Game 90: Penny struggles, Sox lose

by Randy Booth on Jul 19, 2009 1:47 AM EDT in Game Stories

Final - 7.18.2009	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	R	H	E
Boston Red Sox	0	1	0	0	0	0	1	0	0	2	6	0
Toronto Blue Jays	0	1	0	3	2	0	0	0	X	6	8	0

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And we call that a 'loss.'

Brad Penny was just not very good and that's the bottom line. He gave up six runs in five innings of work for the loss.

The offense wasn't much better, either. Rocco Baldelli had an RBI and Jed Lowrie, in his return from the DL, notched a home run. But the Sox need much more than that to beat a team like the Jays. Where's the offense? I thought it was back. Apparently not.

Sox look to win the series with Jon Lester on the mound Sunday.

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Comments

Meh.

Time to enjoy the “audition” of Doc tomorrow.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Jul 19, 2009 2:18 AM EDT reply actions

Sox need a hitter.

MODERATOR

by gizmosandy on Jul 19, 2009 8:39 AM EDT reply actions

Not so sure

The Sox this year have averaged 5.23 runs per game. Last year, they averaged 5.22 runs per game. In 2007, they averaged 5.35 runs per game.

If Lowell is healthy, they probably don’t need a bat. Bay has struggled since June 1st: .220 AVG/.329 OBP/.390. For the last 38 games, he has hit for a .719 OPS. Unless you think he is done, he may be the hitter the Sox “acquire.”

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jul 19, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions

We did not win it all in 2008 so there is room for improvement.
If Lowell were healthy in the ALCS we win it.

MODERATOR

by gizmosandy on Jul 19, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions

If Beckett was healthy, they beat Tampa.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jul 19, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions

Beckett only cost us game 2
Kotsay costs us the series

MODERATOR

by gizmosandy on Jul 19, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions

If they won Game 2, they win the series

End of story

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jul 19, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Correct, but Kotsay leaving runners on base was spread across the entire 7 game series. Thus, he was more to blame than Beckett.

MODERATOR

by gizmosandy on Jul 19, 2009 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions

Kotsay hit the ball hard and was unlucky. He played well defensively. He didn’t cost them the ALCS.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jul 19, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions

You are wrong. sorry.

MODERATOR

by gizmosandy on Jul 20, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions

Kotsay was far from the worst Sox hitter in the ALCS last year. In fact, he had the most extra-base hits after Youk and Dusty (two of the Sox’ best hitters in that series).

Scapegoating the Sox’ backup 1B for a series loss is crazy. A number of Boston players hit poorly in that series. Furthermore, one post-season series is an amazingly small sample.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jul 20, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions

Lowell being hurt lead to Kotsay having to start. Kotsay should not have been starting but we had no other choice. My larger point is Kotsay starting in October is not a good idea. We should take measures to prevent that from being our only option.

I just think Kotsay cost us the series you will not convince me otherwise. He came up in plenty of big situations and did nothing.

MODERATOR

by gizmosandy on Jul 20, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions

Sorry

Drugs is right. Kotsay did not cost the series. In fact, you can’t even quantify or define that. How does a single player do that unless he factors into the last play of the last game? Many things cost the Sox the series. The Sox were lucky not to lose that series in 5 games-so how did Kotsay cost the Sox the series? Was he the worst hitter on the team? No. Did he cost in the field? No. Was he great? No. He was 7/30, did not make an error, only Ked 4 times. He was meh. Many people came up in big situations and did nothing in that series. Kotsay scored the tying run in our epic comeback in game 5 after doubling. What did Lowrie and Ellsbury do? Maybe they cost us the series. It is just dumb.

Now if you can tell me what personnel move the Sox can make that will help (and is realistic from the standpoint of the other team), let’s here it.

by Buzzy on Jul 20, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Even though you didn't actually mean that Lowrie cost us the series, I'm going to point out...

that he had a broken wrist. The fact that he was even playing is amazing.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Jul 20, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions

The Offense is slumping big time

Look at Bay stats this mounth:
13 games, 41 AB, 21 Ks!
Drew stats:
11 games, 45 AB, 15 Ks for a .629 OPS.
When you’re getting this kind of production from your leadoff and 5th hitters, you expect your offense to slump.
Let’s hope they get their s***t together so we could get this offense clicking!!

