Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Auto Racer Jeffrey Earnhardt Excited to Make MMA Debut

Snapshots: Victor Martinez and Casey Kotchman this season

While we still have 20 minutes left to the deadline and some think the Sox are prepped for something bigger, here's a look at who the Sox have acquired all ready today, Victor Martinez and Casey Kotchman:


G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG
2009 - Victor Martinez 99 377 56 107 21 1 15 67 51 51 0 0 .284 .368 .464

Solid numbers, but he has really fell off lately. He's not the best defensive catcher, but he gives the Sox some versatility between catcher and first base. The power is a good sight, but he's not going to play every day, either.


G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG
2009 - Casey Kotchman 87 298 28 84 20 0 6 41 32 28 0 0 .282 .354 .409

Another first baseman, Kotchman brings a great glove to first base. He'll be a backup, of course. He's only 26 and is pretty cheap. The Sox have had their eye on Kotchman for awhile.

Comment 99 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

VMart

Might get back to raking with a reduced catching load.

by Ben Buchanan on Jul 31, 2009 3:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Not to mention some protection in the lineup.

For all things Boston College please visit my blog: Towers on the Heights

by beantownkid10 on Jul 31, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

You gotta hope that this was going through Theo’s mind when he made the deal

Fehr is fair, but I like Laich

by amkcaps on Jul 31, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

.966 OPS as a first baseman.

That and 2 draft picks. I’m gonna have to make a whole story about that. 2 DRAFT PICKS

by Ben Buchanan on Jul 31, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kind of...

Where’s he fit next year? Bye-bye Lowell?

by Randy Booth on Jul 31, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Same as this year.

If we drop Kottaras, then each of Lowell, Youk, Papi, Martinez, and Varitek can play 4-out-of-every-5 games.

by Ben Buchanan on Jul 31, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep.

I see Tek’s playing time taking a big hit over the next 16 months.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Jul 31, 2009 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Picks are worth more this year than next, yeah.

"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw

by BTLove on Jul 31, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Isn't 2011...

…supposed to be the talent motherlode year, though?

Rock me, sexy Jesus...

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jul 31, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

But, no BRYCE HARPER!?!?!

Overrated, arrogant MFY fan.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Jul 31, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't get the Kotchman trade

Couldn’t we have gotten some other help at a different position? It’s not a bad pickup, but now we’ve got too many 1B’s. Is Kotchman’s stay in Boston going to shorter than LaRouche’s? Got 3 minutes….

Introducing the new 2008 Big 12 Football Champions: OU, UT*, TT*, and MU*!
Now Introducing the new 2009 Big 12 Baseball Tournament Champions: UT, KSU*, BU*, and MU*!

by mystman995 on Jul 31, 2009 3:57 PM EDT reply actions  

He's only got a 1-year contract

with two more years left of arbitration.

Introducing the new 2008 Big 12 Football Champions: OU, UT*, TT*, and MU*!
Now Introducing the new 2009 Big 12 Baseball Tournament Champions: UT, KSU*, BU*, and MU*!

by mystman995 on Jul 31, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

And damn

I didn’t realize the Braves had a payroll of $97 million.

Introducing the new 2008 Big 12 Football Champions: OU, UT*, TT*, and MU*!
Now Introducing the new 2009 Big 12 Baseball Tournament Champions: UT, KSU*, BU*, and MU*!

by mystman995 on Jul 31, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well ya had too many before then too...

Kotchman and LaRoche are about equal in total ability but Kotchman is under team control for 2 years longer and is younger.

Getting younger and cheaper is never a bad thing.

by CKremer on Jul 31, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

And he'd be a better glove...

Used for a defensive replacement = MUCH more value than LaRoche’s bat.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Jul 31, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm waiting for the league to announce the new tie-breaker

If two teams have the same record at the end of the season, the team with the most corner IF wins.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jul 31, 2009 4:13 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm curious:

Could the Sox use Kotchman for a A-Gon trade, considering they wanted a 1B?…

Ahh, pipe dream I guess :-/

by Randy Booth on Jul 31, 2009 4:15 PM EDT reply actions  

If we wanted to get rid of V-Mart right away, yes.

