Game 69: Green goes gonzo
by Randy Booth on Jun 22, 2009 12:34 AM EDT
in Game Stories
56 comments
Braves vs Red Sox coverage
Braves vs Red Sox recap
Nick Green is a game-winning monster of a shortstop.
Green hit a walkoff solo home run in the 9th inning to give the Sox a 6-5 win over the Braves on Sunday, Father's Day.
David Ortiz also hit his 6th home run of the year in the first inning. Ortiz and Mark Kotsay each had two hits. Ortiz (2), Green, Jason Bay, J.D. Drew and George Kottaras had RBIs in the win.
Tim Wakefield started for the Sox and did just OK in the start. He went 6.2 innings and gave up nine hits, four runs, no walks and struck out two. Jonathan Papelbon earned the win with a rough 9th inning -- two walks and a hit. He didn't allow a runner to score, though.
Braves' manager Bobby Cox and Chipper Jones were ejected in the 7th inning. They didn't quite like the umpire's decisions and got booted.
Another good win for the Sox. The offense was pretty good today and it's nice to see the No. 8 hitter come up big. Green is hitting .293 on the season now. The Red Sox are now 31-13 with Green as the team's starting shortstop. Is it any more evident now? Julio Lugo can no longer be on this team. He can no longer take starts away from Green. With Jed Lowrie on the verge of coming back, it's even more of a reason to try and trade Lugo (although that's unlikely) or cut him.
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Red Sox are going to win 100 games this season
"Hey we got a lot in common here... I'm gonna rape you"
by MerryGoByeBye on Jun 22, 2009 1:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
In the poll over the weekend
Nearly 90% of respondents expect that Lugo will not be featured on the Sox’s roster after the All-Star Break.
by lone1c on Jun 22, 2009 1:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That would bring a healthy smile across RSN, and OTM
by Brad West on Jun 22, 2009 5:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
Although people are expecting Lowrie to take over SS, I think a Lowrie/Green platoon may be just what the doctor ordered for treating the revolving door that’s been the Sox shortstop position the last few years.
by lone1c on Jun 22, 2009 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What we should have done
Is given Orlando Cabrara some money.
by jcorye1 on Jun 22, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We made out well by letting OC go
(1) He isn’t a great player.
(2) We got Ellsbury and Lowrie with the compensation picks for letting him go.
We won just as many WS without OC as we won with him.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jun 22, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would not have helped us this year...
OC has been much worse than Lugo/Green offensively and not great defensively either.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Jun 23, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its official:
Nick Green is our SS of the future!
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Jun 22, 2009 1:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
30 YEARS YOUNG!
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Jun 22, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
Well played.
"Hey we got a lot in common here... I'm gonna rape you"
by MerryGoByeBye on Jun 22, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Nick Green/Lugo situation is a lot more complicated
What are you gonna do with Lugo? Nobody is going to trade for him, so I think everyone should just accept that as fact. Maybe if he has a reasonable contract you could of moved him. And even if they could find someone to accept Lugo, Theo would have to eat a huge part of that deal + trade prospects to get rid of him, which would be foolish.
So what to do? You cannot demote him to AAA, cannot trade him, and he has 09, 10 contracts and an vesting option for 2011(2400 PA from 2007-2010 + 600 PA 2010.) Thats $18 million guaranteed with a potential $27 million.
I highly doubt the Red Sox will release him and eat the entire contract. So someone must go between Baldelli, Kotsay (not gonna happen), Green and Kottaras (not gonna happen).
In truth I think Nick Green is more likely to be moved or sent down to AAA than Lugo’s outright release. They have options with Green and I just dont see Theo eating $18 million.
by SoxAcumen on Jun 22, 2009 11:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The money owed Lugo is a problem
However, the Sox could place him on waivers. No team is likely to claim Lugo After he clears, he can be sent down.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jun 22, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed completely
I think this is less complicated than before. The Sox clearly realize that Lugo holds no value for them. He can move in the field, and he can’t run (making him useless even as a bench player). I would be shocked if the Sox don’t do exactly what DD suggests.
by Buzzy on Jun 22, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Make him sell hamburgers til he pays off his debt to Red Sox Nation.
Meh, he’d probably misfire the mustard and drop all the buns.
by jcorye1 on Jun 22, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that how it works?
I thought if we sent him down he could refuse the assignment, even if he clears waivers?
