The Victor Martinez trade makes Jason Varitek's future bleak
by Randy Booth on Aug 5, 2009 3:17 PM EDT
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PrintThe Victor Martinez trade added one more body to a roster full of guys that can play first base, third base, catcher and designated hitter ... OK, so anybody can play designated hitter, but you get what I mean.
While Terry Francona juggles Kevin Youkilis, Mike Lowell, Jason Varitek, David Ortiz and Victor Martinez in the lineup on a daily basis, the real problem is going to come in 2010.
Jason Varitek's contract ends at the end of this season, but there are two options for a potential comeback in 2010: a team option worth $5 million and a player option worth $3M.
At the beginning of the season, the issue of Varitek coming back in 2010 all rested on how well he'd perform -- and it was just a matter of the team exercising its option or Varitek exercising his. But now we've got a kink in the lines with Martinez in the mix.
While that is said, Martinez's contract is also up at the end of this year, but the club has a $7.5M option for 2010 (the option was $7M, but a clause in his contract states it's raised by a half-million if he is traded). I have no doubt in my mind at this point that the Red Sox will definitely exercise his option and Martinez will be back for next season. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if they signed him to a new contract that is two-or-three years long. The only way Martinez wouldn't be coming back, in my opinion, is if he falls off the face of the map ... like that Eric Gagne guy. Everyone remembers him, right?
If Martinez comes back, Varitek is in an odd position -- as is Francona. However, if Varitek is out, we have a new starting catcher on Opening Day. The logjam is also decreased, making the roster fit a little bit better.
The next question is whether or not Martinez could be the starting catcher on a regular basis. We all know his defense isn't very good and he doesn't have many years left behind the plate, but wouldn't he be a better option than Varitek? He definitely brings a better bat to the lineup.
But there is a scenario that makes having Martinez and Varitek on the roster a little easier: if Mike Lowell is traded.
Just the thought of trading Lowell last off-season really angered a lot of fans in Red Sox Nation, but it might be a little bit easier this off-season. While Lowell is doing pretty well at the plate this year (.300 BA, 11 HR), his defense is absolutely atrocious. It's sad to say that after his amazing career at the hot corner, but it's coming to the point where his defense is costing the Red Sox runs and not saving them.
If Lowell is out, we've got to assume Youkilis would be the every-day third baseman and Martinez would be our guy at first base. Varitek, then, would be the every day catcher for another season.
In my opinion, either of these options are realistic. Lowell could definitely be traded (I'm not sure we'd get much in return, but he'd still be traded...) and Varitek might want to see if he can get some better money and more playing time elsewhere. I think the only thing that is definite in this whole situation is that Martinez's option will be picked up in the off-season.
Prepare yourselves: the Sox infield could look very different come February 2010.
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i think it would be easier
On everyone involved if Tek would just go ahead and retire. He definitely could have a career coaching with the Sox and it’s clear that he really is a drain offensively and defensively. While Lowell was an important part of 2007 his defense is atrocious and if the FO can get something for him I say pull the trigger and get younger on the hot corner. Then you can bring Lowell back to throw out the first pitch for a ring ceremony home opener. Fingers crossed
by SoxStephen on Aug 5, 2009 3:26 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
lowells bad defense this year
is totally because of his hip, and his hip will be fully healed next year. we’ll keep tek because V-Mart shouldn’t catch everyday. then we’ll sign Mauer in 2011
Why am I more scared of the Rays than I am of the apocalypse?
The next 5 games will tell us if Francona can put this puzzle togther or not
for this year. If we lose them all, we are through just like in 2006. Actually, I think we need to win 3 out of the five to make it predictably into October this year, so the next 5 games will be tense for me.
NG, they're FIVE games.
We’d still have like 50 left – CALM DOWN. Plus, WTF doesn’t this have to do with the post about Tek?
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
Juggling!
It is about managerial juggling.
BTW, I disagree that the next 5 games are just 5 more games out of 50. They are the telling barometer of this teams short term future against non-Oriole caliber teams.
by NG on Aug 5, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, okay.
Because every team that's better than the O's matches up the same against us.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
Well, you see, Tek played in 2006
So, there you go.
