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Around SBN: The Gift Of The 2003 Tigers

Mets To Sign Jason Bay

Jason Bay is going to the Mets, according to New York radio station WFAN's Mike Francesca.

The deal is supposedly worth $66 million dollars over 4 years, with a vesting option in 2014 for $14 million or more. Depending on the stipulations of the vesting option, that could basically mean that Bay got the 5th year he was looking for.

Because the Mets are in the top-15 picks of the draft, the Red Sox will only receive their 2nd round pick to go with the supplemental pick. At the moment, this leaves the Red Sox with 2 supplemental picks added on to a standard draft, having lost a 1st and 2nd rounder to the signings of John Lackey and Marco Scutaro, and gained a 1st and 2nd rounder from the loss of Billy Wagner and Jason Bay.

Though Jason Bay was popular in his relatively short tenure in Boston, there were concerns about his defense, and how well his offense would last as he aged. Though in recent days there had been rumors of renewed interest in Bay from the team, it seems unlikely that they ever offered more than the 4 years and 60 million dollars they offered Bay earlier in the year.

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I'm glad the guy is getting paid

He has played alot of good ball over the years for little pay, he deserves the money, I am just glad we aren’t paying it.

by drabidea on Dec 29, 2009 4:09 PM EST reply actions  

Agreed

Though if the reported parameters are accurate, I don’t want to hear any more about how Bay really wanted to stay in Boston. For an extra $6M guaranteed and optional fifth year at $14M, he’s going somewhere with a much higher cost of living and higher taxes. He’s not going to end up with much more money than he would have had he settled for four years at $15M/year here.

So either he and his agent badly overestimated the market or he’s just another mercenary. Which is fine — baseball is a business after all. Just don’t tell me you really wanted to stay in Boston.

by RSNexile on Dec 29, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

It does in his tax bracket

In Massachusetts, the state income tax is a flat rate of 5.3%. In New York, the top bracket is 6.85%.

Then there are local taxes. Much higher in the New York metro area than in the Boston metro area.

by RSNexile on Dec 29, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok,

I just remember people calling Massachusetts – Tax-achusett and my father bitching about the property taxes on his house on Cape Cod.

by SoxAcumen on Dec 29, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, taxes are high here

But they’re still lower than in New York if you’re a big earner.

And was your father a full-time resident of Cape Cod? I hear the same complaints from a lot of people I know — seasonal residents don’t want to pay full property taxes because they don’t live there all year. But the rates aren’t any higher in Cape Cod than they are in the rest of the state — in fact, I’m pretty sure they’re lower on average.

by RSNexile on Dec 29, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Wait -- those are 2008 numbers

Here’s 2009:

Massachusetts — still 5.3%
New York — 8.97% on income above $500,000; slightly lower in lower tax brackets (so the vast majority of Bay’s income is taxed at 8.97%)

So the disparity is even greater than I thought. And New York City itself charges personal income tax, up to 3.648% last I checked; Boston doesn’t.

by RSNexile on Dec 29, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

From my 6+ years in MA

I think the only taxes below the state level are property taxes, and various assessments (for cars, etc.).

by lone1c on Dec 29, 2009 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Correct

Though I think sales tax is effectively handled locally.

by RSNexile on Dec 29, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Key word: effectively

It is statewide, but I’m pretty sure municipalities have the right to impose additional local sales taxes, and I think most of the revenue from sales tax stays in the area where it is collected. So while it may be a state tax, it functions as a local tax.

by RSNexile on Dec 29, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

That's only in the 5 burroughs.

Most of the Mets roster currently owns homes on lawn giland.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Stephen Schmidt on Dec 29, 2009 6:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Where you work

The Mets would have to withhold NYC taxes because they’re based in one of the five boroughs.

by RSNexile on Dec 29, 2009 7:02 PM EST up reply actions  

well judging by the fact that Urbon came back to the Sox

he was probably hoping for more/elsewhere, but the Sox offer was off the table at that point

by wolf9309 on Dec 29, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Which makes Urbon an idiot

“Hey, I know you guys already got my client’s replacement and spent the money you were willing to pay him on a pitcher instead, but could you give us just a little more money than you offered before?”

