Trades: Oh the Realities!
The title is a bit tongue-in-cheek. I don't mean to rein in Randy. I kind of mean to rein in everyone else with some "facts" with regard to trades, real and imagined.
1. Adrian Gonzalez isn't walking through that door. Hey. I love the dream as much as anyone, and it's ridiculous to say that he's untouchable or unavailable. But when his "availability" is contingent on us sending San Diego 8-12 of our top 20 prospects, it starts to lose a little bit of its luster. I'm not interested in that kind of deal, and I very much doubt that Theo would be interested in said deal as well.
2. If Adam Dunn walks through that door, it will most likely mean that someone else who has meant a lot to this organization over the last several years will have played his last game as a Red Sox. I'm not saying we won't be brought to the point of considering this, I'm just saying that the Sox aren't going to trade for Dunn and use him in the field more than once a month or so. Somewhat ditto for Victor Martinez and Mark DeRosa in that they make a lot more sense on a team that doesn't have David Ortiz than one that does.
3. When it comes to defensive upgrades at SS, Jack Wilson is more likely than anyone else. This is partially good, because Wilson's relatively high salary for an all-glove no-hit SS means that Pittsburgh will probably be receiving the baseball equivalent of a wooden nickel.
4. We can imagine that many of our minor leaguers have trade value, but here are the ones who actually do: Lars Anderson, Clay Buchholz, Michael Bowden, Nick Hagadone, Ryan Kalish, Luis Exposito, Stolmy Pimental, Josh Reddick, Mark Wagner, and to extend a bit to the bigs, Justin Masterson and Daniel Bard. Here are examples of minor leaguers with negligible or no trade value: Jonathan Van Every, Kris Johnson, Dusty Brown, Travis Denker, Chris Carter, and Jeff Bailey. Neither list is all-inclusive, but a good rule of thumb is this: If you can easily imagine parting with the player, then it's probably easy for the opposing club to decline such a trade, unless they would have monetary reasons to do so (the aforementioned Wilson.).
5. Nick Green and Julio Lugo provide acceptable offense from the 9 spot and the SS position in general. Names like Miguel Tejada and Michael Young make no sense for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that neither would solve the actual problem at SS: fielding.
6. While Miguel Cabrera is a fantastic pipe-dream, that Detroit firesale we were hearing about all winter won't come to fruition as long as the team is performing this well. Adam Everett could be available, I suppose, though I imagine Detroit would look for an NL team first if they make that decision. Ditto for Texas, who would have no real motivation to trade a player like Omar Vizquel right now. He might be a bit of a luxury for them as a utilityman, but he's a very affordable luxury for a team in 1st place.
7. Jed Lowrie is coming back. My hope is that they're going to be conservative in getting him back on the field, but he will be back, even conservatively, probably by the end of the month. Wilson might be the only appropriate acquisition we could make happen by then.
8. Me no wants to trade with Oakland. This isn't a fact, I suppose, but Billy Beane very rarely loses trades. The team, if any, that gets Matt Holliday from him this summer could very easily live to regret it. On that note, however, Matt Holliday is probably the reason that the Sox haven't been as aggressive extending Jason Bay as some think that we should. If Holliday can turn it on and prove he can hit in that big park in Oakland and in the AL, then the Sox will probably make a push for him in the offseason. Say what you want about Bay being a better player, but Holliday is definitely better defensively, and I have to imagine that's something going through the minds of everyone in the FO.
9. We're not getting a prospect back from Brad Penny. A role player is likely, one who would fill the hole of good defensive SS or of reliable RH 4th OF. That's still a good trade, because in a hypothetical world, we'd need that role player more than we would need a 5th starter when we still have Smoltz, Buch, and Bowden yet to start games in the MLs this season.
10. We've got some albatross contracts, just like many other teams. Spin it however you want: Julio Lugo and David Ortiz have negative value. If they depart, it'll be for nothing but some contract relief. Possibly. We're not going to be unloading J.D. Drew or Daisuke anytime soon either. Drew is a positive offensively and defensively, despite his real or imagined fragility and contract status. Daisuke would be giving up far too soon on an intriguing if still sometimes (all right, often) frustrating starting pitcher whose CONTRACT (not total cost, CONTRACT) is very reasonable from the Sox' point of view.
