Red Sox trade for Reds' shortstop Alex Gonzalez
by Randy Booth on Aug 14, 2009 1:29 PM EDT
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Print[Note by Randy Booth, 08/14/09 2:27 PM EDT ] According to WBZ, the Sox trade Kris Negron to the Reds for Gonzalez.
The Red Sox have completed a trade with the Cincinnati Reds, bringing shortstop Alex Gonzalez back to Boston.
Gonzalez is not expected to join the team until tomorrow in Texas. The most likely move would involve the Sox releasing infielder Chris Woodward to make room for Gonzalez on the roster.
Gonzalez, as Red Sox fans will recall, is an excellent defensive player who should sure up the team's defensive issues on the left side of the infield. His contract calls for a $6 million club option next season, meaning the Sox will have the right to retain to his services.
I love it and I don't even care who the Sox give up for him (OK, maybe a little bit). But Gonzalez is a strong defender that will sure up the left side of the infield. I don't care if he's hitting .210 -- I just want his glove.
I'm going out to buy my Alex Gonzalez shirt right now since I missed my opportunity in '06.
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1st
place in fielding percentage for SS from this point on.
Last in every offensive category but he probably makes everyone better so he’ll save more runs then he doesn’t produce. Win.
Ian Browne aspires to be like me.
Beat him to it
2.0 UZR, 4.0 UZR/150
His best season, ironically, was in 2006 with the Sox: 11.8 UZR, 16.9 UZR/150. Maybe we’ll see similar defense now that he’s back…
He has declined every year since.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Aug 14, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
$5.375M for this year, so pro-rated that will be like $1 or $2M plus the $500K buyout for next year. Not too bad.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
We received 1.1 million too.
So money wasn’t an issue.
by Ben Buchanan on Aug 14, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
My bad.
Although I can guarantee you that he doesn’t get bought out, just because it’s the stupid kinda move that we’d make.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
Dude,
since when has Theo made stupid moves? He’s made mistakes, yes. But handing Alex Gonzalez $6M does not seem like one that he would make, especially considering that we would not commit to paying him this year.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
Like this move. GJ, Theo!
Now go get David Wright!
Lowell should be enough – the Mets would have to throw in some prospects too. Get it done, Theo! [/delusional trade proposals]
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
Hmm...
Maybe this is to allow Jed to be the 3B when he comes back? Moves Youk to 1B, Lowell to DH.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
Only if Jed starts to hit.
Otherwise, I want kotch in the lineup.
by BoldandBrash on Aug 14, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd actually rather keep Jed at SS and Youk at 3B.
Would cost us runs to play Gonzo, hadn’t done the math before.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
Don't like it
Why not go after a player who has a little better bat? Isn’t that our biggest problem right now? We can’t give the pitchers any run support. J.J. Hardy would have been a better pickup. He has a better bat, he’s younger and are about the same in the field.
by boondock_saint812 on Aug 14, 2009 1:55 PM EDT reply actions
He's also not on waivers
And even if he WAS put on waivers, he wouldn’t make it all the way down to us. No, he’s going to be traded in the offseason.
by South Coast Ghost on Aug 14, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup.
A lot more. The guy has been the worst of his career this year and is still a league average SS. FG’s had an article about him today. Dave Cameron thinks the Brewers sent him down in order to put off his free agency one more year.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
I hate this move
If they gave up more than a bag of balls for this stiff, the Sox got ripped off. Gonzo is a truly awful hitter. He is a sure-handed SS with very limited range. In 270 PA this year, Gonzo is hitting .210 AVG/.258 OBP/.296 SLG (.554 OPS/.238 wOBA). Those are truly awful numbers. Gonzo is worth -0.7 WAR because his decent defense can’t outweigh his putrid offense. His defense has declined every year. So far this season, he has a 2.0 UZR/4.0 UZR150.
