Game 67: What do the Sox do with Dice-K?
Braves vs Red Sox coverage
Braves vs Red Sox recap
Let's not talk about Friday night's 8-2 loss to the Braves. It's in the books. Let's just change the subject straight to Daisuke Matsuzaka.
Here's what his line looked like from the loss: four innings pitched, eight hits, six runs, four walks, two strikeouts and one home run.
Just ugly. No way around that one.
Here's what Dice-K said after the game:
"If I keep going like this, I have no right to be a part of this rotation."
Let's hand it to Dice-K: at least he admits it when he's bad. But he's really on to something. What are the Red Sox going to do? The Sox have a surplus of extra arms just chomping at the bit to get to the bigs in John Smoltz, Clay Buchholz and Michael Bowden. Smoltz will be making his 2009 debut soon (June 25) but he's still just the sixth man in the rotation.
So with Smoltz, Buchholz and Bowden looking in (Smoltz may be in, but not fully) and the idea of a six-man rotation not being able to sustain (really not possible, right?), we look at the weaknesses of the current rotation.
Dice-K, obviously, stands out the most. Josh Beckett, Jon Lester and Tim Wakefield, however, are not going anywhere. Brad Penny has pitched well for the Sox and his future is uncertain: do the Sox hold on to him and use the depth or trade him and get something in return?
Essentially, there are two spots -- at the most -- for Smoltz, Buchholz and Bowden to work their way into the rotation. Penny is still on the fence, but Dice-K ... oh, boy, Dice-K.
Here are the facts regarding the Red Sox and Dice-K:
- The Sox can't trade Dice-K.
- The Sox can't cut Dice-K.
- The Sox can't demote Dice-K.
Two options: place Dice-K on the disabled list for some mysterious reason or put him in the bullpen. Personally, I think the DL is the most likely option at this point. However, I would not be surprised if we see Dice-K in the bullpen come October if the Sox make the playoffs. But before that I just don't really see it happening. A demotion to the bullpen for Dice-K would be a huge slap in the face, although it seems like he understands that.
Do I have a point to all of this? Not exactly. But go ahead and vent and let us know what you would do with Dice-K.
0 recs |
127 comments
|
Comments
Well, if nothing else, he's made the organization's job easier.
He’s said he’s not at 100%. He says he doesn’t deserve to be in the rotation.
We need someone who can pitch. Smoltz is here in 6 days.
by Ben Buchanan on Jun 20, 2009 12:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Dicey, adj.
“Involving or fraught with danger or risk”
At least he’s living up to his name.
I think a DL stint is what the not-really-a-doctor ordered. My theory being that the WBC’s impact on his spring training (including throwing literally 98 pitches in a game situation in mid-March) plus psychological concerns are the root causes of this. He needs go through the ramp-up that pitchers go through in the spring, and he needs to regain his confidence – both of which require time away from the game which the bullpen will not provide. Of course, this also benefits the Sox by subtracting the Dice-K starts and continuing to showcase Penny (for trade or F/A) while giving Smoltz or Buchholz playing time. After all, Dice’s WAR was 0.2 before today’s crumbly turd sandwich, so it literally almost cannot get any worse. Just, for god’s sake, let’s not DL him with “anxiety disorder” like Greene or Willis. It’s the worst disabling malady to ascribe to a player with confidence problems this side of small-dick-itis. I wonder, can one catch channelopathy? (j/k)
That said, I fully expect him to return later this year and make Tito’s post-season roster selection difficult. I’m not so sure I see him in the ‘pen in the regular season though. Dice-K is not someone who starts strong and fades, he starts jittery and settles down. Sounds like a bad option to send in against Cap’n. Tange or Eva Longoria Parker, Jr. with the tying run on second.
Rock me, sexy Jesus...
by nuthinboutnuthin on Jun 20, 2009 12:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Depending on what they do to Matsuzaka, it may not be an issue.
If they put him on the 60-day DL, then with the associated 30-day rehab stint, he wouldn’t necessarily be on the 25-man roster as of August 31, which is the cutoff for playoff rosters (barring injuries).
However, if he’s on the 15-day DL, then he’s required to be added back to the 25-man roster no later than 45 days after the start of the DL assignment. (Fifteen days, plus the 30-day rehab assignment.)
by lone1c on Jun 20, 2009 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just a clarification:
WAR can be negative.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 20, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
…but it never should be for an active player
Rock me, sexy Jesus...
by nuthinboutnuthin on Jun 20, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just saying, since lone1c said it can't be much worse.
I mean, Papi was pretty far in the red for a while.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 20, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My bad, just saw your name above mine.
You missed a chance for a joke – coulda posted a YouTube URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ4axo9rmJY
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 20, 2009 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't have come up with that
I don’t think I’ve even heard of Shaggy, which would make posting a video of him much more difficult.
(I’m a hardcore classical fan—and performer.)
by lone1c on Jun 20, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've just seen the video on one of those VH1 "I Love The..." series.
Always funny. I usually only like rock, anyways.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 21, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how are we so sure
smoltz is going to be good?
maybe a little off topic, but why are we in such a rush to trade penny and send dice away for smoltz who may not be as good as either of them?
by j-ace on Jun 20, 2009 1:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think...
