Report: John Lackey To Take Physical For Red Sox
by Randy Booth on Dec 14, 2009 12:31 PM EST
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Print[UPDATE, 12:57 p.m.] FoxSports' Ken Rosenthal confirms the report, saying a deal could be coming next:
The deal is expected to be similar to the five-year, $82.5 million contract that the Yankees awarded free-agent right-hander A.J. Burnett last winter.
If the Sox sign Lackey for what Burnett signed for, that's a deal. Lackey should be a better pitcher than Burnett over the same years.
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Former Angels ace John Lackey is reportedly going to take a physical for the Red Sox, according to FanHouse's Ed Price:
Source: Free-agent P John Lackey to take physical with #RedSox. Bos apparently moving on to 2nd choice after Jason Bay. Working to confirm.
Nothing has been confirmed 100 percent yet, but if this is true and if the Sox do sign Lackey, there seems to be that another move would be in the works because of the logjam in the starting rotation. With Lackey, the Sox would have Josh Beckett, Jon Lester, Lackey, Clay Buchholz, Daisuke Matsuzaka and Tim Wakefield. Would Buchholz be on the go?
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If this was a sign of a move about to happen, it would have to be Gonzalez coming over, which I would love- Halladay clearly wouldn’t make sense and Cabrera+Lackey would be way too expensive. Can’t think of anyone else that would make sense. I’d be fine with that.
If it’s any other reason than that, absolutely no. I don’t like Lackey and don’t really want him on the team. Just too expensive for what he is.
I think most likely this is a move to keep everyone from knowing what we’re doing- look at every possible FA and pretend to be interested in all of them.
I don’t think we would bring him in for a physical unless we were absolutely serious. Using a player as a decoy would piss him off and maybe hurt future negotiations.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
yeah that could be
or he could be in on it, because it benefits him to make it look like theres more teams interested, but you’re probably right.
Or the rumor could just be false.
Wolf is right
Anybody will take a physical for the Sox, probably. They look like a team with money to burn the way they’re inquiring on guys this year. If it makes the Angels bid against themselves and their $18 million, Lackey would get a Sox tattoo on his ass.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
Though the strategic advantage to US is incredibly suspect.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
Heh it's true
probably very little strategic advantage to us unless Theo is just trying to confuse the crap out of some other GMs. Maybe to help look like we have another high-priced target than Holliday to help drive his price down.
Well, if it pushes the price up for others, it pushes the price up for others.
The best GMs are the ones who do every little thing, even if it is only a $2 million hit to someone else’s budget.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
Or Yankees
I doubt Lackey gives a crap whether the money comes from the Sox, the Yanks, or the Angels.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Dec 14, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
not necessarily
Someone’s going to get hurt in ST and Wakefield can be a swing man if you absolutely need him to, and with his injury issues he probably shouldn’t be starting anyway (unless the 4 days off is more useful to him than the 1-2 IP every 2 days.)
Wish Lackey would sign with the Cubs, because Lackey and Gorzelanny on the same team would be epic. /joke
+1
Wake, although i love him, more than likely wont go the entire season healthy so making him a swing man is the best bet
by beantownbeamer34 on Dec 14, 2009 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
Wake will be a starter until he gets hurt
They didn’t renegotiate a new deal to make him a swing man. There was a bunch of hullabaloo about him getting the wins record and such. Unless it was obvious Wake can’t start, he’ll start.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Dec 14, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Clay
If they get Lackey than seems to me that Theo is going to get Adrian Gonzalez from Jed … Buck And Westmoreland or Kelly with another prospect would than look like a good trade for both sides… That would be a good move for good talent if true… They should keep Kelly of the two kids IMO… If they get Gonzalez than the third base prospect of Westmoreland is redundant with Youk over there …. They can get a couple good young batter prospects with the extra draft picks for Bay and Wagner
And a really good one.
For some weird reason, though, I remember posting just that mistake here about 6, 7 months ago because I was thinking Middlebrooks.
Amusing to think about mistaking the two at all now.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Apologies to the Will Middlebrooks fans on the site, because I know we've got at least 2 who vote for him no matter what.
He finished strong and showed plenty of improvement in the right areas. So don’t hate me.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
I think this is all because USG went away.
USG leaves the site, and then all of a sudden Lowell’s thumb needs surgery and Lackey Claus is coming to town? And we’re supposed to think this is a coincidence?
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
Not just that but
I don’t believe Ben Buchanan is a real name. It sounds like a Spider-man character.
It does have an alliterative ring to it
Betty Brant, Peter Parker, Otto Octavius and J. Jonah Jameson would approve.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
Logan is my middle name.
Aha! Breaks your theory right apart, doesn’t it.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
So does...
…Matt Murdock, Reed Richards, and Bruce Banner.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
w00t
Spider-Man talk… I agree, very comic booky name
Homer: Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.
by DougieWentDeep on Dec 14, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
This does not signal we are getting rid of Buch.
Remember that right now Dice-K and Wake are penciled into the rotation. Wake just had back surgery, and at his age, a full recovery is not given. And we don’t really know anything about Dice-K. The last time this team traded away a pitcher because we already had enough pitching (arroyo), it was a disaster.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
It probably does if we sign him
Dice-k can’t be traded and looked absolutely amazing when he came back finally at the end of the year. You wouldn’t sign someone as expensive as Lackey to take Wake’s spot and I’d be shocked if their intent for Wake was to be a reliever for the year- then we wouldn’t be signing all these Boofs and whatnot.
There were several stories posted by the media that Dice-K was going to API to work out
I’d have to imagine the Sox are keen on making sure he succeeds with the team.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Dec 14, 2009 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
Holy Crap
Good luck in Boston, John. I always liked you in LA, and look forward to having you around.
