Damon may not sign with yanks....scary
by beantownbeamer34 on Nov 12, 2009 11:19 PM EST
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ok so damon did do great last year, esp in the ws. and normally i would say nice to the fact that the mfy are possibly loosing him, but this gives the mfy a perfect chance to get matt holliday. This is so scary.... to me at least. Yes i realize that people think holliday cant hit in the a.l blah blah blah, but a lineup with teix arod holliday is terrifying. Any thoughts??
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Holiday
can hit in the A.L and in NY he would hit 50. The Red Sox have to go get some one this off season or at least keep Bay or you will see the Rays pass us bye for a long time.
All Truth Goes Through Three Stages 1.It is ridiculed 2.It is violently opposed 3.Finally, it is accepted as self-evident. kinesiologist
Baseball’s biggest busts Andy Marte.
by E5 on Nov 12, 2009 11:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Damon should take whatever offer is given to him by the MFY
Unless he wants to end up on some shit team as a one-year stop-gap like the Nationals
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Nov 13, 2009 12:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs may be interested at the right price.
Soriano’s meltdown last year and an opening in the outfield, could mean the Cubs may be looking for a table setter. Damon may be many things, but he can still hit, and has a decent OBP. He would also be a crowd favourite in RF compare to the year of surviving Bradley…
by superferret on Nov 13, 2009 12:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think just about anybody is more crowd pleasing in Wrigley than Bradley
But depending on what they get back they’ll be eating money on his contract. I just don’t see them offering more than what the MFY would offer.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Nov 13, 2009 2:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, he did throw them a ball or two... :)
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 13, 2009 11:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Damon will be back with the Yankees. He is in love with the tradition there just like he said he was here. Granderson will play center and Damon will platoon in left with Mookie Cabrera. And it looks like Bay is going to the Mets.
by yazooks on Dec 10, 2009 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The MFY aren't going to sign Damon for 3-4 year at $15 million a year.
The MFY spend like drunken sailors but they are not idiots. Boras give these bozo demands, as he did for Andruw Jones, or even Manny. The MFY may want Damon for $10 million for 2 years with the second year as a team option.
Damon is a defensive liability. his 2009 stats were Yankee stadium right field inflated. There aren’t going to be teams willing to pay that much for Damon. In some ways, Matsui is probably worth more than Damon, because of Porn Matsui’s low strike out total..
Boras is just being Boras, which means he is acting like a horse’s ass, which is an insult to horse’s rear quarters.
by superferret on Nov 13, 2009 12:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The MFY … are not idiots.
HERESY!
Rock me, sexy Jesus...
by nuthinboutnuthin on Nov 13, 2009 2:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The MFYs are like Bot Fly Larvae
and it insulting to Bot Fly Larvae to be compare to the MFY, but they share many of the same characteristics. They both wear pinstripes, they feed off their host, and need bloodsuckers to transport them to their feeding host.
Boras is similarity to a mosquito, except he is a male, but he has the same high pitch whine as female mosquitos.
by superferret on Nov 13, 2009 2:53 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The Yankees "spend like drunken sailors but they are not idiots"?
Carl Pavano, Jeff Weaver, Jose Contreras, Javier Vazquez, Jarded Wright, Kavin Brown, Randy Johnson, Kyle Farnsworth, and Kei Igawa would disagreee
I wonder if Bud Selig will give the Yankees a receipt with their World Series purchase
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 13, 2009 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree on Contreras...
Remember the Sox went all out on Contreras as well, I think Lucchino’s quote about the “Evil Empire” was after the MFY snatch Contreras from the Sox’s grasp.
Contreras by scouting standards was the promised child. He showed his potential in only one good year in 2005 with the lesser Sox, he just couldn’t hold it together on the mound.
Johnson’s time with the MFY wasn’t bad, nor that great either, but the Yankees gave up the farm for Johnson, and he had huge expectations on him to be their ace.
Pavano, Brown and Igawa, I don’t disagree with, only Brown wasn’t an unmitigated disaster, but he was mediocre pitcher with an awful contract.
I hate the MFY. However, they are one of the highest value sport franchises in the world, up there with Manchester United and Real Madrid. They could easily financially mismanaged their club like the Cubs, Rangers and/or Dodgers.
by superferret on Nov 13, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think
that the Yanks could easily afford Holliday, but my guess is since they already pretty much have a world series caliber team (even without Damon), they’ll probably hold off on any huge contracts this year so that in the strong market next year they can spend an absolutely unholy amount of money.