I simply can’t understand this move. First off, Gonzo makes $6 million this year. Secondly, he is significantly worse than our current option at SS: Nicek Green. Green is better offensively (.233 AVG/.298 OBP/.374 SLG/.672 OPS/.289 wOBA) and defensively (4.5 UZR/8.0 UZR 150). Why exchange Gonzo, a SS, for Woodward, who plays every position? The latter is a better fit. The best option at SS, Jed Lowrie, should be back soon. Even with a bum wrist, Lowrie is a Hall of Famer compared to Gonzalez.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Aug 14, 2009 1:57 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd for the strong take.
But, his salary is only $5.375M this year and prorated that is only $1.6M plus the $500K buyout, we only will pay $2.1M. The guy has been terrible offensively this year, but he has not been as bad in the past. He has been worth consistently 1-2 WAR over his career and there is not much reason to think he won’t produce at that pace for the rest of this season.
Really, its a non-move. It will not impact our season significantly at all other than it allows us to not rely on Woodward, who has not logged significant time at SS since 2004, at SS when the season is on the line. I expect that we will continue to start Green and when (if) Lowrie gets healthy, we will play Jed.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
I don't know anymore. I just don't know.
But I do like E-Coli’s expected MFY/Angry Blogger/Mental Patient rant.
"Hating the New York Yankees is as American as apple pie, unwed mothers and cheating on your income tax." -- Mike Royko
He's no better than Woodward, and costs a whole lot more (unless CIN will pay his '09 salary)
What a waste. And we don’t even know what we had to give up to get him.
Thank you, Theo! (says this Reds fan)
Ummmm…no.
This isn’t the same Alex Gonzalez you guys may remember. I’m a Reds fan, and you aren’t going to like this Gonzo.
Besides the fact that he is probably the worst hitter in the majors, he is also below average defensively now. The injuries have KILLED his lateral movement.
Wait until you see balls rolling past him left and right because his legs look like they are stuck in cement. Reds pitchers were frustrated all year because he has no lateral movement anymore. NONE.
He’s a decent enough guy, his hands are still fairly decent, and he’s trying the best he can. He just isn’t a major league player anymore. The injuries have finished him.
I’m so glad he’s gone I could almost scream.
by Jimmy James Reds on Aug 14, 2009 2:13 PM EDT reply actions
Theo's desparate.
That is what this is sounding like.
"Hating the New York Yankees is as American as apple pie, unwed mothers and cheating on your income tax." -- Mike Royko
by sox-inda-south on Aug 14, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
He is not the worst hitter in the major leagues
Of course, pitchers don’t hit in the AL…
I guess he's better than Woodward
Nick green built his numbers in the first two months of the season. He’s been as bad as Alex has recently. That’s scary. So now we get to decide whether we want to see a ball rolling past one SS or having the other SS get to the ball but throw it into the stands.
I really didn’t want Guzman, but he’s looking pretty good at this point.
by South Coast Ghost on Aug 14, 2009 2:21 PM EDT reply actions
Woodward sucks
But he’s versatile. He plays almost every position. Gonzo sucks and only plays SS.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Aug 14, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
How big of a factor would Woodward’s versatility really be, though? I mean, versatility is nice, but when it comes to the end of the day, how big of a factor is it in a win?
He's pretty much the definition of a replacement-level player.
And he’s been worth more WAR than Gonzo this year.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
Yup
That about sums it up.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Aug 14, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
The fact is the Red Sox solution to their SS problem is just a bunch of puzzle pieces. The Red Sox won’t — and can’t — acquire a shortstop that is lighting the world on fire. That’s just not available after July 31.
So what Theo & Co. have to hope for is that a combination of Jed Lowrie/Nick Green/Alex Gonzalez can get the job done. Because there really is NOTHING better they can do at this point.
by Randy Booth on Aug 14, 2009 2:24 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Except they just took a puzzle piece that is obviously broken.
And are going to pay for it too.
So, basically, my reaction: JED!!!! PLEASE COME BACK SOON!!!
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
Seriously
What the hell has Jed done that everyone is begging for? He’s done nothing as a Major Leaguer — except spend a record amount of time on the disabled list.
We can’t just keep sitting back and waiting for Jed to come back just for him to go back on the disabled list…
by Randy Booth on Aug 14, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Jed with one wrist is better than Gonzo
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Aug 14, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, because he's had just over 360 PA's.
