MANNY AND ORTIZ TESTED POSITIVE FOR ROIDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OUR WORLD SERIES RINGS ARE NOW GOING TO BE TAINTED ALONG WITH THE INDIVIDUAL RECORDS OF THE ERA. THIS NEVER ENDS.
IM GOING TO HAVE A HARDER TIME STOMACHING THIS BECAUSE THE TWO, FAR AND AWAY, BEST PLAYERS WE HAD FOR THOSE YEARS ARE FOREVER LINKED TO STEROIDS...WHAT OTHER WORLD SERIES CHAMPION TEAM CAN YOU SAY THAT ABOUT IN THE STEROID ERA??
THE YANKEES HAD CLEMENS (MOST LIKELY)..BUT HE WASNT THEIR BEST PLAYER AND FACE OF THE FRANCHISE.
2001 - DIAMONDBACKS = CLEAN
2002 - ANGELS = CLEAN
2003 - MARLINS = CLEAN OFFICIALLY BUT PROBABLY NOT REALISTICALLY
2004 - RED SOX = ROIDS...EVERYWHERE
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Comments
2001 DBacks NOT clean
Luis Gonzalez 57 HR
2002 Angels – Troy Glaus
2003 Marlins – Pudge
by YanksFanSince64 on Jul 30, 2009 1:26 PM EDT reply actions
Don't call them ours
When you’ve just joined us today from Pinstripe Alley. You actually are the caricatures we make fun of you as. Thank you for confirming this for us. It takes a team, and a team of mostly non-steriod users beat the snot out of yours, which wasn’t clean either, don’t forget A-Rod and Giambi.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
obviously calling them "ours" was a joke
hence the capital letters for emphasis. Please don’t try to make excuses for them. I go to school in Boston and live with Red Sox fans all around me. When the A-Rod info was released, they wouldn’t shut up, and by they I mean you and all Red Sox fans. Yes, it was a feeding frenzy. As a huge Yankees fan, I have nothing to say in defense of A-Rod, besides the fact that “everyone else was doing it.” But dont tell me the 04 Red Sox were mostly non-steroid users.
Here’s a fun fact: In 2003, Bill Mueller, after having a career average of .284, most RBIs in a season 59, and most HRs in a season 10—enjoys a remarkably coincidental career year, winning the battle title after hitting .326, with 19 HR and 85 RBI.
Yes. Everyone was doing it. Yes. There were definately Yankees on their World Series teams that took them. But not the faces of the franchise. Not Jeter. Not Rivera. Not Paul O’Neill. Not Bernie. Not Posada. Not Broscious. Yes Pettitte.
Call it what you want, but the world series of 04 and 07 will from now on be linked to the faces of those two teams: Manny and Ortiz (along with the clean guys Schilling Beckett and the others) as steroid users.
by DefensiveIndifference1 on Jul 30, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
How do you
Know Posada isn’t on the list? Or Paul o’Neill(roid rage anyone?) Or Mariano? Or Bernie? Hmm Yankee Fan? HMMMMM?
Once again, more informed.
i dont know
that posada is not on the list..or oneill..or mariano..but I DO know that manny and ortiz are..sooo..whats ur point?
by DefensiveIndifference1 on Jul 30, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
My Point
Is how do you know Manny is on the list?
Did you see it?
Did the NYT print a copy of the list all blacked out except for Sosa, A-Rod, Manny and Ortiz? Are you the guy with the list?
Is the list even real?
Are you real?
Does it matter?
Did you take a red pill or a blue pill?
Is Jeter shooting up right now?
Does this post help your place in Yankee Fandom?
Do you feel better about yourself posting on a Red Sox board about something bad that happenned to the Red Sox?
Have you ever had a girlfriend?
Or a boyfriend?
Or an animal friend?
Are you alone at work right now in your cubicle and this fulfills you?
Do it bother you that your post doesn’t bother me?
Do you wear Yankee Underwear to bed?
Do you have naked pictures of Jeter on your cellphone?
Do you cry when I talk to you like this?
Torturing MFY Yankee fans = My favorite Pasttime.
