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Man the corners- what will the last pieces of the Red Sox infield look like in 2010?

It seems like since the offseason began, the opening in the Red Sox roster that has garnered the most attention has been who will be playing first and third in 2010.  About a million rumors and 2 months later, a lot of fans feel that question is largely unresolved.

Anywhere you look on the internet, TV, or radio, everyone has their own opinion on what the best idea for the Red Sox would be in the coming year.  These range from standing pat as we are now to trading anything they want and taking on $20 million a year for Miguel Cabrera.  Lets just examine a few of these options and the pluses and minuses of each possibility.

Star-divide

The fact is, despite the uncertainty at this position, the Red Sox lineup as it stands today has a glut of corner infielders.  Kevin Youkilis is probably the only one that makes every reasonable scenario's lineup as a corner infielder.  Victor Martinez has been playing more first base lately, and some people feel that it is important to be able to keep him in the lineup in this position when he is having an off day from catching.  Casey Kotchman has proven in the past that he can have an effective bat when played everyday, and everyone loves his defense.  Mike Lowell is always an effective hitter and up until 2009, was a gold-glove caliber defender at the hot corner and since he requires minor surgery, it looks like we'll have trouble moving him this offseason.  Though he hasn't played a ton of games there, in 2008, Jed Lowrie managed to post a UZR of 2.1 in just 45 games at third base, showing that he could be a great defender at the position.

With all this to choose from, why is everyone still clamoring for Theo to pay the big bucks or sell the farm for a new corner infielder?

There are divided opinion on what exactly is needed.  Many people remember feeling helpless during the ALDS or a few other series (notably a Tampa and NY road trip) where the Sox could not hit the ball or score any runs.  These people are scared that the loss of Jason Bay and the lack of adding any really significant offensive figures will ruin the club's chances for 2010.

Other people will point out that the Sox had the 3rd highest runs scored in baseball, including a more productive offensive year than in 2007 and feel that the real answer for the Red Sox in 2010 is to shore up the defense (which by pretty much all accounts was fairly atrocious last year).  I tend to fall more in the camp of people in favor of strong defense, though no doubt the true answer is some happy medium of the two- while we need stronger defense in 2010, we can't sacrifice too much offense in the tradeoff or we'll be right back where we started, watching other teams fight for the World Series.

It's a given that the weakest defensive part of the Sox order was the entire left side- Bay was not a good defender, due to a recovering hip, Lowell was atrocious, and the rotating shortstops throughout the year were frightening to watch until Alex Gonzalez came over from the Reds.  The outfield defense has been addressed, and should be strong for 2010.  The shortstop position is solidified (knock on wood!) with the addition of Marco Scutaro.

This would leave third base as the one question mark, although because Youk is so versatile, the Sox have the freedom to decide whether a first baseman or third baseman would be a better addition to the club.  So let's look at the options:

Adrian Gonzalez- Certainly the most rumored-about, and the player that has Red Sox Nation the most excited is San Diego first baseman Adrian Gonzalez.  In addition to being a Gold Glove-caliber first baseman, he brings a bat that is capable of 40 homers even though half his games were at the cavernous Petco Park, and an away OPS of 1.045 in 2010.  In addition to this, he is signed to a very team-friendly contract for the next two years.  The downside?  He will cost a TON in future talent, and with Jed Hoyer and Jason Mcleod being in San Diego, they are well familiar with the upsides and downsides of the Sox farm system, making a deal probably more difficult.  Acquiring Gonzalez could also throw a question mark in our incredibly solid rotation, as Buchholz would almost certainly have to be a part of any deal.

Adrian Beltre- Through the years in Seattle, Beltre has proved to be one of the best defensive third basemen baseball has ever seen, making ridiculous plays seemingly with ease.  Beltre would be a sure way to guarantee we had one of the best defenses through and through in 2010.  His bat has suffered of late, although his splits away from the very pitcher friendly Safeco field are much more promising.  At Fenway, he probably projects to have a bat similar to what Lowell has given the Sox in recent years, with probably a few more home runs.  There are two downsides to him.  First of all, he spent much of last year injured, and although they don't look like recurring injuries, it means that his performance is somewhat questionable.  The second is that his agent, the much-maligned Scott Boras is asking for much more money than he is worth- something like 3 years for $13-15 million.  It is likely that this will drop as no teams seem interested at that price, but will it drop enough that the Sox can afford it?  As I examined in a recent article, the Sox are currently VERY close to reaching the Luxury tax limit for 2010, and it is very much in their best interests to stay under it if at all possible.