No where near large enough sample size to draw any conclusions from. Plus, you’re using batting average, which, as I said below, doesn’t include two of the most important tools. Plus-plus, .237 ain’t horrible for a SS with a broken wrist – it’s pretty damn good, in fact.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
Given that he was injured in May of last year
Before his July call-up, we have essentially no idea what Lowrie is capable of offensively.
But we know he won't be worse than what he showed with a broken wrist.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
But we still haven't seen him to do ANYTHING
So everyone is waiting for him to finally get healthy and produce — but who the hell knows when that will happen?
Next year probably will be telling.
If you have a chance to pick up J.J. Hardy for a decent price this offseason, do you do it knowing it would eat into Lowrie’s playing time?
Or do you go into the season confident with Lowrie as your starter and whoever else as the back-up?
by South Coast Ghost on Aug 14, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I think if Lowrie doesn’t do anything the rest of the season, Theo goes out to try and grab a legitimate starter, because it’s too hard saying Lowrie is our SS when he’s on the shelf all the time.
We should call him Jed? Lowrie? because he’s such a mystery.
Yup.
At some point we all have to stop waiting for Jed Lowrie and move on.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
It's been 1 season since he started having troubles.
At some point had better be at least another season away.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
He managed to be an average SS last year with a broken wrist.
That’s a hell of a something.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
Jed with no limbs is better than Gonzo.
Jed got hurt ONCE. The injury wasn’t fixed with surgery until the beginning of this season, and when he came back, he lost feeling in his fingers due to some nerve issues.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
The point is, Jed has done nothing as a major leaguer — hurt or not hurt. Yeah, .258 isn’t bad last season with a messed up wrist, but still, we don’t know what he can really do because we’ve never seen it at the big league level.
Why do you keep using BA?
Doesn’t account for plate discipline or power, which are two very important skills, and two things Jed happens to have. Look at how he managed to keep an average wOBA with a broken wrist:
And then the team told him not to have surgery, and it didn’t heal right, forcing him to miss regular season time to recover.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
But he still hasn’t been good. That’s the bottom line to all of this.
To end this convo, I like Jed, I think he could be a good player, we just haven’t seen him really do anything yet. And can he stay healthy long enough to show us what he can really do?
I hope so, but it’s scary to think how much time he’s already spent on the DL.
He was only injured ONCE.
You can’t blame him for what the organization told him to do.
And he’s been VERY good for a shortstop callup with an injured wrist. His minor league numbers project to easily be one of the better offensive SS in the game.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
I agree with both of you.
Jed has shown that he is probably a solid major league SS, as a hitter and a fielder. But he has been constantly injured (even if it is just once, it has been a long time). At some point the Sox have to stop waiting for the guy to be healthy and make other plans. But those plans sure as hell should not involve Alex GOnzalez as anything other than a bench player.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
Like I said, it wasn't his fault that he wasn't allowed to have surgery earlier.
And we don’t know if the nerve thing is new or related to the wrist, but it’s not supposed to have any impact.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
I agree with all of that.
But how long do you wait for the kid? We need a real SS next season. If Jed does not show that he can stay healthy and productive for at least a month or so, then I think we have to start going in another direction. A year of waiting for someone to get healthy, especially when it is far from clear that Jed is going to succeed at this level, is just too much. Give him a shot, but we cannot keep saying “Oh, we have Jed Lowrie, we’ll be fine” when he never plays.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
He's not injury prone.
And we wouldn’t be waiting on him to get healthy if the team had just let him have surgery at the end of last season.
Sign another backup SS for next season, yes. But pay for a huge name just because Jed struggles a little at the end of this season? Not a smart move, IMO.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
This was my thought process coming into this season.
But I just can’t have two straight years of waiting for the same SS to show up and play. I’m not saying we should give up on the kid, but we need another legitimate plan (i.e. a non-Nick Green solution).
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
How do you figure "two straight years"?
He was an average SS last year while playing through a major injury.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
But Gonzo just came off the DL, too
Limited range, very poor bat. It’s really no better than Woodward.
Apparently the cost is Kris Negron
In addition to the Reds’ salary dump (~$2MM if it doesn’t work out).