Gigantic moron.

by RSNexile on Dec 29, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

which is why Bay should fire his ass

Most sport agents talk a great game but are really poor representatives. Bay should of just found a lawyer to do the work for $500/hour and saved himself a couple million in commissions.

by SoxAcumen on Dec 29, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

True

but in the end the fault lies with the player since he has the final decision. I am sure he baught what Urbon was feeding him, but that only means that he overvalued his skills as much as Urbon did…

by Buzzy on Dec 29, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

bought

wow-that SP is even worse than usual …

by Buzzy on Dec 29, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

Completely True….tired of hearing Bay “really wanted to be in Boston”

by cnubsbl16 on Dec 29, 2009 7:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Best of Luck J. Bay

though I think latter in life you will regret not resigning with the Sox in August and you should probably fire your agent for being a complete dumbass and not looking at the “real” market for his client.

But I hope you do well in NY and that the Sox see ya in the 2010 WS, bc I know the Sox can beat any Met team.

by SoxAcumen on Dec 29, 2009 4:15 PM EST reply actions  

Sandy will be pleased.

You see, you spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball, and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. ~Jim Bouton, Ball Four, 1970

by BoldandBrash on Dec 29, 2009 4:19 PM EST reply actions  

Too bad for all concerned

Bay seemed to have been a good fit for the clubhouse, and his offensive production was nothing to sneeze at.

However, the Mets and Bay are not probably a good fit—right now they really need someone who can produce for power in the cavern that is Citi Field, and also someone who can really lead the club. They’re not getting that with Bay. And with the contract he has, it’s going to be even more difficult to move him if it doesn’t work out—unless they do what the Sox have done and pick up most of his tab for the next few years.

(Random question: if the Mets have tanked by the trade deadline, and Bay isn’t working out, what happens then?)

by lone1c on Dec 29, 2009 4:26 PM EST reply actions  

why do you say that?

Bay is one of the only guys who actually can hit in that LF. PNC park is actually bigger in LF than Citi. Aslo had a (ever so slightly) worse overall HR park factor. Bay clobbers the ball-he was one of the Sox least aided by Fenway.

by Buzzy on Dec 29, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Hmm, you may be right

On the other hand, I don’t think the Mets are looking forward to his defense in that enormous left field.

by lone1c on Dec 29, 2009 5:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Good luck Jason (sincerely)

We all have to remember this is the player’s business. Sure, when it’s not us, we can easily turn down an extra 2, 3 or 10 million, but hard to do that when your faced with the choice. Would I move to NY for more double my current earnings? With a guaranteed conract? You bet your ass.
These guys are not Sox fans and not from here. Bay is from W. Canada. Now when Delcarmen comes up……

by Scoop1981 on Dec 29, 2009 5:12 PM EST reply actions  

Still

There’s something to be said for playing for a contender in a place where you know you’re comfortable. I think had we offered him that vesting option for a 5th year with a slightly lower value for the first four years he probably would have chosen us over the Mets.

by Gnick on Dec 29, 2009 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Without absurdly bad luck (in injuries, like last year), the Mets will contend.

"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw

by BTLove on Dec 30, 2009 1:10 AM EST up reply actions  

It's not absurdly back luck

When you construct your roster full of aging, injury prone players. Even with a healthier roster I see the Phillies as being pretty far ahead of them.

by Gnick on Dec 30, 2009 2:36 AM EST up reply actions  

I'd agree

That without absurdly bad luck the Mets will have a good offense next year. But they’ve got absolutely no pitching behind Santana.

by brogshan on Dec 30, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

And possibly the Marlins too

Though they may still be a year or two away from contending.

by RSNexile on Dec 30, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Reyes and Beltran are not exactly aging.

"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw

by BTLove on Dec 31, 2009 2:11 AM EST up reply actions  

and Wright

"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw

by BTLove on Dec 31, 2009 2:11 AM EST up reply actions  

meh

He was good when he was here, I’m not gonna lose my mind now that he’s gone. So, meh.

