Theo still looking for big changes?

by Bama Sox on Jul 26, 2009 3:19 PM EDT

According to Nick Cafardo of The Boston Globe, the Cleveland Indians rejected a trade that would have sent right-hander Clay Buchholz to the Indians in exchange for Victor Martinez. Furthermore, the Red Sox countered with a deal that consisted of Justin Masterson and Michael Bowden for Martinez, but the Indians turned that offer down as well.

Cafardo proposes a swap of "underachieving" Scott Boras clients, saying the Red Sox and Tigers should swap Magglio Ordonez for J.D. Drew.

What is everyone’s thought about the following reports?

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Both would be terrible deals IMHO

It would be too much to give up for VMart who isn’t steallar behind the plate. I would rather use the resources to get Halladay now or AGonzo later.

Second, I’m thankful that Carfardo is not the Sox GM as that would be a horrific deal. Ordonez makes $4M more a year and Drew the superior defender. Accordingly to Fan Graphs, Drew’s ‘09 value is just short of $8M while Ordonez is $2M in the hole. Last, Ordonez would make the lineup too righty hefty. The only compelling arguments are that you would be free of Drew’s ‘11 salary and MAYBE Ordonez might turn it around in Boston. Drew can, should and probably will hit better. I’ll take my chances with over Ordonez.

by mg050369 on Jul 26, 2009 3:42 PM EDT reply actions

This, except the thing about using the resourcs to get Halladay.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Jul 26, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Yes,

this makes sense bc the last thing the Red Sox want in their rotation is the best pitcher in baseball and a guy who just owned them in 9 innings v. the Red Sox 1b Ace.

Makes total sense.

Seriously, is everyone willing to admit their man crush for Buchholz if trading him for an AL 2009 All Star catcher is not enough?

No? Ahh, Cleveland turned this trade down bc Buchholz’s potential scares them….they don’t love themselves enough to handle that type of talent. =)

Theo offered this trade up right after his last start against Texas. Coincidence? Last week, every report was that Buchholz was untouchable. Now, well not so untouchable….

by SoxAcumen on Jul 26, 2009 5:47 PM EDT reply actions

Did you read the article?

If not, I will highlight the part about the trade:

At this time of year, one takes trade information with a grain of salt, but according to one NL scout, after the Indians turned down Buchholz for Victor Martinez, the Sox countered with a package of Masterson, Michael Bowden, and an outfield prospect. The Indians turned it down.

This is a non-scoop. Cafardo is quoting an unnamed NL scout—come on. That’s like quoting an unnamed psychic. It’s meaningless.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jul 26, 2009 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions

+1

Cafardo has been making stuff up for 40 years and will continue to until he dies.

Once again, more informed.

by jkeough on Jul 26, 2009 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Yup, it looks like Cafardo got things wrong--again

According to Mazz:

According to a baseball source, the Indians offered to deal Martinez for Buchholz straight up, but the Sox quickly declined.

The NY Post’s Joel Sherman writes:

The Rays and Red Sox are both talking to the Indians about deals that would bring them both Cliff Lee and Victor Martinez. Tampa is willing to part with touted pitching prospect Wade Davis. The Red Sox are not quite there yet in willingness to deal Clay Buchholz.

When it comes to baseball rumors, Mazz and Sherman have much better sources than Cafardo and his unnamed scout.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jul 27, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions

Because

Cafardo flat makes stuff up. His unnamed source is himself.

Once again, more informed.

by jkeough on Jul 27, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions

No on Victor.

At first I was pretty on-board with the idea of trading for Victor Martinez. But now I’m not so sure.

First, we have to figure out how he would be used on this team. With Jason Varitek currently playing great (.341 wOBA, 5th in MLB among qualified catchers), I am going to assume that he is not about to lose all of his playing time. I also do not think that Victor or Tek will be asked to catch Wake, so we’ll still have to carry Kottaras. So maybe we get Varitek 2 starts, Victor 2 starts and Kottaras one start for every 5 games (even then we’re only playing Tek two out of every 5 games, which I’m not so sure Tito would do). That means we’re upgrading from Tek to Victor in 40% of our games. . According to ZiPS projections, its about 40 pts of wOBA going forward.

We also can get him some starts at DH and 1B. Vic is projected to be about 15 pts of wOBA better than Lowell. However, ZiPS projects Adam Laroche for a better wOBA than Victor Martinez (and Mikey Lowell) for the rest of the season. So playing Vic at 1B (with Youk at 3rd) would actually be a less than optimal lineup. DHing him would produce similar results.

I know Vic is a great player and would bring value to any team. But I do not think that value would be optimized on this Red Sox team. And for the costs that are being talked about, I do not think he will improve this team to the point that makes it worth giving up our young pitching.

"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw

by BTLove on Jul 26, 2009 7:28 PM EDT reply actions