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The Red Sox's 2010 Season May Be Over Before It Starts

Red Sox fans, I'm going to tell you something that you might not want to hear. You might cringe at what I'm telling you. But it's something everyone has to hear and, perhaps, has to accept:

The Red Sox's 2010 season might already be a lost cause.

Yeah. I'm serious.

Star-divide

Marc Normandin, a Baseball Prospectus writer and former ringleader of the Beyond The Boxscore cult, was scratching his head about all the reports regarding the Red Sox recently. Why are they going after Jason Bay? Why aren't they going after Matt Holliday?

And then it all came to him:

The Sox front office also seems more optimistic about the 2011 market than the 2010 one, for a few reasons. The ones they discuss specifically are the fact that David Ortiz and Lowell will be free agents, so they can get their contracts off of the books, opening up their budget and some roster spots. This also screams that they are in the market for a new designated hitter and third baseman, but will wait until their current ones take their leave.

[...]

Why would they do this? Why would they sign someone who is so obviously not fit for the position, especially as he ages and becomes more expensive? The answer may lie in that 2011 market, as left fielder Carl Crawford will be a free agent (assuming the Rays don’t lock him up to a deal, and they may let him walk due to their own prospects and budget). The Sox may be looking to sign Bay long-term, not as their future left fielder, but as their present left fielder and future DH. Having a bat like Bay’s at DH would allow them to shore up their defense, which would in turn improve their pitching, which would improve their record…see where I’m going with this? They would be squeezing runs and wins out of everywhere they can in order to keep up with New York this way.

You know? I think he may just be on to something.

Of course, the biggest hitch of them all is if Carl Crawford is actually available come next winter. If the Rays are smart -- and we know they can't be all that dumb -- they're going to try their hardest to bring Crawford back. Crawford, who has been in Tampa Bay since his big league career started in 2002, can pretty much do everything you want out of a baseball player. His defense, though, may be his biggest asset -- at least for the Sox.

Crawford's +17.5 UZR/150 last season in left for the Rays was seventh best in baseball. No, not seventh best for left fielders, but seventh best UZR/150 for all fielders. He was the highest-ranked left fielder and second-ranked outfielder (Franklin Gutierrez - 27.1 - is just straight filth). There's no doubt his success could translate well to Fenway Park and playing The Monster.

Another key to this scenario is the Red Sox not bringing back Mike Lowell. Which is likely. Actually, it's not likely at all if he is traded to the Texas Rangers soon -- which is a rumor. I'm not really buying the rumor right now, but at least it's being discussed (if he is traded, Adrian Beltre would be a Red Sox faster than you can say "Beltre throwing from his knees from short left field ... OUT!").

The downside to waiting until 2011 is that there's not a huge market for good third basemen. Anybody want Eric Chavez? Just kidding. If Beltre were to be available next year, we could have a nice match on our hands, but that is unlikely.

One more thing worth pointing out: Joe Mauer is a free agent in 2011. As long as the Twins don't extend his contract, he will be the No. 1 free agent on the market. If the Sox were to try and nab Mauer (Victor Martinez's current contract expires at the end of the season), it'd be a pretty penny to pay for both Mauer and Crawford. The Sox could have the money for both, but would they really want to shell out that kind of cash?

What say you, Sox fans? Is it worth it for the Red Sox to save money, resources and prospects in 2010 and just aim for the sky in 2011? Or do you think the Sox can stay competitive and try to win every season? Do you buy any of this at all? Is Theo just holding his cards close to his chest?

Whatever the future holds, it's going to bright ... at some point. But that point may not be 2010.

0 recs  |  Comment 127 comments |

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Someone email Randy.

NG figured out his password and is posting under his name.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Dec 9, 2009 9:17 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

I take that as a compliment!

Thank you. In other words, great minds think alike.

by NG on Dec 9, 2009 9:29 PM EST up reply actions  

prob not.

no, not at all.

Miguel Cabrera IS the solution to our problems.
Release Jason Varitek before ST is over !
Do not pay Jason Bay !!
Trade Buchholz !!!

by gizmosandy on Dec 9, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I believe the pan is to field an above average team spending least amount of $ possible

and if we are out of race at deadline, we have Beckett, Ortiz, Victor, and perhaps Papelbon as trade bait. Finish second half with some guys who start year in minors. Theo could re-stock the farm at the deadline. Ortiz way more attractive for half season than any other scenario.