Miguel Cabrera- is probably not available, but is worth a mention because some fans would love to see him here.  He is one of the best hitters in baseball and his defense at first has actually been improving over the years, despite what some people would have you think.  The downside is he would add $20 million/year to the payroll for 6 years, and because the Tigers have $60 million coming off their payroll in 2011, any team would need to pay up in prospects as well to acquire him.  This is to say nothing of his questionable behavior which may have well cost his team last year an AL Central title.

Miguel Tejada (aren't we getting a little repetitive with first names??)- this former MVP shortstop has so far resisted switching to third base, but with more teams questioning his range for shortstop, his thirst for winning may be able to bring his solid bat and solid glove to the hot corner in Boston.  Though his range has declined, he is a very solid fielder and would probably provide good defense at third.  He also brings a good bat for average with some pop to the lineup.  He's not one of the more exciting names on the market, but is a great all-around player with a thirst for winning who will probably come cheaper and for a shorter time commitment than options like Beltre (and as we've since, this could be the difference makers.

Mark Derosa- I hope not.  Derosa has been linked to the Sox, though his declining fielding, weakening bat, and outrageous asking price make him fairly unattractive.

Mike Lowell- We all are well aware of how he performed last year and the struggles he went through.  At the same time, his bat remained solid, if unexceptional.  We have been unable to trade him because of the minor surgery he requires and at that point, stuck with his $12 million for 2010 and with very little breathing room under the Tax limit, maybe it is the Sox best option to see how he recovers and give him one last shot in Spring Training to see if he is back to the Mike Lowell that won RSN over in 2007.  He has claimed that he has been able to do his full lower half conditioning this year, which he was unable to last year, and feels like that was a lot of the reason for his struggle.  The doctors have also said it takes a full year for the hip to heal from the surgery it had, which would place him as healed in time for this year.  Even if his hip is better, he is increasingly more and more injured- is he too much of a risk for the club to bring into the season?

Casey Kotchman- Casey Kotchman is an exception defensive first baseman and at his peak, has been an acceptable everyday offensive first baseman.  He has the advantage of already being in the teams' plans for not too much money and like I said, excellent defense.  Personally I don't think that having him in the lineup is worth putting Youk at third, where he is defensively weaker.

Jed Lowrie- though he's my pick for utility infielder, Lowrie is most likely to have to pick up slack at third base and, in 2008, proved he can do that quite effectively.  His bat (when healthy) is probably a little weak for third, though that may improve with more ABs.  There is always the eternal question of when he will possibly be healthy and ready to play full-time again.

Victor Martinez- OK so he's the everyday catcher for 2010, but he is an important piece of the puzzle so he needs mention.  His defense is fine for first, but nothing great.  His bat is also good at first, but again, nothing exceptional.

How do I think this will play out:

Personally, what I see as the most likely scenario is Lowell coming into ST as our third baseman with Youk as our first baseman, like last year.  If Lowell cannot perform well enough to help the team, I expect him to be dropped or traded for peanuts to someone who needs a field-less bat, with Kotchman stepping in at first and Youk moving over at third.  

I imagine the Red Sox seeing how this plays out, if the improved pitching and defense can carry the weakened offense, and if it looks like a struggle, making a strong play for Adrian Gonzalez at midseason, when the Padres are more likely to be willing to move him and he will still be able to help us down the stretch.

In this scenario, I also imagine Varitek's role will be catching against lefties, where his bat is not so bad.  On those days, Martinez will probably DH instead of Papi if Lowell is in the lineup, playing to everyone's strengths, or play first if Kotchman is in the lineup.

My personal favorite scenario is somehow finding the money to sign Beltre, but after taking a solid look at the Red Sox finances for 2010, I'll be the first to admit this is unlikely.

What do you think?  Is there anyone I missed?  Is there a scenario you think is more likely?

And congrats if you made it through my long-winded post.

