What would it take to get Adrian Gonzalez?
by Dustin's #1 Fan on Nov 8, 2009 3:46 PM EST
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PrintAs you all know, the Red Sox front office drools over the idea of acquiring powerful first baseman, Adrian Gonzales. What is most impressive about Gonzalez is, not only that he hit 40 HR playing 81 games at PETCO Park, but that only 8 of those were pulled. Adrian has stated that he has never played in Fenway, but he has been told that he would "love it there"
Sure, having Jed Hoyer, former employee of Theo Epstein, as their new GM could help, and maybe having Kevin Towers, former GM of the Padres, as a West Coast scout could facilitate the trade even more. On Monday, GMs will meet in Chicago, and you can bet Theo Epstein and Jed Hoyer will have more than a little talk.
In my opinion, in order for the Red Sox front office to get over losing Teixeira to the Yankees is by getting someone even better, and that's Adrian Gonzalez. A-Gone would be a great fit at Fenway because he is know for his opposite field power, and the Green Monster would help turn those deep fly-outs into doubles. But, why would San Diego trade their best player? They would certainly get a great package of prospects, and that gives them a better chance of contending.
So, what would it take? The Padres would want either Bard, Kelly, or Buchholz. The Red Sox would most likely part with Kelly. They should also add in Ryan Kalish or Josh Reddick as a hitting outfielder. A shortstop in Yamaico Navarro, and at least three starters, Stolmy Pimentel, Adam Mills, Micheal Bowden. It certainly looks like a good package:
Casey Kelly, Ryan Kalish, Yamaico Navarro, Stolmy Pimentel, Adam Mills, and Micheal Bowden.
New Padres general manager Jed Hoyer and his former boss, Theo Epstein, have likely already brought this subject up once or twice. Starting tomorrow, they’ll be together again at the GM meetings in Chicago. Hoyer, in fact, was likely involved in talks Boston had with former Padres GM Kevin Towers on Gonzalez at the trading deadline. He also knows Boston’s talent and likely has in his head what four or five players he needs to get from Epstein to make a deal.
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I do not see the Sox pulling the trigger
- 1: I do not think we have the pieces without getting a 3rd team involved
- 2: Anyone who knows anything about MLB knows the Sox NEED a guy like A Gonz. With that said, the already high price goes up even more bet Hoyer knows it better than anyone.
- 3: Theo Epstein has never shown a willingness to part with a significant part of the farm system in blockbuster deals.
We need an impact guy like Gonzalez more than anything, but I do not see it happening. I think the Red Sox will overpay for Holliday this winter to pacify the fan base. It will be a mistake and it will not be enough. We need Bay or Holliday + at this point.
VARITEK MUST GO
Brandon Webb in 2010
Jason Bay is not WERTH it
3rd Team involved
Probably the Sox will trade Mike Lowell to a team needing a third baseman along with, maybe Hermida. That team then sends 2 prospects to the Padres.
by Dustin's #1 Fan on Nov 8, 2009 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
nobody is taking Lowell unless we eat 95% of his salary
VARITEK MUST GO
Brandon Webb in 2010
Jason Bay is not WERTH it
Maybe we could find a taker.
We found one for Lugo, why won’t we be able to find one for Lowell? I’m sure that the Red Sox would have to eat salary, but it would even out the fact of getting Adrian Gonzalez at an extremely low salary, sitting around the 4-5 in the next 2 years, and we could sign an extension quickly.
by Dustin's #1 Fan on Nov 8, 2009 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
We are still paying Lugo
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 8, 2009 8:58 PM EST up reply actions
but we might be willing to
since Gonzalez is so cheap and provides so much production, it might still be deemed worth it to pay for most of Lowell. Doubtful though, I don’t see him as having much value on the market anyways.
You would start with Casey Kelly and Ryan Westmoreland and go from there.....
It won’t happen.
"Hating the New York Yankees is as American as apple pie, unwed mothers and cheating on your income tax." -- Mike Royko
Ryan Westmoreland
Westmoreland is a prospect in the lower levels of the system, Padres want major league ready players
by Dustin's #1 Fan on Nov 8, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
They would want major league ready guys
And I’m not quite sure if your package contains enough of those guys. That looks like a “Close, but not quite” type package for the Pads. If you replaced Kelly with Buchholz though, since he’s already in the majors to (hopefully) stay, then you’d be cooking up something with them.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Nov 8, 2009 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
The Sox aren't going to trade Buchholz unless they get a pitcher back
Right now, the Sox have a hole in the #5 spot in their rotation. Why open another hole at 3/4?
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 8, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
Not disagreeing
Merely stating that that’s the type of “major league ready” player the Padres are going to ask for. Buchholz is the guy everyone’s going to ask for at first every time we look into trading for an all-star type player.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Nov 8, 2009 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
I hope Buch doesn't get traded.
You see, you spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball, and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. ~Jim Bouton, Ball Four, 1970
His name comes up in every rumor for 3-4 years
I do think he will be traded this winter.
