Which offseason method is better: Red Sox or Yankees?
by SoxDevil on Mar 11, 2009 1:52 PM EDT
in News
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Much has been made of the Red Sox' offseason approach, especially in contrast with the Yankees' baseball stimulus package. Jayson Stark of ESPN wrote an article that nicely summarizes the two rivals' move.
"For $423 million, the Yankees obviously got some nice pieces," said one scout. "But in terms of filling needs, I think Boston did just as well, if not better."
The four free agents [the Red Sox] imported -- John Smoltz, Brad Penny, Takashi Saito and Rocco Baldelli -- cost this team 4 million fewer guaranteed dollars ($12.5 million total) than the Yankees will pay Burnett alone this year.
Nevertheless, the upside of those men gives the Red Sox four potential impact players without the price tags, or long-term inflexibility, that come with handing out contracts that run through 2016.
...
"I think the biggest difference from this year to last year is, now we have depth," [Red Sox starter Jon] Lester said. "Last year, we had some depth, but we had guys in the minor leagues who either (A) didn't have big league experience, or (B) had very little experience. So having these guys -- Penny, Smoltz, Saito -- they can help us out in different ways where, in the past, we haven't been able to get over that hump.
Stark comes away with a decidedly pro-Red Sox opinion, and it's easy for me to agree with him. C.C. Sabathia has a ton of mileage on his arm and not the most athletic body type. He's not the sort of guy I'd want to sign to a 7-year contract. Burnett, who has already been a training-room fixture during his career, was handed a 5-year deal. Both starters are formidable when healthy and fresh, but the Yankees are gambling a lot of money and two roster spots over the long term. In my mind, Teixeira's contract is more defensible.
Smoltz has been called a physical freak and is already exceeding the Sox' expectations in his rehab. If any of the gambles pay off, I'd bet on Smoltz.
Saito opted to pass on Tommy John surgery and instead tried a new, experimental procedure that may accelerate the body's own healing mechanisms. Over the past three years Saito has held opposing batters to a remarkable line of.182/.246/.264. If Takashi can come anywhere near those numbers the Red Sox have found a valuable piece for their bullpen.
Even if none of the Red Sox' reclamation projects work out the team has a clean slate in 2010 and the front office can alter its approach.
Read Jayson Starks entire article here.
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Saito and Smoltz will be a steal
Saito and Smoltz will end up being a steal for the Sox… but I’m worried about penny. I think the shoulder is going to bother him all year. That siad, the Sox might have the best medical staff in the game, so if anyone can prove me wrong it’s them.
by bottomlinesox on Mar 11, 2009 2:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You forget one important (and sad) fact
If C.C. or A.J. stop performing at a high level, the Yankees will just go out and buy more superstars pitcher to replace them. They have a bottomless pit of money and will spend it. It sucks, but that’s the way it is until MLB joins the 21st century.
by ccthemovieman on Mar 11, 2009 3:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Peavy and Lackey in pinstripes next year?
by Schulz on Mar 11, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lackey, Wang, Sabathia.
With that top three, the Yankees’ playoff strategy becomes “Pray for someone else to eliminate the Red Sox before they sweep us.”
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on Mar 11, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure how bottomless that pit is.
The Yankees built a new stadium with the expectation that New Yorkers will fill it. But with a terrible recession that has bankrupted New York, devastated the city’s main industry (finance), and thrown thousands of rich people out of their jobs, there won’t be as much demand for tickets. Moreover, the Yankees are coming off a terrible season where they never sniffed the playoffs. The organization may become thriftier in the 2010 offseason. Considering that Obama’s a White Sox fan, I can’t see the Yankees getting any stimulus money, and the Steinbrenner presumably want to turn a profit and may decide to spend more reasonably. We’ll see.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on Mar 11, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder
What percentage of “high market” teams’ profits actually comes from ticket sales. I’d think it would be only a small percentage compared to advertising, TV and Radio contracts, and memorabilia sales.
by Schulz on Mar 12, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Yanks
Make most of their money from the YES Network. Other baseball teams have or are attempting to follow the Yankees’ lead, since that revenue is not shared.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
by SoxDevil on Mar 12, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think memorabilia sales is shared amongst teams.
by BTLove on Mar 13, 2009 4:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
Wow, I had no idea, and that’s not very fair at all.
"Hey we got a lot in common here... I'm gonna rape you"
by MerryGoByeBye on Mar 13, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Considering people like this:
I’m glad we get some of the money they have to spend on that POC hat.
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Mar 14, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s funny when you look at just the 2009 season (and not consider future seasons), Smoltz/Penny and Burnett are in the same boat: can be very good if healthy, but healthy is a risk factor. The key differences:
- If they all stay healthy, Smoltz even at this age will be more dominate then Burnett
- Both Smoltz and Penny (both just had 1 season with major injury in last 4 seasons) have better recent track record of staying healthy then Burnett (who not only has 2 seasons out of the last 4 missing a good amount on the DL, but has an entire career of DL stints)
- Both of them cost considerable less then Burnett
- If (when) Burnett goes down, that is damaging to the top of the Yanks starting line-up. If Smoltz or Penny goes down, either the other one can fill in, or Clay, or whoever, but it won’t be devastating to our lineup
I mean, we do realize that Penny is only 1 yr older then Burnett, right? So let me get this straight, similar ability pitchers at similar ages, one is coming off injury but in the long run the other is more injury prone, and one holds no long-term risk while the other one does, and some analyst and yank fans actually think the Burnett signing was great?
by Realistic on Mar 11, 2009 3:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think you're looking at best-case scenerio
(Yankees going down!)