Negron report via SoxProspects
Scouting Report: Speedy infielder plays 2B, SS, 3B, and all three OF positions. Top notch glove with excellent range. At the plate, Negron gets on base at an okay clip, but the hits just aren’t there enough. He has a good eye at the plate but still hacks on pitches out of the zone on occasion. Exceptionally fast down the line to first, and quick on the basepaths. Negron would be a prototypical leadoff hitter if he could make more contact.
Would've rather have kept him, to be honest.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
A utility guy with contact issues?
Meh, he was begging to be a throw-in for some deal, but I’m surprised we actually gave up anything except salary relief.
by South Coast Ghost on Aug 14, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, but a great glove at multiple positions and decent OBP are great assets.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
I guess?
I mean, he was 23 in High-A with a .338 OBP and a .347 SLG. He always struck me as a career minor leaguer or someone the Pirates would use as their utility guy. He does have some speed to his game, he could probably be a good pinch runner.
by South Coast Ghost on Aug 14, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
Negron is just another middle infielder in the Sox system. He’s a dime a dozen. There are plenty more guys that are better than Negron right now, younger and have a higher ceiling.
He's like a better Gil Velazquez!
But seriously, everything I’ve read indicated he’s a great teammate, a clubhouse guy, very mature for his age, and very levelheaded. Good luck to you in Cincy Kris!
by South Coast Ghost on Aug 14, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
We got money back for him, so there's that.
Didn’t realize he was that old for his level – my bad.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
I think that just offsets Gonzo's remaining money
He’s due a prorated $5.4 million or so.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Aug 14, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Another opinion
Ari Collins (Boston, MA)
So, apparently the BoSox just got Alex Gonzalez. Again. Does he play over Nick Green and Chris Woodward? Should he?
Keith Law (2:52 PM)
Yes, and I’m leaning towards no.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
But KLaw disagreed with us about the Youk/Porcello fight!
I’m so conflicted!
by South Coast Ghost on Aug 14, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Charles (D.C.)
Do you agree with this statement: (1) Porcello did not intentionally throw at Youkilis, but (2) Porcello won the wrestling match that ensued?
Keith Law (2:34 PM)
(1) Yes, although that’s completely debatable. (2) Yes, and that is not debatable.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Aug 14, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
He hit him in the back with a two seam fastball that moved no different than an average two seamer.
He went after the previous batter he had faced (which is stupid in and of itself, because he had no reason to). Youk’s always the target of chin music, because he crowds the plate and is one of the best batters on the team. Sure seamed intentional to me.
I will agree that Porcello “won” the match, but he still placed himself at risk of injuring his arm by not breaking away from Youk after hip-tossing him. This ain’t the UFC, kid.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
I object to the idea...
…that one can win a fight when their first action is to flee towards first base
Rock me, sexy Jesus...
by nuthinboutnuthin on Aug 14, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Wouldn't say he fled.
He got off the mound, which is probably smart, considering you don’t want to roll an ankle or something stupid. He also forced Youk to change directions rather abruptly and was able to take advantage of his momentum.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
A proven solid glove at short.
Nothing bad about that. Kris Negron was yet another “hanger on” prospect to begin with, so cool.
He's worse than he use to be though.
None of his UZR is coming from range – it’s all double play and not making errors, which means he’s basically hands and that’s it. Wouldn’t be a bad second basemen, but as a shortstop? He doesn’t have the range to make up for Lowell/Youk at 3B.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
Which si still much better than Woodward.
by Ben Buchanan on Aug 14, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Just saying, not much of an upgrade.
Not that Woodward was an upgrade himself.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
how many different people have worn...
…a Red Sox jersey this year? Have we entered triple-digits yet?
THAT'S the money you could be saving with Geico
I'd assume we're past to half a million...
Oh wait, you meant players… IDK, but I’d go with close to 50, not counting ST.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
Underrated karmic move...
…driving the stake into the heart of the Julio Lugo Era/Error. Returns us to the status quo ante, shortstop-wise…
Rock me, sexy Jesus...
by nuthinboutnuthin on Aug 15, 2009 2:34 AM EDT reply actions
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