Unfortunately, a sad farewell to Buchholz. I see no reason he sticks around, but as long as it’s not for Halladay I’m good.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
Maybe Buchholz stays
But that’s an awfully crowded rotation even with a hurt Wake, when we still have big holes to fill.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
Last year we had all of the same guys plus Penny and Smoltz. Theo does not mind pitching depth.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
Depth is fine
But we also need a 3B or 1B. and a LF.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
I'm saying maybe Lackey doesn't sign.
Good money is on him signing, but still.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
pitching depth is a good thing
The 2009 Red Sox come to mind as a reason one would need it….
(Or the 2008 Brewers. Got rid of starters in ST, had to trade for a guy in July, and the entire rotation collapsed in a frenzy of overwork and suck by the end of September. And they still won the wild card.)
I know that if this happens
There is a lack of room for Buchholz in the rotation. I just don’t agree with trading him. In two years Wake and more than likely Beckett also would be out. That would leave us with Lester, Lackey and Dice-K. I would love to have Buchholz then.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
So who would he replace?
Right now our rotation is:
Beckett
Lester
Dice-K
Buchholz
Wake
Wake just renegotiated a new contract and made a big deal about the team getting him the wins total. Beckett and Lester are obvious keepers. Dice-K is seemingly making sure he comes back in shape next year. I guess that leaves out Buchholz if a deal happens.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Dec 14, 2009 1:14 PM EST reply actions
Wake lowered his salary though. The Sox wanted him back, but for less money. Maybe they are not expecting him to pitch 200 innings this year, for whatever reason.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
STARTER BY COMMITTEE!!!!
lolz.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
Where in the world did this come from?
I guess this goes in with Theo’s philosophy of not discussing ongoing free agent negotiations. Definitely leads to some crazy surprises like this.
by Gnick on Dec 14, 2009 1:14 PM EST reply actions
I'm not happy about this
Signing a declining pitcher like Lackey for five years could really hurt the Sox down the line.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
The quality of this deal really depends on the length
Four years is alright with me, five isn’t.
by Gnick on Dec 14, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
K/BB down each year for the past 4 years.
ERA now a 3.8 instead of a 3.3-3.5
LD% against up for the past 4 years.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
He IS declining:
FIPs
2005-3.10
2006-3.34
2007-3.54
2008-4.53
2009-3.73
although, to be fair, his xFIP is much less of a steady drop. But coupled with his recent arm troubles and age, he is a risk. Don’t get me wrong-I really like him as a pitcher, but he is declining with arm problems and age (and does not strike me as a conditioning freak), so this is high risk high reward…
This still isn't some precipitous, insane drop
His peripherals aren’t ridiculously dropping, like a 2-3 K per 9 drop. He may be declining, but it’s not like he’ll be Zito after 3 years.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
Correct
but several things have to be factored in. One-it is a clear decline. Two-he is on the other side of 30. Three-he has had arm trouble the last 2 years. Four, the AL East has smaller parks+ better offense than the West (we discussed the other side of this coin before). So the question is what would you give money/years? Of course if it was the “insane” drop you mention I don’t think anyone would bother to sign him.
BTW-we will also lose our pick for him (that we wont gain back from Bay when he signs with the Mets).
I'm totally meh on this deal
I’m not really against it, not really for it. I see that it has to be a precursor deal to a Gonzalez or, god help me, Halladay trade, since I can’t fathom Theo getting another SP without a plan to flip Buckles.
But he’s surprised us before. I’ll welcome Lackey in, and at least say I’d rather have him than Burnett or Sabathia’s huge contract. Still, in a vacuum, it’s kind of weird that we suddenly decide to buy FA pitching if this goes through, right?
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
In a year or two Buchholz may be worth more than Lackey
Especially when you factor in his salary. Young, good, cheap pitchers are very valuable. Hell, Buchholz may be better than Lackey next year.
I’m not gung-ho on Adrian Gonzalez. He’ll cost a ton in players, and then a lot of money to extend. His lefty/righty splits are bad.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 14, 2009 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
Like Beltre: it depends on the money involved.
In my opinion, Holliday is the top FA out there this year.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 14, 2009 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
+1
but signing Lackey means no Holliday. I guess the Sox might feel the run prevention route is more efficient than signing guys like Holliday.
Then
They better get Cameron.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 14, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
isn't it sad and frustrating
that we will never really know what was going on in the minds of baseball people? it’s like the mystery of creation, we just never will know.
"What was God thinking with diseases?"
“What was Theo thinking with Lugo?”
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
The question isn't
“Will Buchholz be worth more than Lackey”
It’s
“Will Buchholz be worth more than Gonzalez”
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
Assuming there's a Gonzalez trade ...
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 14, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
If there isn't
Then it doesn’t matter what Buch is worth compared to Lackey because he’ll still be on the team.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
Unless they trade him for someone else.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 14, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly
I wouldn’t be surprised if Buch and Lackey are the same this season, since I love Buckles. But Gonzalez is the source of value in this, or whoever else we can get to fill holes.
In a vacuum, this is a ridiculous, bizarre move. But it looks like we could trade pitching, the one thing we CAN produce, for some power.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
Dude, have you seen his face?
Look at the picture below: he’s ZITo right now! I suppose the Sox could work out a licensing deal with Clearasil (“Official Acne Cream of the Boston Red Sox”), and maybe put some fruit vendors in Fenway so that fans have things to throw at the monster’s face, but would that really make up for seeing it HD every fifth game?