Poll
What is the Red Sox answer to their infield corner dilemma?
Adrian Gonzalez
378 votes
Adrian Beltre
114 votes
Miguel Tejada
44 votes
Mike Lowell- Let's give him one more shot!
228 votes
Casey Kotchman- stick with what we got
60 votes
Miguel Cabrera- I failed economics and think this will work!
44 votes
Someone else
24 votes

892 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 49 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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yeah agreed

I’ve been playing out every scenario and I can’t see it happening without some ridiculous trade.

by wolf9309 on Dec 24, 2009 8:07 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm actually almost starting to expect a Beckett trade.

I feel like that’s what all these Bay and Holliday rumors suddenly springing up are leading to. Trade Beckett, get A-Gon with Ellsbury + Beckett Prospects + a few lesser ones of our own. Sign Holliday for left, put Cameron in center, A-Gon at first, Youk at 3rd.

It’s a bit of a pipe dream. But at the same time the rumors don’t point away from it.

USG

by Ben Buchanan on Dec 24, 2009 8:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Just for the record, it'd be very difficult even with Beckett coming off to get under the CBT.

However, we might not HAVE to spend a ton over next year if we do this. I don’t think the Sox care about paying 40% more on 5 million over if they get a lineup like that one would be.

USG

by Ben Buchanan on Dec 24, 2009 8:19 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah that would pretty much be an indestructible lineup

Holliday will be much more than Beckett is. With Holliday + Agon, they’d be way over the CBT. But like you said, it is worth it for that lineup.

I still don’t think a year of Beckett is going to net enough prospects to make a significant portion of an Agon trade- I just don’t see the partners out there apart from maybe the Angels (maybe the Dodgers, but I don’t think they can afford the cash). I also don’t think Ellsbury, who is arb eligible soon and is sure to split as soon as he hits FA, is a good answer to San Diego’s problems. But yes, it would be nice (though I’d hate to see Beckett go)

by wolf9309 on Dec 24, 2009 9:11 AM EST up reply actions  

But there could always be a third team involved.

"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw

by BTLove on Dec 25, 2009 1:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Based on the calculations I’ve seen, I question whether they are already at or slightly above the CBT now. For that reason, I think we may still see a lot or a lot of nothing the rest of the off season with not much in between. They could stick with Kotchman and Lowell and call it an off season. They could also realize that they are already over the threshold and decide to sign Bay/Holiday, trade Ellsbury for Gonzalez while locking up Beckett and VMart. I would love to see the latter but am not cutting the checks.

by mg050369 on Dec 24, 2009 9:03 AM EST up reply actions  

We are above

But one Hermida move away from under.

USG

by Ben Buchanan on Dec 24, 2009 9:07 AM EST up reply actions  

no prince fielder?

brewers pitching staffs are mess!
bowden+kelly+ellsbury might be enough for prince. i’m not sure if they want ellsbury because of c.gomez but we can swap ellsbury for some young pitcher, i guess…

by hmzd on Dec 24, 2009 8:49 AM EST reply actions  

Probably Bowden+Kellly+Ellsbury will not get him

the only possible help soon in their pitching staff would be Bowden, and he’s not a ton of help. I think he’s the same kind of situation as A-Gon, where there’s no chance that he’ll be traded until they’re 100% sure they won’t contend in 2010 (so probably around trade deadline, though their division isn’t the hardest, so they’ve got a shot).

I DID forget him, he’s probably worth including, that’s what the “someone else” vote is for

by wolf9309 on Dec 24, 2009 9:06 AM EST up reply actions  

but it would be much cheaper than trading for a.gon

frankly, i don’t think there’s a way to trade for a.gon without giving ellsbury+buchholz+@
and this is too much, imo. it’s because a.gon is not only young and solid player but also he’s tied two more years with ridiculously cheap contract. but prince fielder’s 2010 salary is 9mil and he could get 18mil+ ! (arb) in 2011 which means his trade value would be much less than a.gon’s. (not to mention that lousy defense at 1B)
also, i really don’t think brewers can compete with their pitching staffs.

by hmzd on Dec 24, 2009 9:42 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah he will be cheaper

actually $10.5 mill in 2010- it’s a 2 year/$18 mill, but more in 2010 than in 2009

The thing is, before all the season tickets are sold and the season is well under way, it’s a very bad business decision to trade your marquee player without trying to compete, when they can get close to as much for him at midseason. Losing Fielder at this point could cost them a lot in prospects.

