Deal done: Billy Wagner accepts trade to Red Sox
by Randy Booth on Aug 25, 2009 1:59 PM EDT
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Print[Note by Randy Booth, 08/25/09 5:15 PM EDT ] According to the Herald via Rotoworld, Chris Carter is one of the PTBNL in the deal. Not a huge loss for the Sox, considering he's been blocked since the day he came to the organization in the Wily Mo Pena trade.
That didn't take long. Billy Wagner is now, officially, a Boston Red Sox:
In exchange for Wagner waiving his no-trade clause, the Red Sox agreed not to exercise his $8 million option for 2010. However, the Sox maintained the right to offer Wagner arbitration, rejecting another condition he had sought as part of the deal.
Wagner, less than 12 months removed from Tommy John surgery, was concerned about his health while pitching under the greater strain of a pennant race. But ultimately, he decided he wanted to possibly reach his first World Series.
"He had a sudden change of heart," Stringfellow said. "He's a competitor. He threw caution to the wind. He said, 'Let's do it and hope for the best."
Time to open up your arms, Jonathan Papelbon. You have another guy in the 'pen that also has closer-like stuff (what's that make now, like 5?).
I'm going to assume Wagner will be used as a set up guy primarily. Manny Delcarmen and Daniel Bard, most likely, will see less time in crucial innings.
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Well I am certainly glad someone in authority
sees how badly the immediate post all star version of the Sox needed big help. With Gonzales, Martinez and hopefuly this guy, we shore up some leaks. However, what about the starting pitching rotation?? We are now down to one or two reliable starters and that ‘’Spahn and Sain and pray for rain" won’t work in the modern scheules and modern game, IMO.
When was our bullpen a problem?
We are 5th in ERA in the Majors. The only problem I have seen has been with Tito’s use of the bullpen.
Okay, I'''ll bite.
The when are folks in authority going to deal with this very real starter issue because without that being dealt with, no playoffs this year, IMO.
by NG on Aug 25, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
You are going to hate me for saying it, because I know how you feel about him
WAKEFIELD!!!!!! Scheduled for tomorrow
I love Wake in the regular season but he just doesn’t have playoff stuff. Beckett (with an actual working curve) and Lester form a formidable 1-2 in the playoffs but we do need one more starter. Hopefully a fresh and healthy Dice-K can be that guy since we can’t rely on the young guys like Tazawa and Buch.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
I'll take Buch over Dice-K this year
Buch has proved more then Dice-K has in my opinion. Other then the last start he has been great as of late. I expect a bounce back next start.
You are not serious
While Buchholz has been excellent at times, he has also had a few bad outings. Dice-K is a vet, been in the playoffs numerous times and he was injured.
Dice-K will be the Sox 3rd starter in the playoffs.
Throwing a rookie in a game 3 v. the Angels, Tigers or White Sox is just giving in and saying we concede this game.
Dice-K will be back and if I was a betting man, which I am, I bet he steps up and really proves what he can do.
Why? Bc he is a competitor and he has pride. I just cannot believe a guy who succeeded in every arena, including the Red Sox, is going to just pack it in after making a mistake.
You guys should cheer for Dice-K, he is our best option in the 3 spot.
Nothing would please me more than success for Dice-K,
But I think Buchholz is the better bet – he’s not coming off injury, he’s got spectacular stuff, and he’s now able to throw strikes (unlike, say 2008). Like Wake, Dice-K is a real question mark.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
IMO both will be in the rotation in August.
the best rotation the Sox can put out there now, is Beckett, Lester, Wake, Dice-K and Buchholz. As for the playoffs, well see how everything works out.
I would say that Buchholz will be the 4th starter in the playoffs if Dice-K is old Dice-K.
Dice-K looked good in a warm up game in A ball, not saying we should have a ticker tape parade, but that means he is coming back soon.
Dice-K
I like Dice-K, I hope to see him turn things around…but I wouldn’t call him a veteran just yet…
I believe that Dice-K’s problem was his lack of spring training due to the WBC. They throw a lot of pitches over the spring and Dice-K didn’t do that. He came out during the regular season with no arm strength. He has spent the last couple of months doing spring training and building that arm back up and should return to what we expect (for better or worse) from him. He is much more of a “sure thing” than Buchh is. Buchh has shown flashes during this latest stretch (before his last game) but is still an unknown, with a health Dice-K you know you are going to get around 6 innings, 3BB, a couple hits, a couple ERs and a good number of Ks, certainly enough to keep us in the game with our re-found offense.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
I do like Tazawa
and think he could be a surprise first rate pitcher eventually. However, just in case that does not happen soon enough or even if it does, we still need a top-notch, reliable starter to join Beckett and Lester. That Halladay deal would have been nice, nice, nice!
by NG on Aug 25, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Or we could have traded half as much
and gotten Pujols instead!