…a Penny trade to clear up a rotation spot is really an issue at this point. Penny’s spot in the rotation is pretty secure (and that’s not a bad thing – were we likely to get better stuff for him than a 1st rd. + sandwich in 2010, given that teams always try to screw the Sox in trades?).
As for how good Smoltz is or isn’t, Dice-K is playing at replacement level at the moment – so if Smoltz isn’t better than him (or if he reinjures himself) Buccholz will be. As would Bowden.
Rock me, sexy Jesus...
by nuthinboutnuthin on Jun 20, 2009 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but
if i’m not wrong, Penny is no where near to even being a Type B free agent. This is because the rankings take into account the average of the last 2 season, being 2008 and 2009. Penny’s 2008 was so bad, it might need him throwing no hitters for the rest of the season to qualify him as a Type A.
So we wont be getting a 1st rd + sandwich in 2010.
by sgsox on Jun 20, 2009 3:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hm.
If you’re right, then you’re right – I didn’t know it was the last two seasons (would explain ’Tek being a Type A, though)…
Rock me, sexy Jesus...
by nuthinboutnuthin on Jun 20, 2009 4:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
right you are...
Rock me, sexy Jesus...
by nuthinboutnuthin on Jun 20, 2009 4:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody's in a rush to trade Penny.
At least not anybody on Yawkey Way.
If Smoltz falters, the insurance policies are named Buchholz and Bowden.
by lone1c on Jun 20, 2009 3:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't remember his name right now...
…but the Sox had a reliever a few years back that had been really good, then fell apart. I think he flipped some fans off, and then it was discovered he had a ‘mysterious muscle imbalance’, and he needed to be treated with a long rehab with his personal doctor back in Asia. Could this be something that Theo needs to look at? Hey, if David Ortiz can get an eye exam, why can’t Dice-K be ‘out of balance’ for a while? I mean really, he’s wobbly enough in the rotation, just like an out-of-balance tire, it’s possible. Right? Isn’t it? (!) By the way, please go easy on me for not remembering the reliever’s name, but I am just not that good with names…
by MonsterShadow327 on Jun 20, 2009 2:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Byung-Hun Kim
But he injured his ankle, and it was real balance issues as a result.
by Ben Buchanan on Jun 20, 2009 3:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This overwhelming defeat AT HOME is a very bad sign!
That performance last night was NOT the performance of a winning, championship-like team. NOT NOT NOT. Dice-K must be dealt with and now, but what about Mr. Washed-up, Jason Varitek?? Can anyone tell me that they were not embarrassed for the Sox watching him trying to get around on those pitches. Pitiful. He is no longer a major league caliber hitter, and he must be dealt with along with Dice-K to get any chance for this team to not go into a big skid. I sense that skid potential is very very real if action is not taken soon!
by NG on Jun 20, 2009 7:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
God damn, NG, give it a rest.
Your Varitek thing is bordering on trolling at this point.
by Ben Buchanan on Jun 20, 2009 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank God a mod beat me to him.
I would have been tossed with him from OTM for my potential foul insults. NG you are beating a fucking rotten dead horse.
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
by sox-inda-south on Jun 20, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to stick around because of my bet on Wakefield.
However, if the majority of posters here act like you and cannot see just how bad Varitek is, then I would voluntarily leave rather than listen to your ridiculous justification of why this guy is still playing.
As I have said many times here, I do not believe being a fan forces you to blindly salivate that the team is good good good. I feel being a fan allows you, indeed obligates you to criticize in areas where the team is failing. Varitek’s offense is badly failing.
by NG on Jun 20, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If there was an easy fix to the solution, why haven't the Sox applied it?
Or is it possible that they think his knowledge of the pitching staff, combined with even average offensive production, is better than any other opportunity they had available?
Or is it possible that they weren’t impressed by last year’s class of free agents?
Or is it possible that the Sox want a single, long-term solution, and not end up repeating the revolving door circus that has been the shortstop position since 2004?
I certainly am concerned about Varitek’s production in the coming years. However, I also think that, for the remainder of this season, there is no easy fix that will improve the Sox enough to be worth the offset in talent that will have to be given up in such a deal.
by lone1c on Jun 20, 2009 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn, I might have to do another in depth post, this time on Tek.
But, for now, I’ll keep it to one graph:
http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs/217_C_daily_full_8_20090619.png
Keep in mind that wOBA is scaled to match OBP, so .333 would be average-ish.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 20, 2009 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Teagarden wOBA: .276
Salty wOBA: .295
Tek: .342 (Tek last year: .299)
So the two guys that everyone seemed to want to replace Tek have been horrid. Absolutely horrid. Varitek has played 11th best in the league this year for catchers. That is pretty damn good. So it seems like Theo might have been right again. Especially with the way some of our monor league catchers are playing.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Jun 21, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah.
But Salty’s always been mediocre-bad, and Teagarden’s still adjusting. I’d still prefer Tek for this season, maybe with a few more games for Kott as the season progresses.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 21, 2009 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's doing good enough on offense
His bat isn’t why we NEED tek. His leadership is.