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
He'll be ugliest Sox pitcher since Tavarez
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 14, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
Sexy Lips was my favorite player
by far. Even have a Tavarez jersey shirt.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
I loved the guy too
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 14, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
Check out his most comparable pitches by age
… which you can do at baseball-reference dot com. They include such late-career luminaries as Bartolo Colon, Brad Penny, Freddy Garcia… okay, Kevin Millwood has been all right for a season or two. Of the ten most comparable, only Bunning posted a better than average ERA over the rest of his career. Not only is John Lackey declining, he’s likely to continue declining. I would guess his top-20% forecast to be league-average starter with over eight more seasons. His 50% forecast would be quite a bit south of there.
Can’t tell you how much I hate this news and hope it’s just a rumor. Lackey is not the guy you give $80 million.
Tony the Pony
by Tony the pony on Dec 14, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Who is then?
Anyone reaching FA will have some sort of an issue. Is this dramatically better than giving a hypothetical $120m to Holliday?
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
No
But I think that’s a high hypothetical.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
yes
that is the concern as I posted in his FIPs. It is indeed a risk, perhaps a big one. BTW-welcome back?
I read some where that his whiffs are down too!
To zobrist; verb – to overlook the superiority of a person or object based on misleading sensory or conversational factors. e.g. "My teacher totally zobristed me on that paper – I’d included all the points he asked for but I didn’t drone on about Grover Cleveland enough. He’s totally biased towards Cleveland. What’s worse is that Danny Dukowski got an A, and his prose style is terrible. He’s a total Victorino." deadspy3 - Amazin' Avenue
by bloodysock04 on Dec 14, 2009 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
Since 06
but basically the same in 07,08,09 with maby a very very slight decline. His BBs are also up ever so slightly.
Right, that's what I'm saying
He’s not suddenly imploding. Changes like that could just be minor statistical variance, not the sign of his arm falling off.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
The point isn't "Watch out for falling arms", it's just that if we do make this deal, don't expect to see 2005 Lackey show up out of nowhere.
I’m guessing that was a good year.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
I really doubt that theo expects as much
We signed needing best case for lugo and renteria, and arguably Matsuzaka, but I wouldn’t expect Theo to expect a 3.5 for 4-5 years.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
Thanks, Buzzy, for the welcome. Wasn’t sure anyone would remember this old handle.
SeanO: The current FA market is really, really weak. Especially compared to last year’s class—-probably we all remember the top three—-and the next couple of years, which will have Doc, Beckett (barring an extension), Felix, Mauer (ditto re: extension), Pujols and some others coming up for free agency (this is all off the top of my head, so apologies if I made a mistake about one of those). A couple of those names belong to players who do not come with the real age-related concerns Lackey has, and are attached to better arms/bats. I don’t know if Holliday would get that kind of money, but as a better bat and better fielder than last year’s LF, a Holliday would at least be (a) an upgrade (b) in a spot where the Sox need to get better. Neither is true for Lackey. The Red Sox don’t need more starters, especially not with unmovable contracts, and I think the proposition of Lackey being better than Buchholz after even this season is far more speculative than people are inclined to believe. $80 million to push Buchholz out of the rotation strikes me as nothing more than $80 million you can’t spend on the Pujols sweepstakes (and the Yankees already have a 1B).
Tony the Pony
by Tony the pony on Dec 14, 2009 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
I think the choice might be Lackey or Beckett (not Buchholz).
While signing Lackey definitely signals a higher possibility in trading Buch, I think it all but ends any chance at resigning Beckett. Theo probably does not want to carry two old, expensive pitchers for half a decade. However, I could envision Theo carrying extra depth next year and then just letting Beckett walk.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
I could definitely see that
but not quite so much when we have two big, expensive holes in the lineup. Unless he really does have money to burn this year.
I fully appreciate this reasoning
But the Sox may view it this way: Holliday (due to his agent and the fact he is the best FA out there) is going to get a huge contract that will inhibit his relative value to the team. The Sox may want to make thir team going forward a run-prevention machine. The can do this is the very short term by trading in guys like Bay and Lowell for guys like Beltre and Cameron. In fact Cameron kills 2 birds with one stone because they can move Ellsbury to left. That way, they are a neutral to (very) plus defensive team with a rotation of Lester, Beckett, Lackey, Dice-K and Buchhoz behind them. The can acomplish this perhaps at a price that only exceeds Holliday in cost for next year of, say, 10-12 million, and it ties them in for fewer years. Regardless of the offense, a team with Cameron+Beltre+lackey+Ells in LF is likely much better than one with just Holliday plugged into LF, and the money over the long haul is less too.
This might be the logic.
I hope you're right man
‘cause I goin’ nuts here!!!
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
Baseball Prospectus reported (rumor only) that Beltre’s asking for too much and the Sox are looking at Nick Johnson instead (with Youk moving back across). Has the reek of a negotiating move made through the media, but just what I heard.
Re: Cameron with Ellsbury in LF, I like every part of it other than Ellsbury’s bat in a corner spot. Don’t know if you can work past that, no matter how good the defense is.
Tony the Pony
by Tony the pony on Dec 14, 2009 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
Especially giving the minimal value of good defense in Fenway's left field.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
however
part of the value of moving Ells to left is not just that he plays it well (we think) but that he plays CF poorly, and his arm stinks too. The relative gain is high. I don’t so much care that he is a light hitter for a LF. It matters not where you get runs from-the Rays went to the WS with a crappy hitting Crawford. Defensively the Sox would be among the best teams I can recall, and they staff would be sick. The offense would still be quite good. All of this really depends on how much it would take to sign these guys.
With Beltre + Cameron
They’d be one of the best defensive teams in the league, easily.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
yes
only scutaro would be average (and we would be below average at nomeasurable C).
