Red Sox Linup and Rotation of the Decade
by bard60 on Dec 31, 2009 8:44 PM EST
67 comments
This is the Red Sox All Decade Team that consists of the best players in their respectable positions that were of great value and importance to the success of the Red Sox in this decade.
C Jason Varitek
3B Mike Lowell
SS Nomar Garciapara
CF Johnny Damon
RF Trot Nixon
DH David "Big Papi" Ortiz
SP Josh Beckett
SP Derek Lowe
Any Complaints?
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Bellhorn
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
I have a five-tool player in my pants.
by Bloggy on Dec 31, 2009 9:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Red Sox Linup and Rotation of the Decade
c tek
1b youk
2b mark bellhorn or jose offerman, or maybe that little guy that currently plays 2nd
ss orlando cabara – sawx traded the original cry baby quitter nomar for orlando – what does that say?
3b shea hillenbrand
rf jd – as much as i liked trot – he sucked
cf carl everette or ellsbury – i’d even take willy moe penis over johnny d – he plays for the yankers – get your priorities straight!!
lf manny manchild the 2nd cry baby quitter but he played and contributed for our 2 winners
dh pappi on roids
sp pedro
sp shill
sp lowe – 20 saves in 2001, 20 wins in 2002, game winner 2004 – no brainer
sp josh
sp lester or bonzer but to early to tell
bull pen pablano
bp kevin fake
bp uggli urbina
bp okajima
bp mike timlin
mgr grady little – just joshing – terry
gm – puckette – theo traded an all star pitcher rep’ the reds – charles bronson arroyo for willie mo, traded for gagme, purchased julio, dumped renteria & gonzalez (twice) , let lowe go early, johny damon, failed to figure out ss – a somewhat important position, has yet to develop a catching prospect even to be a back up 2nd strgr. for the decade free agent signings jd, smelltz, not worth a penny. the best move theo did was quit so some 9 year old kid could pull off the beck/lowell trade. get holliday, then trade for gonzo – even if it takes ellsbury – quit being a suit & tie!!! grow a couple and become part of the nation!!
owner of the decade john w henry
all time owner harry fazee
by Mick Lowe on Jan 2, 2010 9:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Way to ignore Theo's main contribution:
A farm system which has produced:
Jon Lester
Dustin Pedroia
Jacoby Ellsbury
Jonathan Papelbon
Hanley Ramirez (the piece to acquire Beckett and Lowell, so you can include either)
The pieces to acquire Victor Martinez
And has guys like Clay Buchholz, Jed Lowrie, and Daniel Bard just starting to make a difference.
To say nothing of the fact that, right now, it stands as one of the deepest systems in the league despite drafting towards the end every year?
How about all the guys you name in your list? Ortiz? Shilling? Okajima? Cabrera? How about Kevin Millar? How about assembling the 2004 World Series winning team?
Respect the Theo, for he has done much.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jan 3, 2010 3:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And DO not, I repeat DO not, hate on JD Drew.
We don’t like it when people hate on JD Drew.
by A Guy on Jan 3, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hanley Ramirez was from Duquette era
Ramirez was signed in July, 2000.
by Butch Hobson's elbo chips on Jan 5, 2010 11:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Even grading on the "clearly retarded" curve...
…this post is FAIL
Rock me, sexy Jesus...
by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 4, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't even really like Theo
and I think this post is ridiculous.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
by Sean O on Jan 4, 2010 9:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lester
I think from the few seasons he has had he deserves to be on that list. Now who to bump out, I don’t know. But he came up and very quickly became who I consider the ace of the current Red Sox staff.
by kraken613 on Dec 31, 2009 9:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Nope.
Lowe was awesome.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Jan 2, 2010 12:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So far Lester has doubled Lowe's total number of great seasons starting in his 2-year career.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jan 2, 2010 5:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lester is a better pitcher.
But Lowe brought us that 2004 World Series. And Lowe did the suck-it to the A’s in 2003, which was awesome.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Jan 2, 2010 6:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What Lowe did against the Yankees was tremendous.
I don’t think Lester’s done more than Lowe…But I think what he has done has been of a higher quality, I guess.