Well, I'll appreciate for you to keep my zingers outta your mouth!

by BoSox415 on Jul 31, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd trade Martinez + Kotchman for Gonzalez in a heartbeat.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Jul 31, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like Kotchman

He could be Youk-lite in a few years’ time. He’s only 26 and his career numbers have been held back by a number of freak injuries. This is an excellent pick up for only LaRoche. Kotchman will primarily be a back-up for the rest of the season, but he fields well and hits a hell of a lot better than Kotsay. I expect he’ll be in the Sox’ long term plans.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Jul 31, 2009 4:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Lars Anderson says "Hello"

"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.

by 0157H7 on Jul 31, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Long term these days = 2-3 years, not 6.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Jul 31, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Jul 31, 2009 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

And I say, "DH"

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Jul 31, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Martinez, Kotchman Acquition.

I think getting Martinez was the Red Sox’s primary goal with getting Gonsalves a close second. The asking price for Holiday was way beyond any teams reach ! As for getting Kotchman, I think this was a money saving gesture. The difference in salaries was in the millions between Laroche and Kotchman . Laroche may be the better player but saving a few million was clearly an off set . Besides , both players would be part timer players anyway ! I think getting Martinez and Kotchman will improve the Red Sox chances of winning the American League Wild Card but not a Division Championship.! SHUCKS !

by jessue on Jul 31, 2009 4:33 PM EDT reply actions  

The Red Sox sent money to Atlanta, so both teams are paying the same as what they would have if the trade was not made. Kotchman is better at putting the bat on the ball than LaRoche, and has better on-base skills, so that plays better as a bench player. LaRoche needs to play for a team to get his value, power. Kotchman is also better at first base, thus allowing late inning substitutions that will get Lowell off the field.

Controlling Kotchman with arbitration for two more years is also something the Red Sox value very, very highly.

by soxstats on Jul 31, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Jul 31, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gonsalves

Is that something you rub on your nether regions when you have an itch?

Rock me, sexy Jesus...

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jul 31, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not reallly happy about losing masterson, i wouldv rather stick to our current aging catcher situation, and keep a really promising arm.

by spinz on Jul 31, 2009 4:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Why is everyone so high on Masterson?

He’s not going to be a permanent starter.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Jul 31, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

And he has wild streaks.

And he’s got weird mechanics.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Aug 1, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not to keep bashing it...

But color me unimpressed. I had more faith in the old rotation of only 3 corner IFs. Now everyone is just going to be pissed off from constant position changes and unwanted days off. Odd that last years trade deadline focused solely on chemistry but this one seems to completely ignore it

by BigRedDog42 on Jul 31, 2009 5:33 PM EDT reply actions  

The key to failure is trying to please everyone; especially the old, breaking down ones that are hurting your team. This does not affect the core of our team that will need to perform in order to get the the postseason and have a shot at another title.

by soxstats on Jul 31, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who was hurting the team recently?

Bay? Drew? Youk? Certainly not Ortiz and Lowell who have been two of the best hitters on the team the last month. They are the two being pushed out by this.

by BigRedDog42 on Jul 31, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Being the best hitters on the Red Sox over the last month does not say much of anything at all. Also, a player’s batting is only part of the story of their value to a team. Lowell has played in 9 games in the last 30 days, he is hitting, that has not been his problem, his defense has been atrocious all season and has not improved since coming off the DL. Ortiz has a .500 slugging over the last 30 days, super, his OBP in that time is .298, sapping just about all the value of the power he has brought, OBP being about 70% more important than SLG.

The players you named, Bay, Drew, Youk, ect. all need to hit better for us to advance. Martinez will be a great addition to that group while taking some of the periphery players off the field.

by soxstats on Jul 31, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it will also give better protection to Papi or whomever is in the 3 or 4 spot

with Martinez in the line up…

Martinez is a franchise player. I don’t know why the Indians felt they had to give him up for Masterson and two prospects.

by superferret on Jul 31, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm thinking I'm going to be agreeing with almost you say.

Odd that Papi’s wOBA is still increasing even though his OBP is struggling:

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Jul 31, 2009 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s better to have SLG without OBP than having neither like he did earlier in the year. The last two days have been encouraging, maybe he is going to blow off some steam by destroying some AL pitching for a while.

by soxstats on Aug 1, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

True.

I guess he really had nowhere to go but up. And it does appear that he’s dropped off a little more recently.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Aug 1, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

I like the Deals

should help the offense and this doesn’t even remotely effect the teams pitching or future.