Beltre range will take care of that ;)
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
Oh BTW Buzzy
I think Beltre age is not an issue: LAD were fined years ago for signing him as a 15 years ild and the authorities went into a deep verifications of his birth papers!
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
I hope so
all of these guys seem to be 1-2 years older than claimed.
Concur with Buzzy here. 'Hope it plays out like that.
Even if they end up NOT signing Lackey – I still like the ‘all defensive’ solution to the outfield and 3B and net savings of $$ towards 2011 FAs.
Signing Lackey does open up the possibility of moving Buch for Gonzalez. I would view that as a longterm negative to the pitching since, I agree, that Lackey will likely decline, but the long-term value of Gonzalez may outweigh that.
Wow ... Tony the pony is back!
It has been a while. Welcome back.
What’s next, an Allen Chace sighting?
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 14, 2009 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
Epecially if it precedes trading Bucchholz.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Dec 14, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
Though if we get Adrian Gonzalez out of it, and extend him..
Well, then we got Adrian Gonzalez out of it.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
Very true
but Wake is on his last legs and if Beckett peaces out next yr, you then have 2 holes in your rotation with no real viable internal solution besides Michael Bowden. Seems like you’d be setting yourselfes up to pay another bigtime FA from next yr’s class. Then again with Lee, Halladay, Webb etc. planned to hit FA next year that could very well be what Theo is planning.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Dec 14, 2009 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
It is a nice year.
Bowden is probably not gonna be a huge part of the puzzle going forward. We might try and see if he or Doubront pans out as a #5 in 2011, but not much more than that.
Then again, with Lester – Lackey – Daisuke – Wake/#5 from the minors, turning Beckett’s money into Webb wouldn’t be too bad.
Of course, we’re also trying to extend Beckett per the article, so God only knows.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
its stupid to the point
that i know it won’t happen. An expensive long term contract for an aging pitcher? When we don’t have a third basemen of left fielder? never.
What I really don't like about the concept of him
is it means either we’re letting Beckett walk next year or we’re gonna have long-term commitments to 2 aging pitchers. Plus if he gets the money he’s looking for, that drives the price to us up of the pitchers like Beckett and Halladay who say they aren’t looking to make contract records, just want to get paid enough to show they’re respected.
I really like Beckett and don’t want to see him walk unless it’s for someone like Cliff Lee to replace him.
Beckett has been mediocre every year but 2007.
He’ll be overpaid almost definitely. 2011 has some better names.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
Mediocre is really pushing it.
These are the FIPs for Beckett’s 4 years of Boston:
06: 5.12
07: 3.08
08: 3.24
09: 3.63
Aside from 06, which is looking like the exception, that’s well above average. Fangraphs value has him totalling $80.9 million over his four seasons; he’s been paid around $30.3 million (plus bonuses) for those four seasons.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
I agree
but at the same time I think Beckett may be one of those funny cases where FIP and tRA value him quite differently because of his fly ball tendancies. Also, I think he usually also underperforms his FIP because he is a bad pitcher pitching from the stretch (IIRC his splts with runners on/off are dramatic).
Very good starter but prone, due to lack of GB/inability with runners on, to be elite.
some numbers
Beckett, career,
With nobody on, oposing OPS: .672
With men on, opposing OPS: .727
At worse with Men on 1st: .759
But he actually tightens up a little with RISP: .703
Horrible with the bases loaded. I don’t want to post that. :-O
Any Red Sox players you like?
Care to name a few?
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
Well, I liked Hanley, for one
which seems pertinent to this point.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
was going to post
he only likes ones not with the team…but then he posted it first….
The players I like
don’t need to be discussed, because they just get the job done. How often do we have Pedroia conversations around here?
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
If Lackey is signed
I want the Sox to do the following:
1) Sign Mike Cameron.
2) Move Ellsbury to left, Cameron to center.
- With a potential and legit FIVE All-Stars in the rotation, let’s sure up the defense. Bring Cameron in, move Ellsbury over.
3) Figure out Lowell
- If the trade can still work out, make the trade. If so, move on to No. 4. If the trade doesn’t work out, move on to No. 5.
4) Sign Adrian Beltre.
5) Try to acquire Adrian Gonzalez.
- If the Sox can acquire A-Gonz, move Youk to third (I don’t like him there either, trust me, but it seems like the only realistic possibility) and Lowell will serve as a backup 3B/1B/DH. Unless he can somehow be traded … which is extremely doubtful after all this talk.
And … yeah. There you go. Complicated? Yup!
SB Nation's Boston Red Sox community:
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Follow Randy on Twitter: @RCBooth
So you only want Gonzalez without Lowell?
Huh?
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
Wait, are you saying we sign Beltre no matter what?
‘Cause if so, then you’ve got Youk at first, Beltre at 3rd, and Gonzalez at DH with a Big Papi sized PR problem.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
No
I want Adrian Gonzalez. Period. I would love to have him, I just don’t see it being realistic with Beltre on the team, so…
If the Lowell trade goes through, sign Beltre. Youk plays first.
If the Lowell trade does not go through, try and trade for A-Gonz. Move Youk over to third and A-Gonz plays first.
That is what I would want to happen with how the current situation looks.
SB Nation's Boston Red Sox community:
OverTheMonster.com
Follow Randy on Twitter: @RCBooth
His point is:
if we do trade Lowell, why not trade for Gonzalez?
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
Basically, yeah.
If you’re OK with Youk playing third with the trade NOT going through, why not when if it does.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
because
Youk is much better at first. He’s only worth moving over to third if we have someone as good at first (like Gonzalez) covering it. No one else can really do that.