Once again, more informed.
by jkeough on Jul 30, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
umm...
considering your post probably took about 10 times longer to write than mine, i would like to ask you all the same questions…
And maybe you’re right..some guy is making all this up and its one giant conspiracy and theres no list, this is just to bring down the game of baseball. Yes. I do have naked pictures of Jeter on my cell phone. They’re awesome .And you would too if you ever had a player as good as him on any Red Sox team you witnessed.
Oh, and remember this little quote he dropped back on Feb. 17, 2009. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2009/news/story?id=3911153)
“I would suggest everybody get tested, not random, everybody,” he said. “You go team by team. You test everybody three, four times a year and that’s about it.”
And if a player tests positive for steroids?
“Ban ’em for the whole year,” the slugger said.
You made me tear up a little, but at least I won’t be crying myself to sleep tonight like most fans in Boston.
by DefensiveIndifference1 on Jul 30, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
What you still don't see is
I don’t care if Ortiz was on the Juice like other Red Sox fans may. In fact I think it’s great he would put his body through that for his team. Sometimes I wish he would shoot up between at-bats.
Varitek too.
And Nick Green.
And could somebody give Lowrie a freaking sandwich!!
Once again, more informed.
You think he put his body through this for the team? or for himself?
He was a part time player before 2003, and all of a sudden, hitting 27 HR in the second half of 2003? Don’t you think his own financial incentive is bigger than his desire to help the team wins?
He hit a 3 run bomb today and won the game
Did a great job of making us all forget about this story.
I didn't like the old one very much. I didn't see the ball there very well. - Julio Lugo on the old Yankees Stadium.
Dude
your arguments are silly-just like all the trolls on this site today. Consider this-tons of Yankees have been outed, and you have no way of knowing if Jeter or Mariano or Bernie took steroids or not. I can just as easily turn around and say “sure Ortiz and Manny tested positive, but the stopped in 2003” and thus 04 and 07 are taint-free. Am I wrong? Do you have proof? Did they fail tests after 03? Do you believe ARod’s story he stopped in 04? Who cares.
Problem here:
Even if they weren’t using in 2004-2007, the muscles they built up while using aren’t going to atrophy back to the levels they would be at without using the ’roids to increase their efficiency in working out.
@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.
yea i do have proof
here’s papi’s stats
1997-2002 —> 58 total home runs, granted 97-99 he did not play full seasons, so we’ll say in the 3 years prior to joining the Sox:
2000: .282, 10 HR, 63 RBI
2001: .234, 18 HR, 48 RBI
2002: .272, 20 HR, 75 RBI
Red Sox Years:
2003: .288, 31 HR, 101 RBI
2004: .301, 41 HR, 139 RBI
2005: .300, 47 HR, 148 RBI
2006: .287, 54 HR, 137 RBI
2007: .332, 35 HR, 117 RBI
That’s my proof. Ortiz was basically a mediocre, underachieving power hitter that the Twins were happy to get rid of in ‘03. His power numbers and production sky-rocketted at an absurd pace…overnight. This has nothing to do with A-Rod, but I’ll bring him up anyway..Yes, during 2001-2003 when he admitted to using, his power numbers were ridiculous too. Absurd.
I’m not trying to defend A-Rod, or Pettitte, or Clemens, or any other Yankee who used. But don’t sit there and deny the truth.
It is a reality of this era in baseball, and its unfortunate that the face of the Red Sox and most beloved fan favorite was caught in a lie.
Here’s a quote from Howard Bryant’s article on the front page of ESPN today. It was taken during a phone conversation he had with Ortiz this May. Ortiz said: “And that is the biggest reason why I have never used steroids. Because then he would have to go to school and have to listen to all the kids say that his dad is dirty, a cheater, and everything for him would be taken away from him and he would be ruined. I make sure I don’t do those things, for him.”
If you sit there and tell me you are not a little disappointed, just like any real fan should be, that he was outed, then you are not being realistic or true to yourself.
