Yankees One-Up Red Sox, Trade for Javier Vazquez
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 22, 2009 10:24 AM EST
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PrintThe entirety of the internet is reporting that the Yankees are about to acquire Braves starter Javier Vazquez and Boone Logan for Melky Cabrera, Mike Dunn, and Arodys Vizcaino. Joel Sherman is the one with those lastest names.
When the Red Sox signed John Lackey, it seemed as if they may have stolen one from under the Yankee's noses. New York was in need of a starter, with serious questions in the bottom of their rotation, and John Lackey appeared to be the best talent the Yankees could possibly acquire, with Roy Halladay an unlikely option.
Not to be outdone, though, the Yankees have gone ahead and acquired one of last year's best pitchers. Vazquez ranked 4th in strikeouts, 9th in ERA, and 3rd in FIP in 2009. The Red Sox faced Vazquez once last year, and only managed 1 run in 7.2 innings.
Vazquez has one year remaining on his contract at $11 million, but let's none of us make any mistakes about the Yankees ability to resign a player if they want to.
For the Yankees side of the trade, we all know about Melky Cabrera. He is an entirely average Center Fielder, and unlikely ever to be much more. Mike Dunn is a swingman type who does not rank too high in any prospect valuation, though he had 20 nice innings in the IL last year. Arodys Vizcaino is a legitimate young pitching prospect, but still, the value of this deal seems fairly low. I ask you, Red Sox fans, what would you have given up for a year of Javier Vazquez? What if it meant freeing up money by not signing John Lackey? Assuming this deal is not derailed over the next few hours, these are the questions we're going to have to ask ourselves.
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And now, with a pit in the bottom of my stomach, I leave for my last final.
Ugh. What bad news to wake up to.
USG
Haha
I’ve been done since the 19th, only person I know to finish so early.
by Gnick on Dec 22, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
I was done on the 14th!
Take that! I was due for early finals this year. Penn State had screwed me over for the last three years, one on monday, two on tuesday and then one on friday was usually how it worked out. Not this semester!
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
19th? Man, I didn't have my first till the 19th!
3 days? Either you took only a few classes, or you got absolutely swamped.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 22, 2009 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
My midwestern college
Got out in the middle of December, but we were back in school by Jan. 4th at the latest, and went until after June 10th. My graduation was during the Sox/Pirates series in ’05, 6.17 and 6.18.
shudder.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
Ugh
that is bad. Why would the Braves totally overpay for stupid thinigs like Wagner and other BP parts and make this trade for the guy that was their ace last year. Bad bad bad…
I am just as confused
It looks like they are trying to compete and then they decide to trade their ace for Cabrera??
Unbelievable
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 22, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
because the braves have 5 other great starters, and now 11 million dollars to get a bat (which was the main offseason need)…not to mention the yanks #2 prospect
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
But
They spent $10 mill on Saito and Wagner (possibly I think $15 mill total with incentives). I’m not saying signing them was a bad move, but if they needed to dump salary this just seems odd. How is a full your of Vazquez not worth more than two 40 year old relievers?
vazquez had a career year, its unlikely he repeats…and even if he does its unlikely that the braves would be able to resign him…going into the offseason the two main needs were bullpen and a big bat..the bullpen situation is handled..
with hudson coming back, the braves still have 3 or 4 pitchers that could be dubbed “aces”—hudson, jurjjens, hanson, and lowe (who i expect alot better year out of) and then kawakami who also had a sub 4 ERA this year in his first season in the majors…
the braves simply had a surplus of starting pitching and needed to fill other needs….now if they sign a big bat (for example jason bay), they essentially traded vazquez for bay (or whoever they sign)…so its really not so bad on their part
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
On any team
Vazquez is worth more than Bay and is cheaper too, so this makes little sense.
Wow
Good move for the Yanks… I don’t know what the Braves are doing this year. Though wasn’t last year a big outlier for Vazquez? Looking at his career stats it looks like he’s a good pitcher, but not as good as the year previous. I don’t really know anything about him though, was he regarded as having a lot of potential and is just now putting it all together?
bandwagon sux fan?
i still cringe when i hear vazquez’s name: the year that shall not be named.. kevin brown-nose.. johnny “jesus” damon.. grand slam.. curses.. none of this is ringing a bell for you is it? solid move for the yanks they can call it an offseason now no need to go chasing another outfielder
Yes, we're all bandwagoners because we don't base our perceptions of a 5 year old season.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 23, 2009 3:22 AM EST up reply actions
+1
Slightly OT, but I think the internet kinda renders the “bandwagon” label irrelevant – I mean anyone with the slightest research skills and the slightest ability to lie can sound moderately steeped in the lore of whatever team. See, e.g., baseballreference.com; wikipedia
And aren’t most Yankees fans we see here really just bandwagoneers from the ‘90s. I mean, let’s be honest. I know you young whippersnappers with your rap music and your make-out parties only vaguely remember the nineties in halcyon shades of gauzy preadolescence, but I was in college then, and I’m sure that gizmosandy has underwear that old. Suppose I, in a fit of weak-willed and craven desire to leech off the adulation of those Yankees teams, decided to become an MFYer. Would I now be legit? Hardly. Let’s all grow up.
Of course, the prior paragraphs have no application to the Devil Rays and their purported fans
Rock me, sexy Jesus...
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 23, 2009 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
Awful deal for Braves
I don’t know what the Braves are thinking here. I’m also not sold the Yankees just acquired a stud SP here though, as Vazquez has been largely average in the AL (ERA+’s of 92, 98, 126, 98) and I don’t think his extremely homer prone tendencies will go great in the new Yankee Stadium.
Still, he’s incredibly durable and 200 innings of league average or slightly above is very valuable. Certainly more valuable than Melky Cabrera is. Vizcaino seems like the key to this deal, but who knows how a guy that far away will pan out.
This makes no sense
for the Braves.
Unless Vasquez was like, a clubhouse cancer or something. I just don’t understand it.