VARITEK MUST GO
Brandon Webb in 2010
Jason Bay is not WERTH it
I don't.
With Beckett set to either leave or make a lot more money, a cheap, good pitcher is extraordinarily valuable. We need him.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
I think most fans need to realize we may not necessarily have the pieces needed to complete a super-star deal
IF they want major league ready talent, and IF we aren’t willing to deal Bard and Buchholz, a big deal for a talent like Gonzalez or Hernandez is going to be exceedingly difficult. Lars’ value took a hit, Bowden isn’t a future all-star, and while Kelly is s a great talent, he’s not major league ready. Reddick was up in the show this year and showed good power, so I can see him as part of a deal. Kalish had a good year in AA but he’ll need time in AAA before he can come up. Who else within a year of the big league has a bunch of trade value?
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Nov 8, 2009 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
We should have dealt Anderson and or Bowden when they had value
VARITEK MUST GO
Brandon Webb in 2010
Jason Bay is not WERTH it
I could understand Bowden but maybe not Lars.
How many prospects with power are there?
You see, you spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball, and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. ~Jim Bouton, Ball Four, 1970
they're both still young
Their value isn’t gone yet- it’s dropped, but if they both have good years in the minors (Bowden did anyways), it’ll easily be higher than it was in the first place.
Bowden actually had some big issues in the minors...
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/blog_article/bowden-gets-roughed-up/
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
interesting
It can be hard to find info like that on players from the minors so I was pretty much going on hearsay.
It gave me a reason to do a Pitch F/X post about him, so I committed it to memory.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
Why are we operating under the assumption that they want major league ready talent?
Their system was ranked by BP as the 25th best system in baseball. It has very little talent. They are not going to compete in the next few years. If I were Jed Hoyer I would just want talent, plain and simple.
Clay Buccholz will be arbitration eligible after next season. He will be a free agent by the time San Diego might compete. In reality, I would think they want guys with high ceilings that are a few years away, like Kelly or Westmoreland.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
It's gotten a bit better
Not much, but a bit. They had a pretty good (but not great) 2009 draft, we’ll see if a guy like Donovan Tate will actually live up to his potential.
I’m taking the “major league ready” from reports coming out around the place, which could be wrong but . I’m guessing they see their very nice little winning run at the end of this year as maybe a sign that they can compete sooner rather than later, in which case they may decide to just keep A-Gon, which is still a possibility.
Really though, we have no official statements from Hoyer about the future of his club, other than the standard “We want to win”. Major league ready talent, high boom/high bust talent, who knows what they would honestly rather have at this point. I wouldn’t be surprised to see us trade for him. But I’d be equally unsurprised if we couldn’t make a deal work at this point.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Nov 8, 2009 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
So they can compete
as soon as possible. Why compete in 10 years when you could in 5?
by Dustin's #1 Fan on Nov 8, 2009 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
The question is not 10 or 5. The question is 2 or 5 years. Competing in the next two years just does not seem resonable. There are not enough pieces in place. They need some time to rebuild. If you are trying to compete in 5 years, trading for Buch would not make sense. He will be a free agent in 4 years. I do not think they want guys that already have burned a few years in service time. Not to mention the Sox are not trading Buch.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
As far as I know Hoyer only has a 3 year contract
If it doesn’t look like they’ve made much progress in those 3 years he could be gone.
He’ll obviously want talent, but I’m guessing you can’t just offer him our most talented Low-A players and ask him to take it. He’ll want talent that’s as close to the majors as he can get. Buchholz and Bard are already in the majors. Bard just got up here, he could be a prime target for SD, especially if they deal Bell (and I think he’s more likely to go than Gonzalez). The Pads are in the NL West. Dodgers might have financial problems with the divorce, Giants need hitters, Arizona is a bit of a mess, and you never know what Colorado will do. I bet the Pads can see themselves competing within a few years, not 5-10 years, probably more like 2 or 3.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Nov 8, 2009 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
In order to rebuild a team from the bottom of the league, you need a few years. SD has very little major league and minor league talent. Realistically, you look at a team like that and think, if they make the right moves, they will start competing in 2012 and have a window through 2015. So they probably want players who will be productive in 3-5 years. With Clay Bucholz, they will be trading him away for prospects in 3 years. I don’t see any way that they would compete before then. Josh Reddick is probably at the developmental point that they would like. However, most of our big-time prospects are not quite that advanced.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
I guess?
I’m just saying, we can look at the team from the outside and say what they need and how long it’ll take them to compete, Hoyer and Co. might have a different timetable. Maybe they think they can compete in 2012. They ask for Buchholz and others, and they’ll have Clay and Matt Latos leading their rotation, in that park, that’s a potentially great duo.
I don’t disagree that they need lots of work to get it together, but they have a few decent under-the-radar type prospects who could be league average in a few years, and if their new owner would actually spend a bit they might not be as bad off next year and then improve from there, as long as they’re smart about it. A team based around pitching, defense, and speed would work well for them.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Nov 9, 2009 12:22 AM EST up reply actions
If they trade gonzo, they have no chance at next year.