I’d feel a little better if the Lackey signing gave me the warm fuzzies, but I don’t know if any FA signing ever will.

Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway

by Sean O on Dec 29, 2009 5:23 PM EST reply actions  

Yes !!

Don’t let the door hit ya Jason good luck in that park.

Miguel Cabrera IS the solution to our problems.
Release Jason Varitek before ST is over !
Do not pay Jason Bay !!
Trade Buchholz !!!

by gizmosandy on Dec 29, 2009 6:00 PM EST reply actions  

He will hit .250 with 20 bombs….not worth that kind of money in that ballpark

by cnubsbl16 on Dec 29, 2009 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

well D-Wright went from 33 homeruns to 10….thats a BIG drop. Maybe theres more to do with it but i think the park had a lot to do with it

by cnubsbl16 on Dec 29, 2009 7:50 PM EST up reply actions  

as I said

Bay does not hit cheapies. Look at his road splits and his number in PNC which has an absoutely huge left center field.

And in other (more interesting) news:
http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/mlb/news/story?id=4779997

by Buzzy on Dec 29, 2009 7:52 PM EST up reply actions  

still not sold hes going from a short porch in left to a huge field….i still see him around 20

by cnubsbl16 on Dec 29, 2009 8:01 PM EST up reply actions  

he hit 21 road homers last year

and while his overall OBP numbers were better in Fenway, his slugging was lower at Fenway than on the road. He has hit 35 or so homers in a bigger LF.

by Buzzy on Dec 29, 2009 8:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok heres the real question

Is he going to hit 3 and Dwright hit 4 or the other way around. If he bats behind Wright and is his protection i dont think he will have more than 20 or so. But if they put Wright behind him maybe he will. However it seems to me that Wright will be 3 and Bay 4

by cnubsbl16 on Dec 29, 2009 9:35 PM EST up reply actions  

that's more likely.

Bay doesn’t really strike me as a great 3 hitter just because he k’s so much.

by wolf9309 on Dec 29, 2009 9:37 PM EST up reply actions  

yea

and he would be better protection than the aged Delgado was

by cnubsbl16 on Dec 29, 2009 10:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I heard on MLB network

That the Mets did just as poorly offensively on the road than they did at home. I’m not sure how poorly all of their performance was due to the park. Plus it seemed like Wright had more issues.

by brogshan on Dec 29, 2009 11:36 PM EST up reply actions  

well

I still think the park was a big part of it. I could be wrong but i know in baseball players are their best when they get into a rhythm and there were a lot of players complaining of how much of a pitchers park the new Mets stadium was. And i think that negativity carried over to their road games

by cnubsbl16 on Dec 29, 2009 11:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t see Jason ending up like another Mets bust, he’s been steadily consistent over the last 3 or 4 years. I don’t think he’ll have the MVP like numbers he had this season, but he’ll be a decent 3 or 5 hitter in the NL.

by JaySo on Dec 29, 2009 8:02 PM EST up reply actions  

strikes out too much to be a 3 hitter and doesnt hit for good enough average. He could be a solid 5 tho. But nothing like the season he had last year.

by cnubsbl16 on Dec 30, 2009 12:09 AM EST up reply actions  

I can’t wait to see by season’s end if John Lackey is worth more than Jason.

by adubson on Dec 29, 2009 6:29 PM EST reply actions  

Would have liked a 1st round pick for him

But whatever, we essentially moved up our 1st and 2nd round picks and got two sandwich picks in the middle. Sounds pretty good to me.

DFA Beckett

by South Coast Ghost on Dec 29, 2009 6:59 PM EST reply actions  

Klaw discusses his D

and guesses he probably isn’t as bad as UZR says.