Does Cashman have embarassing photos of someone in the Braves FO?
This is a steal and really sucks sucks sucks.
And now in a need for another OF....
The Yanks pick up Holliday.
I really hope that this does not happen.
who is afraid of Javier Vasquez?
he had a career year, will get overpaid, and melt in the media inferno
the type of Yankee move that I love to watch!
here’s to you, Carl Pavano
again
Don't fool yourself
Javy Vazquez on the White Sox had 3 straight years of 3.70 or so FIPs. He is a very good pitcher, even in the AL.
At what point...
Does underperforming your peripherals stop being bad luck? Vazquez is 33 years old with 2490 IP and his career ERA is 4.19 compared to his 3.83 FIP. This isn’t a small sample size we are dealing with here. I think it’s pretty fair to look at his ERA without it being too misleading, despite his peripherals suggesting he’s better.
At what point.....
did ERA become a stat for judging a pitcher’s quality? It is HIGHLY dependent on defense and the ballpark.
Exactly
Here’s a good post on Fangraphs about ERA.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 22, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
True
But Vazquez gives up a lot of fly balls. Yankee Stadium is going to hurt him. And the Yankees aren’t exactly a stellar defensive team — UZR/150 of -4.9 last year. So I’d bet that he’s going to have a higher ERA than FIP in 2010.
He definitely makes them better, but I don’t think it’s by as much as some people here seem to think — he’s not going to repeat his career year. Of course, I’m not sure the Lackey signing makes us tremendously better either, unless Theo manages to solve our corner infielder problem. Call it a wash so far or at least close to it.
Vazquez
is a known underperformer of his peripherals, and I don’t think it is just bad luck. It has been discussed that his strand rates are somewhat substandard and does not like to pitch from the stretch. All of that you are correct about. Still he is a quality starter.
As I said...
…he does improve their rotation. But the difference isn’t so significant.
Unless
you think adding 3 or so wins alone over Mitre/Gaudin, etc. is so significant. It could be very significant since the AL East likely will be very tight. An injury (say to one of the Yankees top 3) which could otherwise be a disaster would now not be. Plus, I do think we are overstating how “bad” we expect Vazquez to be in the AL East. He was really good in the first half of 04. Why should we expect, given his otherwise solid track record that he will fall apart again? At the very least 105 innings in 04 shows he can really compete in this division and could be as good as any pitcher on the Yankees save CC. Also, if we are so sure that the AL East is the place pitchers go to die, why do we have confidence in Lackey, who has not pitched there, and is not the K pticher Vazquez is, and has his own problems with HRs? I would not be surprised if Vazquez outperforms Lackey…and he will cost the Yankees a lot less.
You're forgetting a few things
1) You don’t have to win the division to make the playoffs.
2) Vazquez’s numbers are going to suffer in MFY Stadium and with the MFY defense behind him. He’s going to be better than Mitre/Gaudin, but not that much better.
3) Matt Clement was really good in the first half of 2005. Tim Wakefield was really good in the first half of 2009. David Ortiz sucked in the first half of 2009. Pedro was really good for about seven innings in Game 7. But you have to play the whole game and the whole season.
4) Lackey has pitched decently or better over the course of his career against every team in the AL East, he isn’t a pitcher with a 40% career fly ball rate with Coors Field East working against him, and he has a lower HR/FB rate than Vazquez.
So I repeat: Vazquez improves their rotation, but not by so much that the near-panic I’m seeing in this thread is anywhere near justified.
I'm not forgetting anything.
The statement that Vazquez is only a mild improvement over Mitre is laughable. John Lackey has a career FB% of 36%, and given that they have identical career FIPs, Vazquez hasobviously traded his slightly higher HR/9 for better K/BB. Its a wash. Lackey also has pitched 84 innings against the Sox (5.25 ERA) and 102 inning against the Yankees (4.66 ERA), that is “decently”? I agree that there is nothing to panic about. I think the Sox have a good team and will compete with anyone. But Vazquez is much closer to Lackey than Mitre, and the wild card does not have to come from the East. Our rivals adding strength at low cost is never a good thing.
Then you're ignoring a few things
1) Vazquez had a career year that he is unlikely to repeat, and he did so a) for a team with a better defense than the MFY, b) in a stadium much friendlier to his style of pitching than MFY Stadium, c) in a league where pitchers hit, d) in an environment in which he doesn’t have a history of sucking quite the way he does in New York.
2) Vazquez’s WAR last year was 6.6. Gaudin’s and Mitre’s combined was 1.7. But Gaudin and Mitre are both likely to be better this year than they were last year; Vazquez is likely to be worse because last year was an extreme outlier. In fact, Vazquez is highly unlikely to have a WAR greater than 5.0, and probably closer to 4.0. So you’re really looking at a difference of 2-3 games. If the only way the Sox make the playoffs is by winning the division, that may be a problem. But again, there’s a wild card. And while it doesn’t have to come from the East, the only teams likely to have a shot at the wild card outside the East are Cleveland, Minnesota, Anaheim, and Seattle. Two of those will win their divisions, and the Sox are clearly superior to three and about even Anaheim, though they’ve lost quite a bit in the offseason and may not be able to compete if they have to beat out the Sox.
3) A 4.66 ERA against the MFY is absolutely decent. It may have escaped your notice, but that’s a pretty good team that scores a lot of runs. And Vazquez’s 2004 against the Sox? He was 1-2 with a 5.56 ERA. He pitched very well in less than 10 innings against the Sox in 2006, but he was 1-1 with a 6.57 ERA against us in 2007 and pitched poorly in his only start against us in 2008. Lackey is far superior if he’s healthy, and he hasn’t been for two years. If he’s healthy this year, he’s a much bigger improvement for the Sox relative to what they had in 2009 than Vazquez is relative to what the MFY had.
All I have to say is three things
1)After all of those words you are agreeing with me-I said he is worth 3 more wins over the random crap that is Gaudin/Mitre.