11. If a BIG move is coming this summer, it's probably going to involve something few of us would be emotionally ready for, such as the previously alluded to release of David Ortiz or a possible trade of Jonathan Papelbon. React in surprise if you must, but Paps will be 29 to begin next season, and while I don't think he'll be actively shopped, we're kidding ourselves if we believe that Theo wouldn't be prepared to go with Saito or Bard or maybe even Masterson in the closer role if someone puts a great offer on the table for Paps, who is looking for top dollar at every opportunity.
12. I guess that's all. Maybe I'm blowing smoke as much as the next guy, but I think it's important to be reasonable and thoughtful when thinking about trade rumors, especially this early in the season.
3 recs |
87 comments
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Comments
Response
1. True
2. I’m cool with saying farewell to Ortiz so long as we don’t also say farewell to Bowden or Buck. The fact is that he’s not a contributor, and as much as I’ve loved Papi throughout the years, my loyalty is to the team.
3. We don’t need to trade for a defensive upgrade at SS. Lowrie, Lowrie, Lowrie.
4. That’s a pretty good list, except that I’d say Wagner doesn’t have much value right now because of his ‘08 season. Teams want to see more before they’d be willing to give much for him. After a full year, sure. Otherwise, yeah, you’re pretty much right.
5. Agreed, though Lugo’s offense is frustratingly inopportune, somehow.
6. Agreed, though both teams could easily fall off, Cabrera is about as likely to walk
through that door as Gonzalez.
7. Wheeee
8. I expect the Sox will choose to stick with the proven Fenway commodity in Jason Bay, but I also expect them to wait till Holliday’s numbers improve so they can use the competition to drive down Bay’s price some.
9. I wouldn’t be so sure we’re not. We don’t need any role players right now. We can’t very well keep 3 SS on the team, we’ve got Rocco, Kotsay, and Kottaras on the team, and unless we’re looking to DFA Papi or Lugo, we don’t have room for said role player.
10. Agreed. Luckily, those albatross contracts don’t last too much longer…
11. I dunno why you think we’re not emotionally ready for those. Ortiz has frustrated Sox Fans all year long, even if they feel horrible that it’s happening. And Paps has earned a bit of ire himself. Not only is he not the same old Paps, but even the same old Paps was demanding a crazy ass contract and wanting max FA money. I’ve long since accepted that the Sox aren’t resigning him once he hits the market.
12. Nah, most of what you said was pretty spot on.
by USG on Jun 2, 2009 4:27 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I'm not sure they wouldn't replace Rocco on the roster.
If someone like (not him exactly) Reed Johnson were available to be acquired as a 4th OF. Rocco’s fragility has been an issue several times already this season.
"Are you a real doctor, or a doctor like Dr. Pepper is a doctor?"
by Allen Chace on Jun 2, 2009 5:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Penny
I would expect a lower-tier prospect. Something similar to the Kottaras for Wells deal.
Any team that is looking to acquire Penny will most likely not want to weaken their major league roster at all.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Jun 2, 2009 5:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The last rumor I saw was Jason Donald
From the Phils. His hitting lines in the minors are pretty good, until this year at AAA, though the age at which he compiled them and his abilities as a defender? might make him an ideal utilityman.
Probably satisfies both the “lower-tier prospect” and “role player” thoughts, though he might be the only one.
Your point about teams not wanting to weaken their ML roster for Penny is absolutely correct.
"Are you a real doctor, or a doctor like Dr. Pepper is a doctor?"
by Allen Chace on Jun 2, 2009 5:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jason Donald would be great.
He’s much better than a low-tier prospect.
But given the Phillies stating they’re after an “Impact Pitcher” ala Erik Bedard or Jake Peavy, I don’t see it happening.
I expect a medium-high potential guy who has thus far failed to show many results, around 21-22 years old. But Donald would be just great.
by USG on Jun 2, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Impact +
They really do need an "Impact Pitcher " Hamels isn’t getting it done yet. I think they need a couple more pitchers beyond that too (not that they can afford to trade for three pitchers) but that rotation is horrible, Moyer is showing his age, Myers to the DL, Chan Ho Park has been inconsistent and is now in the BP, Blanton isn’t as good as Penny is right now. I think Penny is an upgrade on that team over everyone except Hamels. If they can’t get their Impact Pitcher I think Penny would be a great option for him, assuming the Sox actually are trying to trade him.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
by Rogue Nine on Jun 3, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and rec'd.