However, they probably make the same case with Beckett (a history of injuries), Dice-K tiring out; Smoltz missing the first two months of the season; Penny coming off a big injury, etc.
The fact is, key injuries often decide who the WS champs are. Given a healthy Beckett last fall, there is no doubt in my mind the Sox would have won it all again. The point is you can’t assume the Yankee hurlers will get hurt, and our guys won’t. You just don’t know with a number of guys on either team. However, the Steinbrenners will buy the best out there – they always have. Tough financial times didn’t stop them this year, when all other 29 teams drastically cut back. I’d love to see that blow up in their face.
by ccthemovieman on Mar 11, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess my point I was trying to make is that we know full well Smoltz and/or Penny could easily make minimal contribution, that’s why they are considered low risk reclamation projects, yet people ignore that, if history is any indicator, the chances are just as great that both Smoltz and Penny collectively log in just as much innings if not more then Burnett alone. Yet he was considered the 2nd best pitcher on the market and argued to be worth what the Yanks gave him.
At the exact same sum price for one year, I would take Smoltz and Penny over Burnett (i.e. if their salaries together were exactly the same as his alone for one year). Yet he was paid more for a much longer (and hence riskier) contract, and yet people made a big deal about his signing, and outside of sox circles not so much for Penny/Smoltz
by Realistic on Mar 11, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The question is which approach is better,
and the answer is obviously ours.
The reason we did not have to got out and spent half a billion in free agency is because we have developed so much talent on our own in the last few years. Lester, Paps, Pedey, Youk etc. These guys are great players. The Yankees have brought up Wang, who is good, and Cano, who is a question mark. Maybe Joba will make a difference, but they clearly are not depending on him. We were even able to get Beckett and Lowell through a trade that sent a great prospect who had been developed for years. The Yankees have not developed anyone great for 10 or more years. Because of this terrible lack of a farm system, and their need to win now with their aging core of position players, they had to win now and spend the money.
by BTLove on Mar 11, 2009 8:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
you can't knock them for trying though
The Yankees have tried to develop their own pitching in Joba, Hughes and Kennedy. But like most prospects 2 out 3 haven’t worked out. I am sure they’d love to save some cash and develop all their own talent.
The bottom line is this, since they have such large cash resources they get lazy sometimes and rely on that. Teams like the twins and A’s have no choice but to be clever and since necessity is the mother of invention, they work it out.
I’m not trying to be the defender of NY, but they have alot of resources and I am sure the Twins/Rays/A’s/Red Sox model of development is both studied and admired very closely by them.
by sydneysox on Mar 11, 2009 8:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not counting Hughes out
Many pitchers don’t reach their potential until their late 20s.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
by SoxDevil on Mar 12, 2009 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By that time
He’ll be on the Rays, or some other team. The Yankees, and the Sox for that matter, don’t have the patience to allow a pitcher to struggle in the majors as he develops.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on Mar 12, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never said he'd be on the Yankees :-)
He’d do very well pitching for the SD Padres, I think.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
by SoxDevil on Mar 12, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who wouldn't?
That field is the size of Rhode Island
by Schulz on Mar 12, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hughes
You do realize that Hughes is 22?! He is nearly 2 full years younger then Buccholz. He looked very good in the AFL. He will be a good pitcher, and has plenty of time. Forget Kennedy (who no one thought was much anyway), pitching prospects take time. Joba was a freak, and made a big impact at 21. Hughes and Buchholz have the talent to succeed (still), and looking at recent history (Santana, Halliday…) you really often have to allow for some maturity.
by Buzzy on Mar 13, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right.
But I don’t think the Yankees have the patience to allow Hughes to struggle at the major league level, which may be necessary for his development (as it was for Johan Santana). Not when they can plug his spot with a Burnett or a Peavy. And there is a chance that Hughes, who has already developed an injury history, will never become a good major league player.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on Mar 13, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“And there is a chance that Hughes, who has already developed an injury history, will never become a good major league player.”
There is always a big chance. And with pitchers the chance is bigger. The point is that Hughes is young and talented. If the Yankees were smart, the would keep him in AAA all year to work on his weaker stuff. Then they can take a look and see if he should be plugged into the back end of the rotation in 2010. Maybe give him some fill in starts this year, but not many.
I am not so sure the Yankees are going to be that impatient with him. In 08 they went into the season with a monumentally stupid lack of pitching depth. The have more now, so that is what dictates pace more than anything else. If the rest of the staff is good, no one will worry that the young 23 year old kid is working it out in the 5 spot.
by Buzzy on Mar 13, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Red Sox/Yankees
Who cares who’s method was better, they’re both going to finish behind the Rays, in the Red Sox case, maybe behind the Blue Jays
by Manny Ramirez on Mar 13, 2009 6:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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