This situation doesn’t make the Yankees a better team or a better organization, but it makes Boston just as dirty as the Bronx. Live with that reality.
by DefensiveIndifference1 on Jul 31, 2009 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions
You are silly
first the things I don’t disagree with-Boston is just as dirty as NY. I have always believed this to be true. I never felt that the Sox or any team has a moral high ground. You can search under my name for comments to that effect on PSA after the Arod outing. Indeed, there I said that (in my mind) it is likely that Ortiz did roids. Also-I don’t think anyone is denying the truth. My quote about not taking from 03 on was not to say that I think it is factual (in fact I think these guys are all still taking stuff), but it is to make the point that one can eaisly engage in the same kind ass-covering shit I read all day yesterday from Yankee fans about their guys. Like Arod saying “I took from 2002-2004.” Dude, his numbers are the same or better before then and after then, and several sources place the start of his juicing in high school. Get over it-he took when he hit 50+ hrs for the Yankees just like Ortiz did when he hit 54 homers.
Now, as for your last point, actually, your “statistical” analysis proof is garbage. Probably Ortiz took roids all they way back to when he was a Twin. He was injured and younger, that is all. Let’s look more carefully. A player’s prime is generally considered 28-30, just when Ortiz hit his largest # of home runs. At 25 he hit one homer per 16.8 at bats. In 2003-they year he was flagged he hit one every 14.4 at bats. Not a huge difference. He was older, nearing his prime and surrounded by better hitters. By your argument, Ryan Howard should be already suspended. He couldn’t even reach a 900 OPS as a 23 yearold in A ball (!). The hits 22 homers at25. The 58 at 26. That is hella more suspicious than Ortiz. My guess-both of these guys used before and after.
I know 100% that O'Neill isn't on the list
He retired in 2001.
by New York Sports Jerk on Jul 30, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
This is
True. Still he was an angry man. Roid Rage. It is in the latest copy of the NYT. Go check it out, if they report it it must be true!!
Once again, more informed.
Shoot the messenger, right?
Ortiz already admitted this was true, so…
by New York Sports Jerk on Jul 30, 2009 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
He acknowledged that the union confirmed the report when he asked.
I wouldn’t call that an admission – he’s going to try to find out what caused the positive test and how it got in his system.
@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.
Sadly, I'm going to have to agree with you here (mostly).
I’m in the same situation as you, but in a school in Tampa.
Only issue: Mueller. Bringing up his BA and RBIs is pretty pointless. ‘Roids don’t help you get more hits (aside from pushing warning track fly balls over), and they don’t get you more chances with RISP.
@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.
Sorry... cheat
If we were indeed the Evil Empire, you are simply one of us now.
1918. Still.
How do you live with that?
Roberts was out
But the juice he was probly on was safe.
Here, take two of these and call me in the morning.
- *
You’ll need them from now on.
I believe it's called loyalty.
We don’t expect our team to win every World Series.
@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.
rogueless
we never won shit with giambi or arod, your drought of 86 years was ended by your two best players on PERFORMING ENHANCING DRUGS, AKA STEROIDS. by the way you are normal, just plain normal
Yeah funny how you guys haven’t won shit since the end of the steroids era…
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
No. Just
two * *
The whole world knows that now.
So, going by your logic, no one has ever won a World Series.
EVERYONE cheats in baseball. Stealing signs, greenies, roids, etc.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday
No he is
saying that our championships carry an asterisk* because he is so ironic.
Once again, more informed.
No MFY taint?
Roger Clemens didn’t pitch for the MFY in 1999 and 2000?
Jose Canseco didn’t inject everyone in the clubhouse in 2000?
Jason Grimsley didn’t juice in 1999 and 2000?
Chuck Knoblauch didn’t play in 1998, 1999, and 2000?
Mike Stanton didn’t pitch in 1998, 1999, and 2000?
David Justice didn’t play in 2000?
Andy Pettitte didn’t pitch in 1996, 1998, 1999, and 2000?
Denny Neagle didn’t pitch in 2000?
Darren Holmes didn’t pitch in 1998?
Ricky Bones didn’t pitch in 1996?