This should be required reading for anyone suggesting any kind of trade.
I would just add:
13. Hanley Ramirez is not available. He is only making $5.5M this year. The Marlins have no reason to trade him unless some other young, cost-controlled, MLB superstar is available. (basically Evan Longoria, and thats it). Most likely we will be talking about Hanley after the 2010 season or trade deadline 2011.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Jun 2, 2009 5:31 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Totally forgot to include him in the post, BT
Thanks. Quite part of the point I was trying to make.
"Are you a real doctor, or a doctor like Dr. Pepper is a doctor?"
by Allen Chace on Jun 2, 2009 5:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec'd.
We got great value for him the first time – what makes anyone think that he’ll be able to return cheaply?
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 2, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Paps and Ortiz
The reason the Sox would be reluctant to part with Ortiz and ESPECIALLY Papelbon is partially a marketing thing. There are too many products of them around and too much iconic support. LIke-the Yankees releasing Derek Jeter on a bad year? Mariano!?!?!?
"We're not going to give up," It doesn't happen, so who cares? There's always next year. It's not like it's the end of the world."
by revigik on Jun 2, 2009 6:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the Sox have to much to worry about with marketing guys.
Youk and Bay seem to sell just fine. Petey is quickly becoming the new face of the team. Ellsbury can’t seem to NOT be popular, and Daniel Bard really could just about replace Paps. He’s no Riverdancer, but we also don’t get the unfortunate news stories about him wanting 20 million dollars from us.
by USG on Jun 2, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus, Papi can stay on a coach if he wants.
Also, of the female Sox fans I know, none of them whistle for Paps or Papi – usually Lowell, Tek, and my sister likes Youk (not sure if she likes HIM, his name, his bald head and goatee combo, or him as a player).
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 2, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Theo doesn't care about marketing
I am going out on a limb here, but Nomar’s name was a rallying cry
Pedro was the face of the franchise in the late 1990s early 2000s
Johnny Damon was the dreamboat
Manny was the bad ass compliment to Papi
Theo got rid of ALL of them.
Papi and Paps will be gone to help the team
Theo has the sentimentality of Michael Corleone
by SullyBaseball on Jun 2, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Although
He did just sign V-Tek to an above market value contract too. I agree with you though.
by drabidea on Jun 2, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And it's worked out pretty damn well.
Maybe he has some defensive stats we don’t. And, the best marketing is winning.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 2, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice post, Allen
Rec’d.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jun 2, 2009 7:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Very good
The only issue I have is with the concept of getting “contract relief” for Ortiz, Lugo, or both. I doubt the Sox would get much value for either of them right now. They’re just not valuable enough to other organizations to expect them to pick up even a third of either contract in a deal. I think that what a DFA of Ortiz (or trade for Lugo) would merely provide roster relief by opening up a spot for a potentially more valuable contributor to join the team.
by lone1c on Jun 2, 2009 7:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and #7
I suspect Lowrie’s use in the field as a SS will depend greatly on how he does during his rehab stints in the next few weeks. If he shows himself to be the Lowrie of 2008 who handled almost everything the Sox (and opponents) threw his way with relative ease, he’ll be back in the field on an aggressive schedule. If there’s severe trouble with his fielding or his hitting, the schedule might be pushed back a bit.
by lone1c on Jun 2, 2009 7:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol, Cabrera.
You guys are hilarious. Even if the Tigers were 10-38 right now, Cabrera is the one Tiger that would never be traded. Good lord.
by rcpratt on Jun 2, 2009 8:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thats why he called him a "pipe-dream"
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Jun 2, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The post also implies that Cabrera could/would be traded if the Tigers were not in contention, which is not true. Unless your name is Bill Simmons.
by rcpratt on Jun 2, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I cant stand Bill Simmons
the guy whines way too much. His articles come off like he wishes the Red Sox never won the WS in 2004 and 2007 so he would have more to write about.
by SoxAcumen on Jun 2, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've heard Bill Simmons accused of a lot of things.