The question of whether this is a reasonable deal for the Mets or a massive overpay revolves around the question of just how far below average Bay’s left-field defense is. Various advanced defensive metrics, including UZR, all show him as awful during the past three years, starting in his injury-wrecked 2007 season and continuing through his year-plus in Boston. Evaluating defense (quantitatively, that is) in Fenway is difficult because of the park’s unique dimensions in left and center field, and it’s possible that the metrics are all underrating Bay because of that factor. His range is fringe-average, and he reads the ball fine off the bat, but his first move isn’t quick (maybe a remnant of his earlier knee injury), and his arm limits him to left field anyway.

I think there’s a strong chance that Bay will outperform defensive expectations to the point where his salary no longer seems out of line with his performance because he’ll do the things at the plate — get on base and hit for power — that pay the bills.

Here (need a membership).

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Dec 29, 2009 9:24 PM EST reply actions  

I think

the Sox had issues with Bay beyond defense which partially goes to the “first move” issue. It is claimed that both his shoulder and knee were issues to the Sox, and they did not think we was a lock to hold up. I am also willing to bet (beer?) that defensive metrics still show him to suck next year. He might not be a 10-15 but I bet he is a 5-10. He seems to take soooo long to move in on balls (we had that disucussion during the year) and he also (in a SS) had bad numbers in PNC after the knee injury. I still think the Fenway issue is overblown (see Manny’s numbers last year) and I am also sure the Sox have something better than UZR anyway to gauge his D.

by Buzzy on Dec 30, 2009 7:14 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not saying the Sox should've kept him.

And there are certainly questions as to whether he’ll break down over the life of the contract. But I like that Klaw is with me in suggesting that Bay’s D isn’t as bad as UZR would suggest.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Dec 30, 2009 9:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Hope we get Holliday for 90 million

Miguel Cabrera IS the solution to our problems.
Release Jason Varitek before ST is over !
Do not pay Jason Bay !!
Trade Buchholz !!!

by gizmosandy on Dec 29, 2009 9:38 PM EST reply actions  

I hope we can get him for $5 million

::shrug:: while we’re hoping.

I’d be very very surprised if we signed anymore really big contracts this offseason.

by wolf9309 on Dec 29, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm with you.

I don’t see it happening. This season is an offensive “bridge” year.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Dec 29, 2009 10:08 PM EST up reply actions  

The most I can see us doing is a Beltre-type player

That’s about it.

If we sign Holliday I’ll be surprised and pleased

DFA Beckett

by South Coast Ghost on Dec 30, 2009 12:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Is that in the same alternate reality

where we get Hanley Ramirez while keeping Buch, Westmoreland, Reddick, Kalish and Kelly…

Rock me, sexy Jesus...

by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 30, 2009 1:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Also Pujols

In that alternate reality, we trade Lowell to the Cardinals for Pujols and cash. After all, Pujols does make more money than Lowell and it would only be fair for the Cardinals to cover the difference!

by RSNexile on Dec 30, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

We can't.

We got Lackey for 90 million instead.

(I know…I know…83 or whatever…)

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

I have a five-tool player in my pants.

by Bloggy on Dec 30, 2009 10:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Adam LaRoche guys.

Adam LaRoche is now a much better fit for the Sox than he was last summer when he lasted for six games before the Sox realized he was a good everyday player who was being asked to fill a part time role and therefor didn’t fit. He is a good defensive 1B allowing the Sox to move Youk to 3B and move Lowell into a roll where he can rest more. He has a .277Average and 25 Hr in mausoleums. In Fenway he should have better success. He should be available for somewhere in the middle of what the Sox paid for Scutoro and Cameron. He adds to Defense and Offense, and allows the Sox to stay within the Salary cap and saves those millions for Next year’s Super free Agent market.

by NJ Native on Dec 30, 2009 1:37 AM EST reply actions  

Still would rather have .....