He also got injured and missed a good chunk of time.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
Yeah, but he was there in 2006. So you see, the post did have something to do with him. (This would be where we really need a sarcasm font.)
OH....
Yeah, too bad the hacks around here have trained us to use the subject line every time.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
Disagree
A short stretch of games will not tell you anything. You’ll know by the end of the season. It doesn’t matter where your wins come from, as long as you win. The object is to make the playoffs. Once the post-season begins, it doesn’t matter what happened in the rgular season.
Here are a few examples:
In 1999, the Red Sox were 8-4 against the MFY in the regular season. They lost to the MFY in ALCS 4-1.
In 2003, the Sox were 3-4 v. Oakland in the regular season. They beat the A’s in the ALDS 3-2.
The 2007 MFY were 6-0 v. Cleveland in the regular season. NY went 1-3 against the Tribe when it counted.
Last year, the Sox were 1-8 against the Angels. They were 3-1 v. LA in the post-season. Also, we were 1-8 in the Trop last year in the regular season and 2-2 in the post-season.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Aug 5, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
The point is that if they lose the majority of the next 5,
the barometer prediction, IMO, will be that they will not be in the playoffs to make miracles happen.
by NG on Aug 5, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont see that happening
Unless Tampa starts to really turn it on or Jake Peavy comes back to 100% there is no one in the AL better than the Red Sox, Yankees and Angels.
Once Wake is healthy, things will change back to the Red Sox favor. They will have 3 quality starters 1 average starter and who the hell knows with Smoltz and Buchholz.
If Dice-K can get healthy and in shape, then Sept does not look so bad.
I tend to agree with you, SA
Although I’m not really expecting to see Dice-K again this year.
Texas has a pretty good shot at the WC. We play them 3 more times. They also play the MFY and TB, in addition to a number of games against LA.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Aug 5, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Pitching
It doesn’t look like Wake will be back soon. I could see him coming back by Sept but not really any earlier. So for the next month we have Becket, Lester, and some crap pitching behind them.
Okay, to simplify this, let's skip tonight's game.
If we lost 3/4 of the MFY games, we fall 2 games further back. If we lose 2/4, we don’t fall back at all. Worst case scenario, we get swept, and we fall 4 games further back, which would put us 5.5 back with ~50 games left – entirely possible to come back from, esp. when we’d still have SIX GAMES LEFT AGAINST THE MFY.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
+1
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Aug 5, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
If we get swept by the Yankees,
I want you to send me your rose colored glasses, please. Preferably using a 2006 stamp.
by NG on Aug 5, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
My glasses are clear.
Dirty, with scratches all over, but clear. And I’m sorry, I don’t collect memorabilia from years that obviously traumatized me.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
So in the category of wild-ass predictions...
…suppose the Sox lose the next five but then win 20 in a row? Did the five show that they’re done, or do the 20 that come after show otherwise?
I think Tek will take his 3 mil player option
He can still call a great game…and he does have 13 homers on the season….
My bet is that it will take a considerable amount of money from another team over 3 mil to make Tek pick up his home from Boston and move. I don’t think a team will offer that much money.
Jason Varitek
I would not want to render a guess on what he will do in 2010. There are too many unknown factors and heck …alot of things can happen from now until then. One Day At A Time Sweet Jesus …One Day At A time ! There’s alot of baseball still to be played this year so why worry about next year and why so soon ?? PLAY BALL ! BUY ME SOME PEANUTS AND CRACKER JACKS !
People should also forget Vmart as a catcher
and think of it as a nice bonus once in awhile when someone needs a day off or in a pinch hit/run situation (As should also be the thought process for Tito).
It has been well documented on OTM that his numbers are not that great when playing C.
Yeah...
…this is why I was in the unsure category. VMart’s numbers go down when he’s catching a lot, Varitek’s well-documented “intangibles” with the pitching staff…hard to say what’ll happen next year. I don’t know if I’d necessarily be surprised either way.
Maybe move Kottaras and have ’Tek catch Wakefield, with VMart spelling ’Tek once or twice a rotation behind the plate?
Man I love that tuna casserole.
I might be the only one
but I really don’t see Lowell playing 3B next season. He looks old, tired and hurt. He might have a good year as a DH for someone though bc he can still hit.