But not being happy for the Sox/Pats/Celts success is definitely not one of them. You are thinking of Dan Shaunassey.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Jun 2, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually
I do sense a bit of what SoxAcumen is saying in Simmons’ writing.
by Buzzy on Jun 2, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
He got the book out of it, and now he seems like he wants to go back.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 2, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno.
I’ve been reading Simmons since his old blog and that is not the sense I get at all. First of all, his favorite sport has always been basketball. He has probably written more about basketball than everything else combined. The thing that annoys me about Simmons is that he moved to L.A. and is kind of an “in” crowd and writes all Hollywood and shit.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Jun 2, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huff?
What about the possibility of getting Aubrey Huff? I just wrote about that in my blog at www.4sportboston.com
by 4SportBoston.com on Jun 2, 2009 8:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Huff
seems not out of the realm of possibility. Don’t think tranactions are too frequent within the AL East, though, and Huff is not overwhelming, but it is possible…
by Buzzy on Jun 2, 2009 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jun 2, 2009 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As both a Sox and Astros fan (live in Houston, grew up on the Cape), Huff was a decent player the year the ’Stros had him. An improvement over what seemed an eternally slumping Morgan Ensberg, but nothing really spectacular.
"He walked 18."
"New league record!"
"Struck out 18."
"Another new league record! In addition he hit the sportswriter, the public address announcer, the bull mascot twice...also new league records! But, Joe, this guy's got some serious shit."
by Elephande on Jun 2, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great post
I agree with essentially all of it. One thing to keep an open mind about, however, is the possible trading of Dice-K at some point. Dice is actually signed to a very cheap contract (a plus both for us but also trading partners). Until the problems of this early portion of the season, he was an ultimate sell-high as he had one of the luckiest seasons I can recall last year. Regardless, If he can show he is healthy he seems a very valuable chip. On the plus side, he is chronologically young. He is a draw to certain fan blocks (eg west coast), his numbers are decent and he is relatively cheap. The Sox must know that there is a ton of mileage on that arm. Probably wont happen (well, he is cheap and the Sox have worked hard to build good PR in Japan), but I would not be shocked if it is seriously considered by the brass.
by Buzzy on Jun 2, 2009 8:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Daisuke's value extends beyond the field
Not only in marketing which is obvious, but also in recruiting. If you think about it, the Sox have had a leg up on every Japanese signing because of Daisuke. Tazawa actually took less money to play for the Sox, partly to play with his idol. Every interview I’ve seen of Japanese little leaguers has them saying their dream is to play for the Red Sox.
I’m not saying he can’t be traded, I just think those facts increase his value a little beyond his numbers on the field.
by BigRedDog42 on Jun 2, 2009 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Papelbon trade
The chance of a Papelbon trade has seemed increasingly more possible as this season moves on. He is not irreplaceable in the pen and has not been the instant save he was of previous years. His closer confidence is becoming a bit too much for his own good, as he’s now attempting to get through entire innings without throwing one pitch out of the strike zone or one off speed pitch.
He could be a good trading chip as teams always need bullpen help. It would be a sad end to a great relationship but an interesting possibility.
by BigRedDog42 on Jun 2, 2009 9:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I doubt they'd trade Paps
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jun 2, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not this year at any rate
But if he’s determined to set the record for a FA closer, maybe.
by lone1c on Jun 2, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Love that Drugs shoots down BRD's hopes and dreams so quickly.
Care to elaborate Drugs? Why not?
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 2, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any reports
on where the fuck Paps lost his splitter? I think he may have left it in the bullpen in Cincinnati lat year in interleague…
by Buzzy on Jun 2, 2009 9:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I don’t recall him throwing one this year. As far as I can tell he has had two problems this year. His fastball doesn’t have the pin point control that he did of previous years. He also doesn’t have a dependable secondary pitch. He needs to get his splitter back or improve on his slider, otherwise one pitch isn’t going to cut it.
by drabidea on Jun 2, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless it's a cutter.
We all know that a closer can do pretty damn well with only a cutter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 2, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Coudln't
agree with you more on each and every point.