His offense this season is acceptable, especially when it counts. Srsly, Grand Slam against the MFY?
How fast we forget…
His role, right now, on the Red Sox, is crucial. He cannot be replaced at this time.
And Wakefield is wicked awesome this year. Two of the great class acts in Baseball.
There are two theories on hitting the Knuckleball. Unfortunately, neither of them work. ~Charlie Lau
by BHeebs on Jun 23, 2009 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just an afterthought
I guarantee you getting rid of Tek ruins the team’s clubhouse chemistry, which is heavily disregarded. Baseball is a game, and as such it is meant to be enjoyed. To be successful, one needs to have fun. That’s what the Sox are all about. The attitude they have together is what has made them so successful this decade (along with sheer talent).
This is one of the largest reasons the MFY suck right now.
Without Tek, we miss the playoffs. Flat out.
There are two theories on hitting the Knuckleball. Unfortunately, neither of them work. ~Charlie Lau
by BHeebs on Jun 23, 2009 2:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't say that we would miss the playoffs, guaranteed.
It’d be a struggle, but I think we would still be able to make it b/c Youk, DP, and Lowell would step up.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 23, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm more worried about less consistent pitching
Pitching wins championships, and behind every great pitcher is a great catcher calling the game.
There are two theories on hitting the Knuckleball. Unfortunately, neither of them work. ~Charlie Lau
by BHeebs on Jun 23, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you not read the post, NG?
Here are the facts regarding the Red Sox and Dice-K:
* The Sox can’t trade Dice-K.
* The Sox can’t cut Dice-K.
* The Sox can’t demote Dice-K.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 20, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Dealt with," not "dealt"
Small difference, but important. Of course, NG won’t offer up any ideas about how to deal with them. . . .
by lone1c on Jun 20, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn my reading skills.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 20, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How old is Dice?
Must be 137
Rock me, sexy Jesus...
by nuthinboutnuthin on Jun 20, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Judging from NG's reaction.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 20, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How dare you speak like that about THE Corpse, sir?
He sucks very fucking much, but he’s OUR fucking corpse. He’s like Walker: Texas Ranger: You just know it’s going to suck ASS, so try to laugh about it.
"Hey we got a lot in common here... I'm gonna rape you"
by MerryGoByeBye on Jun 20, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good fan.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 20, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dice-K in the pen? Bad Idea Jeans.
Dice-K would be a HORRIBLE pitcher out of the pen. He’s a walk machine and has people on base constantly. Even when he was winning games, he was still constantly in trouble and then somehow dancing out of it with minimal damage. Bringing him into a game when your starter gets in trouble and you need outs? Yikes.
by Bloggy on Jun 20, 2009 9:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He would have to act as an inning starter, to be sure.
But I don’t think he’s pen-bound anyways. We need the roster space too much, and he’d really just be hurting an otherwise dominant part of our team.
by Ben Buchanan on Jun 20, 2009 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he's so good at getting out of jams with minimal damage, couldn't he be the fireman reliever?
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 20, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's good at creating the jams first...
by Ben Buchanan on Jun 20, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm... give him a chance to get out of a bases loaded situation when we're winning big?
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 20, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He also takes way too long to get ready
Tito says he starts getting warmed up nearly an hour before each start. There’s no way you can manage to put him into a game like that if he takes so long to get ready.
by lone1c on Jun 20, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but that's for a 100 pitch game.
Should take him less time to warm up for a 30 pitch max appearance, no?
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 20, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DL best Option thank God for depth!!!
Well,
Dice K’s performance shows how important pitching depth is. The Sox are committed to Dice K and they probably shut him down for awhile. I do not think he will go to the bulpen. He is a team player and competitive – I think he will do what is best for the club. Once healthy he will be fine. I imagine in the future clubs will write NO WBC into their players’ contracts. I like Dice K and I look forward to seeing him return to form – even if it is not until next year.
I do not think Theo will trade Penny or Smoltz or any pitcher for that matter until late July if at all. The only exception being a BLOCKBUSTER trade for a young SS and catcher that would define the future of the club for years to come. Texas Rangers anyone???
Hey – the Sox won’t know if Smoltz is ok until several starts- he is still a question mark at this point. I also imagine Bucholtz will get some starts down the stretch too. And, assuming Dice K is shut down and Smoltz does not produce then Penny and Bucholtz would round out the rotation. Also, Wakefield has a damaged shoulder (for like the past five seasons) that he strengthens regularly to avoid surgery and he tends to tire out in August so there will be limited spot starts for pitching prospects to get some starts. Not to mention resting Beckett and Lester to make a playoff run. Should be an interesting summer!!
by Dave D on Jun 20, 2009 10:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't need a young SS, we have Jed.
And unless we can get a great catching prospect for cheaper than Buch, I’m gonna stick with Wagner or Expo as our future, with FedEx being another good option.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 20, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
bs.uf15bosox9bears23 how many games has he started?