I WOULD love to have Fielder as the future DH. Though if he got $18 million (or close to it), he’s not worth that, because he contributes nothing defensively. I’m not great at arb numbers though.

by wolf9309 on Dec 24, 2009 9:55 AM EST up reply actions  

right he's not a good defender

he does not contribute defensively. He would be a great DH but I wouldn’t pay what Boras would want for him for a DH.

by wolf9309 on Dec 26, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions  

He is a good defender

you’re not going by UZR are you?

by Salty on Dec 30, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Fielder?

UZR actually had him as positive for the first time ever this year. I’m going by UZR plus what I’ve heard plus the few Brewers games I’ve been able to watch, where he just looked a bit messy- not awful but not a plus defender.

by wolf9309 on Dec 31, 2009 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

I put no faith in UZR. The one thing that he wasn’t good at was digging throws out of the dirt although he was much better last year. If anything he has too much range and has to limit himself.

by Salty on Dec 31, 2009 7:02 PM EST up reply actions  

that's very much counter to everything I've seen/heard about him

but it’s possible you’ve seen more of him so I’m not arguing with you, my statement was just based on what I’ve seen and heard, which always could be wrong.

by wolf9309 on Dec 31, 2009 8:00 PM EST up reply actions  

On the other hand, you most likely only have Fielder for those 2 years and then he's gone

He’s a Boras client, and he’s amazingly popular. I can easily see some team overpaying for him in FA, and if you DO manage to get him at market price, how long before you’re paying $20MM a year for a DH?

DFA Beckett

by South Coast Ghost on Dec 24, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

You forgot an option.

☻Create a time machine, negate Lackey signing and free up money to be spent wisely.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

I have a five-tool player in my pants.

by Bloggy on Dec 24, 2009 10:07 AM EST reply actions  

I’m not convinced that inking the best FA pitcher on the market is spending unwisely.

by mg050369 on Dec 24, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Just because he's the best on the market...

…doesn’t mean he’s a good option.

You can say, "Who’s the “best” on the market? OK…SIGN HIM!" Or, you can say, “What does this team need now and in the future and how can I do that the most efficiently?”

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

I have a five-tool player in my pants.

by Bloggy on Dec 24, 2009 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

If the best FA pitcher on the market were Kyle Lohse

Would you pay him $12 million?

“The best” is a pointless distinction. He’s not worth his contract.

USG

by Ben Buchanan on Dec 24, 2009 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed, however...

Referencing him as the best available doesn’t mean it’s a great signing. However, Lackey gives them, IMHO, the best rotation in baseball. It also gives them the flexibility of including Buchholz in a package to get Gonzalez. You could make an argument for using on Bay but do you want to committ to someone that may not age well and could be demanding a 5th year? You could also make an argument for Holliday but he reportedly already spurned a 5/$82.5M deal. I’m not saying that Lackey is the greatest Sox free agent signing ever, however, I think he was a good (not great) signing for that contract.

by mg050369 on Dec 24, 2009 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

agreed -

as I said elsewhere, buying Lackey was not just about value, it was also strategic.

In addition to whatever Lackey’s intrinsic value is, they also purchased two things:

a) competitive costs – they took the biggest FA off the market forcing other teams to give up prospects to secure a similar pitcher.
b) opportunity – they purchased the ability to possibly deal Buchholz.

The latter point may be ‘worth the contract’. If Buch goes in an A-Gon deal, then I’d say it probably was (depending on the other terms of that deal).

by mmmmm on Dec 24, 2009 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

It arguably gives them the best rotation in baseball THIS year.

What about year 3?

And how much better are they this year with Lackey but minus Buchholz (assuming he’s now trade bait) than they would be with Buchholz minus Lackey? Enough to justify the difference in dollars spent, assuming that money can be used for offensive/defensive upgrades? Or placed in the bank for big pieces next year?

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

I have a five-tool player in my pants.

by Bloggy on Dec 24, 2009 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

"how much better are they this year with Lackey but minus Buchholz"

depends on what they got for Buchholz.

If they get A-Gon by virtue of having Buchholz to trade, then I’d have to think that Lackey + A-Gon on the ML roster is worth more than Buchholz on the roster. Yes, Lackey has less future value than Buch – but he’s not worthless and A-Gon could be a long-term stud.