I think that Lowell will be the odd man out and V-Mart will move to 1st with Kotchman as the backup.
2010 is going to be a year in which the Red Sox transforms into something new and better. I don’t see Papelbon, Dice-K or Lowell being on the team at the beginning of the season. My guess would be Papelbon to the Cubs for “X”, Dice-K to the Dodgers for M. Kemp (since they hate him) and Lowell retires.
Problem is Lowell is on contract for something like 10-12 mil next season
If we did trade him I’m sure we would still be paying the majority of that..might as well hope that he heals up over the off season and get his D together
Considering that we're paying undermarket value for production from Youk, VMart, Tek, DP, Jed, Green, Ells, Lester, etc...
I’m okay with paying Lowell a little extra to be a bench bat.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
I kinda agree.
I think Lowell will be in platoon with Papi as the DH next year, assuming he doesn’t retire. VMart will be the starter at 1B, while playing catcher every few games to spell Tek. Youk will be the starter at 3B, and Kotchman will play 1B on days VMart can’t.
Most of your ideas for trades seem like pipe dreams though. I’d rather give Dice-K another shot to learn to pitch American while healthy. I would have liked to see Paps swapped for Kemp before the Dodgers got Sherill this year though – sadly, the Dodgers might have actually done it.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
Agreed on the Dice-K Part
Dice-K can bring alot more then just his pitching. He has already brought Tazawa. Who knows the other prospects that are willing to sign with the Red Sox because of how we treat Dice-K.
You might be right
I am just spitballing ideas. Paps is gone, eventually, just bc Bard has been so successful. Cubs have money, need a real closer and they can turn around and tell their fans that they are trying to get better if they send a package of prospects to Boston.
As for Dice-K, I believe his future with Boston is contingent on what happens in Sept. If he comes back and helps the team, he probably stays, if not, I think Theo will look to move him. Just guessing I think the two most obvious places for Dice-K to go is LAD and Seattle. Two Japanese friendly teams. For some reason the Dodgers do not like Kemp so he would be the man I would guess they would be trying to move.
I want Paps gone too, but IDK if the Cubs will be the team to bite on him.
Dice-K’s likely done for the season, and I still think he’s more about the image we present to Japanese prospects. I’d love to get Kemp, but I think that keeping Dice-K nets us better prospects than we could get by trading him. Plus, do you really want either the M’s or the Dodgers to become the team that gets to use the Japanese leagues as a second farm system?
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
My guess is the Astros.
Good sized market. Always think of themselves as contenders, have a ton of blown saves, etc. On the other hand, they don’t really have much of a farm system to speak of.
And we would not be able to get either Pence or Bourne.
Both of them are fan favorites, I would think, and either would require more than Paps to acquire. Plus, we don’t really need either – Bourn’s basically Ells and Pence is a lower ceiling Reddick, IIRC.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
If the Indians hadn't up-and-decided to rebuild, we probably could've targeted a catching prospect.
But they don’t need Paps if they’re not looking to win.
Exactly.
There’s not much of a market for Paps, sadly. I would have loved to see Theo give Paps the proverbial finger and send him to the Dodgers for Kemp. Can you imagine Paps face if he was told he gets to become a teammate to Manny, “a cancer to the team”, again? Combine that with his likely demotion to setup man behind Bronxton, and Paps would HATE us.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
They already do get Japanese players
I would think the Dodgers and M’s are #2 and #3 behind the Red Sox in popularity. M’s are run by part Japanese ownership, part Japanese manager, Ichiro, Jojima are all boys with Dice-K. Maybe the M’s are willing to move Felix for Dice-K and prospects, just to get Dice-K?
Japanese posting system is going to be revamped in the near future just like all other non-American born players so chances are the Red Sox are not going to be able to sign young players before NPB teams. Red Sox advantage might only be for another couple of years.
This is all just guesses.
You might be right about the Cubs, but they do have money, a spot and the desire to overpay for him.
Anyone who thinks that VMart is a long-term, full-time catcher is nuts.
He’s a guy who can catch a few games a full rotation at a fair detriment to his offense. Varitek’s position on the team isn’t in question. Lowell’s might be, but I kind of doubt it. If there’s anyone likely to be on the way out it’s Kotchman.