Miguel Cabrera IS the solution to our problems.
Release Jason Varitek before ST is over !
Do not pay Jason Bay !!
Trade Buchholz !!!

by gizmosandy on Dec 9, 2009 9:17 PM EST reply actions  

What the hell are we,

"We're not going to give up," It doesn't happen, so who cares? There's always next year. It's not like it's the end of the world."-Manny Ramirez

by revigik on Dec 9, 2009 9:18 PM EST up reply actions  

a small market team!?!?!?!?

"We're not going to give up," It doesn't happen, so who cares? There's always next year. It's not like it's the end of the world."-Manny Ramirez

by revigik on Dec 9, 2009 9:18 PM EST reply actions  

And is Beltre really that good?

Because Boras held court today, and he compared his hitting to Bay. 265 w/ 8 bombs (albeit a down year) is NOT Jason Bay. Looks like Boras won’t have a realistic price idea once again-esp. in the economy. And why not trade for Halladay or Gonzo?

"We're not going to give up," It doesn't happen, so who cares? There's always next year. It's not like it's the end of the world."-Manny Ramirez

by revigik on Dec 9, 2009 9:20 PM EST reply actions  

Feh.

I expect this sky-is-falling talk from some, Randman. But not you.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

by Bloggy on Dec 9, 2009 9:21 PM EST reply actions  

At some point people need to realize Red Sox baseball 2010 is probably going to suck.

Miguel Cabrera IS the solution to our problems.
Release Jason Varitek before ST is over !
Do not pay Jason Bay !!
Trade Buchholz !!!

by gizmosandy on Dec 9, 2009 9:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks

I’m glad you can make that observation without even knowing who will be on the team yet.

by TroyPatterson on Dec 9, 2009 9:24 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Common sense, but you know it ain't so common

obviously.

Miguel Cabrera IS the solution to our problems.
Release Jason Varitek before ST is over !
Do not pay Jason Bay !!
Trade Buchholz !!!

by gizmosandy on Dec 9, 2009 9:25 PM EST up reply actions  

It might.

It might not.

Guess that’s why they schedule 162 games to try to figure that out.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

by Bloggy on Dec 9, 2009 9:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I can't, in any objective way, see the 2010 Sox as "sucking"

Will we be better than the Yanks? No, I don’t see it unless Dice-K and Buchholz have great years. But we will compete for the Wild Card up until the end of the season most likely and any team that does that does not, objectively, “suck”. Or, to you, if we don’t make the WS do we suck? Is it an All-or-Nothing kinda thing?

We’ll probably win 90 games+ with good pitching and improved defense. Just because we don’t trade for Miguel Cabrera or Adrian Gonzalez (and those two aren’t really getting ANY press that they’re available right now) doesn’t mean we’re going to be a .500 team next year.

DFA Beckett

by South Coast Ghost on Dec 9, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow. I can't believe you called me Randman.

Long story, but…

I’m not saying the sky is falling. I’m just saying this could be how Theo is approaching the season.

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by Randy Booth on Dec 9, 2009 9:37 PM EST up reply actions  

You have my agreement

what the F else do you need

Miguel Cabrera IS the solution to our problems.
Release Jason Varitek before ST is over !
Do not pay Jason Bay !!
Trade Buchholz !!!

by gizmosandy on Dec 9, 2009 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Why is it so terrible to play next year smartly?

They will not be contending for a World Series next year whether they spend stupidly or not. Locking up huge money in Jason Bay is not going to make the difference, we had him last year and we didn’t win. Why not try to actually field a consistently good team instead of panic spending every year.

I’m all for letting next year be a down year in order to be great on the other side. But I don’t really get the reasoning of locking up huge money in an aging DH for years to come being better than locking up an aging left fielder. They also have prospects like Lars Anderson and Anthony Rizzo coming up who could be future DHs/ First Base. If you’re looking future, do it all the way.

by BigRedDog42 on Dec 9, 2009 9:24 PM EST reply actions  

This is Boston tht doesn't go over so well.

Can’t charge the prices being charged @ Fenway and expect that approach to work. Like it or not it’s factual.

Miguel Cabrera IS the solution to our problems.
Release Jason Varitek before ST is over !
Do not pay Jason Bay !!
Trade Buchholz !!!

by gizmosandy on Dec 9, 2009 9:27 PM EST up reply actions  

If they want entertainment

Sing Vlad to one year deal in left. I’d pay the full price just to see him gun people out at second and occasionally crank one off the CItgo sign.

by BigRedDog42 on Dec 9, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd pay money for a singing Vlad.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

by Bloggy on Dec 9, 2009 9:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the goal...