"It's designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything is new again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops, and leaves you to face the fall alone". A. Bartlett Giamatti

by radiohix on Jul 19, 2009 9:51 AM EDT reply actions

Lowell....

Needs to show that he can stay healthy and be productive for the rest of the season…he’s the one that is going to be seeing less playing time if the Sox pick someone up.

by upCHUCK on Jul 19, 2009 9:53 AM EDT reply actions

If Theo is to be believed, expect a quiet deadline

This is from the Globe:

With no obvious need on his roster and no prominent problems in the clubhouse (remember last year?), general manager Theo Epstein intimated yesterday the Red Sox will have a mostly quiet trade deadline. And, without naming this season’s most high-profile potential trade chip or addressing him directly, Epstein built an argument against acquiring Blue Jays starter Roy Halladay.

"I don’t think we have one glaring weakness, which I think speaks to the great job the players on this club have been doing in the first half,’’ he said. "At the same, I think there are opportunities to get better. Exactly which opportunities we pursue or try to pursue relates probably more to health than anything else.

"We want to create as much depth and redundancy as we possibly can. If you don’t address depth before July 31 or in some cases in August, then you’re left without an opportunity to do so down the stretch and to help the team, we hope, in another postseason.’’

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jul 19, 2009 10:24 AM EDT reply actions

Great, sounds like we will “hope” Lowell is healthy and “hope” Kotsay can do the job at first. Didn’t we see how well that worked last October?

Lowrie is a question mark, what if he goes down again? Then we are putting too much trust into Green.

They need a hitter.

MODERATOR

by gizmosandy on Jul 19, 2009 11:30 AM EDT reply actions

Every team "needs" something

It’s easy to say they “need” a hitter. OK, name the player? Is that player available? What do you give up?

Theo isn’t going to mortgage the future for a slight upgrade this year.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jul 19, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Branyan
A-Gonz
Aubrey Huff
Victor Martinez
Prince Fielder

There are all kinds of names you can add to the list. None of us know who is available or who is not.
I know that we need offense and can move pitching to do it w/out giving away the farm.

MODERATOR

by gizmosandy on Jul 19, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions

Of those players, probably only Huff is available

And the Sox won’t give up anything good to get him.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jul 19, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions

You nor I know who is available.

MODERATOR

by gizmosandy on Jul 19, 2009 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions

Hence "probably."

Fielder’s on a contender, VMart costs way too much, Huff’s in our division and hasn’t been nearly as good as last year, AGon won’t be traded for anything less than a full team’s worth of good prospects.
Branyan depends on if they M’s fall out of it by the deadline.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Jul 19, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Victor Martinez:
According to Ken Rosenthal:

The only way the Indians will move left-hander Cliff Lee and/or catcher Victor Martinez is if they are overwhelmed.

Peter Gammons says:

Indians management does not want to trade Martinez because of his leadership and people skills.

Martinez is 30-years old, and signed relatively cheaply through 2010. The Indians don’t have to move him. They seem not to want to move him—and there’s no way the Sox would “overwhelm” Cleveland to get a 30-year old player who will be a FA after 2010.

Adrian Gonzalez:
He isn’t on the trading block, according to ESPN.com’s Jorge Arangure.

Ken Rosenthal believes if the Padres move Gonzalez, it’ll be in the off-season.

See the Rosenthal link for reasons why Fielder and Huff aren’t available either. Rosenthal believes the Brewers may be in the hunt for Roy Halladay (although they don’t have the prospects and Halladay may not want to got here). But if they want Halladay, why would they trade Fielder?

As for Russell Branyan, he’s 33-years old and signed cheaply ($1.4 million plus incentives). Seattle is only 4 games back. Why would they move him? I’m not sure Theo would want him unless he came cheaply. Branyan is a pretty bad 1B, with a high K-rate and poor on-base skills. He is having a career year offensively.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jul 19, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions

Every year players get moved that were not speculated on in the media. The media is constantly manipulated by MLB teams. Fielder’s name is included in my list because he is a Boras client and the Brewers will not be able to retain him @ the $$$’s he will command.
Anything is a possibility. You nor I work in the front office for any MLB team, so anything we say is fanatic driven speculation.