Its all tricky – a lot depends on how this plays out before we can really evaluate it completely.

by mmmmm on Dec 24, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Absolutely it does

But I tend to like simplicity. We have a strong pitcher with potential to be a very strong pitcher in Clay. I like picking up the available strong pieces to plug the holes we know we have with minimal wheelin’ dealin’ with hopes it works out.

A lot more ifs and coulds with the wheelin’ dealin’.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

I have a five-tool player in my pants.

by Bloggy on Dec 24, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Heh - hence Theo's job

is to try to use leverage with those pieces to get even more out of ’em than their apparent face value.

If it were all done as simple as you say, his job would be too easy.

Unfortunately, he’s got to compete with the Yankees, so every possible bit of leverage is important.

by mmmmm on Dec 24, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, obviously it's not ALWAYS easy.

I guess my concern is that sometimes if someone is given a label like “boy genius” in tough fan market, one tries to be a little smarter than he needs to be.

Sometimes, the simple method works just as well, if not better. I think there was a greater potential for upside with the simple scenario this off season.

Of course, as you say above:


Its all tricky – a lot depends on how this plays out before we can really evaluate it completely.

It’s very tricky, and it may be 4 years until we know if this was smart or not.

Unfortunately for you all, I will continue to hate these moves for at LEAST until the end of spring training and into the season. ;)

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

I have a five-tool player in my pants.

by Bloggy on Dec 24, 2009 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Lowell and Ells

If we were to trade Ells and Buch+ for Agon, I feel it is too much. Ells hits .300 and should be getting better and his defense is good despite the #‘s(2 years ago he was +16 and the last year a -16) but he is good. I think he is scared of the wall when he goes back though. Lowell will be better(not great, but better) and he hits 25HR’s. couple that with increased production from short and a full year of Vmart and Cams power, maybe we don’t need to give up Buch and ells+ to get Agons 40HR. It feels sensational but I feel you lose too much just to make a splash. PLUS, He may not do so well in the AL and in Boston. Also, Agon will not be walked as much here and OBP will drop. If you Sign Bay and then move Ells and Kelly for Agon – I like it. But I think Buch is going to be solid and we are going to need him- I feel that Dice or Wake is one pitcher so we need Buch.

the difference between a yankee stadium hot dog and a Fenway frank is that they dont sell yankee dogs in October anymore.

by fishfarmr on Dec 24, 2009 11:41 AM EST reply actions  

Two things

I agree that Ells is a decent hitter. He could be a very valuable player if his defense improves. However, you can’t be certain that it will improve enough to make him an average fielder. Ells will be 27-years old next year, and the Sox’ system is deep with OF. If there’s one player who could be replaced, it’s Ells. Right now, the Sox have Cameron to play CF. Two years from now they’ll probably have a couple of CF. I’m more worried about the team moving Buchholz than I am about a possible Ellsbury trade.

While I have always liked Mike Lowell, I’m not sure he is a viable option at 3B. His lack of mobility hurt the team last year. Chances are, the Sox will still try to move him this spring. As for his 25 HR power, his best season in Boston was 21. $12 million is an awful lot of money to waste on a bench player. Look at it this way, if the Sox thought Lowell was capable of giving them even average defense, would they have tried so hard to dump him?

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Dec 24, 2009 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

+1 on all points

And if Lowell really had more value than $3 M – wouldn’t somebody have taken him?

by mmmmm on Dec 24, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

the CBT threshold is the main sticking point, and Ells is the other

and its not just about willingness to pay the tax on this year’s excess salary. Because, as Wolfie explained so well in the other thread, staying under it this year has longer term ramifications.

http://www.overthemonster.com/2009/12/22/1212797/lets-talk-about-luxury-tax

Specifically, if we stay under the CBT this year, then the tax for exceeding the threshold next year would drop back to the base (22.5%) rate. If they go over this year, then it jumps to 30% (and then 40% in 2011).

So if they go over the $170 M by even a smidgen this year, then that could cost them a lot of money next year.

Next year’s FA class has some big names – including some of interest to the Sox. Yes, the Sox will free up some salary as guys like Papi come off the books. But I wouldn’t be surprised if they were expecting to exceed the cap next year by 10-20 M or more. The difference in tax rate adds millions of expense on top of that that I’m sure they’d rather keep in house.