… is to have either Bay play left or have someone better than Bay defensively play left. Not a dead corpse in left…

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Follow Randy on Twitter: @RCBooth

by Randy Booth on Dec 9, 2009 9:40 PM EST up reply actions  

As opposed to a live corpse.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

by Bloggy on Dec 9, 2009 9:41 PM EST up reply actions  

As long as they run like...

…zombies in 28 Days Later, I have no objections.

THAT'S the money you could be saving with Geico

by DJDP23 on Dec 10, 2009 6:46 AM EST up reply actions  

I'd rather have Vlad's dead deceased corpse next year

then Jason bay’s decaying bat speed and defense for the next 5 years.

by BigRedDog42 on Dec 9, 2009 9:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Why is it that this team standing pat is equated to giving up the season?

If we field the same team as we did last year, do we not still get to the playoffs? Toss in Scutaro, have less random pitching woes, and don’t go into a hitting slump of epic proportions in the ALDS and we’re favorites to make it to the ALCS. Hell, just get into the playoffs and anything can happen.

Not sure why we assume few moves = few wins.

USG

by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2009 9:28 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Indeed.

And it ain’t Spring Training yet, either. Christ.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

by Bloggy on Dec 9, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions  

teams getting old fast.

Miguel Cabrera IS the solution to our problems.
Release Jason Varitek before ST is over !
Do not pay Jason Bay !!
Trade Buchholz !!!

by gizmosandy on Dec 9, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Like hell it is.

The old guys have already shown their age. The young guys are what we can expect to get better. Ells, Pedroia, Lester, and Bard can all have better years. Papi and Lowell I don’t expect to get much worse. Who else is there at either extreme?

USG

by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2009 9:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Ben Buchanan

you have a point

Miguel Cabrera IS the solution to our problems.
Release Jason Varitek before ST is over !
Do not pay Jason Bay !!
Trade Buchholz !!!

by gizmosandy on Dec 9, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Never doubt Tim Wakefield, Ben Buchanan

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

by Bloggy on Dec 9, 2009 9:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Mr. Buchanan

your logic is clear and convincing. Have you perchance considered writing for this site?

"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.

by 0157H7 on Dec 9, 2009 9:41 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

SB Nation's Boston Red Sox community:
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Follow Randy on Twitter: @RCBooth

by Randy Booth on Dec 9, 2009 9:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Also, what is this I hear of a Lowell-Texas move

Are we going to take a salary dump for Max Ramirez-who had a crummy year in AAA last year anyway? If we’re going to do that, why not just release him.

"We're not going to give up," It doesn't happen, so who cares? There's always next year. It's not like it's the end of the world."-Manny Ramirez

by revigik on Dec 9, 2009 9:29 PM EST reply actions  

Youk

Beltre @ 3B c;mon Ben Buchanan get with the program

Miguel Cabrera IS the solution to our problems.
Release Jason Varitek before ST is over !
Do not pay Jason Bay !!
Trade Buchholz !!!

by gizmosandy on Dec 9, 2009 9:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree Ben Buchanan

but UZR reigns supreme. Beltre is going to be Lugo all over again.

Miguel Cabrera IS the solution to our problems.
Release Jason Varitek before ST is over !
Do not pay Jason Bay !!
Trade Buchholz !!!

by gizmosandy on Dec 9, 2009 9:35 PM EST up reply actions  

random comparison

His power will step up a tick going from Safeco to Fenway as a right handed bat and deny UZR all you want. He is still one of the best fielders at third.

by TroyPatterson on Dec 9, 2009 9:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I deny both you and UZR Troy Patterson

Miguel Cabrera IS the solution to our problems.
Release Jason Varitek before ST is over !
Do not pay Jason Bay !!
Trade Buchholz !!!

by gizmosandy on Dec 9, 2009 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

He is

But his power went all to hell last year, as did his LD%. He’s not making solid contact.

USG

by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

injured all year

I don’t believe that he will be playing that way 2010. It can’t drop that suddenly that much. He’s not old.

by wolf9309 on Dec 9, 2009 11:54 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed

Beltre is not the power hitter Bay is – no matter what Boras says.

But he’s a much better hitter outside of Safeco than his raw numbers suggest and should do even better in Fenway. And defensively he’s a huge upgrade over how Lowell played last year.

by mmmmm on Dec 10, 2009 9:58 AM EST up reply actions  

we need him to deal him.

Miguel Cabrera IS the solution to our problems.
Release Jason Varitek before ST is over !
Do not pay Jason Bay !!
Trade Buchholz !!!

by gizmosandy on Dec 9, 2009 9:31 PM EST up reply actions  

it would be more of a roster space dump

and a “lowell will be grumpy if he is on the bench” dump. We won’t take all his salary so it’s silly to say release him instead. And Max Ramirez was mentioned by one journalist in the sense of “if there was a trade MAYBE it would involve Max Ramirez”

by wolf9309 on Dec 9, 2009 11:53 PM EST up reply actions  

My source Psychic Cher

has just informed me Lowell will be dealt before morning. Thanks Mikey.