Dude – c’mon think before you type…
He played for less than a season last year. I like Jed but there are no garuantees that he plays well or does not get injured again this season when he returns. The Sox need a SS for this season. We have a saying in the Army – hope is not a course of action. ‘We’ have Jed is really you saying, “I hope Jed comes back, and I hope he is productive…” Hope is great for church – but it does not win ballgames. Now, with that said – I hope you are right.
by Dave D on Jun 21, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But the point is:
Why use our resources to fill a position that we can fill from within the organization? Yes, there is a chance that Lowrie will never be a good major league player, but early indications are that he will be a solid major league SS. So we should give him a chance before doing anything rash. Also, there are not really any good, young SS’s available right now.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Jun 21, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Green is getting more comfortable with playing SS
A lot of his errors early on I think were the result of inexperience—-he’d only played 23 big-league games at SS before this season.
Between Lowrie and Green, we should be OK at the position for the remainder of the year.
by lone1c on Jun 21, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 21, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is the 800 lb Gorilla in the infield
That is truly the big question for this season and beyond – for SS and Catcher. I like Lowrie – I just wonder what the options will be by the deadline. I think the Sox would only trade for a young SS and catcher (or one or the other) to solve the long term void we have at both positions. I think Theo would pull the trigger on a major blockbuster trade for those two pieces. If Lowrie is the man then great. I just wonder if he is another good backup. But, In Dave D’s world I would have held onto Cora for another year to see Lowrie develop. He would be invaluable right now for his defense. Do you remember last year prior to Manny and Coco being traded? In close games late innings they would put Cora,Ellsbury and Coco out there and that was a tight defense.
by Dave D on Jun 21, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"major blockbuster"?
Like who? I can’t think of any organization with whom we could match up with for a young catcher and young SS. Most teams with those pieces are trying to build around them (like the Rangers, with Andrus and Salty/Teagarden).
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jun 21, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do not know and I admire the patience and silence of the front office
Then, again I had no idea about the Nomar trade but they got it done. The obvious guess is that if the Sox are willing to give pitching in return to anchor SS and catcher they could get something done. Those two positions are not set long term. And, all the fans who think the Sox can just rob another team are dreaming – it would have to be seen as win win for both organizations – or a multi team deal. It will take more than just Penny.
by Dave D on Jun 21, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
And no one here is willing to give up more than Penny or Saito at this point (well, some of us would like to get rid of Paps, but that’s kinda a pipe dream). We have good options for the future in the minors, for catching at least. Jed was a great batter for being one handed, and was pretty good with the glove too – I’m okay with him as our shortstop for at least the next couple of years, with Green or someone else backing him up.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 21, 2009 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My goodness we actually agree on something
well, there is hope for this discussion after all!! I do hear your point about Lowrie – and, like DiceK, Dustin, etc he could have the intangible something I mentioned earlier. I hope you are correct ;)
by Dave D on Jun 21, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, because Cora's the second coming of The Wizard:
His UZR/150 in 2008 was -5.4.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 21, 2009 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cora is known for his defensive skills
by Dave D on Jun 21, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was known for is defensive skills. The guy is 33 years old and probably declining.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Jun 22, 2009 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 22, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Army - that explains it. :)
/Air Force brat
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 21, 2009 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, wouldn't be attacking faiths.
And you’re arguing for a trade for a SS prospect over expecting a guy to come back from a simple surgery.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 21, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please check your dictionary for the definition of the word attack
I did not attack ‘faiths’ as you quipped. To state the obvious that hope works fine in church but not as a course of action for an miltary decision or a business is not an attack – it is an obervation based on numerous visits to church and countless military operations. Why are you so persnickitty? Hope is a bedrock virtue for all who claim faith in a Supreme Being. I hope you understand my point ;)
by Dave D on Jun 21, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We both used bad wording, I guess.
Either that, or I’m paranoid.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 22, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This really is not an issue
outside of the way Dice-K is pitching. He will go on the DL, Smoltz will be moved into the rotation and that is that.
Buchholz is not a problem, he is in AAA and will eventually get a chance to pitch as a spot starter or if Saito gets traded, which seems like it could happen.
As for the WBC ban, that will not happen. MLB is the organization behind the WBC and other teams like Japan, Korea and the Caribbean teams will participate. An anti-WBC clause would go against Bud Selig’s desire to expand and promote the WBC even more.
I am still not willing to blame this entirely on the WBC, other pitchers who participated are having fine seasons. Felix Hernandez, Oswalt, Javier Vasquez, Guthrie (well he is not injured), Joel Hanrahan, Heath Bell, John Grabow, Yu Darvish is dominating in the NPB. Right now there are only 3 pitchers having major trouble: Dice-K, Armando Galaraga and Oliver Perez. To make the WBC the scapegoat seems unfair.
by SoxAcumen on Jun 20, 2009 11:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
We discussed the WBC a bit in last night's game thread
In Dice-K’s case, I believe his participation in the WBC is very much responsible for what happened. Japanese pitchers are routinely overworked: I believe I read that a typical “side session” might involve as many as 150 pitches! I don’t think his offseason program prepared him to ramp up to that level so quickly. Darvish was coming from the Japanese leagues and therefore was probably still conditioned for the workload in a way that Dice-K wasn’t.
by lone1c on Jun 20, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is an issue
Acumen
This is a huge issue. Dice K won 18 games last year and was a big piece in the rotation for this year. So far, he is a disaster. I think Selig can have all the desires in the world, however, when it costs a team to support it by having their players struggle I think we have not heard the last of it…
by Dave D on Jun 20, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hope you realize that DiceK was extremely lucky last year, Dave D.