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Jun 22, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he can refuse
Just like Papi could refuse if the Red Sox put him on waivers as well.
by SoxAcumen on Jun 22, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the problem is Lugo's service time and contract
not exposure to waivers.
If he has the necessary service or his contract states he cannot be sent to the minors without his approval, which I am assuming he has one or both, Lugo can refuse to go even if he clears waivers.
by SoxAcumen on Jun 22, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, he can
If he refuses to go to the minors, he becomes a FA. Either way, the Sox will be on the hook for his salary. By waiving him, they free up a roster space.
You can find a pretty good explanation of the rules here.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jun 22, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lugo
Has been good with the bat this year. Yes his fielding has been horrendous, but it’s still a small sample of him, and he’s never been this bad with the glove over the course of an entire season. If he plays league average defense and continues hitting like he has been he’ll be a valuable asset going forward.
by Gnick on Jun 22, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand what you are saying
but it looks like his knees make him less valuable. It looks like he can’t move in the field. He can’t run (1 SB) so that limits his bench value-he used to be a stolen base threat. We would have 3 SS, which is not needed, and he really has limited pinch run/infield utility at this stage. It is true that his offensive numbers are fine this year in a limited stretch (300/373/400), but Green has been much more effective in the field, despite his early problems, and Green and Lowrie are better both in the field and probably at the plate at this stage. If we can free up a roster spot, that can be used more effectively, I am all for it.
by Buzzy on Jun 22, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Right now, Green is more versatile. Lugo is clearly not 100%. Going forward for the second-half, Green gives the Sox more than Lugo will (even if Green has been clearly playing over his head).
The Sox could DL Lugo. If he clears waivers and would accept a demotion to the minors, Lugo can be called up when healthy later thias season or try to make the team next year.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jun 22, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this will be the ultimate solution.
Dice-K him.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jun 22, 2009 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep Lugo!!!
Who are we going to blame for our losses? THE Corpse?
"Hey we got a lot in common here... I'm gonna rape you"
by MerryGoByeBye on Jun 22, 2009 2:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I was going to leave this alone, but now that you've brought it up...
Why is the stat about how many games we’ve won or lost with either player at SS brought up so much? Would it not be so much easier to use a stat like WAR that actually tells us if they are contributing or just happen to be in games at the right/wrong time?
It shows the same basic result (Nicky’s WAR: 0.8, Lugo’s WAR: 0.0), but still.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 22, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would my father's day present of a Red Sox Shirt
with Lugo’s name and number on the back become more valuable if Lugo is waived/traded. I could use the money.
by NG on Jun 22, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not DIY-edit the shirt?
Remove the L,U, and O from the shirt, get some tshirt transfers and create an N to place beside the G, creating a #23 NG shirt.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 22, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oooo.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jun 22, 2009 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Something like this?
Also, NG, I might have just found what your icon’s going to be. :)
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 22, 2009 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still like my suggestion for NG's icon.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jun 23, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not just yelling at any random cloud(s).
My main anger is against the original momentum suckers that I saw hurting the team last year: Lugo, Varitek, and Wakefield. Now, I stand behind my anti-Lugo stance, and my anti-Varitek stance is playing out in the clutch as he begins his slide to < 200 average. Wakefield somehow fooled me this year with his fountain of youth discovery. However, I still feel he is an unreliable commodity in any big game, and as more time goes by, the inevitible aging slide will catch up with him.
by NG on Jun 23, 2009 7:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where's the aging slide? It looks like it hasn't even started yet.
His WAR’s the last six seasons: 1.9, 2.7, 1.7, 2.7, 2.0, and so far this year 1.5.
But if it makes you happy to believe that Wakefield has been sucking momentum for years, far be it from me to stop you at this point. Just please enjoy the cognitive dissonance of knowing that your momentum-sucking Wakefield has been at or above league average for each of the last eight seasons.
by lone1c on Jun 23, 2009 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jun 23, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+2
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 23, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I'll do that with the NG23 thing as a border.
There’s some space around the clipping for it.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 23, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey SoxAcumen
did you see Farrell’s comments today on the WBC and Dice-K? Should be interesting reading:
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009/06/farrell_offers.html
by Buzzy on Jun 22, 2009 5:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah
i might have to eat some crow on this one.