Miguel Cabrera IS the solution to our problems.
Release Jason Varitek before ST is over !
Do not pay Jason Bay !!
Trade Buchholz !!!

by gizmosandy on Dec 9, 2009 9:35 PM EST reply actions  

I actually don't mind Beltre at 3B

As long as he’s on a shorter deal he’s fine. I may be the only one who sees him improving next year in Fenway though.

DFA Beckett

by South Coast Ghost on Dec 9, 2009 9:43 PM EST reply actions  

To clear up:

I’m not saying the season is over, but Theo seems to be building it with more stock in 2011 than 2010. Mark my words: this team will still win 90-95 games.

SB Nation's Boston Red Sox community:
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Follow Randy on Twitter: @RCBooth

by Randy Booth on Dec 9, 2009 9:43 PM EST reply actions  

96 and I'm calling you on it.

We’ll start calling you NG2, or something.

USG

by Ben Buchanan on Dec 9, 2009 9:44 PM EST up reply actions  

NG2?

I do have the power to ban you, Ben Buchanan.

SB Nation's Boston Red Sox community:
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Follow Randy on Twitter: @RCBooth

by Randy Booth on Dec 9, 2009 9:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Come on

Is speaking the truth around here now a sin??

by NG on Dec 9, 2009 9:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes!

REPENT, HEATHEN!

"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.

by 0157H7 on Dec 9, 2009 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes

What, do you think we’re in America or something?!

SB Nation's Boston Red Sox community:
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Follow Randy on Twitter: @RCBooth

by Randy Booth on Dec 9, 2009 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Tread carefully, Ben Buchanan.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

by Bloggy on Dec 9, 2009 9:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Ben Buchanan

Randy Booth is in control, because I let him be.

Need I remind you.

Miguel Cabrera IS the solution to our problems.
Release Jason Varitek before ST is over !
Do not pay Jason Bay !!
Trade Buchholz !!!

by gizmosandy on Dec 9, 2009 9:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Whyever would we have thought you were saying the season is over.
The Red Sox’s 2010 Season May Be Over Before It Starts

;)

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

by Bloggy on Dec 9, 2009 9:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Touche

I live for sensational headlines.

Y’all are reading and commenting though, right?

SB Nation's Boston Red Sox community:
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Follow Randy on Twitter: @RCBooth

by Randy Booth on Dec 9, 2009 9:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh....trying to generate a little activity, hey?

You sly devil. No wonder you’re the Big Cheese around here, Randman.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

by Bloggy on Dec 9, 2009 9:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Dude

The Randman is just freaky…

SB Nation's Boston Red Sox community:
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Follow Randy on Twitter: @RCBooth

by Randy Booth on Dec 9, 2009 9:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Clearly, I don't know why.

Although the second time I did it specifically to freak you out.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

by Bloggy on Dec 9, 2009 9:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Figured.

SB Nation's Boston Red Sox community:
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Follow Randy on Twitter: @RCBooth

by Randy Booth on Dec 9, 2009 9:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I suppose it could also be construed as extremely positive

But December World Series guaruntees seem more like a yankees site kind of thing

by BigRedDog42 on Dec 9, 2009 9:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Personally, I find it an insightful headline...

Driven into right-center field, Erstad says he has it...the Angels, world champions!

by LAASurfin on Dec 9, 2009 10:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I think

With worse offense, Buchholz all year, and Dice-K performing close to as he should, this team should win more games than last year even if we end up with a Hermida/someone else platoon in left.

by wolf9309 on Dec 9, 2009 11:55 PM EST up reply actions  

No. Way.

Uh uhhhh. Not happening. The Sox aren’t throwing in the towel on 2010. They won’t be out of the playoff race at deadline.

The team is steady, albeit unspectacular, at the moment. They made the playoffs last year and aren’t in a rebuilding/regrouping mode.

It is true they have their eyes on Mauer and Crawford after the upcoming season – common sense tells you that – but so do the Yankees, the Angels, the Mets, the Dodgers (when the divorce is final), the Cubs, etc. Oh, and not to mention the Twins and Rays who may have something to say about it as well. And who’s to say someone like the Rangers or Mariners won’t decide they’re close enough to make a big splash with a big name?