And I’m not sure anyone expected him to be a “big part of the rotation.”
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 20, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was lucky
But he was better than this.
by Ben Buchanan on Jun 20, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, yeah.
A trained monkey could pitch better than he’s been pitching.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 20, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
bs.uf15bosox9bears23 Dude You cannot be serious
18 wins and an era under three is not lucky and yes he was a big part of their rotation and plans for this year. C’mon what team are you following? Are you going to tell me next that Ortiz wasn’t in their plans this year either?
by Dave D on Jun 21, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a very fluky 18-3 record, though.
No one else in MLB history has ever posted 18 wins in just 167.2 innings before—and I believe that’s by a relatively wide margin, too. Over 29 starts, that’s about 5.2 innings per start. Which means he stayed in just long enough to be the pitcher of record.
Also, if you look at some of the ancillary stats, K/9 were down and BB/9 were WAY up compared to his 2007 numbers. Also, his BABIP went way down, from .306 to .267. So there was lots of luck involved in getting to 18-3 last year.
by lone1c on Jun 21, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lone those are good points
I think his arm broke down last year and then he pushed it too early for the WBC and he needs to be shut down, rested and then restrengthened so he can throw again.
by Dave D on Jun 21, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His arm broke down after 167.2 innings?
If that’s true, then we need to find a way out of his contract.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 21, 2009 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why if he can rehab and be productive?
He pitched 204 innings the year before. What is acceptable to you? Based upon your bearometrics would we find an out for BECKETT’S contract too? He broke down in 2008 and stumbled through 174 innings. I am glad you are not part of the FO. :) Would you dump Lester too since he started slow?
by Dave D on Jun 22, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I'm saying I don't think that's what happened.
Beck had some really bad luck last year, and was actually pitching at the same level as (if not better than) in 2007, by several metrics.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 22, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And this is where I suddenly understand why we're having issues.
You don’t see how lucky Dice-K is because you don’t follow baseball with a calculator at hand. :)
I’ve already explained how lucky Dice-K was – see here: http://www.overthemonster.com/2009/6/14/908983/is-dice-k-ok
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 21, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
more to humans than just statistics
Dice K like Pedroia has intangibles such as competitive drive,desire to succeed and win. You cannot chart that or graph that. The human psyche transcends metrics. You measure the measurable – but are you measuring the important?
by Dave D on Jun 21, 2009 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What happened to Dice-K’s intangibles this year?
Time for a mini-rant: I hate how Dustin Pedroia is portrayed in the media and talked about by so many people. About his “intangibles” and all that. I think this undersells what makes him great: He is a damn talented baseball player. He is successful because he is really, really good. The media likes to pretend that he is some non-athlete that just worked hard and came out of nowhere. But this just isn’t true. He was recruited out of HS to play at one of the best baseball schools in the country, played great there and was drafted in the second round. Yes, he hustles and works hard, but the reason he won an MVP is because he has one of the quickest bats this side of Gary Sheffield. Maybe he does have “intangibles”, but he is definitely one of the most talented baseball players in the game. Lets not sell the guy short (no pun intended) by attributing his success to “intangibles.”
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Jun 22, 2009 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that the media believes that someone that doesn't fit the prototypical atheletic mold can't be talented.
So he must make up for it with a good work ethic or something else.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 22, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stick around for a while and you'll see I value intangibles as much as the next guy.
But I also believe that the measurable things need to measured to death. :)
If a user by the name of NG comes on and continues on his rants about Varitek, you’ll see what I mean – you can believe in both and make a better argument by combining the two.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 22, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will stick around
BTW,
I do appreciate your statistacal approach to analyzing the game – I just think DiceK is injured. Beckett was injured last year and it showed in his performance. I think maybe all the cumulative innings add up for pitchers. When you consider the range of motion and the stress on the shoulder, elbow and muscles of the arm it is only a matter of time before injury or stress or faigue sets in. I also enjoy a little harmless banter so keep up the posts. The important tangible is that we both cheer for the Soxs and are ‘hoping’ they win another WS.
by Dave D on Jun 22, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't even going to bring it up, but since you did:
The best we can do as fans is hope. It’s not like Theo or the rest of the FO reads OTM, unlike the lucky Rangers fans.
And there are a few stats that can show when a guy’s injured: change in arm slot when you’re analyzing release point graphs (although I was reminded that those graphs can be wildly inconsistent when looking at things like release point – different camera/sensor locations from park to park, different setups for the pitcher, etc), drop in velocity, less movement on his pitches, and so on. From what I saw when I was analyzing his second most recent start, it didn’t appear that he was injured – in fact, as you’ll see if you read the post I linked to, I thought his problem was trying to be in the zone more, making him more hittable.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 22, 2009 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course the WBC is an issue
The Japanese are famous for over-working their pitchers. C’mon SoxAcumen, even you should know that. Hernandez, Oswalt, Vasquez, Guthrie, etc. didn’t pitch for Japan.