2)You can argue all you want about various scenarios you want about next year. You can’t argue that 3 wins for a net 8 million dollars from our toughest competitor is a good thing.
3)You also can’t argue that Lackey is vastly superior. They have the same career FIP. And if you want to argue that this is somehow because Vazquez has pitched in the NL, not that he put up 3 straight years of 3.8 FIP baseball for the White Sox. And then before you start arguing that somehow the central sucks, note that Lackey pitched in the run weaker West and was on the only consistently good team. And before you start arguing about FB and HR tendencies note the park factor data below and the fact that Lackey is far from a groundball pitcher.
You are vastly overrating Lackey. A guy with is K/BB numbers and lack of GB tendencies cannot control a game well enough to be close to elite. He is not worse than Vazquez, but if he is better is is not by much. I think you will be disappointed.
I'm not overrating anyone. You are.
You’re assuming Vazquez will perform more like his numbers from last year than his career numbers or the numbers from his previous stint in New York, either of which is far more likely. And this panic over three games at most is pathetic — all we need to worry about is getting to the playoffs, and this team ought to do that. Only a fool would argue that it’s anything but a crapshoot at that point regardless of what happens in the regular season.
But if you want to take up NG’s Chicken Little routine, go right ahead.
you are crazy.
can you point to one “panic” statement in any part of any post I made? I didn’t think so. All I said is adding 3 cheap wins to the Yankees does not make me happy. I have said that over and over again. It also bothers me because we just spent 82 million dollars on a guy who is shades better than the guy the Yankees added for 8.
I still think there is a good chance that we win the division next year. The point is that for every thing that makes our competetors stronger the road is harder, that is just common sense. Perhaps neither we nor the Yankees will make the playoffs next year, you never know. That is the point. You cannot expect that “this team ought” to do that. The Rays are a good team. The Yankees are a very good team. As much as the playoffs are a crapshoot, to some extent the regular season is too. When a team adds depth and gets stronger, it buffers against the ravages of random injury. No panic. Just reality.
I was more responding to your incorrect statements. Maybe you interpreted this as undo care about Vazquez. These include:
1)a comparison of his half year with Clement’s. A real look at the #s shows that Vazquez was good, Clement was lucky. If you want I will crunch the FIPs for you.
2)Statements to the effect that Vazquez has had one good year. Actually his last 2 years in Chicago were very good. In one of them he was better even in terms of ERA, than Lackey has been since 07. In the other he has a 330 BABIP against, but pitched very well. Why somehow do you put stock in stupid things like a half year in 2004 or the fact that he is scarred over this?
3)Incorrect statements about FB/HR tendancies that have been refuted vis-a-vis the comparison with Lackey.
4)Well, I didn’t even bother with your selectively strange statements about Vazquez’ performances against the Sox (somehow forgetting to add in the string of small sample data that he 3 hit us over 72/3 innings last year).
one other thing:
better HR/FB rate than Vazquez-this is obviously because he has pitched his whole career in a park that suppressed HRs more than the parks Vazquez has pitched in.
research please
here are your park factors: http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor
Now note that the only park in MLB more HR-friendly than Anaheim is new YS and take back that statement.
You see
this is what I hate. When someone says something completely wrong and does so in a very arrogant way. It is fine to have a discussion and to disagree, but please don’t make yourself look completely stupid by taking a lecturing tone when you are flat wrong. If you read the above, we are talking about career HR/FB and thus career park factors. Here are your park factor HR numbers for LAA over Lackey’s career:
2002: 0.612
2003:0.789
2004:1.062
2005:0.906
2006:0.801
2007:0.890
2008:0.933
That’s about as HR deflating as it gets in the AL.
And just for fun
the HR park factors for the parks Vazquez pitched in over the same span:
2002: 0.994
2003: 1.539
2004: 0.776
2005: 1.053
2006: 1.307
2007: 1.220
2008: 1.353
Montreal, Arizona and Chicago were/are extreme inflation HR parks.
I agree with what you say
My concern is that if its a wash, then we are behind, based on how we finished last year.
I do think that Theo needs to continue with the positional reformation that he obviously started this off-season – get us an upgrade at corner infield.
Yes and no
We’re behind, but not by much. And we’ll benefit from a full year of Tek not playing. And I doubt Theo is done.
"And we’ll benefit from a full year of Tek not playing"
this.
“And we’ll benefit from a full year of Green/Gonzolez/Lowrie(injured) not playing.”
And this.
Thank you for reminding me of some reassuring thoughts. A third thought is: " Papi may not hit like he did in the last 2/3 of the season, but he probably won’t ever hit as bad as he hit in the first 1/3 of the season…"
So okay, I’ll try to be a little more optimistic. :-)
Totally agree.
Come on. This is Javier Vasquez a guy who could not handle playing in NY or the AL East. He will get hammered. The Carl Pavano reference is very close.
Guy couldnt handle NY before, but now he is going to come in and just own people? In that ballpark?
We get an Ace from a team that came into the AL East and beat the Rays, Yankees and Red Sox, the Yankees get a guy who had some success in the AL Central and the NL East.
Color me not impressed at all.
If the Braves gave up Tommy Hanson instead of Javier Vasquez in this trade...
Then I would be worried. I think the MFY were wrong in giving up Cabrera, even though his UZR/150 for 2009 is worse than Ells. This makes me think they are going for Holliday, why in the world should they settle for Damon when they can bid for Holliday?
You're mistaken
Melk = -2.1
Ells= – 18.3
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Dec 22, 2009 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
We REALLY need to complete the position player moves now.
This ameliorates any rotational advantage we may have gained with Lackey. We need to get Beltre, IMHO, to finish bringing our positional player defense/offense up to where we need it.
If we stand pat with Lowell/Kotchman mixed into the ‘solution’ I think we are going to be crying all summer.