No, if I were the Sox GM I’d be setting the bar this offseason where I want it to be – not where the agents are going with it. Nothing has to be settled this week in a panic. Trades are still to come. Goodbye Mikey? Probably. Jacoby? Maybe. A few prospects will likely get their shot to develop with another club. Bye bye Bowden? Could be.

But we don’t need to judge Theo on this one week. It’s still a long time before pitchers and catchers report and there are a lot of mind games at play – both informational and disinformational.

(stepping down from my soap box now. Geez, that went a little longer than I intended.)

by dsharp on Dec 9, 2009 9:44 PM EST reply actions  

I will just make this statement

Before the trade deadline in 09, everyone thought the Sox were doing A), B) and C), but then Theo pulls off the Vmart deal and the word is he was trying to broker a massive AG, King Felix, Boston’s Farm system blockbuster that NOBODY had any idea was in the works.

Now, I am not saying AG or Felix is coming to Boston, but I find it hard to believe that Jon Heyman or whomever really has the inside scoop on what is actually taking place in GM meetings until the GM’s want them to know. As a trial lawyer, I can tell you I never talk to anyone I dont completely trust until the deal is done. Theo is not a fool, his real targets are probably under lock and key right now.

So I would just hold out on the “2010 is Over” articles, just till we see what Theo’s real agenda might be.

For some reason, I keep coming back to Miggy C. and how Detroit is a ruined, economic mess of a city and they want to dump salary and get younger to sign Verlander/Porcello and make a run in a couple years when things are better.

I could see that move happening. Miggy C. for players in the organization not named Kelly or Westmoreland. To me Buchholz and Bard are on the 25 man roster and arent going anywhere.

Let me put it another way…If you wanted to make a deal for Miggy C. or even AGon and you didnt want to get fleeced what would you do? Show the opposing GM that you have another option, right? So Lowell to Texas for Ramirez might be a prelude to moving him in a package for Miggy C. and the Beltre rumor might be to show both teams you have another 3B in line and you are not desperate. It could all be a bunch of smoke for Theo to focus on his real target.

Pure speculation.

by SoxAcumen on Dec 9, 2009 10:35 PM EST reply actions  

I agree on the "sky is falling" stuff.

But I don’t see Miggy happening. I imagine they got rid of Granderson to save money for him.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Dec 9, 2009 10:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Detroit is saving

money for Verlander and Porcello. Miggy C. is going to get dumped eventually.

by SoxAcumen on Dec 9, 2009 11:36 PM EST up reply actions  

i dont know about that

They have a lot of big contracts comming off the books soon…
Ordonez: 2010, $15; 2011, $15; 2012, FA.
Guillen: 2010, $13; 2011, $13; 2012, FA.
Bonderman: 2010, $12.5; 2011, FA.
Robertson: 2010, $10; 2011, FA.
Inge: 2010, $6.6; 2011, FA.

As you can see, they shed a lot of payroll over the next two years. If they can bite the bullet, they will be a pretty affordable team in 2012 and beyond, even with Cabrera and an extended Verlander.

by Schulz on Dec 10, 2009 12:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Yup

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Dec 10, 2009 9:20 AM EST up reply actions  

unless I'm mistaken

Ordonez is $18 million 2010 and his 2011 is a vesting option- so if they need to drop salary that badly, they’d probably just not allow his 2011 option to vest rather than trading Miggy

(Cot’s is backing me up)

by wolf9309 on Dec 10, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Eh

Just because the city of Detroit is going under doesn’t mean that it will affect the owners too much in the long run through attendance. The man owns Little Caesar’s Pizza. I alone in one year pay Verlander’s contract through the purchase of Hot’N Ready pepperoni pizzas. John Henry made his money on Wall Street, if Boston goes the way of Detroit he similarly has investments elsewhere to get them through.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Dec 9, 2009 11:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Detroit is a dead city

attendance is horrible for sports teams and the recession has just started and the key to my argument is not the economics of Detroit, its that Justin Verlander will ask for 17 million + and Porcello will ask for similar.

So, if you are Detroit do you keep a fat out of shape overpaid 1B who cannot play 1B or do you keep 2 young stud arms?

As I said Miggy C. will be traded, maybe not this off season, but he will be traded.

by SoxAcumen on Dec 9, 2009 11:39 PM EST up reply actions  

They don't have to pay Porcello for another 4-5 years.

Miggy is the only good hitter they’ve got left.

And if you’re right, and Miggy is “a fat out of shape overpaid 1B who cannot play 1B,” do we really want him?