So its is not worth going over the CBT this year by just a tiny amount. The actual cost of that tiny amount is huge. If they are going to go over at all, then it actually makes more sense to go over by a lot – assuming you get decent value. The reason is that you are amortizing the marginal cost of next year’s tax rate caused by spending now across a bigger sum spent now. And assuming the expenditure is for a good value deal that possibly reduces your future need to go over the CBT, you may be able to pick up the savings a few years down the road.

If they HAVE gone over, and can’t figure out how to get back under (because they can’t move part of Lowell’s salary or all of Hermida’s or Tek) then that would explain McAdam’s report – that they are considering boosting their salary. I personally don’t believe that Bay would be a good expenditure of that money. I would still prefer getting Beltre.

However, getting Bay or (preferably) Holliday would make sense IF they also made the move to get A-Gon.

That would result in a killer positional lineup. Not as good defensively on the left edge (figuring Youk is weaker defensively at 3B than Beltre and Bay/Holliday are weaker than Ells in LF). But Youk would not be ‘bad’ at 3B by any stretch and A-Gon would be strong defensively at 1B and we’d still have Cameron in CF. So overall the defense would still be a significant upgrade over 2009 and the offense would be massively upgraded because you would be replacing:

Lowell → A-Gon
Bay → Bay/Holliday
Ells → Cameron

on top of already replacing:

Tek → VMart
Green, et al → Scutaro

So, aside from the CBT, to me the remaining sticking point is Ells – I don’t think the Padres will value him that much in an A-Gon deal. If they want an already-in-the-majors piece in the package, then I would think they would prefer Buchholz over Ells. Based on what we can guess, the Padres probably really would value younger prospects with more years of control so either actually becomes more of a marquee throw-in (to salve the fans). The real value of any deal to them would be in a package of guys like Kelley and/or Westmoreland. Between Buch and Ells, I would think Buch has more value because the Padres already have a good young CF.

So – to me, the A-Gon deal is more likely to work for the Padres if it includes Buch. But the rumoured ‘re’ pursuit of Bay/Holliday only works if we move Ells. Because Cameron is definitely going to be starting and makes more sense at CF anyway.

So would that mean yet another deal (trade Ells to someone else?) is in the works?

Or am I wrong – would the Padres take Ells instead of Buch? That would be a HUGE win for us because we would keep all of our current rotation in addition to buffing the offense and defense. That seems too good of a possible outcome.

Or do we end up sending both Ells AND Buchholz in the deal – and keep either Kelley or Westmoreland? Overall the rotation is still strong, the positional lineup is tremendously boosted, and we keep one of those prospects. I could live with that.

by mmmmm on Dec 24, 2009 11:57 AM EST reply actions  

Hey, Padres fan here

I personally don’t see Hoyer taking Ells in a trade for Gonzo. As a player Ells would be perfect for SD and the vision they have for their future. He’s fast, athletic, can swipe 70 bags, hits for average, and would fill the glaring hole in CF that the Padres currently have.

The issue here is control. The Padres are broke, have a payroll that’s stretching to be just $40 million, and are in serious rebuilding mode. Ells is one year away from arbitration and he just so happens to be a Scott Boras client.

But make no doubt about it, Hoyer wants Buchholz, Westmoreland AND Kelley (which Theo has publicly stated ‘in your dreams’) If not that then expect a demand of Buchholz, Westmoreland OR Kelly + 1-2 prospects.

Gonzo will be on the team for Opening Day for the Pads. I expect him to be gone by the trade deadline, unless the Pads are in contention. (So, he’ll be gone by the trade deadline.)

by polyrhythm07 on Dec 24, 2009 4:17 PM EST up reply actions  

As much as I would love to have Gonzo in Fenway, if the asking price is Buch, Westmoreland AND Kelly, I would have to pass as well. The problem with SD’s approach is Gonzo’s value will likely never be higher and they are unlikely to ever be competitive during his remaining SD tenure. They run the risk of getting much less down the road if they wait too long.

by mg050369 on Dec 24, 2009 6:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Beltre is the answer as long as Boras can be brought down a couple clicks...

But Tejada is an interesting option in my opinion, as long as it is only a 2 or 3 year deal max.

by upCHUCK on Dec 24, 2009 1:05 PM EST reply actions  

id rather just hang on to Lowell than get Tejada honestly

by cnubsbl16 on Dec 25, 2009 12:29 AM EST up reply actions  

i agree, depending on him being physically able to play the position

I’d certainly rather give him a shot in ST before signing Tejada, so Tejada’s probably out unless he waits a verrrry long time to sign.

by wolf9309 on Dec 25, 2009 11:15 AM EST up reply actions  

As long as every team stays way away from Beltre so the price goes down...