As for Yu Darvish, who cares? The competition in the NPB sucks compared to MLB. In his NPB career, Hideki Matsui had a career OPS of .995. In his AL career, despite playing in stadiums that inflate left-handed power, Matsui has a career OPS of .847. Some Godzilla! Warren Cromartie played there from age 30 to 36 and had a career OPS of .930. Cromartie had a .739 career OPS in the major leagues. Hey, Kei Igawa has a career ERA of 3.15 in Japan. Sure Darvish might be good in the majors. But, it’s more likely that by the time he comes over he’d have thrown so many pitches in Japan that he’ll be far less effective in the majors.
You might not think the WBC affected Dice-K, but the Sox do. According to Francona:
"We’ve been fighting this all year. It’s been hard, and I know I keep coming back to the WBC and it’s probably not a real popular thing in baseball to say that, but he didn’t really have a chance to get a foundation. He ramped up to try to get people out probably before he was ready, physically.
"It’s happened to pitchers where they’re pitching in earnest before their bodies or their arm are ready to do that. I think we’ve paid the price for that. We’ve been playing catch-up. We did what we thought was right, to shut him down earlier. I think we all see that it’s not really getting better. It’s been a struggle. We’re trying to address that.’’
Even Dice-K admitted some of his problems are attributable to the WBC. But what do they know—right, SoxAcumen?
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jun 21, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the issue is that we don't condition our pitchers to the standards of the Japanese.
If pitchers can have long, productive careers in the Japanese leagues, shouldn’t we be looking into making our pitchers more durable?
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 21, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nolan Ryan has put an end to pitch counts with the Rangers
He believes teams are teaching false limitations…it will be interesting to see how it works out over the long haul if the game transitions to back to old school over a period of time
by Dave D on Jun 21, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
And he’s gotten them to pitch more innings as well.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 22, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure what you mean, bs.uf
Pitchers can have long, productive careers in Japan because the competition isn’t that good. Bottom of the order MLB hitters would—and have—hit in the middle of Japanese batting orders. Even on the best teams over there there are many more easy outs than on the average MLB team.
There are other differences. (1) Pitchers have more days off between starts. (2) The mound, strike zone, and ball are different. The larger strike zone means that Japanese pitchers don’t have to attack the zone the way that MLB pitchers do. Even if they did, bulk of the hitters they’re facing are somewhere between Double-A and Triple-A in quality.
I’m not sure you’d want MLB pitchers to emulate Japanese pitchers. I’m not sure their “durability” translates.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jun 22, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"productive" = healthy
My bad. They still have to throw a lot more pitches, even if it is off a different mound, in a different zone, with a smaller ball. And they throw a lot on off days, right?
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 22, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WBC, whatever
the question is “what do you do with him NOW?”
Tito, and the Sox organization seem reluctant to bench any veteran starter and hence, go way too long with a guy. Examples the past two years are Lugo (who was benched ONLY after an injury), Buchholz (who was progressively worse each start and lost a lot of games, enough to cost the Sox the division), Lowell (who was only taken out when he could barely move) and Oritz who basically hasn’t done shit in several years and can’t hit a major league fastball……so, with that history in mind, it doesn’t surprise me Dice-K is still starting. Personally, I’d put him on the DL. His confidence sounds and looks like it’s totally shot.
by ccthemovieman on Jun 20, 2009 1:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
“and Ortiz who hasn’t done shit in several years” what??? He was terrible for two full months this year, but several years? His OPS+’s from the last few years: 161, 171, 123. Last year (which is what i assume you are talking about) he was as good a hitter as Dustin Pedroia. He played below his own absurdly lofty standards, but he was still a very good hitter. Now, have you been watching the Sox this month? He has been great. I was on board with your post until that line, but c’mon. “Ortiz hasn’t done shit for several years”?? Ridiculous. What team have you been watching?
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Jun 20, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
Sounds like cc hasn’t been paying attention to the team as much recently.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 20, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Total non sequitor
but whatever happened to saturday day games? Perfect day to lay on the ouch on watch basebal, and they go schedule the game for 7:05.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jun 20, 2009 1:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Selig wants the primetime revenue.
I totally agree with you though.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 20, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know.
But it’s BS. If this was the policy when I was a kid, I wouldn’t seen a live baseball game til I was 12.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jun 20, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You had a bedtime of 7 until you were 12?
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 20, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No.
But all my early baseball games were afternoon games. My parents wouldn’t take me to a night game knowing I wouldn’t be back home til 11 or so.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jun 20, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I thought by live you meant live broadcast, as opposed to highlights.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 20, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bedtime of even 10 would preclude a 7pm start game
since most run in the three hour range and then 10-15 minutes to get out of the venue, a bit of travel (on foot, rail, car (maybe you gotta drive back to Haverhill or Barre or somewhere – heck for a weekend day game, you could be coming from Manchester or Meriden or further) and ‘calm down’ time after… you’d be looking realistically at a 11pm in bed lights out after a 7:05 start of a game. At the earliest. That’s if there wasn’t something exciting about the game, And with church the next morning… :)
by JD SoOR on Jun 20, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
less the church-part.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jun 20, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hence the Travolta icon.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 20, 2009 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forgot my joking smiley.