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Dec 9, 2009 11:43 PM EST up reply actions  

if he gets traded, it will be this offseason

they have $60 million coming off the books next year. If they can’t afford him, it’s because they can’t afford hi mhis year, not long term

by wolf9309 on Dec 9, 2009 11:56 PM EST up reply actions  

also, his defense has been improving

He’s not as out of shape as people make it seem

by wolf9309 on Dec 9, 2009 11:58 PM EST up reply actions  

You want the

fat out of shape overpaid 1B who can’t play 1B on our team? I guess I’m missing the logic here…

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Dec 10, 2009 9:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Well, if we get out of this offseason with Bay resigned and Scutaro

The team is better then last year. IMO. So i don’t see how it could be seen as throwing in the towel. I just see it as smart. The free agent market next offseason is just better, and if we can get those quality players without having to give up propects, I think its smart.

by beantownboy171 on Dec 9, 2009 10:38 PM EST reply actions  

Who is next years crop?

For all-stars, it’s Mauer, Crawford, Dunn, Lee, Webb and Halladay (if he’s not traded and signed). Other than that, I don’t see too many upgrades for us.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Dec 9, 2009 10:50 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah

but this years crop is holliday and lackey. If i feel are worse then all you’ve listed (besides Dunn.)

by beantownboy171 on Dec 9, 2009 10:52 PM EST up reply actions  

re

that’s not enough?

by rmarx on Dec 9, 2009 10:52 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I think Crawford is overrated.

Halladay won’t hit the market. Webb is unknown after his injury last year.

I see Lee resigning with the Phils, but I wouldn’t mind grabbing him, especially if we let Beckett walk. If we resign VMart (which I’ve heard is a possibility), we won’t pick up Mauer. And Dunn would make a nice replacement for Papi.

Assuming we don’t make big moves this year, we still will have holes at LF and 3b.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Dec 9, 2009 11:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Vmart is no longterm solution at catcher

his time there is coming to an end and he has to move to 1b rather sooner than later. So even with Vmart resigning Mauer is still a target for the sox

by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 9, 2009 11:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know.

If they are really going to extend him, as this article suggests, I’d think they’d want him to catch. Moving him to first permanently would hurt us defensively, as he’s no Youk, and we’d have to move Youk across the diamond.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Dec 9, 2009 11:24 PM EST up reply actions  

That article suggests a lot from V-Mart's agent

I don’t see anything in there from the Sox though. I see Victor as a back-up catcher/1B and more full-time DHing in a few years though.

DFA Beckett

by South Coast Ghost on Dec 9, 2009 11:52 PM EST up reply actions  

where's the data

that says VMart is a detriment defensively at catcher?

Please don’t say Catchers ERA.

I’m not saying VMart doesn’t hurt us at Catcher – but I"m not seeing it when I look at the data. Am I missing something?

I do know that his offensive value over replacement is WAY better if we keep him at C, rather than at 1B.

Does he have knee issues? Is that why folks are suggesting this?

by mmmmm on Dec 10, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions  

really don't much care for crawford

he seems like a lesser ellsbury.

We won’t pick up Mauer. He’s gonna stay in Minn.

I can’t remember where it was but I remember Lee already saying something to the effect of he was looking forward to testing free agency, so I’ll be surprised if he extends with the phillies.

Maybe Dunn will have a change of heart, but so far he’s been opposed to going to any AL teams because he doesn’t want to DH. Honestly with Papi gone, I’d rather have a good hitter who can field a position than a huge slugger who can’t.

by wolf9309 on Dec 10, 2009 12:01 AM EST up reply actions  

personally...

I like to believe that the Sox FO is just much much better than the Yankees FO. I don’t want to just go out and buy all of the best available FAs (like they do) – I’m okay with going into next season with the team that we have. Of course, I wouldn’t be upset if we did pick up a monster through trade :-)

by rmarx on Dec 9, 2009 10:52 PM EST reply actions  

.772 OPS from an LF?

No thanks. Considering LF @ Fenway is the easiest position to play, it would be a total waste.

by Sean O on Dec 9, 2009 11:15 PM EST reply actions  

indeed

If the situations were reversed and our LF were huge compared to our RF, then I could understand the Crawford signing. Plain and simple, we need massive power from our LF, and a basic ability to throw the ball 100’ to the cutoff man.

by Sean O on Dec 10, 2009 12:13 AM EST up reply actions  

I think that if they got Crawford

he would be put in CF.

Ellsbury would be moved to LF where he plays much better defense.

The idea being that that would be a huge defensive upgrade in both spots, which might outweigh the offensive decrease.

by mmmmm on Dec 10, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I seem to remember

that Crawford hates playing CF. So if that was the case, they might not be able to reach an agreement.

by wolf9309 on Dec 10, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

No. Centre.