I think the speculation about guys like Martinez, Johnson, Cust etc is solely contingent on Ortiz being DL’ed and sent to the minors to work things out, and people understand that.
Clearly, if we have David Ortiz on this roster, there’s no room for yet another corner infielder/DH type.
On trading Papelbon, I just think that it’s a ridiculous idea this year, while they’re in World Series contention. I’d be open to the idea, and I would fully expect Theo to listen to offers during the off-season, but to trade your closer when you don’t have an established one (except for Mr. “Who needs Tommy John”? Saito) waiting in the wings would be crazy.
by SouthShoreSox on Jun 2, 2009 12:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Papelbon for Holliday straight up
Who says no?
by Gnick on Jun 2, 2009 12:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
A's
Billy Beane is notorious for not being a big fan of closers. Think of all the teams he has fleeced by trading his closer to them, he will not be looking to be on the other end of one of those fleeces.
by drabidea on Jun 2, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jun 2, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
and Mr. James is not a fan either as far as i know.
at least he was (remember the 2003 season and what a difference a Closer can make in 2004).
even with that 2003/2004 change in the team i think that his mainline (Closers/Closing are more or less overrated) has still relevance when it is about spending.
would Papelbon get that money as a good SP…maybe…but i doubt as a CL he will.
i always wanted him to be a SP but he plays/played an important role for some years now and i am thankful for that.
but i hope he won’t get crazy money from the Sox.
there is coming a lot of promises up in the system and some will be true.
FA would probably mean Paps in Pinstripes and that i do not like too much.
that means Trade sooner or later.
depends when we could get the best reward with Paps closing this postseason still in mind.
but when the price is right pull the trigger even now.
by OilCanBoyd on Jun 2, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's with the format?
And Bard, RamRam, MDC, or Masterson could be closers. Saito too, but I’d rather not use him as a closer. Don’t know why, but he’s still kinda scattered to me.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 2, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Sox could trade him before his contract expires
to another big-market team that would extend his contract.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
by SoxDevil on Jun 2, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd love it.
If it was a fair deal to Oakland, even if they would take a closer.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 2, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Move Daisuke and Ortiz
I find the Papelbon possibilities interesting but not pressing. I believe that Daisuke should be moved to the bullpen and replaced with Daniel Bard. We all know that his reord last year came from orun production and not his superior pitching abilities.
And David Ortiz should be sent to the minors to get his stroke back. It would not be a problem to replace him at tis point in time. Tthese two things could be done now without changing the profile of the team a heck of a lot.
by mounddog on Jun 2, 2009 1:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Daniel Bard was looking like a bust as a starter and only excelled when moved to the bullpen. He is not moving to the rotation. And Dice-K is not leaving the rotation.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Jun 2, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Moving Dice-k
would be an extremely bad move. Right now the Red Sox OWN Japan, every player who either is a FA or a young prospect thinks Red Sox first, for example Junichi Tazawa. This is only bc of Dice-K, he is a hero over there and vets + young kids look up to him. Trading him would be an insult. The Japanese look at this differently than we do. Matsui was tossed around as a potential trade and it made the front page and Matsui said he would rather go back to Japan than accept a trade in shame.
No Dice-K is worth more than we believe. Yu Darvish looks up to him as a mentor as does many potential players, he was the team captain with Ichiro for the WBC.
There is another young 18 year old lefty pitcher who is going to do the same thing as J. Tazawa and scouts like him better…Red Sox are again his first choice.
Lets just keep Dice-K and see if the Red Sox pitching staff can get him back.
by SoxAcumen on Jun 2, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with most everything AC, but
the Brad Penny comment. I think its a very good possibility the Red Sox do get a young prospect from a NL team, but things would have to work out for the Sox. O. Perez still stinking, Phillies unable to get Bedard or Oswalt, etc.
Ive been saying something similar about Paps for a while. The fact that Youk, Lester, and Pedroia locked up long term deals and Paps is sitting out there waiting to cash in (hey if he can get the money good for him), has always been the subject nobody wants to address. There is no way Theo is going to pay a 30 year old closer $15 Million+ for 5 or 6 years, no way. Especially when the Red Sox have Saito, MDC, Masterson and Bard as a potential replacement for the future. So it does make sense to deal him if you have no intention of paying him.