I don't think we've lost our roation advantage
Lester > Sabathia or at worst as wash
Beckett > Burnett
Lackey > or = Vasquez (don’t know much about Vasquez to make firm decision)
Dice-K = Pettitte
Buchholz > Hughes
Wake < Joba
I don't think we've lost it, either
but this eats into the advantage. Vasquez can eat up 200 innings as a quality 3-4 guy, which is good for any pitching staff. Helps the bullpen out tremendously.
The Yankees are still going to score a lot of runs with their bats.
We still need to shore up the defense/offense behind our pitching. Theo’s strategy that he’s been following this off season still is sound – we need one more upgrade at corner infielder to complete it. The Texas turnaround on Lowell hurts the plan, but doesn’t derail it.
First thing
Vazquez would be ahead of Burnett definetly. Burnett WAR the past 3 years = 11.2, Vazquez WAR the past 3 years = 16.5.
Vazquez is pretty nasty. The numbers are very similar to Beckett but I would give Beckett the advantage for pitching in the AL.
This is a perfect example of stats not equalling actual talent.
The Stats are amazing….who cares, the guy was very unimpressive his last tour through the AL East. But to his stats are great beating up on the Tigers, Royals, and Indians or the Marlins, Mets and Nationals.
This is so much stat geek hype for an overrated arm.
Does Javier Vasquez scare anyone in the playoffs? Seriously?
Does anyone think Girardi will pitch Vasquez instead of Burnett or Pettitte?
Is that weighted?
SB Nation's Boston Red Sox community:
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Follow Randy on Twitter: @RCBooth
by Randy Booth on Dec 22, 2009 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
Here's their weighted WARs:
AJ: 3.8
Javier: 5.6
Almost two wins better the last two seasons was JV. However, his best season ever — last season with the Braves — produced a 6.6 WAR in the National League. But his 5.1 and 4.8 with the White Sox the two seasons previous is nothing to shake your head at either…
So yes, JV is the better pitcher, but with regression, who knows?
SB Nation's Boston Red Sox community:
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Follow Randy on Twitter: @RCBooth
by Randy Booth on Dec 22, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure that Vazquez is the better pitcher
AJ Burnett has been pitching in the AL East, while Vazquez has been in the NL East lately. I don’t believe the competition levels are equal.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
Even disregarding the NL weighting
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
Weighted WAR's...
Boston:
Lester (over just past 2 years): 5.7 WAR
Beckett: 5.5 WAR
Lackey: 3.7 WAR
Dice-K: 2.3 WAR
Wakefield: 2.1 WAR
Buchholz (over past 2 years): 1.0 WAR
Yankees:
Sabathia: 6.8 WAR
Vazquez: 5.6 WAR
Pettitte: 4.0 WAR
Burnett: 3.8 WAR
Chamberlain: 2.0 WAR
Hughes: 1.4 WAR
I would say the Yankees have the edge in the top 4. I would expect both Hughes and Buchholz to put up better WAR’s with a full season of pitching.
If Vazquez has a 5.6 WAR in 2010
Well, then I guess Buchholz will have a 7, ’cuz AL East hitting will probably have collapsed.
He’s good, but he had a career year. I think he’ll be a slightly overpaid LAIMer.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
Vazquez had three good years with Chicago
They play in the AL—in a very good hitter’s park. Vazquez had two years of 4.8 WAR and one year of 5.1 WAR. Also, it’s important to remember he won’t be pitching against the MFY, the best hitting team in the AL East. Vazquez is a very good pitcher. This trade was a steal for NY.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 22, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
A Steal?
Let’s not go crazy. Yeah, they didn’t give up anything but prospect drek and $11.5m, but Vazquez didn’t exactly shine in less of a hitter’s park in ‘04 and wasn’t sterling in the playoffs iirc.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
What is it with you and small sample sizes?
I see that you pull this kind of BS a lot. Let’s see-Jon Lest has crapped his pants in his last 3 playoff starts (3/5 total). Let’s get rid of him.
What is it with you and overreaction?
This isn’t the best deal in the world, it isn’t the worst for the Yankees.
Vazquez has had success at times, but also been kinda crappy at others. He’s been substantially better in the NL than the AL at this point. Lester has been dominant for 2 straight seasons, has a .5 ERA career advantage, and virtually no pock marks on his ledger. Completely ridiculous comparison in every possible way.
Considering we got Beckett for a single good postseason start, I would think Vazquez’s 15 innings of 10.34 ERA could be noteworthy to valuation. I’m sorry I offended your sensibilities.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
How am I overreacting?
it is a good deal that strengthens our main competitor who add depth to their biggest weakness without giving up much and without paying that much.
I was not saying Lester is not a clearly better pitcher than Vazquez, I was was sheding light on your continued use of appallingly bad logic to make your questionable points. You talk about (both in the case of Beckett and Vazquez) bad playoff performance, but actually Lester has stunk in the playoffs, and you give him a pass. I give him a passs because he is a great young pitcher who happens to have had a few bad starts in the playoffs, but you, Sean O, cannot have it both ways.
I don’t know what “single good postseason” start you are talking about, since even in his rough patches Beckett has been a better postseason pitcher than Lester (and has shown that the last 2 postseason starts) but that is not meaningful. You can’t look at a few starts by any pitcher and make some sort of statement. Remember the statements about Sabathia being a lumper in the postseason?
And talking about overreaction from you is the worst case of the pot calling the kettle black that I have ever come across here. You are the guy who acts like he wants to kill Mike Lowell and Josh Beckett and is clearly emotionally upset by their presence on the team…and I overreact. Hmm, I see.
sure,
I believe that. Go back to your “Virtual Fenway” site that no one has ever looked at, and your comic books and video games. Your ranting and raving and stupid view points (like gee-Josh Beckett sucks, let’s sign Adam Dunn for X million dollars at 32 years old with his old player skillset and stone glove to play first) make this site a hell of a lot less enjoyable.