It’s just the different approaches to formulating the list, I guess.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jan 3, 2010 3:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lowe will always be one of my favorites. But I’m the kind of guy that prefers alcohoclic wife-cheaters to cancer survivors. So I guess that says more about me than anything else.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Jan 4, 2010 3:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lowe brought us that 2004 World Series
Bull. Anyone who actually watches the Red Sox HATED Derek Lowe that year. He was the worst regular starting pitcher in the American League in 2004. I was pissed he even made the postseason roster – which he made as a long reliever.
Lowe was up and down and switched between the pen and rotation. He had good years in both and crappy years in both. No way I take him over Lester.
by alskor on Jan 4, 2010 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He was downright heroic in the postseason, though.
Still, too much bad mixed in with his good. Gimme Lester.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jan 4, 2010 11:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone who actually watches the Red Sox LOVES Derek Lowe after the post-season.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Jan 5, 2010 12:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I did
But that doesnt qualify him for Rotation of the Decade.
by alskor on Jan 5, 2010 12:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know you watch the Sox, so did I.
And the “anyone who actually watches the Sox” argument is as dumb as it is annoying.
Some of my greatest Sox memories came when Lowe was on the mound, which alone qualifies him for the team in my mind.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Jan 5, 2010 1:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He was only in the Red Sox rotation for 3 full seasons in the last decade, even
One good year, One so-so year, one godawful year.
Two as a Closer – one great, one I wanted to strangle him.
How can he possibly make it over Lester? No possible rationale for it.
by alskor on Jan 5, 2010 12:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Some actual facts:
Lowe pitched 788.2 innings in the 2000’s for the Sox with a FIP of 3.75 over that period. Lester has pitched 558 innings at a FIP of 3.78.
So, Lowe performed almost exactly the same as Lester and pitched 200 more innings. Lowe accomplished this in the most dominant offensive era in the history of baseball. This doesn’t even take into account his post-season heroics.
But there’s no possible rationale to even make the comparison, so you probably shouldn’t bother looking at the numbers.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Jan 5, 2010 2:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You're including reliever FIPs, I assume, which need to be adjusted massively compared to starter FIPs.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jan 5, 2010 2:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True.
Just doing a quick and dirty comparison to disprove alskor’s absurd statement that there is “no possible rationale for” Lowe over Lester on the team.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Jan 5, 2010 11:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
TROT
Favorite Sox player of all time so this list gets my approval…
by ritz on Dec 31, 2009 10:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
mueller at third
and i cant really see wakefield being one of our five best starters. i’d put lester instead.
by revived0103 on Dec 31, 2009 10:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I second,
Mueller. Also, honorary mentions Kevin Millar and Keith Foulke. And Wakefield deserves to be there.
And, come on, Papelbon!?!?!?!. Closer of the Decade: Number 83, Eric Gagne!
"We're not going to give up," It doesn't happen, so who cares? There's always next year. It's not like it's the end of the world."-Manny Ramirez
by revigik on Dec 31, 2009 10:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
U can’t take Lowell out tho. Mueller was good but Lowell was a ws MVP
by cnubsbl16 on Jan 2, 2010 11:38 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
So?
David Eckstein was a WS MVP and I wouldn’t put him on a Cardinals lineup of the decade.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jan 2, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mueller won a batting title
There’s a lot of odd awards throughout that don’t tell the whole story.
by BigRedDog42 on Jan 2, 2010 8:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No Wakefield, no "Greatest. Comeback. Ever!"
If Wakefield doesn’t take those innings in the ALCS 2004 Game 3, then even if the Sox win Game 4, who finishes Game 5? The turning point in The Comeback wasn’t The Steal, it was The Mop-Up Job.
Game 3: Mendoza 1.0 IP, Leskanic 0.1 IP, Wakefield 3.1 IP, Embree 0.1 IP, Myers 2.0 IP
Game 4: Timlin 1.0 IP, Foulke 2.2 IP, Embree 1.2 IP, Myers 0.0 IP, Leskanic 1.1 IP
Game 5: Timlin 1.2 IP, Foulke 1.1 IP, Arroyo 1.0 IP, Myers 0.1 IP, Embree 0.2 IP, Wakefield 3.0 IP
Game 6: Arroyo 1.0 IP, Foulke 1.0 IP
Game 7: Martinez 1.0 IP, Timlin 1.2 IP, Embree 0.1 IP
That’s 27.1 innings pitched on five consecutive days. Without Wakefield’s propensity for eating up innings, the Sox bullpen would have pitched itself out of the series.
by lone1c on Jan 3, 2010 6:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
don't forget back up/relief
mrp: dice k, lester
lrp: okajima
su: foulke
more players that should be on our roster:
c – victor martinez
3b – bill mueller
ss – jed lowerie
cf – jacoby ellsbury
rf – jd drew
by redsoxownu on Jan 1, 2010 3:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don't think VMart gets on after just half a season.