Baseball is God's sport! All Truth Goes Through Three Stages 1.It is ridiculed 2.It is violently opposed 3.Finally, it is accepted as self-evident. kinesiologist
Baseball’s biggest busts Andy Marte
1 All Star for 3 bullpen arms. Awful

# # 100 Oppie Says:
July 31st, 2009 at 4:40 pm

I’m DONE!!! I don’t think words can express my anger, I’m officially done with this team. They traded one of the few guys I still liked and one of the few guys that even cared about team anymore. I thank God that I just moved to N.C. so I don’t have to watch the Indians b/c I would rather watch a 24 hour marathon of Jon & Kate Plus 8 than watch this pathetic excuse for a team.

We really have turned into the team from Major League except our owner isn’t a hot cougar, it’s an old, wrinkly man who has similar characteristics to Ebeneezer Scrooge.

by E5 on Jul 31, 2009 5:43 PM EDT reply actions  

HOLY COW, that's a long sig.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Jul 31, 2009 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

A lot of changes in our lineup from here on out...

A little more Youk at 3B,
Kotch coming in as a 1B defensive replacement for V-Mart (or Lowell when Youk switches to 3B for better defense),
Less Kottaras except for Wake and as a pinch runner for the other 2 Cs,
A little less Lowell at 3B, and maybe…
Lowell platooning with Papi at DH?

by dsharp on Jul 31, 2009 6:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Ya.

Unless we go to 11 pitchers, a hitter has got to go. Though we could probably get away with 11 pitchers and three catchers for a little while at least.

Though I’m not crazy about our outfield depth.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Jul 31, 2009 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe we should DL Drew for 15 days to give him some rest...

And see who we should bring up for OF depth in September during that time.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Jul 31, 2009 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

True, but

September 1st roster expansions are less than a month away. So would we presumably rest Wake that long, or would we switch Kotch and Kott on the Wakefield start dates – of which there would be like 3…

Rock me, sexy Jesus...

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jul 31, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or have VMart catch Wake...

with Tek still catching the rest? Then have VMart play 1B, DH, where ever the rest of the time.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Jul 31, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Putting your second catcher at DH is risky.

You cannot move that guy from DH to catcher during the game, so Tek would have no real backup.

"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw

by BTLove on Aug 1, 2009 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sucks that we couldn't swap them back and forth.

And we could, but that would require the pitcher batting. If it’s going to be done late in the game, that wouldn’t be too much of an issue, providing Tito doesn’t mess up the switches.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Aug 1, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dave @ Fangraphs thinks V-Mart is a great fit

“Martinez can catch when Varitek isn’t, can play first when Lowell needs a day off, or can DH when Francona wants to give David Ortiz a breather. By adding Martinez to the C/1B/DH rotation, the Red Sox can essentially platoon Ortiz/Lowell/Varitek, giving them a constant platoon advantage and keeping the older legs fresh. Versatility and depth are often very useful in a playoff series, and the Red Sox now have that in spades.”

by CKremer on Jul 31, 2009 6:32 PM EDT reply actions  

+1

Figure 5 days in 5 for Youk, 4 days in 5 for Ortiz, V-Mart (1 at catcher), and 3 days for Lowell and Tek, 1 day for Kott (Knuckle-Day) – mix in Kotch to give Youk a day off. Easy peasy.

Rock me, sexy Jesus...

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jul 31, 2009 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Again, I do think that VMart will probably take Kott's starts...

which would push him back down to AAA. Oddly, this creates a jam at catcher in the minors, right?

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Jul 31, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do we know that VMart can catch the knuckler?

Just flashing back to Josh Bard v.1.0 and all the passed balls…

Rock me, sexy Jesus...

by nuthinboutnuthin on Aug 1, 2009 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

The core needs to hit

That is just as true now as it was before the trade. He won’t be able to carry the offense the way Adrian Gonzalez might’ve but no matter where he plays, we won’t finish better than 3rd in the division without Bay, Youk, and Drew showing up.

by BigRedDog42 on Jul 31, 2009 6:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Which they should.

Kinda hard for them all to NOT hit for the rest of the season.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Jul 31, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

So I was skimming the comments over at letsgotribe.com and those guys are pretty torn up. I mean, they were really, really attached to the guy. The way we were with Tek before he started to suck. Or Nomar before he was all pissed about not being paid like Jeter. Basically the way we all felt about Papi a few days ago (for the record, I still love the guy and I think a lot of Sox fans feel the same way).