So is this crazy: Paps for Salty + prospects? Texas is in contention and needs pitching.
If we all agree our Bullpen is very nice and there are guys who could close, doesn’t Paps become our best trade chip to fill the spots the Red Sox cannot fill internally?
I know I am the only one, but I still think AG is available in SD. Sorry I am stubborn on this one…LOL.
by SoxAcumen on Jun 2, 2009 2:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not so sure
The Sox aren’t going to move Papelbon this year for three reasons:
(1) He has been one of the top two or three closers in baseball the past few years.
(2) He isn’t a FA until 2012. Why jump the gun?
(3) The Sox are legit contenders. Why would they weaken their pen? You don’t know if RamRam, Oki, Saito, MDC, or Bard can close effectively in the short-term. There’s a lot of pressure in a pennant race, and in Boston in particular. The FO knows Paps can handle it—and he’s been lights out in the playoffs.
Why would the first-place Texas Rangers trade their starting catcher for a closer? They can win the division without Paps and, if they need a closer, they can probably get one without trading their starting catcher. Salty is part of the Rangers’ long-term plans. Paps is a FA in 2012.
Regarding Adrian Gonzalez, he isn’t going to be moved. Forget it. It won’t happen. FOXSports’ Ken Rosenthal was on WEEI today. He said he asked around in San Diego’s FO and was told there was no way Gonzalez would be moved. Here’s why:
(1) He’s young, cheap, and by far their best player.
(2) He’s from San Diego and is Mexican-American, which fits their demographic. In short, he is their most popular player.
Let’s try to assume the other teams want to win as much as the Red Sox do. Try to think of these deals from the other team’s perspective for a change. As Sox fans, we all want to improve our favorite team. The opposing GMs could care less about how many games the Sox win.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jun 2, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that the first two things are what makes him such a good trade piece.
We can get a reliever back along with whomever it is that we’re going after. Buch, Bowden, or Jones could come up too.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 2, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are probably correct about Paps, but if Theo doesnt see him signing, I do think that he will eventually trade him.
All I got DD is what the word is about $$$$. AG costs money and they have no plans on trying to win in the near future. He would get them a Teixeira type package. There are many Mexican American players and nobody is going to Padre games, Mexican, Italian or Russian. IF SD wants to win, they must explore dealing AG, if not they will have 1 awesome player on a 70+ loss team.
by SoxAcumen on Jun 2, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He doesn't cost them much at all right now.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 2, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Padres almost had to file for Bankruptcy with the Divorce settlement
$5million is $5 million.
Either way the Padres are not a few players away from winning in the NL West. They will either have to pull a Hershel Walker or rebuild through the draft and AG will walk when he is a FA.
3-5 years minimum. It makes zero sense to keep AG. Nobody is going to the games, so no revenue, he will sign a huge deal when his contract is up, so why keep him?
by SoxAcumen on Jun 2, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't be so sure
I bet AG easily pays for his contract through merchandise+tickets to justify keeping him. In fact, that is precisely what SD has said. Look, they are actively shopping Peavy (who is more expensive and less popular), but they are very quite on AG, because, as Drugs said, they have flat out said “no.” Get over it ;-).
by Buzzy on Jun 2, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they cannot pay one of the best players in baseball less than half of what we pay Julio Lugo, then they should be contracted.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Jun 2, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On a completely different topic
Is anyone else surprised by the Yankees apparent defensive prowess??
by Buzzy on Jun 2, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup.
I guess we could have expected the great CF defense. But Jeter has been above average my UZR. Weird. Though Teixeira has been below average.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Jun 2, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
Kinda freaking me out. Are they gonna develop a farm next or something?
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 2, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yankees errorless streak
You’ve got to think that Texeira has a lot to do with that. A great 1B can save a lot of errors for his teammates. I would think at least a little of that is that some of their diminishing range prevents them from getting to some balls, but mostly they’re hot and playing good ball, so credit to them & congratulations.
by tommy9central on Jun 2, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not the errorless streak
but the UZRs and the DER that are impressive…
by Buzzy on Jun 3, 2009 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also I dont think Texas can win the division without a trade in 09
Angels are coming.
by SoxAcumen on Jun 2, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As the Texases continue to pull away.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 2, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
gentlemens bet on who wins the AL West?
you take Texas ill take LAA?
by SoxAcumen on Jun 2, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What would be the cost?
