With John Lackey, No Chance Jason Bay Comes Back To Red Sox
by Randy Booth on Dec 14, 2009 5:37 PM EST
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PrintNow that the Red Sox have signed John Lackey, the odd man out is Jason Bay.
Bay, who rejected a contract from the Red Sox worth at least $15 million per season, most likely will be playing in a new park next season after the Lackey signing. If the Red Sox weren't really interested in Bay beyond their original contract, there's no way they will be now after committing approximately $82 million to Lackey.
This also writes off Matt Holliday, who many think is the superior player to Bay, considering both players' defensive abilities. Holliday and agent Scott Boras are waiting for Bay to sign (which may come this week), before Holliday signs on the dotted line. Holliday will most likely get a deal that is worth somewhere between $15-$20 million per season.
So who does this leave in left field for the Red Sox next season? Perhaps Jacoby Ellsbury.
The Red Sox have shown interest in Mike Cameron this offseason, a Type B free agent who is one of the best defensive center fielders in baseball. Considering Ellsbury's speed, the Sox could slide Ellsbury over to left and, most likely, see an improvement in left field. Cameron would also be a much cheaper option than Bay or Holliday, while giving superb defense.
No matter what happens, the Red Sox will have a new left fielder come April 4 -- and that left fielder is not going to be Jason Bay.
Good luck Jason ... wherever you end up (preferably with a team that has a first round draft pick).
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Learning
Theo has been taking lessons from his friend Brian Cashman. He has moved into stealth mode. This is a positive move after the Texiera debacle last off season. Makes you wonder if Theo won another battle with Larry L. and was able to negotiate quietly.
Quality pitching is harder to find that LF. I’ll take Lackey over Bay/Holliday.
"simul justus et peccator"
Bye Bay
Not worth even close to that money, let alone that 5th year.
Peace.
Welcome to Boston Mike Cameron! (get it done Theo)
Sox Fever
We Don’t Want Cameron , Too Old And Definately Past His Prime . Not Good !
U don't!
But I love this move .. especially if they sign Beltre or trade for Gonzalez. Either would make the defense 10x better. Sure Cameron is no Bay, but he can hit 20+ hrs have 70+ rbi, runs and is a much better fielder than Bay. Plus the Sox save a chit load of money and can always go for Carl Crawford or Jason Werth next year.
So
My question is whether this takes us out of the Beltre sweepstakes. Cameron would come on the cheap (1 year + mutual option?), but that still leaves a hole at 3B if the Lowell trade ever goes through, and I’m not too excited about a Youk/Kotchman combo. Where does Max Ramirez fit in? It seems like we have a few too many pieces here, and I really don’t foresee a trade for A-Gon.
If the Lowell trade goes through...
We definitely have a hole to fill. However, that seems very unlikely at this point and with Lowell, we sure are out of the Beltre sweepstakes.
If Lowell has health issues that will keep the rangers from taking him
I can’t imagine he’s in our plans as a member of the starting 9
Not so fast ...
Even if we are stuck with Lowell the Sox could still sign Beltre. Especially since they saved a ton of money by not resigning Bay or Holliday.
Just throwing it out there
Sign Cameron and put Max Ramirez at 1B? Could work
Thats what I was considering
He’s got a ton of power, more upside than Kotchman. A Youkilis/Ramirez/V-Mart/Jed swing with 1B would be interesting.
Don't forget we have Casey Kotchman
I’m still holding up hope for a trade for A.Gonzales, and signing of Cameron.
by beantownboy171 on Dec 14, 2009 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
thats right
It’s only reasonable. The Red Sox are the kind of team that looks year after year to win a championship on a budget, and paying Lackey 85 mill was probably an extraordinary effort. THey got burned with the Texeira deal and they were not going to let it happen again. But with lackey in, Bay is out (unless they figure a 1 or 2 year contract) it looks more like they’re looking to replace Beckett down the road, its doubtful really that he’ll be back to his old shape. Even if he’s ‘back’, this deal doesn’t resolve the power problem. The Manny-Big papi one-two punch is all gone and it may be decades before another one is found. And the red sox line up is no encouraging. Pitching alone doesn’t win you championships. Besides,the Yankees already beat Lackey twice in the playoffs.
ummmm
Victor Martinez + Kevin Youkilis is a pretty good “one-two punch” from where i’m standing. Throw in a resurgent (hopefully) David Ortiz, Drew, and Pedroia and you have a solid lineup with no holes. How is Beckett not in shape? He;s still in his prime and aside an in-shape Dice-K with one of the best young lefties in the game, the Sox have, arguably, the best rotation in the league. No, pitching alone won’t win championships, but you can’t you under-estimate the lineup. If the offense is even middle of the road this team will be VERY good.