The Jays were asking wayyyyyyyy too much for Halladay which is why he went exactly nowhere.
We made a very strong push for King Felix that got turned down and the Indians still robbed the Phils of most of their top 10 prospects even if they weren’t the ones the Jays wanted and the Phils didn’t even have a reliable #1 starter like we did. Beyond that there wasn’t much in the way of starting pitching that would have been a big upgrade over the rest of our rotation really.
It’s easy to say the front office needs to fix our rotation, that’s obvious but who do we get? What do we give up? Before the deadline there wasn’t anything that was a fit for us and now assuredly there is less available and how many of them are going to be better than Wake/Dice/Buch/Tazawa really?
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Wakefield is too old and unreliable
I would not be surprised still if when he trys to come back, he is handled quite easily and roughly by our opponents. I still believe, bet or not, that he will NOT finish out this season on the Sox active roster.
by NG on Aug 25, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
This entirely is based on what happens with his calf injury
I believe he was rushed back bc of the Red Sox situation and that he most likely is not 100%. His calf is still a problem, but unless everyone bunts to the 1st base side, I doubt this injury will have much effect on his pitching.
I dont know if I agree with you on the playoffs though, he is valuable in certain situations.
You can't deal with that situation...
during the waiver period. Especially if you are as high as we are on the waiver list . Its unrealistic. They Sox will have to dance with the ones that brought them and hope its enough.
Oh, and no to pick a fight but of course thats “IMO.” Do you typically express the opinions of others?
We are not normal. We are legends.
by NittanyAlum02 on Aug 25, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not in love with the move, but I don't think that it's a bad one either.
If Wagner signs elsewhere next year, do we get draft picks?
DH Lowell.
If we offer him arbitration
and he doesn’t accept it (he won’t) then yes we should get 2 draft picks from whoever does sign him.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
I think it's a good move - for the Sox and Wagner.
Although Wagner will find it’s a lot harder throwing in the AL than the NL. Just ask Smoltz.
Any move..
that limits the use of Manny Delcarmen has to be a step in the right direction. While Wagner is a royal pain in the ass he’s only here for 2 1/2 months. Another arm in the pen with quality stuff for two prospects we most likely overvalued in the first place is a no brainer. Especially when your starting pitchers other than Lester and Beckett feel as though 5 innings is a quality start.
We are not normal. We are legends.
Olney says the Sox sent nobody of any importance to the Mets
So could the Red Sox get 2 picks off of this and just pay the 3million? Not bad for a rental I guess. Plus if can actually get lefties out, seems ok to me.
I'm psyched.
Anyone who can teach themselves to pitch left-handed because they broke their right arm in college impresses me.
So, now that they have Wagner...
…do they put Penny BACK on the waiver wire? Or maybe they don’t need to open up a spot, depending on who they actually traded.
And do we believe the buzz that Wagner is a clubhouse cancer? Or will Papelbon bring out the worst in the guy?
Well if they do put him back on they cannot pull him back (I think, once again, baseball is real screwy with personnel moves) so he would be gone (not exactly a bad thing but we really won’t have much control over the matter). We probably will have to open a spot, they say it’s two AA guys going who aren’t top prospects and not very likely to be on the roster.
I believe that Wagner has character issues but he will probably play nice. Though maybe at the end of the season when Lester completes a no-hitter to close out the world series they can have a fist fight in the bullpen to determine who Theo would have called in case of a save situation. (In an ideal world of course).
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
They can't put him on waivers again
All they can do is DFA him.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Aug 25, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I worry
that no one will want to sign Wagner because they will have to give up 2 high draft picks.
That’s my concern, too. And Wagner knows that. BUT that won’t be a huge problem if he pitches lights out. So basically, he pitches amazing, the Sox benefit, Wagner benefits — everyone is happy.
But if he sucks, Wagner is screwed, but not the Sox — as much, at least.
pretty nice incentive
to pitch well here huh? “Pitch well rest of the year, get signed. Pitch like crap, never play again.”