But what's wrong with
Trade Lowell
Trade for A-Gon
Play Youk at 3rd, A-Gon at first.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe
Because we want to keep Buchholz?
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
That works too
:)
SB Nation's Boston Red Sox community:
OverTheMonster.com
Follow Randy on Twitter: @RCBooth
Was that really necessary?
SB Nation's Boston Red Sox community:
OverTheMonster.com
Follow Randy on Twitter: @RCBooth
The use of the picture or the picture itself...
In either case, no.
Rock me, sexy Jesus...
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 14, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
Yes. Absolutel.
Now we need to mass email that to anyone and everyone in the Red Sox front office, to ensure that this deal doesn’t get done.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
My first warning...dam
Anyway, someone should take a look at the thread on HH. Its nice to see Angels fans getting their panties in a bunch.
So I see that Theo's offseason fundraising plan
of building an orbital deathray and holding the world hostage so that he has the money to sign every free agent in existence seems to be working…
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
It's still only one guy
The part I find funny is both Chapman and Lackey may be signed the workday after tix went on sale.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
Holding the world hostage for...
1 MILLION DOLLARS
He call’s it the “Alan Parsons Project”
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Lackey
I’ve always liked Lackey as a pitcher (beside the fact he can act like a douche while in the playoffs), but I’m suspect about the deal he’d command. If it is a similar deal as A.J. Burnett’s than I’d be on board.
Lackey
I don’t like this move. I heard people talking about how he’s a fly ball pitcher and its a bad fit in Boston. I don’t understand why they didn’t take a stab at Harden.
How did I not notice a Dauber screen name?
Awesome.
I understand Harden. He’s constantly injured and spent last year being mediocre in the NL.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
Simply saying "Stab" and "Harden"
in the same sentence has given him an injury. He’ll be out 2-3 months.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
Yeah I just thought it could have been a lower risk and possible a high reward.
I don’t know I’m really not feeling this move, I almost rather have them give up the farm for Halladay
Hell naw.
Halladay is a one-year deal. Screw giving up long-term guys for that.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
+1
The thought makes my brain hurt. People are concerned about Lackey, but at least he doesn’t cost a fortune in prospects.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
Yup.
Halladay would cost a fortune in dollars and prospects. With money the same, the choices seem to be: Lackey and Buch or only Halladay (or maybe even Lackey and Gonzalez). Trading for Halladay seems to be easily the worst option at this point.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
Isn't Lackey Injury prone
Didn’t he start last season on the DL
51 starts over the last two seasons.
But 33 starts for the 3 seasons before that.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
*33 starts every year.
51 starts between the last 2.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
I Understand Lackey is a much better pitcher than Harden
I don’t think pitching is the sox biggest concern. They need to free up money to get a LF and 3B this offseason if they are going to compete in the near future. The Yankees have already said that they are going after Carl Crawford next year. That line up will be unbelievable, and we don’t have a serious power bat in the lineup
Let them have Crawford
This deal for Lackey, if it exists, could solve our 3b problem. I don’t like our offense either right now, but at least we’d shore up pitching.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
Trade Buchholz + Prospects for Adrian Gonzalez is the popular theory.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
That would be fine with me
yeah that would be work well
by Brian Daubach on Dec 14, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
Youkalis
You think the constant shifting of Youkalis bothers him?
by Brian Daubach on Dec 14, 2009 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
It wouldn't be constant anymore with Gonzalez.
Things would be pretty damn set.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
Crawford is so overrated.
People do realize he’s basically an older Ellsbury with more crazy BABIP fluctuations, right?
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
But his value is in his exceptional fielding ability.
Career 14.2 UZR/150
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
Chapman money comes from Theo's draft/IFA bankroll.
It’s magic money.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
The only magic is people paying $90 for those SS Pavilion seats.
They’re nice, but come on.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
Don't I know it.
Loge is the only seat I’m paying 90 for.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
Also, Monster seats.
Brilliant idea. Get people to pay hundreds of dollars for bleacher seats by virtue of the novelty of the Monster.
Make no mistake, I’d jump on the opportunity to do it, but it’s completely created value.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
I loved my game on the Monster
Even though Beckett got crushed by the KC Royals, making it a really crappy game. Still, worth it for once in a lifetime, otherwise just get monster SRO.
Which reminds me, I had Monster SRO for a game last May that was rained out and rescheduled for 12 the next day. But, I actually do have to be at work, and so I couldn’t use them. Not happy.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
I HOPE IT’S A RUMOR, I HOPE IT’S A RUMOR, I HOPE IT’S A RUMOR, I HOPE IT’S A RUMOR, I HOPE IT’S A RUMOR, I HOPE IT’S A RUMOR, I HOPE IT’S A RUMOR, I HOPE IT’S A RUMOR, I HOPE IT’S A RUMOR, I HOPE IT’S A RUMOR, I HOPE IT’S A RUMOR, I HOPE IT’S A RUMOR, I HOPE IT’S A RUMOR, I HOPE IT’S A RUMOR, I HOPE IT’S A RUMOR, I HOPE IT’S A RUMOR, I HOPE IT’S A RUMOR, I HOPE IT’S A RUMOR, I HOPE IT’S A RUMOR, I HOPE IT’S A RUMOR, I HOPE IT’S A RUMOR
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
there are reports pouring in
that he’s signing with the sox. sounds like its really close
just search him on google
and theres a twitter thing rolling down
not to mention jayson stark saying
that a physical almost always means a deal is close. when we heard they were asking for scutaros medicals they signed him later that day i believe
Within 2 hours, actually.
But it’s not a sure thing.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
Seems like they're all just corroborating the physical.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
See above
It’s a telltale sign, but not synonymous.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
Or it's a decoy.