..wow
Dude, this is a Red Sox fansite. I don’t know what ridiculous anger problems you have, but personal attacks like this are really beyond the pale. Take some atavan before you go postal on someone.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
See, this is a thing we have now
We’ll look back at this and laugh someday.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
Too Long, Didn’t Read
Too Short, Didn’t Read
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
It could also mean #3 instead of #4. My best guess is Buzzy meant #3. But I could be wrong.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 23, 2009 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
Thats what I love
about Sox fans. You guys are Sooooo MIT.
Here in da Bronx… we don’t have these kind of arguments over stat sample sizes. We grab our crotch and say stuff like “I got your Javy Lopez right here pal!”
AL penalty
You have to give Vazquez around a 1/2 win penalty to his WAR for moving to the AL (East). Instead of a 5.6 WAR, you have to go with around a 5.0 WAR instead.
vr, Xei
Which is pretty much what he was worth with the Chisox
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 22, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
how in the world
does dice-k = pettitte? il give you beckett and lackey but cc’s a rock lester is very good but doesn’t touch cc just yet. i cant remember the last time i saw dice-k pitch. old man wakefield doesn’t fool the yanks lineup we almost always crack away on him to me your team has three starters lester beckett and lackey the rest is all question marks whereas the yankees rotation is now on solid ground. advantage ny
Dude
don’t post drunk
Lester = C.C.; Beckett > Burnett; Lackey > Pettitte; Buchholz > Vasquez; Dice-K at least = Chamberpot or whomever.
Rock me, sexy Jesus...
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 23, 2009 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Let me try one
Lester<CC (sorry, CC pitches more innings, and he’s more dominant than Lester)
Beckett>Burnett (Burnett is more dominating when on, but he’s too inconsistent)
Lackey>Pettitte (so long as Lackey stays healthy)
Buchholz<Vasquez (Vasquez is a very good pitcher. He did great, in a better offensive time, in the first half of 2004. His struggles in the second half were due to injury. He’s had success in the AL East before, and he’s pitching in a contract year, coming off the best year of his career. I’d give Vasquez the edge here.
Joba=Dice-K (Can’t decide on this one. Both had great years in 2008. Joba struggled last year due to the innings limit. Dice-K didn’t pitch. Don’t know who will be better this year).
The rotations are very close. I’d say we’ll find out in October of 2010 which one has the edge.
This sucks
Cashman took advantage of the fact that the Braves have a surplus in SP and were looking to move one starter (preferably D Lowe) so they can sign a big bat (consider them now in the race for Jayson Bay).
After this and the Granderson trade it seems to me like the other teams are trying to help the MFY and it suks!
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
The Yankees ruin another Christmas
Oh, look, Xavier Nady’s under my tree. Sigh.
This move will turn out to be something the Yankees regret.
Melky will do very well in Atlanta and now the Yankees are going to sign Johnny Damon to play LF. Their outfield just got worse and they added a suspect rotation arm.
Nobody fears Javier Vasquez. He will get a lot of strike outs and keep a 4.50 + ERA.
Vasquez in that ball park is going to be a nightmare for the Yankees.
Idk,
If I’m the Yanks, I’d rather have Vasquez and Damon than Mitre and Melky, which is what they would have had on opening day if they had stood pat.
It isn't about being a dominant pitcher
Vasquez will eat innings and keep the Yanks in games, allowing their plus-offense and bullpen to win regular season games.
He is not likely to be a difference maker IN the playoffs. But he helps a lot for winning regular season games towards winning the division so that you get TO the playoffs – with home-field.
I don't see Melky doing very well anywhere.
Solid 4th outfielder, but he’ll never be more than a role guy, in my opinion.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
Great move for the Yanks
Vasquez won’t be close to what he was last year, but he’s gonna be a very good addition to their rotation- he’ll put up solid numbers and eat up a lot of innings.
I gotta say though, at the new YS, a right-handed flyball pitcher seems like a kinda odd choice.
Not the best pitcher for them, but he’s one year, not too expensive, and cost very little. Hard to dislike from their perspective.
Doesn’t frighten me a ton, but does solidify their rotation.
Round 2 with the Yankees?
Am I the only one that remembers how this turned out the last time the Yankees went after Vazquez?
He had his career best year in Montreal in 2003, with a 3.24 ERA and 241 Ks in 230 innings, and the Yankees picked him up like he was the next coming of Pedro Martinez. Instead, he was 14-10 with the Yankees, with a 4.91 ERA that season, and only 150 Ks in 198 innings. Pretty significant drop off.
They shipped him to Arizona, which shipped him to the White Sox, where he managed one very good season (15-8, 3.74) in between two bad ones (11-12, 4.84 and 12-16, 4.67). Another career year back in the NL last year, and we’re worried about him returning to the AL East?
Not me. I am, however, worried that the Yankees decide not to bring back Johnny Damon to fill that void in LF, and instead decide to jump in on Holliday or Bay.
The Yankees did it again
They used their deep pockets to eat up money to pick up a good player from another team without giving up a ton. Vizcaino probably will turn out well for the Braves with the way they develop pitchers, but Melky isn’t anything special, mostly just someone to toe the line until Heyward arrives, and I know nothing about Dunn. Great thing about the Yankees is that they can use money (smartly use money recently) to fill any pieces they trade away for better players.
Well, that’s great for them, not so great for us.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Dec 22, 2009 12:28 PM EST reply actions
they're not eating up that much money
$11.5 million for one year. It’s not like he’s overpaid or anything.
$11.5MM is not chump change
Not even for the Yankees. I believe they’re now over the $200MM mark, and I while I wouldn’t be shocked if they picked up Holliday, I’d say it’s far more likely at this point that they’ll want to avoid adding another $17MM to their payroll every year.
Fact is, Braves aren’t paying a cent, and if they had coughed up some money, they would have gotten a slightly better return (arguably, since this is all hypothetical). Yankees paid more in money than in prospects. That was largely my point.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Dec 22, 2009 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
it's not chump change, but it's certainly not overpaying for him
I’m just saying it’s not one of those situations where the yankees are just using their financial might to blow all the other teams out of the water. There’s no reason that the Braves should have had to pay any of the salary (especially because the only reason they were moving him was to clear up salary).