+1
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Aug 5, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
agree about VMart
but anybody who thinks that Varitek is a long-term, full-time catcher is also nuts.
If he comes back for 2010, that’ll be his last season.
Catchers are rarely useful for long after the age of 32. The Sox still need a young catcher.
FedEx, Wagner, Expo.
We’ve got’em ready for 2011.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
Off Topic
But if there is ever a start for Penny to really shine this is it with the bull pen shot and 4 games coming up in NY
Yep.
If he pulls this off, he’s the Pepsi Clutch Performer of the Month.
/brand whoring
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
The article misses other infield possibilities
Trading Lowell is a thought, though I think had Joe maddon, Tampa’s manager, been the manager of the Red Sox, he may have tried more creative ideas. We know our short stop is the weakest link in the infield. Youk has such good range at first, why wouldn’t that work at SS? After all, he knows how to turn double plays: it’s just from a different place. If we had that then we could have 1B Martinez, 2B Pedroia, SS Youk, 3B Lowell, and Varitek catching full time while Martinez subs Tek as well. When Martinez catches, then Youk goes to first and the developing Lowrie plays SS.
I do agree in principle with the article that the signing of Martinez raises questions about Tek’s future. Frankly, I don’t know anyone better to call a game than Tek.
Flag'd for sheer stupidity.
Youk will not be a SS. Ever.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
NO
Youk as great range at 1st and acceptable range at 3B. There is NO WAY he could ever play SS. More feasible would be Youk at 2nd and Pedroia at SS. Even that is stupid though. There is a reason Pedroia was taken from SS, lets keep it that way.
I wouldn't even play Youk at 2B.
It’s a lot easier for a middle IF to move to the corners than the opposite.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
Lowell as Backup??
How would Lowell feel about being our utility guy next year? He could play 3B and 1B. I don’t know how well he would feel about it though.
I think he knows that he's getting old.
If he can learn to play 1B well, than sure.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
Tek will exercise his option
He learned, one would think, from his delusion this past offseason. No one is going to give him more than $3M, so he’ll exercise his option.
Not so much his delusions...
….as Scott Boras’s greed and his silver tongue.
Man I love that tuna casserole.
Yeah, but Boras isn't an idiot
Even he knows no one is going to give Tek more money. And if he doesn’t exercise his option, he might not get any offers at all.
You are probably absolutely right...
But, like S.A. said, nothing is guaranteed with Boras. I wouldn’t put ANYTHING past that guy.
Man I love that tuna casserole.
*facepalm*
The above comment belongs directly after RSNexile’s “Yeah, but boras isn’t an idiot” comment.
I am teh thread-ruiner. :(
Man I love that tuna casserole.
Boras and Tek have two choices, exercise the option or not. Neither option is “evil” or even greedy. I find Boras hatred very boring and small-minded. The guy does his job and does it very well. It is not part of his job to appease RedSox fans.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
I have no intention of turning this into a "Boras thread"
I’ll simply say this:
Whenever Scott Boras’s name is attached to a negotiation, it is seemingly always accompanied with a lot of headaches, hold-outs, and bullshit. I’m a fan of baseball, not negotiations, and as such I find him tedious and his dollar-squeezing very self-serving…even over the best interest of his clients at times.
You call that doing his job very well if you wish, but for myself and other Sox fans it’s aggravating, which is why you hear about it so often.
Man I love that tuna casserole.
Another thing I think Boras does very well,
is turn himself into the bad guy. In this way he protects his client from the heavy criticism. Instead of people hating Varitek for being greedy, they think it is Boras who is terrible. In truth, Boras does what his clients ask of him. Whether fans like it or not, the guy does what he has to in order to maximize profits (for himself and his clients).
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
Boras does more harm than good
for every A-Rod or whomever, there are countless players he has abandoned. Ask Steven Strasburg how pitching in Japan helps him reach his goal to be a big league player, then ask the same question of Boras. I bet Strasburg has no idea what is going to happen when he does not sign with the Nationals. Ask Tek how last seasons negotiations went? I wonder if Boras still took a commission.
Good agent who has a bad rep = Drew Rosenhaus.