Beltre and keep Youk at 1B. I can see Beltre hitting .270 20-25hr and he will play stellar D at 3rd.

by cthunder on Dec 30, 2009 4:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Adam LaRoche is a fantastic second half player

Lowell is a fantastic first half player. Add them up you’ll have strong production from the corners for only $22 million. :)

by brogshan on Dec 30, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions  

haha

yeah i’d be happy to continue trading for LaRoche every ASB…

by wolf9309 on Dec 31, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

And then trading him away 4 days later.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

I have a five-tool player in my pants.

by Bloggy on Dec 31, 2009 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

And me confused.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

I have a five-tool player in my pants.

by Bloggy on Dec 31, 2009 6:17 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah

I would have much rather had LaRoche through the stretch last year AND I would much rather not worry about what Kotchman will make in arb.

by wolf9309 on Dec 31, 2009 6:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Well...Thats it...WTF, RED SOX?!!!

Now you NEED TO GO GET MATT HOLLIDAY, or the Yankees have won again…SON OF A @#$%&*(^!!!!!!

by Patriot1 on Dec 30, 2009 5:37 AM EST reply actions  

Nope.

We just need to either (a) sign Beltre or (b) wait until the trading deadline and get A-Gon.

We already spent most of our cash for this off-season and will probably not be buying Holiday.

The lineup even now is a lot stronger than most of the MSM is capable of understanding. Certainly better than it was going into last year.

Remember, we started last year with Varitek as the everyday catcher. All those at bats now go to VMart.

We also spent the first few months with the offensive/defensive wreck that was Lugo/Green/etc. We finished with decent defense/offense there with Alex Gonzalez, but this year we will be generally upgraded in both qualities with Scutaro. He should provide similar quality defense to Gonzo while being noticeably better at getting on base over the course of a whole season.

I don’t expect Papi to hit 40 HR again, but I can’t believe he will do the same sort of out-of-this-world slump that happened to start last season. If he does, then we may end up inserting Lowell there, if we haven’t traded him. But overall I don’t expect a significant overall drop in production out of DH.

Across the outfield, Ells-Cameron-Drew will provide better NET production over Bay-Ells-Drew because while the offense will drop off the defense will be dramatically improved. It should be one of the best defensive outfields in baseball. And while he’s not Jason Bay, Cameron will provide some pop.

So based on the above, we are significantly better off at Catcher and SS, and IMHO also across the outfield as a whole and should at least hold steady at DH. Pedrioia should be solid at 2nd. That leaves the corners.

Youkilis should be nearing the peak of his career and will produce both offensively and defensively whether at 1B or 3B. If we can get Beltre, then we will be significantly upgraded at the corners because putting Beltre at 3B is a huge improvement over the injured Lowell at 3B last year. If we end up instead putting Youk at 3B and Kotchman at 1B, we lose some offensive production, but the defense at the corners will still be much better than last year.

So overall, I look at the position players and I see a noticeably improved lineup over last year.

On top of that, we should have a much deeper starting rotation. This year, in additon to a top-of-the rotation 1-2-3 punch of of Lester, Beckett & Lackey, we will be counting on a re-energized Dice-K and a mature Buchholz for the 4-5 spots. And Wakefield will be there to provide the occasional spot start and long relief. That is WAY improved over relying on Penney / Smolz and a clearly (in hind-sight) WBC-damaged Dice-K. Both Dice-K and Buchholz were pitching as well as most teams’ #1 & 2 pitchers down the stretch last year. That bodes very well for picking up lots of cheap wins against other team’s #3-4-5 starters during the regular season.

We still have one of the best, most dominating bullpens with Oki, Bard & Paps to close things out. We need to shore up the middle relief, but that’s the easiest part of the puzzle to find.

One last thing – by spending the money on Lackey/Cameron instead of Bay/Holliday (or trading for Halladay), Theo didn’t just purchase a pitcher and an outfielder. He also purchased options. He has retained the potential to trade either Buchholz or Ellsbury if needed to further upgrade the team and you can bet he’s working on various options that might include one or both of those guys.

Okay – sorry for length. But there’s a bigger picture than just the loss of Jason Bay’s bat.

by mmmmm on Dec 30, 2009 11:00 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Holy god

I’m just going to assume everything you wrote there was brilliant, because that’s a really substantial chunk o’ stuff.

Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway

by Sean O on Dec 30, 2009 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

+1

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Dec 31, 2009 12:38 AM EST up reply actions  

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