…He’s our answer. Of course, not going to happen. Ideally though, he would be.

I like Lowrie or Kotchman at 3rd or 1st. I would rather have Lowrie in.

by A Guy on Dec 24, 2009 2:26 PM EST reply actions  

Keep Ellsbury and Bucholz

Trading Ells and Buch would be a tremendous error on the part of the Red Sox, and would have the padres in the Playoffs in less than two years. This is no slap at Agon, but a simple evaluation of our players’ skills. Ells has the potential to be a devastating offensive weapon, his discipline at the plate is improving, if he stops trying to be a power hitter his average will improve and with it his run production and his ability to disrupt other defenses with just his threat on the bases will rise in other words he makes other batters better just by being on base. In left field, balls that would have been singles last will die in Ells’ glove. If he stops just one single a game, over the course of a year, you are looking at 25 + runs over the course of the year. The pitchers yield less dingers as they don’t feel the threat of walks being sure runs anymore.

Buchholz was a much improved talent this fall and does have the ability to be a true Ace, he would definitely be the Padres Ace. Buch will be available to the sox for 5 years, Gonzalez could be gone after 2, and with the tall wall might actually fall short in HR though his singles total may go up.

In my opinion, Ells and Bucholz are the Red Sox future, which may show up this year, and should not be messed with. Besides, Lowell is going to be much improved over last year, even with the thumb, better range, better throw, better offense and better speed. He has almost healed from surgery, and his skills will have healed as well.

by NJ Native on Dec 24, 2009 3:42 PM EST reply actions  

Finally someone agree's on this -_-"

If we get rid of Ellsbury, our baserunning ability would suffer greatly. Less points on the board without him and the Sox have one of the slowest baserunning teams in the league. Buchholz, 6 out of his last 10 games gave up 1 or no runs excluding his playoff debut in which he gave up 2 runs. That’s a future ace to me. I’d love to have Adrian Gonzalez on the team but for those guys? Absolutely not. I believe the Padres wanted Casey Kelly and Westmoreland and I know Theo stated that those two are off limits.

by n0va on Dec 24, 2009 8:53 PM EST up reply actions  

whooo caaaares

about baserunning ability? Good god, it’s almost 2010.

Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway

by Sean O on Dec 26, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

You know what NJ Native?

I like your overall look of things. There’s a rosy lining to it. I’ve heard all kinds of confusing possibilities but when all is said and done, I find myself agreeing with you almost entirely! (Not an easy thing to do)

The things that’s gonna be a bit of a sticking point is:
1) Just how much Clay is going to ask for going into his arb year?
  
2) Ells future with the club? We’re due to have a log jam of major league ready pieces soon. When would we get an optimal price for him if it’s not after last season?

3) A line up that quite possibly might have Kotchman as our everyday 1B? Would this be acceptable to Red Sox Nation? I love him. He’s got an above average glove just needs to be more patient at the plate and stop jumping into pitches, essentially jamming himself.

4) What do we do long term in regards to the hole we’re going to have at 3B provided we don’t try and move Mikey? I don’t think Beltre is NOT going to play somewhere this year. This might be our shot at getting him. (Yeah I know I know the CBT issue)

I guess at some point we’re going to have to say enough is enough and this is the team we’re putting out there on the field. Either way I’ll be happy because I think Theo and the FO made the moves they believed would make the Sox better. There’s nothing I can say to the contrary at this point. Anything else they add, quality wise, would simply be icing on the cake.

Oh and for the record, I thought the Lakey signing was a smart move. I’m not as locked up on the numbers as most other guys are here. I like what he brings to the mound and the fact that he’s 17-5 against the rest of AL East doesn’t hurt (subtracting the Yankees and Us of course) He’s been sensational against the M’s and the Rangers and by signing him, the Red Sox Brass crippled that Angels rotation.

by Red Sox Raider on Dec 24, 2009 6:18 PM EST reply actions  

anything to contribute?

or just want to add your blowharding into the mix?

by wolf9309 on Dec 26, 2009 10:07 PM EST up reply actions  

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