Glenallen Hill didn’t play in 2000?
Am I forgetting anyone? It sure sounds like the MFY have a veritable culture of pharmaceutical cheating.
by RSNexile on Jul 30, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I haven’t gone back and taken a good look at lists of steroid users but… really? If they call our 04 and 07 teams tainted for two players (3 if you really want to count gagne) they need to re-evaluate their 98-00 championships.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
+1
Homer: Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.
by DougieWentDeep on Jul 30, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's say that it is all true.
Then, when you guys took steroids, you couldn’t even WIN championships. We can.
Well, I'll appreciate for you to keep my zingers outta your mouth!
how do you know
did they test positive in 04 or 07? Maybe they stopped. Maybe Jeter, Posada, Mariano, Bernie and the rest juiced. Why wouldn’t they? It was not banned, and the rest of the league was. Who knows, and at this point, who really cares.
I COMPLETLEY AGRE
U R SO RITE DID U ALSO READ THIS BOOK U MUST HAVE BECUZ THAT’S JUST WHAT THE BOOK SAYS
WE TRUE YAKEE FANS CAN TAKE COMFORT IN THE TRUTH THAT NO YANKEES WERE STEROID USERS AND EVERYONE IN THE DECADE WHO BEAT OUR BELOVED TEAM WERE STINKING STEROYDAL CHEATERS
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on Jul 30, 2009 1:42 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
COUNTZ TEH RINGZ!!!!
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
this was a moral blow
but i still think our WS wins are meaningful when you look at what guys like curt schilling did…it may not have been a 4 game sweep, or may not even have had the chance to sniff the series in 04 if it wasn’t for Schillings performance…
there was another pretty dominant pitcher in 07 playoffs if i remember correctly
Having 2 guys that juiced sucks big time (especially those 2), but as everyone seems to know, this is not terribly surprising, sad, but not too surprising.
Homer: Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.
Tell Me
Why is it sad? Does it change your memory that dramatically? Does it really matter at all?
Do you know what’s really sad?
Homeless Children = Sad.
Baseball Players on PED’s = Who gives a rat’s ass? Hit another homer!
Once again, more informed.
I just can’t condone cheating like that. And that is exactly what it is and the players know that when they do it. It doesn’t make a difference that the Commish turned his head and let it happen or that a ton of players did it, it was still cheating and it taints what I believe is the world’s greatest game. It’s sad because people thought Ortiz was a rags to riches story, a good guy with a big heart who made it big and spoke out against steroids.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
easy guy, not like sad as in weeping tears sad, sad as in…its sad that another player that i respected is a cheater.
Homer: Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.
by DougieWentDeep on Jul 31, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
well what did you expect
not sure when all the rules were passed on PEDS, but I’m really not all to suprised. In the late 90ies I forgot whom said it, but the statement goes as follows, “everyone’s on it”. It was a time not too long ago that MLB showered Big Mac and Sammy S for there HR bash off. MLB made it a personal obligation to showcase those sluggers whom were on something. They got tons of acclaides and tons of money followed. Lets say it another way. Your at work and your co-workers are getting a huge raise. The only diffrence is that they are taking advantage of a loop hole and no one seems to care. Not the boss, not there direct supervisor, not even the owner seems to care that these co-workers are bending the rules to make hey. The question is would you? I would, I am sure 95% of people would. When you have the chance to make a couple extra hundread million dollars, I think most people would do it.
Jeffrey M Melhorn
are people really that surprised?
It seems as if all the Dominicans had been sharing needles anyways. (Albert?….)
Can all fans of all baseball teams just admit that they most likely had a PED user on there team through the 90s and early 2000s?
Does it hurt the Sox 2004 and 2007 championships? I would say not…maybe slightly tarnished.
OK-I know this thread is a joke
but did anyone see Canseco’s comments today after the Ortiz story broke? He has been mostly correct. Anyway-go to the ESPN story. He claims “I know who is on the list, and the big bombshell is that there is a hall of famer on the list.” That can only be Ricky-who he played with in the 80’s and did play a bit in 03. Otherwise, there can’t be any HOFers who played in 03.