He may be one of the better players we’ve had if you aren’t going to give every position a backup, def don’t give one to catcher.
Millar should definitely be on here too. Probably Cabrera instead of Lowrie at short too. Maybe Alex Gonzalez but definitely not Lowrie.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
by Rogue Nine on Jan 1, 2010 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Need Timlin.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Jan 2, 2010 12:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Love Millar
I love kevin millar, one of my favorite players, but honestly, youk has produced much more than millar. I still love u maillar.
by bard60 on Jan 1, 2010 1:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Depends on the criteria.
“Best player” vs. “embedded in Sox lore” vs. “decade achievement,” etc. I can justify all of your picks, and I could justify Drew and Lester.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jan 1, 2010 9:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i tried to justify drew.
i couldn’t. he’s had one year where he’s played more than 110 games and put up good numbers. Trot put up about five.
by revived0103 on Jan 2, 2010 1:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't figure out how to justify Drew over Nixon.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jan 2, 2010 5:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Trot had one season better than Drew's last two, by OPS+.
Trot’s 2003 was great. And he was an OG Dirt Dog. But he was overrated.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jan 2, 2010 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yes i know
but two things: nixon was slightly less good for way longer, and drew has only put up one good year where he played more than 110 games, like i said above.
by revived0103 on Jan 2, 2010 7:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is basically my opinion on it.
Drew and Nixon aren’t so far apart offensively. Nixon has the best and worst year. It’s hard to say. In this case, maybe the tiebreaker should go to Drew for postseason performance? Nixon was only any good in ’03.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jan 3, 2010 3:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Uh, excuse me
Nixon couldn’t sniff the Mendoza line vs. Lefties and Drew is the better fielder
by BobZupcic on Jan 3, 2010 5:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They were both good fielders.
And if he sucked vs. lefties, that means he just put up much better numbers vs. righties to manage similar season numbers to Drew.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jan 3, 2010 5:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Worst Lineup of the Decade?
I know Josh Bard is playing catcher and Lugo is playing short stop but after that, it gets tough.
by BigRedDog42 on Jan 3, 2010 2:01 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Craig Grebeck at SS.
was that this decade?
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Jan 4, 2010 3:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Drew gets zero respect
Trade Beckett !!!
by gizmosandy on Jan 3, 2010 8:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Jan 3, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll end this Mueller v. Lowell discussion
If you know me, it’s an easy answer:
Bill Freakin’ Mueller.
SB Nation's Boston Red Sox community:
OverTheMonster.com
Follow Randy on Twitter: @RCBooth
by Randy Booth on Jan 4, 2010 1:01 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I gotta think in the case of players who are close
preference has to be given to the 2004 players. But that’s probably nostalgia talking. I think, though, in cases like Mueller vs. Lowell and Nixon vs. Drew, I’d go for the ones that broke the drought.
by wolf9309 on Jan 4, 2010 10:47 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I believe Gabe Kapler was in RF when the Sox broke the drought
:-)
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jan 4, 2010 11:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and i LIKE Kapler
for what he was. But obviously he’s not the same level. Yeah.
by wolf9309 on Jan 4, 2010 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Using OPS+ and ERA+
Top Seasons by Position using OPS+ and ERA+ (I realize that no defense was involved in this, but what the heck)
C – Varitek (05) – 122
1B – Youkilis (09) – 145
2B – Pedroia (08) – 122
3B – Mueller (03) – 140
SS – Nomah (00) – 155
LF – Ramirez (02) – 184
CF – Damon (04) – 117
RF – Nixon (03) – 149
DH – Ortiz (07) – 171
SP – Pedro (00) – 291
SP – Lowe (02) – 177
SP – Schilling (04) – 150
SP – Beckett (07) – 145
SP – Lester (08) – 144
CL – Papelbon (06) – 515 (that’s not a typo!)
