’t a great pitch either it was his slider that was getting him by. His fastball seems to have the same movement as 2007 but it is still not moving that much and when you put it over the plate like he has been doing. Hitters are going to tag it.

His splitfinger has also lost over 2 mph since last year, his slider has lost movement, and his changeup has increased in speed.

Overall it does not look like his shoulder has fully healed and does not have the arm he once did. He could still be an average pitcher in the majors if he learns to get command back of his pitches. With the variety of pitches and movement on them with good location can still get big league hitters out.

by drabidea on Aug 7, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

His problem is...

…that his out-getter is on the fritz, and his suck-tank has backed up, and spilling into his pitching talent, contaminating it. His splits by inning go quickly from not-great to fantastically awful.

He’s gone rogue and can’t be contained. We need to put him down…

Rock me, sexy Jesus...

by nuthinboutnuthin on Aug 7, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Smoltz to the Pen, Billy Traber sent back down, Call up Bowden.

Smoltz as a starter isn’t working out. It’s a good idea to give Bowden a shot now, when we don’t have much else to lose.

Smoltz would be an improvement over Billy Traber as long relief. So moving Smoltz to the pen as long relief would solve our problem there.

If Bowden doesn’t get a shot now, than when? Next year we are possibly looking at Beckett/Lester/Dice/Buch/Wake (?) Off-season pickup (?) Bowden (?)

by ruktuim on Aug 7, 2009 10:01 AM EDT reply actions  

We need a shake-up. THAT is for sure…

by Randy Booth on Aug 7, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I just

threw up in my mouth a little. Thanks a lot.

Ian Browne aspires to be like me.

by jkeough on Aug 7, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't mind another signing

I’d really like to give Ben Sheets a look. He was supposed to be coming back around this time, so if he could be healthy by September he’d be a great addition.

by Gnick on Aug 7, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just don't buy

the relief argument with Smoltz, and maybe I’m wrong on that, but if in most of his starts he’s getting rocked in only 3 or 4 innings of work how is that going to change in (long) relief? I wouldn’t trust him with a 5 run lead and definitely not with anything less. And how often are you lucky enough to have a 5 run lead.

by AJBlue7 on Aug 7, 2009 12:40 PM EDT reply actions  

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

The game went exactly as i expected. Last night was indeed, A LOCK!!! Easy Money. Smoltz lost me enough money as i had bought into the hype and last night, he more than gave it back.

Not touching tonight’s game though. Could go either way.

The Sox need to figure something out for a 3rd pitcher behind Beckett and Lester. Hopefully Wake can come back to all-star form.

I won’t be betting on the Sox for a while until they get this figured out.

by Freddyd on Aug 7, 2009 12:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Smoltz has been terribly unucky this year.

His FIP and tRA are almost 4 runs lower than his ERA. He is striking guys out and his walks are not bad. The problem is that he is giving up a very high BABIP of .390 and more than half the runners that are getting on base are scoring. So while he has obviously been bad, I do not think he has been nearly as bad as his ERA shows.

"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw

by BTLove on Aug 7, 2009 12:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Opposing batters are also slugging the crap out of the ball.

They slug .584 against him. He’s averaging one homer and two doubles PER game. If fielding / BABIP was the only problem, it’d be all dinky singles. Batters are hitting around .340 against him, which is high, but not enough to explain the astronomical slugging.

Defense is likely an issue, but even a good defense can’t stop home runs and hard-hit doubles.

"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.

by 0157H7 on Aug 7, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

The BABIP

When you watch him pitch you can understand the incredibly high BABIP. He’s leaving 91 mph fastballs right in the middle of the zone.

by Gnick on Aug 7, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

But the Sox defense is also so bad that you can’t lay all this suckitude on Smoltz.

"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.

by 0157H7 on Aug 7, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pitching help

Is there anyone worth going after? Would Jon Garland be worth taking a look at?

by boondock_saint812 on Aug 7, 2009 2:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Him or Doug Davis have both been mentioned as possible waiver wire trades. At this point any pitching help we can get would be nice. We also need to figure out the OF, I never want to see Youk as our starting LF. There is certainly some shuffling around that needs to be done.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Aug 7, 2009 2:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Reply fail ^ suposed to be in reply to boondock

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Aug 7, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Much better?!

5 runs in 3+ innings is NEVER good.

by Sawxdrumma84 on Aug 7, 2009 4:53 PM EDT reply actions  

....

And what happened to having EIGHT potential starters at the beginning/first half of the season?!

by Sawxdrumma84 on Aug 7, 2009 4:54 PM EDT reply actions  

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