Now, I was never really in favor of getting Victor. He is getting old and can’t really play much catcher anymore. And it isn’t clear that he is a significantly better hitter than Andy Laroche. But there has to be some reason that these fans all claim to be crying today. And we didn’t really give up anything that I value (seriously, do people really think Masterson will be able to start? given the way lefties hit the guy, I really doubt it). So I’m on-board, as long as he snaps out of the two month slump.

Wierd for Victor that he goes from being a franchise player, to a role player. He’ll obviously play most days, but he’ll be rotated around a bunch; something you would not think would happen with this kind of talent.

"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw

by BTLove on Aug 1, 2009 2:46 AM EDT reply actions  

Wierd for Victor that he goes from being a franchise player, to a role player. He’ll obviously play most days, but he’ll be rotated around a bunch; something you would not think would happen with this kind of talent.

But nice for us. It’s an older team, and the V-Mart acquisition could allow us to play ’Tek 25% less and Lowell 40% less without a massive drop in talent. Fresh playoff legs and versatility!

Rock me, sexy Jesus...

by nuthinboutnuthin on Aug 1, 2009 3:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

YAY

We’ll try to replace the fan love tenfold too, I guess.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Aug 1, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tek doesn't suck..

  There is a reason why the pitching staff is good, and there were some recent no hits games. Remember Tek called the game for Buchholtz’s no hitter. One reason why the Sox FO are drooling over Mauer, because of his work behind the plate…

Tek is a professional, he isn’t the hitter he once was, and he was a hitting liability last year, but he is an important part of the pitching staff. The Sox probably want to groom him as a coach or have him replace Tito one of these days, they don’t do that for players that suck.

by superferret on Aug 1, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tek has been good this year, but he was bad enough last year that plenty of people were ready for him to move on in the off-season.

"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw

by BTLove on Aug 1, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep.

Although I do want Tek to be the next pitching coach, in the mold of Dave Duncan.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Aug 1, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Theo did a bad job

most worrisome problem, leaky defense at shortstop was not addressed

missed opportunity to get Halliday; if the price was Bucholtz and Bard, then he should have freely paid; both Bs have “head case” in their past history; always a bad bet if you don’t have strong character
in contrast, Halliday is clutch

Masterson has better character, though someone once said something about his arm slot and injury that may be right

Martinez is a nice insurance policy, and a good character guy, but not a big impact

hitting is still weak while the outfield fails to provide any punch

Theo went sideways; he could have gone forward

overestimating Bard. Probably a closer some day. But we need Halliday this year

by Frank Malzone on Aug 1, 2009 9:21 AM EDT reply actions  

Theo did not do a bad job

SS defense will improve once Lowrie is able to play everyday, and Nick Green becomes a strictly utility man.

I doubt the price of Halladay was simply Buchholz and Bard. Those two were most likely just the starting point. Add to that other pieces, too many pieces, and you could have gotten him, sure, but is it worth it? Not likely. We don’t need another ace, we need a solid 2/3 starter, and other than Washburn there just wasn’t any of those available. Maybe we can get one to pass through waivers or something, I don’t know, but the market for pitching just wasn’t there this year it seems unless you wanted Brian Bannister. No thanks.

Is Martinez a huge impact bat? No, but he’ll still provide good solid offense for this team, and we got that without giving up any of our top guys. Color me impressed, and when he leaves he’ll hopefully give us 2 picks that will replace Hagadone and Price when the time comes. Fine by me. This is a good move.

by South Coast Ghost on Aug 1, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

This.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Aug 1, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now that Masterson is gone, can we finally stop over-rating the guy?

Maybe he has more character than Buccholz, I don’t know. But these guys have almost the exact same FIP in their major league careers. And Masterson’s numbers as a starter are worse than Clay’s. Take into account the scouting reports on Buccholz and his potential as a starting pitcher, it is an absolute no-brainer who to keep, no matter your perceptions of their “character.” So let’s just stop the Masterson delusions, please.

And I’m pretty sure the Blue Jays were demanding more than Buch and Bard. Theo got a good hitter, who can relieve Varitek for a very cheap price. He did a fine job.