I will say this: most of the pitchers who did play in the WBC are not having problems. Gammons claims that Dice-K’s injury could be substantial and pretty serious, but again was that the WBC’s fault? or Dice-K’s since 95% of all the pitchers who played in the WBC have had no problems at all.
by SoxAcumen on Jun 22, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WBC is a huge problem:
Team Japan was pitching Dice FAR more than other countries were pitching their players. Also don’t forget a lot of the national team players are non-MLB. Dice was pitching upwards of 200 pitches per start at times, and he pitched a HELL of a lot of innings. I for one am not surprised at his performance. Also, I am a fine of Dice-K as well, because last year he was downright nasty, and who didn’t cheer when he got that hit against the Rockies?
Bottom line: He pitched more than most other pitchers at the classic. I think there should be a pitch count rule similar to that of the all-star game, but the problem is, many of these countries view the tournament like the Olympics or the World Cup: It’s for national glory.
by BHeebs on Jun 22, 2009 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait, you're not that guy who had the Bottom Line blog, are you?
I’d suggest that the WBC should be an amateur thing, but then how would it be different from the Olympics? Maybe the MLB needs to change it’s foreign expansion plans to something along the lines of making ST international. Have the Grapefruit League expand into the Caribbean, Europe, and Africa; the Cactus League would extend into South America, Australia, and Asia. Not the best plan, but at least then we don’t have players out from team control.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 22, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I'm not the same guy
And unfortunately, I think that no idea surrounding the WBC is the best idea as far as MLB goes. Unless you institute international leagues as a part of MLB and change the entire format of the majors so that the World Series really becomes a WORLD series… but that would be FAR more complicated. It makes sense in my mind at 2am though.
WBC is one of those things that looks fantastic on paper, but not in practice. Not yet anyway. Who knows, it could be successful in a few years.
There are two theories on hitting the Knuckleball. Unfortunately, neither of them work. ~Charlie Lau
by BHeebs on Jun 23, 2009 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get what you're saying.
I think the travel costs would be enormous for a full season of international play though – that’s why I limited it to ST, when the two leagues don’t meet each other, with a much shorter time span.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 23, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Dice-K was pitching upwards of 200 pitches per start"?
You mean this year? Source? I find that hard to believe.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Jun 23, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he means with side sessions included.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 23, 2009 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair
I don’t think the WBC can be the entire story. The entire Japanese approach to pitching differs drastically from ours. From the 6 man rotation, to the way they prepare for the season, it is very different. Who knows how this has affected Dice-K’s health. He has a lot of milage on that arm for his age.
However the difference between other guys and Dice at the WBC is stark. For example, the US was much more careful with pitch counts. Their side sessions were monitored, and no one went as deep in the series as Japan. Dice-K was running huge pitch counts in mid March, not following the strength regimine the Sox have their pitchers follow (he could not be monitored by the Sox), throwing the notoriously crazy Japanese side sessions, and probably pitching harder than guys like Oswalt who cares less about winning for national pride than Dice-K does. In all, a prescription for problems. I am all for the Sox putting a WBC Ban into future contracts.
by Buzzy on Jun 23, 2009 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Green is better than Nomar ever was…hands down
"Well let me just quote the late-great Colonel Sanders, who said...'I'm too drunk to taste this chicken.' "
-Ricky Bobby
by nepats108 on Jun 22, 2009 5:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey now.
Wouldn’t go there quite yet – wait for him to at least nail down the job to himself.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 22, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Frustrating outing by Buchholz in Durham
No control what so ever! His final line: 3.2 IP 4 Hits, 2 Runs, 1 ER, 5 BB, 4 Ks
he threw 83 pitchs 43 for strikes
I blame his counterpart Kazmir for giving him the desease!
The only Red Sox fan in a country where nobody cares about basball!
by radiohix on Jun 22, 2009 8:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Eh. It's gonna happen once in a while.
Even an ace like Santana blows chunks once in a while. However, given that he gave up five walks but only one earned run, that’s actually a positive sign for Buchholz. Last year, he would have probably had 3 or 4 ERs with that many walks in less than four innings.
by lone1c on Jun 22, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buchholz has walked 10 in his last 3 games, pitching just 12 innings.
So it’s not entirely an isolated incident.
by USG on Jun 22, 2009 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Frustration setting in?
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 23, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lowrie's first two rehab starts
Yesterday’s game was pretty good: 3 PA’s, leading to 2 BB’s and an RBI (although going 0-for-1).
Today’s game, not so hot: 3 PA’s, no hits. However, no strikeouts, which means he’s putting the ball into play.
by lone1c on Jun 22, 2009 9:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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