Lots of advantages here...
1 – We get Wagner to throw out there for the stretch run.
2 – We get rid of two stiffs clogging up our minor league system.
3 – We get two new prospects to replace them.
And oh, by the way, this isn’t a Smoltz/Gagne signing. Wagner has already shown good stuff at 96 MPH. It’s not a big guess if he’s still got the talent. Even if he bombs after a few tries, we don’t throw him out there in close games after that. It’s not much of a gamble.
while I don't disagree
that there are advantages, but:
1-Wagner has stated in public that he does not want to pitch in high leverage situations.
2-We may get no picks back (actually any team that gave up good picks to sign a nearly 40 year old closer with arm history for a big contract would be a bit crazy).
3-Eric Gagne for Texas before coming to the Sox:33.1 innings, 29Ks, 2.16 ERA, 1.05 WHIP. Those #s look ok to me-don’t be so sure Wagner is not Gagne. I only hope he des not get the chance to prove it and is a piece of bullpen without partial closer expectations.
+1
I was just writing about Gagne, you covered it for me.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
+2
I’m not expecting big things from Wagner. I’m also curious to see what we give up for him (2 Double-A prospects is what I heard).
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Aug 25, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Gagne
said before he joined the Sox that he did not want to be an eighth-inning pitcher. Closers have a mentality all to themselves and only the best of relievers can handle the pressure. When put into the setup role, Gagne eased up mentally (part of his problem) and went into the tank, never to recover.
Wagner just said the same thing – “I don’t want to end my career as a setup man.” I hope he doesn’t do the same as fat man Gagne. Let’s hope Theo doesn’t make the same mistake twice.
Be warned: Wagner is either great or terrible, no in-between. I saw him a number of times with the Mets. He IS exciting, but he’s very inconsistent. It will be interesting to see what he does.
by ccthemovieman on Aug 25, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
One big differnence
Gagne was a fat man.
I just think Wagner’s role on this team is not even close to what the Red Sox wanted from Gagne. Francona putting Wagner in over MDC seems crazy. Maybe ill be wrong, but right now Wagner and Saito are the same guy.
There are a lot of teams looking for closers next season. The Cubs are just dumb enough to sign him.
A power-throwing lefty is always gonna be a unique role.
And it’s not like MDC has exactly lit the world on fire of late.
by Ben Buchanan on Aug 25, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I am a bit worried about him turning into Gagne
Just because he has never pitched in the AL.. Scares a bit.
I didn't like the old one very much. I didn't see the ball there very well. - Julio Lugo on the old Yankees Stadium.
Hopefully he doesn't act like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3FmLIeRa0I
But atleast if he does, we know hes a Pats fan
I didn't like the old one very much. I didn't see the ball there very well. - Julio Lugo on the old Yankees Stadium.
Just bizzare.
Probably coming
Maybe coming
Not coming
Maybe coming
Coming
Oh well, we got what we needed to get: the arbitration deal.
A good move with some downside
A very intriguing move for a few reasons:
This season – Is he healthy enough to be effective? How will he pitch in Fenway?
Next season – Sox agreed not to pick up the option. Does he agree to not accept arbitration? If not, do the Sox get stuck with a bigger bill if the free agency market is less than friendly? If he flourishes in Beantown and the front office decides to trade Papelbon (ex: in a Hernandez or Gonzalez deal), would he be open to the Sox picking up his ’10 option?
Other various thoughts:
- It appears that Chris Carter is one of the players to be named later. The other is described as a lesser player so it doesn’t look like they will be giving up much.
- I’m actually intrigued by the thought of Penny in the pen. I remember his start in the All Star game a few years ago and remember him blowing guys away when he didn’t have to pace himself. A playoff pen of Paps, Wagner, Ramirez, Ohkajima, MDC, Bard, Saito and Penny could be devastating.
How could anybody not be happy with a deal
that has only upside and comes with draft pick? Do you really care about the owners’ 3 million?
This deal does have downside. If he doesn’t accept arbitration but doesn’t get signed (teams not wanting to lose a first round pick) the Sox get nothing. He could accept arbitration and be paid over $10M (note: include $1M buyout) when he could have been brought back for $8M. He could stink in Boston (see Gagne).
HOWEVER, I do like this deal. It looks like they are not giving up much in terms of prospects, he should help and net picks.
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