You point is true, but only because the Braves got almost nothing for Vasquez. I’m shocked if no one else would have offered more and paid his salary.
No Trade Clause
Vazquez has a NTC that covers all the western division teams (both AL and NL) and he made it clear over the past few days that he had no plans on waiving it.
Well, the Braves were seemingly desperate to move Lowe and his salary
When they realized no one would actually do that, they moved on to trading Vazquez. I think every team in baseball knew they wanted to free up some payroll so they could add a big(ger) bat with that money. Plus, Vazquez apparently wasn’t willing to waive his NTC for a West Coast team, which cuts off the Angels.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Dec 22, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
Melky was going to cost upwards of 4 million in arbitration
So it’s really only like spending 8 mil.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Dec 22, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
$11.5M is chump change,
for Javier Vasquez. Especially when they only have to committ to one year of it. The guy was great last year, and even if hes not as good as that, he will most likely be worth the $11.5M. Melky is set to earn too much money through arbitration and is entitrely replaceable. Great deal for the Yankees.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
So wait
The Yankees get Vazquez back in ‘04, when he isn’t any good. So they decide to get him back when he’s 6 years older and playing in a far smaller park?
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
ballpark is the same size
and Vazquez isn’t supposed to be the ace. He’s supposed to be a 200+ inning eater at the 3-4 spot in the rotation. I bet he can do that.
It's bigger in Cf but smaller in RF
http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/nys_vs_rys_overlay1.jpg
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Dec 22, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
I know right, he's never come close to 24 HR in his life before.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Dec 22, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
i was more comparing his power numbers for games at Yankee stadium vs games at other parks. he only hit 7 hrs out of the 24 that were away
Eh, weird shit happens. JD obviously has a swing for YS
but at the same time, Swish had the reverse split. 21 on the road 8 at home. Sometimes weird stuff happens.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Dec 22, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
Nope
I can’t find the link but someone took the hitting f/x data and the ball didn’t travel any farther then other parks compared to the speed off the bats. It is just the shorter wall in RF.
Help on the link???
http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/nys_vs_rys_overlay1.jpg
Sorted by distance. JD averaged 379 and the shortest was 347. According to hittracker he had 4 which were YS screwjobs, 3 only would have gone out of 3 parks and one only would have left YS. The rest were either “plenty” or “no doubt”
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Dec 22, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
but whatever, I don't want to hijack the thread/
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Dec 22, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
You weren't hijacking
This was the link I was talking about.
http://webusers.npl.illinois.edu/~a-nathan/pob/carry/carry.html
Oops
I posted the wrong link, my bad this is the sorted HR
http://www.hittrackeronline.com/detail.php?id=2009_335&type=hitter
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Dec 22, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
17 of 24 in New YS?
Probably some sort of park effect there.
If nothing else, sight backdrop (how well he ‘sees the ball’ off the pitcher’s hand) and a sense of confidence there. Those factors can be just as huge as obvious physical factors like wall distance.
Six of the 24 were against the Red Sox – also implying ‘psychology’ maybe at play for Damon.
CF at Mordor has never been a problem
And as such, a shorter RF poses trouble for righty pitchers.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
I assume you call it Mordor because a bunch of shiny Rings reside there?
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Dec 22, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I like to think of it
more as a place where rings lose their meaning.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
Because there are so many of them
they are taken for granted?
No, no...
Nicely done. Well played…
Rock me, sexy Jesus...
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 22, 2009 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
Yanks
Rotation is better but still have huge ?? in the 4 and 5 slot with Joba and Petitte
Still have Granderson and ?? in the OF (Swisher really doesn’t scare anyone)
Bench is Cervelli, Gardner, Pena…??
This move definitely takes then out of Bay/Holliday
When did Pettitte become a ???
Though there is a definite need for another OF, though Swisher will probably still be around batting .250 with, ahem, adventurous defense.
Petitte
76/148 BB/SO Rate……38 years old almost 3000 IP on his arm…..I put him as a question mark because you never know when he’ll be done. To be fair…..Dice-K, Buchholz and Wakefield would be ?? on any Sox assessment (Buchholz maybe a little less after his late 09 perfornance).
yeah..how is petite a ???..the guy has been cosistent for th epast 10 years
an the ?? in the outfield will be solved soon i believe. Swisher may not scare anyone but nearly 30 hr’s should give people worries. He the kind of player that doesn’t look good, until he hits one deep on you. and he did most of that away from yankees stadium..now imagine him learning to hit in the stadium.
By all means...
… let’s freak out about this. I mean, how could we ever beat a pitcher like Javier Vasquez in the playo…
Oh… right…
Rock me, sexy Jesus...
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 22, 2009 4:04 PM EST reply actions
Oh, but many thanks to the Braves...
This is why people think the AL is a superior league.
Rock me, sexy Jesus...
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 22, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
NL East is stacked...
even more than last year… it’s out of control. My WAR worksheet now has the Yankees with 107.6 WAR and the Red Sox at 104.3 and the Rays at 100.7. Of course there is some flaw using this method because these teams will beat each other up, likely dropping 3 or 4 wins from the Yankees, 4 or 5 from the Sox and 7 or 8 from the Rays. But still…..
vr, Xei
Javier Vasquez
Vasquez was in NY in 2004 and sucked. He just had one good season. His last 4 years ERA were 491 442 484 378 467 and then a 287 with a career ERA of 419. So I just don’t see him turning his career around and being a sub 4 pitcher. They are just making room for a left fielder that was all. Now that worries me on who they will sign for that position. Lets pray it is not Bay.
But if Bay was exposed in front of the monster
What would TLFFKADV (the left field formerly known as death valley) do to him?
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
Really don't think a big name LF will be in NY
Starting to stretch the limits of payroll. It’s about $200 million even right now. They are looking at Mark DeRosa, which of course is no Holliday. Vazquez isn’t signed on to be an ace like he was in 2004, he just needs to be a good 3-4 starter, which given that he will probably have 200+ innings, 175+ strikeouts and and ERA of about 4.25 he will be able to fill his role nicely.
