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Around SBN: Terry Collins, David Wright, And The Mets/Brewers Kerfuffle

Trades of July 22nd

Today the Sox made two trades, both of which have the opportunity to be either a win or a rallying point for the Anti-Theo movement, as we will see. Using Sky Kalkman's Trade Value Calculator, I am going to break down the trades.

First, the Sox made a trade for Adam LaRoche, former first basemen of the Pittsburgh Pirates. Considering that he won't get too much playing time, I projected he would be worth 0.8 WAR the rest of the season, based on his past three seasons. Let's see how much he's worth for the rest of the season, especially if he makes Type B classification as a FA.

Picture1x1_medium

So, now that we have an approximate value for what the Sox are getting in this trade, let's find out what they are giving up.

Star-divide

The Sox sent two prospects back to the Pirates, neither of which were in the Sox' long terms plans, it would seem. All-glove-no-bat SS Argenis Diaz was given a C+ grade by John Sickels of Minor League Ball. According to Victor Wang's research, which can be summed up by Erik Manning here, he should be worth $0.7 million dollars over his career. The other prospect, pitcher Hunter Strickland, wasn't given a grade by Sickels, but he should fall in roughly with the C grade pitchers, who are worth $2.1 million dollars on average. Since Diaz is on the upper end of the C grade, it should balance out.

In total, the prospects given up are valued at $2.8 million, which would mean the Sox are effectively profiting half a million dollars from this deal, according to my calculations. Now for the I'm-pretty-stupid-so-don't-take-my-word-for-it disclaimer: This projection banks heavily not only on LaRoche making it to the Type B level by the end of the season, but on him regressing to the numbers he was putting up over the past two seasons. There is a good chance he isn't nearly as good as I optimistically project him to be, which would drop his value close to, if not under, zero. That would mean the Sox gave up two mediocre prospects, which isn't a huge loss. The problem would arise if the Sox lose better production from a player to make space for LaRoche. Let's hope he makes Theo look smart.

 

Later in the day, news broke that the St. Louis Cardinals had a complete mental breakdown and bought every remaining stock in the old GM had agreed to trade a problem for a problem, sending struggling OF Chis Duncan to the Red Sox for the spawn of Satan himself, Julio Lugo. Normally, I'd be running through the streets singing the praises of Theo Epstein, but there's a problem. The Sox are going to be paying all of Lugo's contract for the next two season, roughly $13.5 million dollars. I've accounted for this in my calculations, as you can see: Picture2_medium

The WAR calculations, again, come from the past three seasons. Now, let's see if Duncan can be worth anywhere close enough to the value of Lugo's contract:

Duncan_medium

Oh, no. Even though it's hard to project Duncan because he's been slumping and will likely be in the Minors for most of the season, it'd be difficult for him to come anywhere near valuable enough to make Lugo's contract worth taking on. Overall, the Sox are losing $17.1 million dollars on this trade, assuming my calculations are right. Unfortunately, the Sox were going to have to pay Lugo most, if not all, of his contract no matter who got him, so this deal had almost no shot at being fair to begin with.

(Side note - anyone who's familiar with the Calculator: If a player avoiding arbitration for a season, should I continue with the progressing scale as if they had gone to arbitration? I did here, which is why Duncan is shown as earning so much next year and in 2011).

So, what do you guys think? Will LaRoche be worth it? Will Duncan make the trade look less horrible? Did I fail horribly in my analysis?


 

Comment 28 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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Good job. If Chris Duncan or Adam LaRoche are direct contributors(bring back Win Shares!!) in a single win the rest of the season they make it worth it. They almost got nothing for Lugo if he signed with mets after the 10 day period. Good job , I like graphs!

Once again, more informed.

by jkeough on Jul 23, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions  

WAR is better than Win Shares, IIRC.

It figures out how much a player contributed to each individual game and adds it all up into a nice round number. That’s not how the actual calculations work, but that’s what it effectively does.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Jul 23, 2009 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

I understand it

I just like saying Win Shares.

Once again, more informed.

by jkeough on Jul 23, 2009 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ah.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Jul 23, 2009 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

I like the acquisition of Duncan.