Let’s say they want to try and get incrementally better for next season. Is there any way that could happen by getting rid of Gonzalez? If they are shopping Gonzo, then they have decided to take a step back.
I could see them going for Buch, then if he turns into an ace, building a team with him and extending him. Maybe. Either way, Theo has not really shown a willingness to give up young, productive major league players.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
They had the best farm system in baseball for 3 or 4 years before they broke through. It took time to develop their guys. They did not go from worst ML team and farm system to the WS in one year. They had been building.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
They improved their fielding by leaps and bounds...
Had several pitchers have career years, managed to find Pena’s potential, etc.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
They do
They do have the pieces, only they are unwilling to part with them.
by Dustin's #1 Fan on Nov 8, 2009 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
Buchholz
If they do trade him, they have to make sure they can sign a good starter to replace him
by Dustin's #1 Fan on Nov 8, 2009 8:51 PM EST up reply actions
The Sox dont have a hole in the 5 spot.
Josh Beckett
Jon Lester
Diasuke Matzusaka
Clay Buchholz
Tim Wakefield
and Rich Harden under the radar.
You might want to see this:
SI’s Jon Heyman hears the Red Sox are still in talks for Gonzalez. Buchholz, Lowrie, and Masterson are “in the mix” with the Padres asking for Westmoreland and Anderson. Heyman adds, “However, the sides are still pretty far apart, and Boston is still in the mix for Martinez.” Heyman also says Bell’s name has come up in these talks.
The teams are discussing Clay Buchholz, Lars Anderson, Jed Lowrie, Ryan Westmoreland, Justin Masterson and others.
This was posted at the Trade Deadline.
How about a Lars Anderson, Jed Lowrie, Ryan Westmoreland, Stolmy Pimmentel, Ryan Kalish, and Casey Kelly package? Yes this will leave a whole at short, but we can easily sign Alex Gonzalez or Orlando Cabrera.
by Dustin's #1 Fan on Nov 8, 2009 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
Wakefield is hurt. Its unclear when he will be ready to play.
How old is that Heyman column? Just wondering because Justin Masterson currently plays for the Cleveland Indians.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
It was posted at the Trade Deadline
I just wanted to compare the “offer” they made back then to mine.
by Dustin's #1 Fan on Nov 8, 2009 9:22 PM EST up reply actions
I don't believe the Heyman rumor
For a couple of reasons: San Diego has no need of Lars Anderson, and it’s unlikely the Sox would trade Buchholz without getting a pitcher in return.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 8, 2009 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
They got that kid named Blanks or something...
"Hating the New York Yankees is as American as apple pie, unwed mothers and cheating on your income tax." -- Mike Royko
by sox-inda-south on Nov 9, 2009 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
Gonzo and Cabrera <<<<< Jed
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
Neither is Lars or Kelly.
But it is all we got of true value in the system….
"Hating the New York Yankees is as American as apple pie, unwed mothers and cheating on your income tax." -- Mike Royko
by sox-inda-south on Nov 9, 2009 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
Ryan Westmoreland
Manifest Destiny is easily in the top 5 players in our system. He’s worth the wait. If the Padres are that impatient, we could swindle loads from them.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
Maybe Bowden, Lars, Kelly and Pimentel would get it done?
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
Add in A shortstop and and an outfielder
Yamaico Navarro and Ryan Westmoreland
by Dustin's #1 Fan on Nov 8, 2009 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
Random Casey Kelly note:
When I was looking at the SD minor league system rank, I read BP’s take on the Sox system too. This was before the season and they said this:
Casey Kelly wants to pitch, while scouts like him better as a shortstop
I always thought it was the opposite.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
I thought
He was a pitcher in high-school that played shorstop on occasion. I thought they liked him better as a pitcher too.
by Dustin's #1 Fan on Nov 8, 2009 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
Sounds like a typo
Someone probably just confused the two by accident, writing quickly.
It’s indeed the opposite, it’s just about always been the opposite. I’ve never heard this before at all and reject it based on principal.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Nov 8, 2009 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
With working for the Padres Double A group as a grounds crew this year, I got to see what they had really in there farm first hand. They have a lot of people that can easily fill the spot of Adrian if they traded him such as Current Outfielder Kyle Blanks who was moved to the outfield to get his stick in the roster. and current double-a player Craig Cooper who held down the Texas League at first base, but isn’t exactly Major League ready in terms to his glove. Their bullpen is getting up there as well, but of course it’s gonna take a lot still to get the name of A-Gon to the Sox. A third team will be our best bet to get Lowell out and we can either bring in a player from the farm or move Youk back and forth from 1st & 3rd again. We have a lot of potential for a trade and it coming up as the biggest steal of the season so to say. We just need to get in the works and set up a good trade that won’t kill our depleted bull pen
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