MODERATOR

by gizmosandy on Jul 20, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions

The Brewers are 3 games out of 1st in a weak division. They are 3.5 games back in the Wild Card. Chances are, they’re not sellers. Furthermore, he fact that Fielder is a Boras client who will want big money makes it less likely that Theo would be interested in him.

In fact, 11 teams in the NL are either in a playoff spot or within 6 games of a playoff spot. In the AL, 9 teams are either sitting in a playoff spot or within 7.5 games.

Sure, anything is possible. Nick Green could hit 55 HR in August. But, you have to look at what is likely. None of the players you mentioned are likely to be moved. The Sox generally don’t make big personnel moves during the season. The Manny and Nomar moves are the exceptions. Manny wanted out and was disruptive. Nomar was crippled and the Sox needed a SS.

There is little out there—and even less that the Sox would want. None of the players you mentioned are available, and few would likely interest the Sox. They aren’t going to trade the farm for an incremental improvement. The Sox FO is way too smart for that.

What you call “fanatic driven speculation” is fans saying get this or that player. What I am talking about is far different. I am talking about what is likely to happen. You seem not to understand that. This is the 6th year Theo has been the GM. I think one can take an educated guess regarding how the Sox FO functions at this point.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jul 20, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions

We have plenty of Boras clients

And what does ur lineup look like next year if we do not make a move?
Scary.

MODERATOR

by gizmosandy on Jul 20, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions

Assuming they re-sign Bay

It looks pretty similar. Also, I never said the Sox wouldn’t make off-season moves. Theo’s track record shows that he is more willing to deal in the off-season.

Boras clients on the Sox: Tek, Drew, Dice-K, and Ells. Did I miss anyone?

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jul 20, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions

thats a good # no?

if he is going to make a move in the winter why not now?

MODERATOR

by gizmosandy on Jul 20, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions

Not really

(1) Ellsbury was a Sox draft pick. Boras had little leverage. MY guess is the Sox will hold onto him until he is close to free agency and then probably let him walk if they can’t lock him up (which is hard to do with Boras clients).
(2) Most of the cost of Dice-K was in the posting fee (again, nothing to do with Boras). Once the Sox got the rights to Matsuzaka, they had the upper hand in contract negotiations.
(3) Tek had a take-it-ot-leave-it offer. He has had a bit of a bounce back season. Let’s see what Boras does with the option year.
(4) No other team was really in on JD Drew. The Sox offered much more than the Dodgers.

The Teixeira negotiations may have soured the Sox FO on Boras. We’ll see. But, in general, it’s not smart to acquire Boras clients close to their FA year. They almost always test the market.

Prince Fielder will make $11 million next year. He has one more arb year (easily more than $11 million), then he’s a FA. The Sox aren’t going to trade their young, cheap players for an expensive short-term fix.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jul 20, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions

Agree.....but

But Jason Varitek (near the end of his career), Mike Lowell (ditto), David Ortiz (ditto), J.D. Drew (notorious underachiever), and Jason Bay (no Manny with the bat and apparently seeking a ridiculous contract) are not exactly strong points with this team. Shortstop also is shaky.

Make no mistake, Theo: there ARE weak spots on this team, more than you care to admit, (at least in public.)

by ccthemovieman on Jul 19, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions

For THIS year though, we are set, minus one small piece or two.

Almost all of those guys have replacements waiting in the minors.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bdalebs on Jul 19, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Not to mention we may need our minor leaguers later

When all of those guys you listed are gone, most of them after next year, and we may need to make a trade to replace them. I’d rather save our system for next year, and instead merely upgrade the bench a little.

by South Coast Ghost on Jul 20, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions

Another thing that is not talked about

The Sox by not having Bay re-signed have put themselves in a bad spot. If they go into the winter and he leaves, then we are really in trouble. At that point, we will have to give up even more, than perhaps we would right now to get a hitter. Teams will know Theo and comp. are desperate. Or they will have to over-pay Boras and Holliday ?

MODERATOR

by gizmosandy on Jul 19, 2009 1:02 PM EDT reply actions