"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw

by BTLove on Aug 1, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

I hope you are right

I am rooting for Bucholtz and Bard. I want them to do well.

My guess is that Masterson could have a good career, like Bob Stanley (less sink, more power).

I think he is best used as a starter, pitching to contact. Next year as a 5 starter, soon a solid 3 or 4. Some have said his motion makes him prone to injury. I know nothing about it, one way or another.

My guess is that Masterson’s career will be as good, or better, than Bucholtz. I hope that is wrong.

But if Buchollz is so good, why do we keep running out Penny and Smoltz? Mr. 5 or 6 runs in five innings?

We need a solid 3 starter. Someone has to step up.

At this point, the Sox go as Wakefield goes. That’s a lot to put on a guy with a history of back troubles.

by Frank Malzone on Aug 1, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Penny, Smoltz and Buchh are currently in the rotation. And the reason we did not start the season with Buch are well known.

"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw

by BTLove on Aug 1, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm one of the guys who thinks Buch won't be an ace, but I see Masterson as nothing more than a swing guy.

He can’t start games for extended periods of time because he sucks against LHP and has days where he thinks throwing a strike means giving the batter a bruise.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Aug 1, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Halliday wasn't a missed opportunity..

Ricciardi was asking for way too much. He wanted 3 top prospects and a top position player already MLB proven. The closest team to Ricciardi asking price was the Phillies. However Ricciadi wanted more, (basically the top Phillies prospect, Kyle Drabek) The Phillies said this is ridiculous and basically took their offer to Cleveland instead to get Cliff Lee.

Ricciardi was going to ask for much, more from the Sox, because of any within division trade. There is a point when getting a Cy Young caliber pitcher for a season and third, add a bunch of payroll, while giving up future stars, is futile.

   The Jays GM handle these sweepstakes badly from the start, by not announcing it to the world. He could had a deal if he acted more discreetly about it, and not turn the whole thing into an opera.

Instead of trying to get a fantasy league deal, Ricciardi should had gotten the best deal out there, which would had been deal. The worst was the Rangers deal. Any package with Vicente Padilla is just bad.

by superferret on Aug 1, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

you might be right

if it is all that

AP story said that Bucholtz and Bard would have got it done; maybe not

I would trade Buchholtz and Bard (and any two players in Single A) for Halliday

because we could win this year

you cannot win every year; and I don’t think the goal is to come in 2nd or 3rd or 4th 10 years in a row

instead, you want to win when you can

Ortiz, Varitek, Lowell won’t be here long. Maybe not Bay

and injuries can screw up pitching fast

in my view, the Sox are close enough this year to go for it

instead, Theo just tinkered

by Frank Malzone on Aug 1, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

See, here's the thing.

We’re going to be close enough EVERY year to win it – that’s the beauty of Theo’s work. Buch and Bard wouldn’t have gotten it done, I don’t know what the AP was thinking. It would’ve taken Buch, Bard plus something like the package we gave up for VMart.

You point out that a lot of our team will be leaving soon – the good thing is that we have prospects to replace them, and if not, we have the money to sign FA’s who will put up similar, if not better, levels of production. BOTH of those would go down the drain if we traded for Halladay. Plus, he’s had his share of injuries too.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Aug 1, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

could be

I would have tossed Hagadone and Pryce into any deal

Bucholtz, Bard and Masterson seems too much to give up for Halladay — for the reason you say: Halladay’s injury history.

But ironic that I would stop there, since folks seem to have so little regard for Masterson

All water over the dam now.

The key is for the Sox to play with some urgency. Not sure why it has been lacking.

Maybe VM, abilities aside, will be the spark needed. I hear he is a great guy, and very passionate. Maybe playing the Rays and Yankees will be the spark.

by Frank Malzone on Aug 1, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not disagreeing with you here.

I want to see someone yelling at the dugout. Hopefully, VMart can bring his passion to the clubhouse in a big way – he was crying when being interviewed about being traded, so hopefully he acts as a rallying point.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Aug 1, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would trade Buchholz.