RP – Foulke (04) – 225
RP – Okajima (07) – 214
RP – Timlin (05) – 202
by BobZupcic on Jan 4, 2010 5:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
WAR
Same List Using WAR
C – Varitek (04) – 4.7
1B – Youkilis (08/09) – 5.6
2B – Pedroia (08) – 6.7
3B – Lowell (07) – 5.3
SS – Nomah (02/03) – 5.6 (No UZR Stats prior to 02)
LF – Ramirez (03) – 7.3
CF – Damon (02) – 4.5
RF – Nixon (03) – 4.9
DH – Ortiz (07) – 6.7
SP – Pedro (02) – 8.3 (No WAR stats prior to 02)
SP – Lowe (02) – 6.0
SP – Schilling (04) – 7.3
SP – Beckett (07) – 6.5
SP – Lester (09) – 6.2
CL – Papelbon (06) – 3.2
RP – Foulke (04) – 2.1
RP – Okajima (07) – 1.5, Delcarmen (08) – 1.5
RP – Timlin (05) – 2.2
by BobZupcic on Jan 4, 2010 5:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
291 ERA+ for Pedro
He was simply playing a different game from everyone else in history.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
by Sean O on Jan 4, 2010 9:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Amen
That is the second highest ERA+ EVER! and the highest in the modern era. I saw him pitch while living in Seattle in 2002 and the entire Mariner team hit 2 balls out of the infield that day.
Some more from that season
217 IP – 128 Hits — That is a ridiculous 5 hits allowed per 9 innings the entire season.
Held the entire league to a 0.173 BA….
Man was unhittable
by BobZupcic on Jan 5, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rotation/Lineup of the new decade:
C — Victor Martinez
1B — Kevin Youkilis
2B — Dustin Pedroia
3B — Adrian Beltre
SS — Marco Scutaro
OF — JD Drew
OF — Jacoby Ellsbury
OF — Mike Cameron
SP — Jon Lester
SP — Josh Beckett
SP — John Lackey
SP — Clay Buchholz
SP — Daisuke Matsuzaka
SP/LRP — Tim Wakefield
CL — Jonathan Papelbon
RP — Daniel Bard
RP — Hideki Okajima
RP — Many Delcarmen
RP — Ramon Ramirez
God it’s nice to have some things to be sure of.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jan 5, 2010 2:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
That's just our team right now...
I’m sure you intended that, but I’ll make some changes:
LF: Ellsbury
CF: Westmoreland
SP: Lester, Beckett, Lackey, Buchholz, KELLY
SS: Jose Iglesias
3B: Not Beltre because he’ll probably be around for one year only. Maybe Youk?
by Schulz on Jan 5, 2010 9:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Team of the Decade: 2010-2019
Player and method/rationale of aquisition:
1B – Pujols – free agent, convinced by Steinbrenner AL-E place to be, but Teixeria wouldn’t move to DH for him.
2B – player to be named later that will win Rookie of year honors in 2018
SS – Jeter – Free agent, decided to play on a real team (not just a collection of high-paid stars) for the final years of his career
3B – Youkilis
RF – Holliday, moved because could not handle wall, aquired via trade with StL when revenues decline post-departure of Pujols
CF – player to be named later, acquired from non-contender after earning major (RoY/MVP) honors
LF – Ellsbury – who knows he could play the wall so well???
SP – Lester
SP – Beckett
SP – Halliday, free agent, came over to make life difficult for sportscasters and laundry boys, wears a number easily confused with Holliday’s…
SP – Some Japanese guy that comes over in 2015
SP – Player to be named later, product of our farm system
LRP – Wakefield – eats up 150 innings/year when 50-53
MRP – R. Johnson – “unretires” to stick it to Mariners during post-season
MRP – Matsuzaka – pitches 3+ innings daily taking every 5th day off
SRP – Okajima – relieves Matsuzaka
CP – Player to be named later, big name free agent signing when Matsuzaka returns to Japan
by Silver Paladin on Jan 6, 2010 3:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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