I can’t put my icon on the line – it’s gonna change to NG’s preference if Wake has issues at the end of the season.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 2, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Wells
got us Kottaras, maybe we could get someone like that for Penny. Is that the type of player you’re referring to when you say “prospect”?
To me, Penny is the essence of a replaceable, fungible asset, and a team would have to be crazy to give anything more than a B-/B prospect for Penny, which the Red Sox have plenty of lying around anyway.
The biggest advantage to trading Penny will be the roster spot it opens up, not the player he brings back.
by SouthShoreSox on Jun 2, 2009 2:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Holliday
I don’t care if he’s better than Bay defensively, it’s LF and Bay is plenty good enough. Holliday away from Coors Field is a career .280/.350/.800 hitter and is in no way worth the kind of $ Boras is going to rake in from someone. That’s a lower OPS than Brian Daubach’s career number (.814) for comparison. I hope Theo doesn’t have another Drew/Lugo/Texeira man love episode for Holliday.
by tommy9central on Jun 2, 2009 10:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's BA/OBP/OPS?
Thought the .800 was slugging for a second – double take.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 2, 2009 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but
If Holliday had some protection in the linup his numbers wouldn’t be so bad. Bay is reaping the benefits of protection in a lineup. He had decent numbers in Pitt, but not like this. The only problem I have with Holliday is Boras. I would love Ells, Bay, and Holliday in the outfield. However, Boras will drive his contract up based on numbers from Coors Field. Don’t kid yourself Holliday is a gamer, and if the Sox did land him via trade or free agency we will have ourself a strong player in that lineup with protection around him.
When they dug up Big Papi's jersey in Yankee stadium did they happen to find his swing with it!
by Bowdawg on Jun 3, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
one more thing
Don’t read into the home and away thing to much. This year Holliday is batting .250 in Oakland and .303 on away games. I don’t expect him to hit 36 homeruns outside Coors, but he hit .307, .326, .340, .321 the last four years. His heart isn’t in Oakland, if it was he would have signed by now. Coors Field might make a slight difference in batting average, but not much. If you can hit, you can hit. Bottom line, he puts the bat on the ball, and puts in a strong at bat everytime he comes up. If he was a switch hitter, I would say hands down sign him. However, he hits right handed and that would leave our lineup unbalanced. If I had to choose between Bay and Holliday, I take Bay. Bay has proven to handle the pressures so far.
When they dug up Big Papi's jersey in Yankee stadium did they happen to find his swing with it!
by Bowdawg on Jun 3, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bay's righty too.
Unless you’re advocating Holliday to replace Drew, who’s signed through next season. But then why compare Bay and Holliday?
And his OPS+ is way better at home than on the road, even with this season’s flip: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=hollima01&year=Career&t=b#hmvis
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 4, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bay or Holliday
You are correct, Bay and Holliday are right handed. You won’t see both of them in a Red Sox uniform because of that reason. However, if Bay becomes to hard to resign then Holliday would be worth looking at. Unfortunately, we probably will see Holliday in pin stripes next year. Borass knows who has deep pockets and who doesn’t. To recapitulate I just have a hard time understanding that Holliday was only a good ball player because of Coors Field.
When they dug up Big Papi's jersey in Yankee stadium did they happen to find his swing with it!
by Bowdawg on Jun 4, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at the link.
Even though he’s been horrible at Oakland this year, his home OPS+ is still WAY better than his road OPS+.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 5, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Penny
So does Penny for Jack Wilson make any sense? Penny’s got to look pretty attractive to Pittsburgh, he’s reasonably cheap and he’d be no worse than a #3 there.
by tommy9central on Jun 2, 2009 10:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Penny is worth more to a contender.
The Pirates would probably want something longer term.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jun 2, 2009 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I'd want more than a glove in return for Penny.
We’d only need Wilson for like a month-ish until Jed returns.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 2, 2009 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Wilson is the caliber of player we should expect,
but Pittsburg has no use for Penny. He is on a one year deal and they are not contending this year.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Jun 2, 2009 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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