I wouldn’t trade Bard unless Pujols and Lincicum are part of the deal..
Bard is throwing some incredible stuff. If I have to trade Bard, It would as far away from the AL division as possible… The guy could be a sick closer. Just watch some of the stuff he throws, He mixes his pitches very well. Unlike Masterson…

Buchholz has some good stuff, he is just lacking confidence on his breaking stuff at the moment. He still has lots of potential in be a top of line starter..

by superferret on Aug 1, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Call me confused

Seems like a log jam. I highly doubt that the Sox will go forward with 11 pitchers which means we need to get rid of someone. Kott is out of options so we would have to DFA him and I am sure someone would pick him up. Who would catch the Knuckleball? V-Mart? There is NO WAY V-Mart has what it takes to catch the knuckle.

Who else is there to put in the minors? Kotchman? I am sure he will be happy to hear that.

“Hey Casey, Welcome to the team. We know you were a starter before and you probably think we are going to use you as a back up. Well you are wrong, you will be a starter just for Pawtucket”

by drabidea on Aug 1, 2009 10:07 AM EDT reply actions  

Kottaras is out of options? This is his first year in the majors. How does that work?

Also, Wake is on the DL, so we won’t have to worry about who’s catching him for a little while.

"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw

by BTLove on Aug 1, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yep.

That, and it can’t be that hard to catch Wake this year if Kott was doing do well – he was supposed to be an all-bat, no-glove catcher.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Aug 1, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Joe Sheehan's take from BP:
Overrated Move

Nothing against Victor Martinez, a very good player having a strong season after a lost 2008 campaign, but the idea that he changes the story for the Red Sox is overblown. A year ago, when Jason Varitek was one of the worst players in the league, this would have been a monster deal. Now, Varitek is playing well, and given his status with the team, he’s going to keep his job. That means Martinez will play a lot of first base and DH, and his .294 EqA bat isn’t anything special in those roles. It’s a small upgrade on Adam LaRoche once you consider defense. The gap between Martinez-as-catcher and Martinez-as-other is huge, a reminder that the ability to play catcher and hit well is a special combination of skills.

Where this deal should help the Sox is by giving them an out to cut ties with Varitek next year, installing Martinez as their #1 catcher and reaping the benefits of that decision. For the rest of this season, however, the trade amounts to a depth play, giving Terry Francona flexibility in assembling his lineup and batting order each day.

Seems to be pretty inline with what many of us were saying before the deal.

"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw

by BTLove on Aug 1, 2009 12:50 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't think Sheehan's agreeing with our depth charts though.

VMart will be getting catching some, most likely Wake and on days when Tito doesn’t feel like having Tek batting lefty.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Aug 1, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let’s say he gets 2 out of 5 starts at catcher. That would be 24 starts on the year, about 100 PA’s. Vic is better than Tek, but those 100 PA’s of improvement are probably worth about .5 wins. BP is saying that he really isn’t much of an improvement over Laroche when playing 1B or DH. This means that the team is probably less than a win improved after the trade.

It is basically a depth move, which is weird considering that he was the face of the Cleveland Indians for years.

"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw

by BTLove on Aug 1, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not our fault that Cleveland was being cheap.

We might see other players putting up better numbers too with more rest, better protection, etc.

Although, Sheehan just had an article about how “protection” isn’t real in this week’s SI. Of course, the article itself pretty much ended up arguing that Holliday WOULD give Pujols protection.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Aug 1, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Over the Monster, an SB Nation community that delivers news and analysis while encouraging discussion regarding everything Boston Red Sox. OTM was founded Feb. 22, 2005.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Einstein_small
OTM Fantasy: Week 6

Recent FanPosts

Einstein_small
OTM Fantasy: Week 7
Pedroialazers2_small
The possibility of trading Kevin Youkilis
Moar_bacon_small
PSA vs. OTM Fantasy Smackdown Update
Small
The Curious Case of Daniel Nava
Rsz_ashleyspade_small
Top Red Sox Prospects
Einstein_small
OTM Fantasy: Week 5
Small
Mariano Rivera and TS Elliot and maybe Robert Frost
Small
Rivera has torn ACL
Einstein_small
OTM Fantasy Leagues Discussion

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Yahoo_full_count

Managers

Red_seat_small Ben Buchanan

Twitter_eb_2_small Marc Normandin

Authors

Lowrie__1234972975_0178-1_small lone1c

Jddrew_small gizmosandy

Pedoria1_small Mattsullivan

Baghead-1_small Matthew Kory

Photo__2__small BrendanOToole

Cee_small Cee Angi