Again, we know nothing more than what we know. It seems a lot likelier than it did 24 hours ago—A TON—but still.
If it isn’t Theo price bumping, though, what the hell kind of freakishly quiet front office do we have?
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
Link, please?
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
New reports say a deal isn't likely within the day, and that the Angels still think they're in it.
Let’s all simmer down now.
USG
If we end up freaking out the Artie
into a 5/100 deal for Lackey, I’ll buy Theo a steak.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
The Artie
of course, being the formal declaration of his name. I should proofread.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
Make sure it's Kosher ;)
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
I love this move
People who say they would much rather have Buchholz than Lackey are debating using a false argument. 1st there is no indication that the Red Sox are going to trade Buchholz and it still seems insane that a newly hired Hoyer would risk his job or that Theo would overpay for AG. 2nd Lackey is a proven winner.
You can hate him, I do somewhat, but the guy wants the ball and wants a WS ring badly. That type of passion from a veteran, one with big game experience, is exactly what the Sox need. I see no reason why the Sox cannot resign Beckett and have a rotation of Beckett, Lester, Lackey, Dice-K and Buchholz, with Wake as a spot starter and LR.
There are very few good top of the rotation arms coming to FA bc teams must move them or get nothing. Lackey is probably one of the best available and only costs money.
Sign him and the Sox have the best rotation in baseball and precious prospects are either kept in the system or used to get Miggy C., Felix or Agon latter on.
Damn you and your cold robot logic!
Do the aliens actually have to get here with their mind control before you fashion yourself a tinfoil hat to ward off their mind control rays?
Rock me, sexy Jesus...
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 14, 2009 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
I agree, with qualifier
I’ve said all along that I preferred spending cash on Lackey over spending cash and prospects for Halladay. And I agree it results in a mega rotation for 2010.
I’m not sure about Wake in LR, though. Can he do that at this stage in his life? Knuckleball or not, the irregular work of LR is tough on a body.
The other thing this move does is destroys the Angels
IF the Red Sox get Lackey the Angels are forced to trade for Halladay, which means the Angels would of lost Figgins, Aybar, Saunders, Lackey, Vladdy and a few very good young prospects to only get Halladay and Matsui (rumor) to replace them.
Angels will be fighting for their lives in the AL West and the Red Sox would still be a contender.
Don't forget their whole damn team had career years last year.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
.332 team BABIP is NUTZ
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
Didn't you know?
Non-traditional stats do not apply to the Angels, ever.The only stat that matters is WINS! (and grit)
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
BTW guys I should be happy those days and not carring that much about off season moves
We’re havin’ a new baby comin’ our way!!!!!!
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
Congrats brah
Are you naming it Dustin or Pedroia?
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
Congrats as well!
We (my wife and daughter) moved to the inner heart of Yankee country last Spring. One day over the Summer I took my daughter to the park and there was a guy there with a Sox 58 jersey. I asked him what his son’s name was, and he told me “Beckett.” He was serious. I didn’t really want to ask. It was the day after Beckett’s awesome dual with Burnett in that horrible series when we got swept by the Yankees.
I ain't goin' crazy with the names
My wife will kill me if I suggest something baseball related!
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
If it's a girl, you can be covert.
Kelly
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
You mean like the stud prospect pitching for the Padres?
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
or Heidi?
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
Haha I'll run a poll for that next time I write a post
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
You gotta name is Westmoreland
The general public will get it in like 4 years.
by Gnick on Dec 14, 2009 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
Kids and wives...
you guys are all so serious…
But congrats, hix.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
I wished I live in my mom basement but...lol
Thx BTLove
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
Big kudos!
You know if it’s a boy or a girl yet?
Probably not given the recent announcement.
Either way, congrats!
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
We don't know yet
A Red Sox fan
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
Um and Thanks
You remind me of a freind who used to post here!
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
Congrats, Hix
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 14, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
Well, congrats guys.
So long as Lackey gets his Fenway numbers under control—and so long as it was a factor of facing the Sox and not the park itself—you guys are set to go for quite some time now. Lackey is awesome no matter how you slice it, and will be for the next few yeas, at the very least.
I shudder at the thought of the Angels having to face a 1-2-3 slug of Beckett, Lester, and Lackey in an ALDS next year. Good job, Theo.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
Did Clutch himself ever throw warm beer at you?
I don’t like when Sox fans get abused at other stadiums more than I like tigers or indians or rays fans getting abused at Fenway.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
Seriously,
Angel fan runs the Sux, steroids, and umpire BS every time you post on Halo heaven, asking if the Angels will win the AL West after losing Figgins, Lackey, Vladdy, and probably Aybar, Saunders and prospects is not offensive.
Just sayin'
I think it’s only fair to be on our best behavior, to show we aren’t classless wankers like many on Halo Heaven, yeah?
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
Fine ill ask the same question in a nicer way next time,
but if I am an Angel fan and they dont resign Lackey, even I question the Angels winning the AL West.
Now now
No need to antagonize the guests.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
have to agree
If Seattle reloads – and they apparently have the cash to do so – they could take the West away from the Angels next year.
Not saying they will. Just that its open at this point, given all the turnover for the Angels.
Well now that the M's just got Lee I'd place it 50-50 or worse.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
We will see
but either way-thx. I seem to recall a near no hitter in Fenway in 08 , a close loss in the 08 game 4 of the ALDS, and a good game in the last seies of the 09 regular season in Fenway…
I think I just threw up in my mouth a little...
Rock me, sexy Jesus...
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 14, 2009 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
Yikes
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 14, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah. Teaches me to go to work still drunk, huh?
Rock me, sexy Jesus...