Yanks got a good deal here. It’s better to have holes in the outfield than in the starting rotation.
One Up?
The Yankees certainly got a nice pitcher in Vasquez, improving a very good starting pitchng staff, but Lackey is a much, much better starter and more proven in the AL and postseason.
Melky was a very good player for the Yankees, but this is a very good deal for the Yanks on the face of it. Now if the other shoe drops and they sign Holliday or Bay, that will be a coup. Bay/Holliday – Granderson – Swisher is good OF makeover from last season. I’m a bit surprised they don’t bring back Damon for a couple more years.
Much, much better?
Since some people are citing last year as an anomaly for Vazquez because it was his best year and he pitched in the NL. Let’s compare Lackey and Vazquez from 2006-2008, when Vazquez pitched for the White Sox. This should favor Lackey for two reasons: (1) two of those three years were two of Lackey’s best; and (2) the White Sox play in a ballpark that favors hitters more. However, when you look at the numbers, both pitchers are very close:
Lackey – (201.2 IP/AVG per year) 7.42 K/9 2.44 BB/9 3.61 FIP
Vazquez – (209.1 IP/AVG per year) 8.56 K/9 2.39 BB/9 3.69 FIP
When you consider that Lackey’s K-rates are declining and Vazquez’s aren’t, you can’t say Lackey is better. In fact, one could make an argument for Vazquez being the better (and more durable) pitcher. The MFY also don’t have a long-term commitment to Vazquez and are paying him far less than the Sox are paying Lackey.
As for Melky Cabrera, he’s an average defensive OF with a career wOBA of .316. Even if he improves, he isn’t anything special.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 22, 2009 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
Theo raises and Cashman calls.
I would love to see these two on ESPN poker. Looks like Cashman takes this hand.
What’s Big Pappy doing these days? I hope he is watching what he eats. We need a comeback year from the big guy if we’re gonna have a chance against the Yankees.
Hate to Say it: Yanks Are Now Number One and In the Clear
It just keeps getting worse. The season is already over and we haven’t even stood for the National Anthem.
Yanks get an awesome Lefty DH in veteran Nick Johnson. This moose could hit 30 homeruns in their new band-box…and hit another 10 on the road.
Vazquez? Fourth starter. This veteran is on a mission to prove he can play for the Hispanics in the Bronx. He may scorch the AL.
Granderson? Geez….this guy might play like a young Willie Mays….with the cap flying off his head as he runs round the bases. Polo Grounds flashback.
Don’t under-estimate their lefty they got in the Vazquez trade….good spot lefty veteran…he’ll do well under Girardi.
Yanks think Brett Gardner has more upside…it was time to breakup the Robby Cano – Melky love-fest.
Sox? We’ve got great pitching. That’s why we will stay competitive. But, our team? OLD OLD OLD. We must get younger and more power. I’d say – we are in danger of slipping to third or fourth place without Theo changing his spending tune BIG TIME.
by South Side Italian on Dec 22, 2009 6:25 PM EST reply actions
Are you crazy?
We’re spending way more than before, and we’re actually quite young indeed. To say nothing of the fact that spending gets you old guys in the first place, given 6 years of team control for new guys. You gotta assume they’re coming in at 28 at their youngest. And those types of signings will make you lock them up till they’re 34 or 35.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 22, 2009 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
I can tell you right now
there is not a chance in the world that Nick Johnson is hitting 40 home runs next year. I’ll be surprised if he gets 15, personally.
Which is why I think MFY are going to sign...
Holliday. They are going to need a bat to replace Matsui.
That's what Grsnderson is
I think the most likely option for the Yankees right now to play LF is Johnny Damon. He makes the most sense. Gardner isn’t a starting OF, and Bay and Holliday probably cost more than the Yanks want to give. That leaves Damon and DeRosa. I’ll take the NY and playoff proven Damon over DeRosa any day.
My gut tells me Damon is coming back.
Concern troll.
Granderson as “a young WIllie Mays”? Lay off the Shake Shack, South Side.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
I love how some act like this is not something to be concerned with.
Miguel Cabrera IS the solution to our problems.
Release Jason Varitek before ST is over !
Do not pay Jason Bay !!
Trade Buchholz !!!
Yanks one-uped Red Sox for sure with this trade
Before the trade, Yanks had the hitting advantage, Sox had the pitching advantage.
Now, Yanks have the hitting advantage and are now equal in pitching advantage.
Lot’s of time left before April 4th though. The Sox are an Adrian Gonzalez away from evening the advantage out
I don't know about that...
I don’t see Vazquez that great of a pick up, nor I do maintaing his numbers from 2009 at Coors Park East, or in the AL..
I don't get this
No one is claiming that Vazquez is a Halladay-like ace, but he is a tough pitcher that makes the Yankees pitching that much stronger. He really is not that much worse (if at all) than Lackey. He certainly has better stuff and has put up comparable to better secondary numbers. He put up good numbers in a strong hitter’s park in the AL in Chicago. Lastly, we can revisit his 2004 season with the Yankees. While his overall numbers were bad, this was all in the second half. While some have speculated he had a shoulder issue, at the very least he had mechanical problems. However what is interesting is that he put up 105 innings or so of a first half that is as good or better than any year that Lackey has had in recent memory. He was the best pitcher by far on the Yankees staff in the first half of 04. Good ERA, 10 wins, lots of Ks, good K/BB, good peripherals. Does this mean that he didn’t have a crappy year? No. But it should make you think he is more than capable of putting up good numbers in the AL East. It is not like he didn’t shut down teams (in a better offensive time mind you) for more than 100 innings in the AL East. You shouldn’t be suprised if he is tougher than you think.
But here's the thing
Does anyone think the Yankees aren’t going to (at least somewhat) easily make the playoffs this season? Yes, there will be regression, but now that they have depth I can’t imagine them finishing 2nd or third in the division, let alone out of the wild card. Now, the question is whether or not the Vazquez deal vs. Gaudin at #5 (or #4, however you want to slot things) is enough to push them over the wall.