THIRD BASE!

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

by Bloggy on Dec 10, 2009 7:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Que?

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Dec 10, 2009 7:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Abbot & Costello??

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

by Bloggy on Dec 10, 2009 7:58 PM EST up reply actions  

If 2010 really is a throwaway year...

…Henry and Co better go all out for 2011. Enough with this crap about developing from within all the time, yes it produces very good players occasionally, but both Mauer and Crawford are a cut above. Mauer is the catcher of this generation, we have to go all out for him, or else he’ll be with the MFYs before you know it.

by JordanS on Dec 9, 2009 11:38 PM EST reply actions  

I think he would be with the MFY's regardless, personally

Don’t see why we’d offer a generational talent a generational contract, especially for a physically challenging position such as catcher.

DFA Beckett

by South Coast Ghost on Dec 9, 2009 11:50 PM EST up reply actions  

where does all this impatience come from?

some ppl react as if we have been rebuilding the last years.
Please explain to me why is our team worse next year than this year, when we have:
1. Vmart behind the plate most of the time
2. most likely better results from our 3rd 4th and 5th Starter than last year
3. much better production and about same defense at SS?

There is still time to find a LF! You cant make very cheap deals with the best FA early.
Its not just you, but the likelihood that that the 2010 Red Sox are a better team than the 2009 Red Sox is high in my eyes.

by German Red Sox Fan on Dec 10, 2009 12:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Fine...

But the 2009 Red Sox were already dramatically behind the Yankees, and they’ve already improved dramatically more than we have (will?) this offseason.

by Sean O on Dec 10, 2009 1:00 AM EST up reply actions  

lowell

Mikey is a good player and going to hit 25 bombs and get 90 rbi’s. His defense will be better with his hip fully healed, so why is everyone a hater? Plus everyone of his rbi’s seem to come when it matters, I say he is the most clutch guy we have. why is everyone wanting to dump him?

the difference between a yankee stadium hot dog and a Fenway frank is that they dont sell yankee dogs in October anymore.

by fishfarmr on Dec 9, 2009 11:55 PM EST reply actions  

his defense will be better

IFF His hip is fully healed. I’ve seen no increase in his mobility over the year, I’m skeptical. I’d rather have someone I know can defend well.

It’s not being a hater, I love Lowell. Just last season he didn’t prove he can play 3b full time and right now it’s not in our best interest to have him playing every day. He wants to play every day. So we’re not really a good fit together right now. Better for everyone if we can find a good home for him.

by wolf9309 on Dec 10, 2009 12:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Whats wrong with putting a band aid on this season?

Maybe signing a solid defensive catcher like bengie molina who swings a good enough bat while letting vmart play 1st and youk to 3rd. martinez showed me a lot at 1st last year. With a declining lowell and ortiz on the squad needing time off equally, let them take turns DHing depending on the handedness of the opposing starting pitcher? And as far as signing bay, i think it would be the biggest waste of money we could possibly spend. The guy plays below average defense and can’t hit an outside fastball, which all teams know now. That slump in midseason wasn’t because he just got cold, it was because people learned how to pitch to him. Waste of money. Let him go wherever. We can put a band-aid on it and still make the postseason and make some noise there without him.

by David Harnden on Dec 10, 2009 12:02 AM EST reply actions  

what did Martinez show you at first last year?

He’s an alright first baseman, but nothing special. He can still catch, Bengie wants a 3-year deal and is not worth the sox signing that long.

You want to use up two roster spots on platooning the DH spot??

The slump midseason was because he was cold. The american league doesn’t have one mind. It’s not like all of a sudden all of the pitchers got together and figured out how to pitch so he couldn’t hit, and then all forgot at the same time later in the year. I do agree that re-signing him is a bad move on several levels.

by wolf9309 on Dec 10, 2009 12:06 AM EST up reply actions  

VMart is much more valuable as a Catcher

than at 1B.

He is competent defensively at both, but his offense really shines when compared to other Catchers. If you make him a 1B, then you have to compare his offense to other 1Bs – and there his value is still good, but not great.

I don’t have a problem with a band-aid approach while we await the 2011 free-agent class (as well as the development of some prospects) but if so, i’d rather the infielf solution was with VMart at Catcher, Youk at 3rd and Kotchman at first base. Kotchman is an above-average defensive firstbaseman so his overall value is probably close to average. Meanwhile, having Youk at 3rd and VMart at C are both well above average value.

Unlike some others, I have a little faith that Big Papi is good for at least one more solid year at DH. Whatever happened in those first two months, he was fine after June 1st.