:)
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 22, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
the church part never impacted me, but I could see it being a factor for quite a few of the locals. My thing was getting down from Haverhill. Now, I live in Medford, but unfortunately the wrong Medford. My easy trip to the Sox now is a six hour drive to Oakland. Convenient, yeah?
by JD SoOR on Jun 22, 2009 2:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How is Medord?
I lived in Portland for 5+ years, and explored a fair amount, but I never made it to Medford.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jun 24, 2009 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Medford is nice...
…weather is generally good (though summers are noticeably hotter than when I was a kid growing up here). Enough ‘culture’ in the Shakespeare Festival in Ashland and the summer music at Britt. Decent restaurants, including a modest variety of ethnic options. Skiing an hour away, ocean 2 hours, Redwood and Crater Lake National Parks both easy day trips. White water, mountain lakes, fishing, hiking, etc…
There is a reason I live here :) But for pro sports? We do have a PBA tour stop at Lava Lanes :P I have to drive to Portland (Timbers promoting to MLS in 2011) and to SF or Oakland for NFL or MLB games.
by JD SoOR on Jun 24, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DL this asshole
He walker Jeff Francoeur. Do not trade Penny, see if Smoltz is any good before. Then if Buch keep that up, trade Penny. But DL Dice-K.
"Hey we got a lot in common here... I'm gonna rape you"
by MerryGoByeBye on Jun 20, 2009 1:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Even if Smoltz is OK
I don’t think you trade Penny, unless you’re confident in Buchholz’s abilities, because then he’s your starter if Dice-K doesn’t get his act together.
by lone1c on Jun 20, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True.
I’m starting to like Penny too – he’s loyal to the team, and is willing to pitch from the pen even if he’d rather not.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 20, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was even willing to pitch out of the pen this past weekend
Having veteran pitchers willing to pick up the load like that can give a team a boost that doesn’t get captured in statistics. Not to mention the fact that he tries to make sure that nobody withdraws into their own world in the clubhouse (which can be a problem for players like Ramirez and Okajima). He’s been a good addition to the team this year.
by lone1c on Jun 20, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, Dice-K CAN be demoted or traded.
The Sox would simply need Dice-K’s permission to do so. Has anyone with the Sox asked Dice-K if he’d be willing to go down to Pawtucket for a few starts to work on his mechanics? Based on his statement of not being rotation material right now, he may go for it.
If not, he could be like Masterson is now – the multi-inning mop-up relief guy for giant leads or giant trails.
by dsharp on Jun 20, 2009 3:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's still an insult to him though.
It’d be like calling someone a F’er after they just said they were struggling at their job.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 20, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to Gammons, the Sox rae in no hurry to move Penny
unless someone comes up with a Justin Smoak, Matt LaPorta or Brett Wallace — which isn’t going to happen — they are going to hold onto Penny, who is two years removed from finishing third in the NL Cy Young race.
Short of putting Dice-K on the DL, the Sox really have few options—despite their depth.
Tim Wakefield and Smoltz are 42 years old. Matsuzaka hasn’t been the same since he prioritized the World Baseball Classic exhibitions over the Red Sox regular season. Things happen. Wakefield isn’t working out of the ‘pen; Jason Varitek isn’t going to the bench to bring him in. It is doubtful Smoltz — who pitched brilliantly last weekend for Pawtucket but topped out at 91 mph and averaged 85-88 — could get ready quickly out of the bullpen.
In a real world Matsuzaka would be sent to Pawtucket with his 8.23 ERA. But this is not a real world, either the $100M paid for him or the commissioner trying to keep teams from protecting their investments in a meaningless showcase exhibition. Matsuzaka could be disabled, but he won’t be able to do the physical rehab work and pitch in the minors, where he belongs.
One general manager says the Red Sox are “the only contending team shopping pitching,” but right now Takashi Saito is the most likely to be traded. Boston has to pick up most of the pro-rated salary, and probably would pick up more, to get a prospect, and there have been several inquiries. Two weeks ago, they discussed a Saito-Hank Blalock deal, but Red Sox’s GM Theo Epstein felt the club owed David Ortiz more time. Meanwhile, Chris Davis’ struggles and Smoak’s oblique injury in Triple-A may necessitate Blalock playing first base for the Rangers. The Red Sox have engaged the Angels about Maicer Izturis, but that hasn’t gone anywhere.
I think the Sox have no choice other than putting Matsuzaka on the shelf. The team simply can’t afford a guaranteed loss every 5 days. Last year, they had to stick with a struggling Clay Buchholz until they acquired a better option: Paul Byrd., a league average pitcher This year, the Sox have at least four better options than Dice-K: Smoltz, Buchholz, Bowden, and Masterson.