Swell. Just bloody swell.
Lackey? LACKEY??
BLOGGY SAID HOLLIDAY! HOLLIDAY!!
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
we can definitely still get him
i think our payroll is around 120 mil now. we were in the 140s a couple years ago, and could go higher than that.
I agree with you bloggy
very optimistic sox fans. I was expecting a very different response when I heard about the Lackey move.
by Brian Daubach on Dec 14, 2009 7:33 PM EST up reply actions
Great move by Sox
You win championships with great pitching, not who’s playing left field.
Sox Fever
Correct , I Would Rather Take A Chance On Herida ( Spelling ? ) Than Sign A Washed Up Cameron . Teams Win With Pitching !
hermida
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 14, 2009 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
+1
Pretty much.
I definitely like seeing the Sox executing a plan for the organization, not just reacting to one move by making another. If they’re telling Bay to kiss off, it smacks of a commitment to better defense. The Lackey and Scutaro moves are part of a pattern. So too would a Cameron signing.
It also says none of these guys except Lackey is someone you want to be wedded to long term. They can’t find a Teixeira here, so they’re making moves that don’t kill their later flexibility.
I dunno, I’m a kool-aid drinker, but so far this all seems pretty smart to me.
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 14, 2009 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
Manny Ramirez,
and his two rings, begs to differ.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
Rosenthal
Rosenthal tweet
Cameron in serious talks with Red Sox on two-year deal. CF or LF unclear
To zobrist; verb – to overlook the superiority of a person or object based on misleading sensory or conversational factors. e.g. "My teacher totally zobristed me on that paper – I’d included all the points he asked for but I didn’t drone on about Grover Cleveland enough. He’s totally biased towards Cleveland. What’s worse is that Danny Dukowski got an A, and his prose style is terrible. He’s a total Victorino." deadspy3 - Amazin' Avenue
This move would compensate for loss of Bay
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10509588/Buzz:-Latest-Hot-Stove-news. File this under a ton of salt
Gonzalez
Epstein has no reason not to part with Bucholz and another OF prospect if it means you can get Adrian Gonzo on board. Due to the Lackey signing, no need to bank on Bucholz’s “potential”, which obviously hasn’t materialized enough for the Sox to be confident in putting him in the rotation for a full year. You know what you’re getting out of AG, and with Bay leaving, they need a middle of the order run producer. How sweet would his swing look hooking homers around Pesky’s pole?
Pitching and Defense!!
The Sox offense with a Bay-Cameron swap would take a hit but Scutaro is likely an upgrade at SS and a full season of Martinez offsets some loss as well. Even if the Sox fal from say 4th to 6th in offense…Defense and pitching upgrades will more than offset a slight offensive decline…..1-3 of Beckett, Lackey and Lester?? wow that’s like 3 number 1 types…throw in a better season from Dice-K and Buchholz emerging.
One idea is that Lackey may offset the loss of Beckett after this season.
Contracts
Sox were at 121+ mil in 09
Current Contracts for ’10
Drew – 14 mil
Ortiz – 10.5 mil
Lowell – 12 mil
Beckett – 12 mil
Youkilis – 9.125 mil
Dice-K- 8 mil
Pedroia – 3.5 mil
Martinez – 7 mil
Lester – 3.75 mil
Scutaro – 5 mil
Wake – 3.5 mil
Tek – 3 mil
91.375 mil
ARB Eligible
Papelbon
Ramirez
Kotchman
Hermida
Delcarmen
Unfortunately, no one (other than Randy) is discussing moving Ells to LF
Every media outlet I’ve seen is assuming Cameron goes to LF because he has already discussed accepting a move to a corner OF position.
the media is not yet SABR-friendly
Theo is. I won’t be shocked if Ells ends up staying in center for 2009 though, just because he’s young and they want to continue to breed him for the position as a long-term solution. Cameron in center is a much better short-term solution though.
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