Rob Bradford on WEEI this morning said he believes that the current Red Sox plans for the outfield are:

Plan A) Bay – mainly because he will probably be cheaper than Holliday
Plan B) Holiday – due to Boras
Plan C) Cameron – for one year, probably in CF, moving Ellsbury to LF. Upgrades defense significantly, though with a decrease in offense.

by mmmmm on Dec 10, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Rosenthal says preliminary deal to send Lowell to the Rangers is in place

“Prelim agreement on Lowell to Tex for Max Ramirez. Red Sox owners must approve, teams must be satisfied with medicals. Red Sox eating nearly all of 12 salary”

http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal

I’m guessing the Sox weren’t confident about Lowell being at least be average defensively next year at 3B.

DFA Beckett

by South Coast Ghost on Dec 10, 2009 12:22 AM EST reply actions  

Are they gonna DH Lowell?

Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.

by CasanovaWong on Dec 10, 2009 12:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Why not platoon at DH?

Lowelly can still play 3rd occasionally, and towards the end of the year, Lowell proved to be a liability at 3rd. Please GOD not another Nick Green vs. Oakland situation… Why bring him back for a full season of pain for him, and the fans? Maybe Bengie isn’t the best option, but why not explore something different, temporary, for just a season? Especially a season half of the NATION has already thrown away? The last time I said “There’s no way the Sox will win it all this year” They did. In the most amazing playoff run I’ve ever seen. We have a great pitching staff, solid hitters, and a below average defense. Need a leader in the clubhouse, better chemistry and better defense. Martinez is good enough at first to hold it down for a year.

by David Harnden on Dec 10, 2009 12:33 AM EST reply actions  

Next Year

Just because the office thinks 2011 looks more optimistic then next year doesnt make next season a lost cause. Its the Red Sox for Gods sake they are not gonna throw away a season

by cnubsbl16 on Dec 10, 2009 12:33 AM EST reply actions  

2010 season hasn't even started..

  The Sox are doomed if they are competing against the 2009 MFY. They aren’t, They are competing against the 2010 MFY, and 2010 AL teams. They are going to be injuries pratfalls, pitchers with good 2009 years with 2010 bad stats. The Sox won’t have 2009 Papi etc.

What makes or breaks playoff bound teams is starting pitching. We have four good starting pitching, they can all give good performances. We had some warts in the bullpen, but it is still one of the best in the AL, there were some holes in the batting lineup but still some serious threats.

Half of the game isn’t the Bill James next season predictions, but how does better and who does worse than expected.

I think Dwight Eisenhower said it is easy to farm when your field is a piece of paper, your plowshare is a pencil and you are six hundred miles away from a farm, you can’t predict a clear picture of the 2010 season on previous years stats alone, you may get some trends and some blurry images, but the season is a marathon, and every team takes it bumps and bruises during the season.

If people are going to get all mopey, then the 2006 season showed the 2007 season was a wash out, and the Sox should had flew the White Flag early.. instead we know what happened, and there were many unexpected surprises.

by superferret on Dec 10, 2009 2:43 AM EST reply actions  

This is funny

Youre still the second best team in the A.L,Scutaro is better then anything the Sox had last yr,even if Papi is completely shot and Bay is not Resigned nobody has surplanted them.This team won 90 some games last yr.Pitching is still top notch and that will always keep you in it. Realistically all you need to possibly pass MFY is for Pettite to show his age,Joba to do what he does and whatever pitcher my Yanks sign to struggle in Ny and your there.That said alot can happen between now and then but your far from having a lost season.I hope that never happens this is to much fun to watch.

by cashman bashman on Dec 10, 2009 6:00 PM EST reply actions  

Thank you.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Dec 10, 2009 6:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually if the two MFY players that falter

Teixiera and Sabathia, the Yankees are kind of screwed. Sabathia is the bigger concern, because he is way overweight, he pitches like a mule, and Girardi relied on him heavily during the season. Also if his slider/change up doesn’t have that movement, he is screwed. If I was Cashman, I would demand that Sabathia lose weight because how much the MFY are paying him and for so many years…

Teixiera only needs a collision at first on a close play, and he could be on the DL for some time. The big problem with the 8 year contracts that the MFY tend to use, are the Giambis instead of the Jeters.

Also certain Sox fans who may use “Fight Club” as an inspiration, and start “Project Mayhem”, and blow up Coors Park East, which would destroy the MFY slugging percentage, and the inflated stats of the whining pussies of a scum sucking team.

by superferret on Dec 10, 2009 8:41 PM EST up reply actions  

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