I figured they were going to get in regardless. So the decision becomes whether Vazquez will indeed outpitch Pettitte (who, illogical or not, is the Yanks’ Big Game Pitcher) in game 3. The CW says that the playoffs are a crapshoot, so I guess we’ll see.
If they had an absolutely gaping hole they filled ala the Granderson deal 2 weeks ago then I’d be more concerned, but this was already a 95+ win team. The 11.5m is Burnett insurance I guess.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
As per usual, I hope this comes back to hurt the Yanks. That is all.
"Baseball is drama with an endless run and an ever-changing cast." - Joe Garagiola
Chowdah Chatter - an outlet for my random thoughts and such.
Hard to see how it would.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
Sox still have a better rotation
Lester is the best pitcher on either team, and we know that Beckett is capable of putting of numbers just as good as Sabathia’s in any season, although I don’t necessarily see it as likely.
I see Vazquez as being good, not great, in the AL East. I don’t think it’s any coincidence that his K/BB went up over 2 moving from the AL to the NL. He also got kind of lucky last year, with a BABIP 20 points below his career average, a LOB% 6 points above career average. He wasn’t super lucky or anything, but it did make a difference. I also expect his 0.82 HR/9 will raise substantially playing in both the AL East and Yankee stadium. I’d guess he’ll finish the year with a solid FIP around 4 in about 180-210 innings.
All in all, I’d project him to be a good pitcher going forward, but not enough to tip the scales back to the Yankees in terms of pitching. I will give Cashman a lot of credit here, as this was a great deal for the Yankees.
by Gnick on Dec 23, 2009 12:06 AM EST reply actions
Lester is not better than CC
their numbers are very similar, but CC gives much more innings. He’s more of a horse. He saves the bullpen more than Lester does. Lester is a terrific pitcher, but to say he’s better than CC, who is in the top 5 in all of baseball and in the Cy Young contention every year, I think is a bit of a stretch. CCs durability and ability to go deep into games, I think, puts him over Lester.
to be fair
this was partly management because for much of the year the Yankees middle relievers struggled while the Red Sox had some of the strongest middle relievers, so Girardi was more hesitant to replace CC than Francona was to replace Lester.
true
although CC has always been a horse that goes 250 innings in a season, even in his days in Cleveland and in 2008 with the Brewers. CC still would have probably had more innings than Lester regardless, but the difference in management earlier in the season may have made a difference.
CC is a beast
They’re both pretty dominating. I’d say at this point I’d give CC the tiniest edge, but I feel like Lester has a better chance of progressing further. Really, I think they’re about equal.
I know it is very close
I agree that CC does have a small edge, but it also is true that Lester may not have reached his prime yet, while CC is currently in his best years. Also, seeing CC pitch every fifth day last year, and only seeing Lester pitch in highlights and games against the Yankees, that’s another reason I give CC a tiny edge. I’ve just seen him more.
Lester is one of the few Red Sox I actually like. It drives me mad when he shuts the Yankees out (which he has done on more than one occasion), but it’s not hard to appreciate what he’s done. Cancer survivor, then pitches a no hitter, then becomes
one of the top 3 lefty pitchers in baseball (along with CC and Santana). That’s iimpressive. How old is he anyways?
Boy,
I’d sure like to have this guy instead of Lackey for 80 +
Miguel Cabrera IS the solution to our problems.
Release Jason Varitek before ST is over !
Do not pay Jason Bay !!
Trade Buchholz !!!
+1
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 23, 2009 9:57 AM EST up reply actions
We're bad at making these deals...
Our natural valor makes us bad at evaluating when teams (Braves) are cowardly souls who give up on seasons before they begin. Congratulations to the Phillies on the ’10 NL East crown, I guess.
Rock me, sexy Jesus...
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 23, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
Does anyone know Vazquez's stats in Fenway?
If he his a flyball pitcher, I don’t that will work with the Monster…
here's some
6 games, 38 IP (2 CGs!), 1-4 record, 4.26 ERA, 4 HRS, .799 OPS against
look at the career splits on baseball-reference.com if you want anymore.
doesn’t look bad, really, considering he was playing the Sox all of those times, who are usually a pretty hard-hitting group.
If I was the Yankees I would be icing more champagne.
Vasquez has developed into a very good pitcher. He is not in the elite “A” class of Sabathia or Beckett, but he is in the “B+” class right below. Lackey was once in the elite class and it remains to be seen if he will be again next year. Lester, Burnett, Pettite…not elite at this time. The better staff will be determined by who doesn’t get injured. Carl Pavano’s name pops up every so often in this blog. He never even had a chance to pitch for the NYY on a regular basis. Who could have predicted Lester’s cancer? Who wil it be next year? Only time will tell.
That makes starting pitching pretty much a wash when you try to analyze in December what may or may not be in May. So let’s look at the the other aspects of the game…who has the superior offense, defense, relief, bench, etc.? I hate to say it, but the Yankees are clearly the team to beat. Yook and DP can only carry this team so far. Manny is long gone and Big Pappy’s body is shot from carrying around all that extra weight day after day year after year. This team needs a major overhaul.
how does it need a major overhaul?
so far it looks like last years 95-win playoff team has been improved.
Fortunately, we have more players than Youk and Pedroia who are great ball-players. Papi struggled a lot last year but also looks in the best shape he’s looked in during his tenure with the Sox. The Yanks are certainly the team to beat, any team is the year after they are champs. They have a very solid club and will be a challenge, but they also aren’t exactly a team of youngsters. You never know who will have injury issues, but I’d be amazed to see all the yanks perform up to the same level as last year.
Yankees
You make a good point about the Yankees all having great years at once, although A-Rod got his numbers in three-fourths of a season. Sabathia and Burnette will probably improve in their second year, but otherwise it will be difficult for them to duplicate 09.
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