He had 2 good years. He’s still 28 and can recapture whatever it was he had.

by Ben Buchanan on Jul 23, 2009 12:24 AM EDT reply actions  

USG, you might know this.

How many arbitration years does he have left? I assumed 2 b/c Cot’s only said he avoided arb last year – nothing on the previous years.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Jul 23, 2009 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

I can't imagine he was a Super 2, so 2 sounds right,

But I think there’s something to be said for the fact that he didn’t. Accepting such a low salary, combined with his mediocre performance and likely minor-league designation, suggests that he’ll accept what the team gives him, knowing he won’t get any better in arbitration. He’s not going to make 2.6mm unless his numbers go up considerably.

by Ben Buchanan on Jul 23, 2009 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was going by the guidelines included in the Calculator.

40%, 60%, 80% of WAR value for each consecutive year of arbitration.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Jul 23, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

He Okay

He is just terrible against lefties. .269OBP

Once again, more informed.

by jkeough on Jul 23, 2009 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

So

Is Kotsay being released?

Once again, more informed.

by jkeough on Jul 23, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Someone might need a bench bat.

If we got Duncan for Lugo, we can get a B-/C prospect for Kotsay, I’d assume.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Jul 23, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good analysis

Not context specific though. The Sox were going to be on the hook for Lugo’s contract regardless, so they did well to at least get something out of it. And when you have a farm system as stocked as the Sox’s you can afford to give away your C-level prospects.

by Gnick on Jul 23, 2009 1:11 AM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, I was just kinda hoping Theo would convince someone to take SOME of the money.

I agree with the second point – seen here:

That would mean the Sox gave up two mediocre prospects, which isn’t a huge loss.

I didn’t word that too well.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Jul 23, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good stuff.

However, I really doubt the Sox will offer arbitration to Laroche, meaning that we will not get the draft picks. Laroche is making $7M this year, and he would most likely receive the same amount if brought to arbitration. I really do not think the guy is in the team’s plans for the future, so I doubt we will want to pay him $7 or $8 M per year.

"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw

by BTLove on Jul 23, 2009 2:34 AM EDT reply actions  

I don't know that a guy putting up his numbers makes 7 or 8 million per year in arb. Probably significantly less.

Though I do see that it’s a danger. I’m sure the Sox will weigh their options come the fall. Another thing to consider, though, is if LaRoche wouldn’t be more tempted to decline arbitration for a starting role.

by Ben Buchanan on Jul 23, 2009 3:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Looking at his stats

This guy, in a down market may get a 25% reduction in pay. Look at the salary trends. For mid-level guys like this if he doesn’t put on a show(and he needs to start basically every day to get the production) he is going down. Calculated offer of arbitration?

Once again, more informed.

by jkeough on Jul 23, 2009 3:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think he'd get the same amount of money in arbitration or as a FA.

By definition, arbitration gives us a bit of slack here, considering that LaRoche hasn’t been great, so the arbiter should set the amount pretty low, IMO.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Jul 23, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rarely do guys see decreases in salary during arbitration. Any examples? Anyone?

"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw

by BTLove on Jul 23, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Loretta after 2007.

Rare, but it happens.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Jul 23, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

How much of a drop?

Percentage wise and $$ wise?

Once again, more informed.

by jkeough on Jul 23, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oddly, his pay rose from $2.5 to 2.75mil.

My sources lied.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Jul 23, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Alright, I was wrong.

Always a first time for everything though, right?

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Jul 23, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well..

Maybe it was adjusted for inflation.

Once again, more informed.

by jkeough on Jul 23, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmm.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Jul 23, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Adam LaRoche

I think LaRoche is vastly underrated, and got put up much better numbers with a better ballclub. It seems as if everyone plays better after they leave Pittsburgh, and this should be no exception. I know his 3-8 start with a HR may be a little deceiving to some, but look for LaRoche to keep up with his normal after-the-break rise in stats like he does every season. I think he could be a major contributor during the stretch, making this trade more than worth while.

by Justin_Bobo on Jul 26, 2009 8:41 PM EDT reply actions  

We'll see.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Jul 26, 2009 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

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