Bad agent who cares for nothing but getting paid and to change the system to benefit his career = Scott Boras.
Entertainment agents laugh at Boras bc they think he is genius and idolize his tactics. As an entertainment lawyer who deals weekly with the lowest scum of all profession, yes even lower than child pornographers, I take their glee for Scott Boras as enough evidence he is not on the up and up.
But lets not turn this into a Boras thread. LOL.
If he is so bad at his job,
why do guys keep hiring him?
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
We'll never know...
…because we aren’t turning this into a Boras tread. ;)
Man I love that tuna casserole.
Tek will be here either way
He has a player option as well.
but this actually increases the chances we can put Tek in a position to succeed and be healthy.
The set-up we have this year should also work next year. Split time between Vic and Tek at catcher, then rotate Victor into 1B and DH. What’s wrong with that?
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
VMart can catch Wake.
Nobody really catches the guy well to begin with. Give him a game at catcher every 5th game and he’ll live.
Meh.
One of Tek or VMart is going to catch him next year. Whichever one of them does will probably depend on either the apposing pitcher’s handedness or who’s been catching the most recently.
This, of course, assumes that Wake allows the team to activate his option again.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
Tek's future is sort of tied to Wake's future.
If Wake retires after this year, Tek and Victor can be an adequate catching tandem, with offense making up for their substantial defensive shortcomings. But if neither retires, I see us flipping Lowell for cupcakes (I’m not convinced his range will come back), putting Youk primarily at third, having Vmart/Kotchman at first base, and keeping a Kottaras-type to catch Wake.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
I think that it’s greedy to want more than we’re getting from Varitek at C. I’m very satisfied with him. Better the devil you know (inconsistent hitting) than the devil you don’t (a potential drop-off in pitching numbers). The question is how long he can keep it up. If Wakefield retires, then I would be very happy with Varitek at catcher with Martinez playing 1B and filling in at C.
This whole situation shows the risk in locking into someone for your DH without expecting him to play any defense. Having the DH open is a nice release valve in a situation like this. Easy to live with when Ortiz hit 40-50 homers, but a little more irritating given his current numbers.
Aside from the Papi thing (he's been a LOT better of late, so stop using numbers from April and May)...
Why are people assuming that Tek can’t catch Wake? Just because he doesn’t anymore? He doesn’t do it now because it would the equivalent of catching 8 starts every time through the rotation. If he’s not the full time starter, then he’d easily be able to catch Wake.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
Victor Matinez Will Dominate
Victor will dominate. He’s the best catcher in baseball and will be even better. As evidence check out his ranking on Rotolineup.com: http://rotolineup.com/2009_Catcher_Rankings.aspx
Ooh, a fantasy ranking list.
So we’re supposed to make our judgment based off a random assortment of primitive stats?
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
Please no more Tek
I don’t think Tek is even that good of a defensive catcher he can’t hit and he can’t throw runners out why do they need him. My biggest problem is that everyone thinks he calls a great game. I could call a great game and hit .230 in the majors why don’tt hey give me 5 million a year
Uhh, no you couldn't.
And Tek is one of the better hitting catchers in the league this year. He has been good.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
We need a catcher just as much now as before the Martinez trade
V-Mart is going to be a first baseman. His catching is atrocious, AND he doesn’t know the pitching staff as well as Tek. Perhaps Tek could be a catching coach, if there is such a thing, and teach V-Mart the ways of the staff. If Tek needs to take up a roster spot to be able to help Martinez, then we will probably have to drop Jason. Maybe he could be a bullpen catcher….
If we choose to keep Tek, then we will probably need to drop Lowell or Ortiz. We could always try Lowell at DH, or just take the better hitter of the two and make him the DH. Possibly carry the extra hitter if Tek doesn’t take up a roster spot. Youk can shift over to third and Martinez at first.
Now, the catching situation: Varitek and V-Mart are both terrible defensive catcher. But Varitek can handle the pitching staff better, whereas Martinez has a much better bat. So, intangibles or offense?
Well, I'll appreciate for you to keep my zingers outta your mouth!
David Ortiz Arias
Hey, the Bosox already have a first baseman in Arias……….oh that’s right he has no ability in the field, being just half a player.
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