Here’s a comparison of Dice-K in 2009 v. Buchholz in 2008:
Dice-K: 8 GS 35 IP (4.1 IP/GS) 8.23 ERA 5.72 FIP 26.8 LD% 8.74 K/9 5.05 BB/9
Buchholz: 15 GS 75 IP (5 IP/GS) 6.72 ERA 4.82 FIP 20.9 LD% 8.53 K/9 4.86 BB/9
When you look at the numbers, Buchholz was better in 2008 than Dice-K has been so far this year. I think it would be better to DL Matsuzaka rather than bury him in the bullpen (which is what they’d have to do). As a reliever, Dice-K would have to be relegated to garbage-time situations because his lack of control would make him a poor option in most situations. If Matsuzaka stays with the club as a reliever, Saito or Bard would have to go. Both of those pitchers are better than Dice-K.
Dice-K would probably have a better chance of straightening himself out with rest and rehab. That said, I don’t think the Sox will get much from Dice-K this year. But, unlike last year, they have options. They don’t have to trot out a stinker every five days.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jun 20, 2009 3:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good breakdown, I hadn't realized that even Buch wasn't this bad.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 20, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MAICER IZTURIS?
Shit, I hope it was a joke.
"Hey we got a lot in common here... I'm gonna rape you"
by MerryGoByeBye on Jun 20, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No like Mice Tits?
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 20, 2009 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dice-K is out
According to the globe’s Amalie Benjamin:
Daisuke out of the rotation. To be looked at by Dr. Gill after physical issues came up, Francona says.
I say a DL stint coming (sigh of relief)
The only Red Sox fan in a country where nobody cares about basball!
by radiohix on Jun 20, 2009 4:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
So, apparently the arm slot raise was significant. I’ll have to check last night’s PFX charts first.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 20, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jun 20, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Red Auerbach would be pleased
“lower back pain” was his favorite injury. Vague and unfalsifiable.
by RickD on Jun 20, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's obvious
he’s hurting bad
between Smoltz & Buchholz it will be easy to plug the leak, but Dice-K has to go on DL
by tommy9central on Jun 20, 2009 11:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pitching Situation
Hey guys, I’m a diehard Sox fan and just found this blog and read all of the comments on DiceK and all of the Sox pitching options. I’ve watched almost every game this year (On TV, not in person) and really appreciate the depth they have this year because it was painful at the end of last season. Along with a tired rotation, the bullpen really killed them last year because (Until they got to Paps) Okajima was their only solid option and he almost pitched his arm off, like Foulke did back in ‘04. At least now, it’s best to write off Dice-K because expecting more from him could lead to a let down at the end of the year, just shelf him for as long as it takes to get his head back on straight (Hoepfully, he’ll agree to a rehab stint in the minors, if not they might need to just throw him on the 60-Day DL). I really hope they hold on to Saito unless a great deal comes along because I believe in having as much bullpen depth as possible, especially because relievers can wake up and snap one day. When it comes to Penny, he gives them great felxibility in the rotation, but I think it’s even safer to trade him (Compared with Saito) due to the great number of options who can fill the void (Smoltz, Bucholtz, Bowden, even Masterson if need be), one of those guys is bound to work out. Another thing with Saito is that if the Sox keep him and then let him walk, he has a good chance of being a type A FA (If not, then for sure a Type B) because his stats were so good in 2008. No quick fix will be worth it at SS or C and Lowrie is solid long term, so only a solid prospect would be worth giving up a relatively cheap Saito, which I wouldn’t think would be an option for an aging reliever. Anyways, I like the core of the team and once the bats get rollin again (Pedroia and Bay both until .250 in the last 30 days) their depth can carry them for a long way when other teams start to get tired. If nothing else, having 8 competant starters will ease Tito’s hesitation to rest Beckett/Lester as the season wears on. Saving some innings from the big guns, as well as strong support from a top-flight bullpen can lead to big things in October. I don’t want to get ahead of myself, but I’m just saying it would be nice to have Bard (With more maturity), Masterson, Saito, Okajima, and Ramirez all available in a short series. Remember Bard was a starter at UNC so he could be used to eat innings if they were out of options. No other team has 5 set-up men they can trust in tight games like the Sox (The Yankees lack of bullpen help is a huge reason for why the Sox have dominated them this year). That works real nicely for those guys all being able to get a day of rest between appearances in the playoffs with Delcarmen and Penny (If he’s still around and both are on the postseason roster) to take care of the messy innings. Sorry for hogging the message board, but let me know what you think because I love the current depth and hope that will carry them through come October!
by Sportsstatboy on Jun 21, 2009 3:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Some good stuff in their but some paragraphs, please.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Jun 21, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
Odd that his username is sportsstatboy, yet he only mentions one stat through the entire essay – BA. Good point, still.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 21, 2009 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DiceK Fix
Well, there’s Ttio’s solution- shelf him on the 15-day with a weak shoulder, seems like the only option now, but from his comments also seem that he’ll be out for month(s) vs. weeks.
by Sportsstatboy on Jun 21, 2009 3:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
OverTheMonster - ALLERGEN WARNING: May contain peanut butter.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jun 21, 2009 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

by 



