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 14, 2009 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
Sign John Lackey
Then trade buch and prospects for adrian.
Sign Beltre. Move Youk to LF. we won’t lose much defense dropping from bay to youk, who is a decent outfielder in limited playing time out there.
Still a scary infield with beltre at third and Gonzalez at first.
:]
did you catch Youk in LF against the Yankees
last year? No thanks…
Its Kevin Youkilis
He’s a smart player, give him a Spring training out there and he’ll know how to play OF as well as anybody.
Honestly interesting.
Youk was playing LF for the first time in ever. Still, I doubt it’s preferable. But after a year, one of them could take over DH.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
no thanks
he never played LF for any stretch of his career (including the minors) IIFRC. The injury risk alone…
I'm just saying
Its something to consider.
If youk could do it, and he CAN, it would make our team that much more scary.
No, it's not an option
… unless the Sox have a massive amount of injuries.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 14, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
Injury risk is a good point.
But it’s the most common of fielding position switches.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
Kevin Youkilis.
Has made one error in 20 career games in LF
Errors aren't an accurate representation of skill.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't say they were
And I’m not saying he’d be a GG LF, but I feel like he’d be solid, and when was the last time we had a GG LF anyways.
He wouldn't likely be solid. He'd be below average.
But having a good fielding LF is far less important in Fenway than a good fielding 3B.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
how would we know?
have we ever had a good fielding LF?
Just kidding… sort of … :-D
Hmmm ...
Youk made 1 error in 148 career innings in LF. Jason Bay made 0 errors in 1279.1 innings last year, and he’s brutal in LF.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 14, 2009 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
not that errors are a good judge.
But frankly, Youk just looked miserably uncomfortable and like he had no idea when the ball was coming
Errors are not a relevant defensive stat
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
My only problem with AGon deal is that I just dont see Theo making the move.
Hoyer wants Buchholz + Kelly or Westmoreland to start…I just dont see that happening even with Lackey.
I wouldn't be too surprised.
All this “Casey Kelly is almost MLB ready” talk reeks of trade bait to me.
I said to a week ago, and I say so now.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
But Hoyer has to sell it to owners who want MLB ready players
Even though as a good GM he has to know he only needs guys who are going to be good within 4-5 years.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
I dont think Hoyer has a choice
you trade AGon now, get the top package you can and build for the future. RIght now AGon is at the peek of his trade value and the Padres are never going to resign him in FA.
Trade him now, with the Peavy trade, you just rebuilt your farm system with talented young players.
Right, it's a good deal for Hoyer.
But he knows more than the owners/fans in general. He’s got to sell it. Good press helps.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
I don't see Theo trading Kelley
all comments I recall imply he’s untouchable
Absolutely
All that talk about how close he was to the majors looked like a Marketing campaign to me!
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
Honestly
it is interesting as an idea, but I don’t think it is a good idea for the following reasons:
a)Defensively we probably now still have a very minus LF+CF combo.
b)AGonz can’t hit lefties to save his life.
c)We give away valuable prospects.
At least by overall runs produced/saved I doubt that even without the prospects this beats Ells(LF)+Cameron(CF), and that is also without considering balooning AGonz salary.
It is interesting, but given that Youk is likely a mess in LF, I would rather go the run prevention, keep the ptiching and payroll route…
Reply fail
And “can’t hit lefties to save his life” is a huge overstatement.
.770 OPS in Petco
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
a .1 OPS difference between L and R
Is not even remotely noteworthy. Home/Away is the big thing, and we only stand to benefit.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
I'm seeing .18 career
So, equally between the two of them
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
a 1.077 OPS against righties
Playing most of your games in Petco? Jesus, sign me up!
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
Nonsense
it is a hugh difference. First-disregard the Petco issue-his ROAD career OPS against LHP is 0.744. So I doubt that this is a park issue-he somply cannot see the ball from LHP. Any LOOGY or Sabathia or Pettitte will just shut him down. He is not Granderson, but he is bad, and that is a major problem.
He's Mike Lowell's overall #s against lefties
Not that much worse than Ortiz.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
And would you trade Bucholz/Kelly + others for Lowell?
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
No
Good thing he sees plenty more righties.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
I don't get it
are you saying he is Ortiz against LHP? Lowell overall? What is your point? It is a bad idea to stock your team with guys who can be shut down in high leverage situations. AGonz is clearly one of those. Drew sits against LHP and he has a career OPS against LHP of 0.805…
LHP are the exceptions.
RHP are much more frequent. There’s a reason Gonzalez’ OPS is as high as it is.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
But it hurts his ability to produce in high-leverage situations.
Its not good when teams can turn your best hitter into one of your worst whenever they want.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
So we can never get a lefty power source?
I’d much rather have someone who can murder righties, since they are far more prevalent.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
I want 2 way guys
Pedroia, Bay, Youk, VMart are like that. Even Drew is more than people realize. It was one of the keys to the Yankees offensive success this year. 2 way hitters and 2 way switch hitters.
I am not saying that Agonz is not a mighty player. I am saying to replace Bay by a guy likely as bad (and subject him to injury risk), to have substandard fielding in the outfield, and then to give up blue chips in the process you better get a complete player back that offsets this totally.
Pedroia: righty
Bay: righty
Youk: righty
Victor: switch
Drew has a career .804 OPS against lefties.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
Drew is better than AGonz against lefties
And he often sits against lefty starters. Why gut the farm for that type of hitter?
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 14, 2009 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
Drew sits against lefties
not because of his splits, but because he’s creaky and needs rest sometimes. Better to give him rest against the pitchers he can’t hit quite as well.
of course
and every team has a LOOGY. Are you going to pinch hit for him? In his prime, Ortiz was a much better hitter against LHP (like 0.988 against in 06).