I was wondering who he was talking about, I was going to do a little research and figure it out. I think it is sad that Canseco is our best source, sadder still that he is usually right about this stuff.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
it has to be ricky,
right? i mean no one else in the hall played in 2003…
only
rice and ricky got in this year-and this was ricky’s first year of eligibility…so can’t be anyone else i think.
This hurts Red Sox fans...
…who believed him when he said he’d never done it. I for one believed he was clean. I would like to see the whole damned list come out, not in dribs and drabs, so that we can get past all this. I’m so tired of this merry-go-round treatment of this subject, it doesn’t do anybody any good to keep dragging it up. I don’t like anybody who cheats, and until there is some ‘smoking gun’ that shows that David Ortiz was framed, I have to believe that he cheated. It’s too bad, because he seems like a pretty good guy, not as egotistical as some of the other guys ‘outed’ by leaks from this list.
by MonsterShadow327 on Jul 31, 2009 4:27 AM EDT reply actions
As a fan of the Angels...
I’m glad that we are deemed clean by the poster. However, as fans of baseball, this is our cross to bear. Hearing that David “Papi” Ortiz is or was dirty saddens me, not as a fan of the sox, but as a baseball fan in general. Papi is a stand up guy, a fan favorite, and classy guy. To hear of him giving in to steroid use is deflating to say the least. I guess they’re all dirty. A very sad day for me…
YOU DON'T KNOW THE POWER OF THE DARKSIDE.....
dude
spare the sanctimony. Your team was not clean. Glaus (who hit 30 Hrs and drove in 111 and was your world series MVP) and Donnelly have been outed for sure-they are in the Mitchell report. Anderson’s head is so large that HGH is a likely factor. Vlad (now), Abreu(now), etc=roids too. Wake up.
Although I agree with Buzzy that the Angels likely had their share of users, I would like to thank halofolife for trying to sympthasize with us.
@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.
Buzzy
Don’t misunderstand me, i’m not talking smack. I always liked Ortiz, he seems like a very genuine, sincere stand up guy. It’s real easy to hate on cheaters like A-Roid, Manny, Bonds etc. But given his past statements, you know, ban players for using, test me all you want, things of that nature, its just sad. And, i’m sure that many Angels have been dirty i.e. Glaus, Wooten, Spezio and Weber, perhaps even GA, its still a sad day for our favorite sport. That’s all I meant.
YOU DON'T KNOW THE POWER OF THE DARKSIDE.....
i really don't care about the 2003 list
these leaks from records that are supposed to be sealed are not of interest to me. By their nature, they cannot be examined and verified. So what value do they have? All they can do is feed rumors.
the list - why it is of value
1. Fire Bud Selig, the weak-willed participant whose helped baseball
infest itself with the steroid era -players.
2. Release the entire 2003 list – why keep it secret?
3. Mandatory testing – everybody must.
Go transparent – get it out in the public — there are certainly more than 100 players who played that year.
Even if this isn’t a thorough representation, Let’s do it – and stop this one name at a time stuff.
The real damage is to kids on the high school and college level doing this stuff. A generation of ’roid damaged men and women who emulate faulty men and women.
ejs
The players union won't let it be revealed because it was supposed to be anonymous.
That would be entrapment, kinda.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday
Question
What “performance enhaning drugs” were theytesting for in 2003? Obviously steroids, probably HGH. Amphetamines? Ritalin? Aderol?
Manny ain't the only bad man.
You can't test for HGH without blood testing, which is why the union isn't allowing it.
We were talking about this in a GT a few days ago, let me try to find it again… Crap, I would not link to my source. Hmm…
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation
Ah, found it:
http://www.mlb.com/mlb/news/drug_policy.jsp?content=timeline
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20030311&content_id=217260&vkey=spt2003news&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
http://www.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20031113&content_id=603458&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
From the last one:
Under terms of the 2002 drug agreement, all anabolic steroids deemed illegal by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, are subject to testing.
Greenies weren’t banned until 2005, IIRC.
@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday; Learn to use SB Nation

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