And Gonzalez will be 27 when/if we get him
Ortiz grew into the ability to hit lefties. Gonzalez is a better pure athlete than Ortiz. Give him time facing some pretty good AL pitching, and I won’t worry.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
Shut down is a massive overstatement
I’d expect him to have around an .800 OPS against lefties, just like every lefty slugger since Ted Williams. I would also expect him to improve like Ortiz did from 27-31 against lefties from constant exposure. Against lefties he’ll perform like Mike Lowell performs all the time, around .800. Ortiz is a career .817 against lefties.
Considering it’s Gonzalez at the absolute worst, and considering he demolishes righties, it’s not that big of a deal.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
see above
ORtiz was as good a hitter against LEFTIES as AGonz is overall from 04-07.
Fenway's
RF is no cakewalk. Plus in this regard you are overplaying the park issue. AGonz hits like shit against LHP away from Petco. He can’t make contact against LHP.
Lowell
Daniels (Rangers GM) in a chat on espn Dallas today, about the Lowell deal:
Lots of Lowell questions, so let me sum the situation up here:As for the trade, nothing is final. As we’ve said it’s something both teams are looking at and the parameters are generally understood. Still some things to work through though, and it’s not a lock to happen. I expect resolution one way or the other fairly soon.If we did acquire Mike, he’d fill several roles for us. He’s DH at times, play 1B at times, and give us a strong option at 3B if Mike Young needed a day or had an injury. Some of the more potent bats available for the DH spot are attractive too, but we really wanted to maintain roster flexibility and have our DH be able to play defense when needed. Depth and interchangeable parts are so important over the course of 162… He also brings an element of experience that can only help.
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
I just heard Scott Van Pelt say that the Sox have reached a tentative agreement with Lackey, pending physical, for slightly more than Burnett’s 5 year $82.5M deal. Sounds like the deal is done.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
TOO much money
Theo, as much as I admire you, you fucked up on that one!
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
Not sure
It depends on if it is a guaranteed fifth year or not. Also, I think he’ll be better than Burnett over that time span, so it won’t be too far off.
Not really
$17 million or so is WAY too much for Lackey, now the highest paid player on the Sox.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 14, 2009 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
Any more confirmation?
Bah, I’m about to get on a bus. I can’t put anything up.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
Nothing is official yet
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For anyone concerned about Adrian Gonzalez
http://hittrackeronline.com/detail.php?id=2009_581&type=hitter
Holy GOD look at those LF hits. This is a spray hitter, not a dead pull lefty.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
In other news, the Mariners may have just won the AL West.
Seem to be getting Cliff Lee. The Phillies get Halladay. No news on what the Mariners give up, but damn. That team is gonna be good.
USG
My money on Saunders
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
At leasr during the playoffs you can enjoy a smart read on lookoutlanding.com
Mathew+Jeff>>>>>>>>Rev HaloFan
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
Oh, I'd definitely prefer to deal with Mariners fans.
I’ve never had any problem with them. I’m sure they’re not big fans of us, but nobody seems to be.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
nobody seems to be
Simple jealousy.
Rock me, sexy Jesus...
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 14, 2009 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
Pretty sure
it’s the invasion of their home stadiums more than jealousy.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
Are you familiar with RevHaloFan "work"?
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
I understand what you're saying...
…and I know not all Sox fans are as polite and non-descript as I am. But they’re free to buy tickets and support their team if they wanted to. Clearly they don’t want to.
Because they secretly wish they were Red Sox fans…
Rock me, sexy Jesus...
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 14, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
err
“they” meaning the bitter jealous fans of non-Red Sox teams
Rock me, sexy Jesus...
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 14, 2009 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
Lackey deal isn't official yet
When it is, we’ll report.
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I'm goin' to sleep dammit
I NEED A REPORT NOW!!
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
I almost did it when Heyman reported.
Decided against, though.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
I'm still waiting on something ACTUALLY official
No one has cemented it yet. Yet….
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I know.
So long as you’re on it, I can get on my bus.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
I should be around to report on it if it breaks
If you literally have to catch a bus, go for it haha.
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Do you hear that?
Its the sound of Halo Heaven closing its doors for good.
Could this offseason go any worse for the Angels?
I bet you're enjoyin' it more than anyone else here
U R livin’ in California right?
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
Looking more and more
Like this is definitely happening. I like this signing better than Scutaro, however I don’t like the implications this may or may not have for Buchholz.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
I like them if it results in Gonzalez.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Dec 14, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
I like them...
…if I wake up and it was all a dream.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
a nightmare if you ask me
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
Gonzalez
Who else would we have to send if we use a deal centered around Buchholz?
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
I just don't see it happening with Kelley
Leaving the ‘untouchable’ talk aside -
Would a package of both Buch AND Kelley for A-Gon make sense? Giving up your TWO top pitching prospects? You’d have to have a lot of faith in Bowden, et al, to make that move. I just don’t believe Theo would do that.
Buch + Westmoreland makes more sense to me.
Of course if they really do acquire Chapman, that restocks the pitching prospects somewhat. Expensive overall picture though.
Gawd there is just so much stuff flying around right now. I may need to just shut down for a while until reality settles in.
Wow....this was almost as long as some of the game threads!
All interesting points. Personally I’m against it, but if it happens, I’ll support Lackey nonetheless. What does this mean for a Beckett extension? Very Interesting.
Also F-U-C-K the LAAAAA Angels!!!! Haha have fun sitting below Texas and Seattle in two years!
"Hating the New York Yankees is as American as apple pie, unwed mothers and cheating on your income tax." -- Mike Royko
New thread, as it seems official
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