I would prefer to see them take Holliday, honestly.
by wolf9309 on Nov 13, 2009 9:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
BLOGGY WANTS HOLLIDAY
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
by Bloggy on Nov 13, 2009 9:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
AS DOES BS
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 13, 2009 11:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
AND BT
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Nov 14, 2009 2:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The third person...
…to speak in the third person.
I just BLEW YOUR MIND.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
by Bloggy on Nov 14, 2009 10:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't you mean, "BLOGGY JUST BLEW YOUR MIND"?
Or would that have made it less mindblowing?
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 14, 2009 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Less.
Cuz I already did the 3rd person thing up above. Woulda been overkill. ;)
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
by Bloggy on Nov 14, 2009 7:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Please excuse my ignorance, I haven't had a chance to study this subject.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 14, 2009 7:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Since when does that stop them?
Its the MFY. You think having a WS calibar team will stop them from spending huge amounts of money? they are stupid with thier money.
by Silentjay on Nov 19, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
they're rarely stupid with their money
some bad decisions, but being a GM is partly gambling. I don’t think Cashman has done too much stupid since taking over.
I think the fact that next years FA class is so strong will make it so they aren’t going to want pretty good players locked into their team for a long time when there are more promising players to spend money on next year.
Also, they are consistently way above the CBT which essentially means that for every player they sign, they’re actually paying 40% more than the contract is. This means, while they’ll gladly overpay ridiculously for great players, they’re not going to do it unless it’s the kind of player that very rarely pops up (Tex, Arod, Sabbathia)-the best for their position who should be able to last a long time.
by wolf9309 on Nov 19, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't be scared Sox fans
I doubt the Yanks are getting Holliday. I’ve heard that they are reluctant to give out another long term contract. Curtis Granderson (in a trade) is a bigger possibility. But I don’t think they’re getting Holliday.
I’m thinking Damon’s coming back. Thats just a gut feeling, but I think he’s coming back.
by nyyrocks29 on Nov 14, 2009 12:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
?
Why trade for Granderson? If they want power, they’d go with either Holliday or Bay. If they want speed, Scone Figgins is available. I thought the Yanks were high on Austin Jackson for CF.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on Nov 14, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They are
thats why I really hope they DON’T get Granderson. He’s not worth giving up all the high prospects for, particularly AJAX and Jesus Montero.
by nyyrocks29 on Nov 15, 2009 6:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Granderson?
Awesome. We just have to make sure he faces nothing but lefties and he’ll never trouble us. He couldn’t hit a beach ball if it was thrown by a LHP
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Nov 14, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Short porch might help him when he does make contact.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 14, 2009 6:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yea
I could see that. Lester would kill him.
Hopefully the prospects stay with the Yanks and Granderson stays in Detroit
by nyyrocks29 on Nov 15, 2009 6:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They may not get Holliday at Boras extorted terms..
It is the market can bear, and what has come out of the GM meeting is that teams are financially hurting, with the Cubs and Tigers looking like sellers than buyers, especially the Tigers.
Damon will go where the money and contract length will take him, and the only one who will offer him than an year deal are the MFY. (Granted, the second year will be an team option)
The MFY need to put their money into pitching, if they don’t sign Petite, and they are going to have big problems if Hughes performs as he did during the playoffs than in the regular season.
I don’t think Holliday would do well in either Boston or New York.
by superferret on Nov 14, 2009 5:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why not?
He finished his time in Oakland pretty well, and putting him in Fenway with a better lineup would help him. Facing the AL East more often might negate some of that, but he’d probably be no worse than he’s been in St. Louis, and possibly as good as he was in Colorado.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 14, 2009 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ignore his Coors Park stats..
Just look at his almost MVP 2007 year stats on the road. his 2007 OPS sans Coors Field was .859 and OBP was .374. Holliday is a .300 hitter, Coors Field or not, which is promising, but.. he is way, way overpriced.
Holliday is a good hitter, but at this moment, I’d rather have Bay. Mainly for the RBIs.
Holliday should stay in St. Louis, he probably gets some help with Don Alberto in the order, and vice versa, and I think St. Louis will help his stats. I don’t think right now, Holliday would do well with the Sox or the MFY. The MFY should look for pitching, and kidnapped Cliff Lee.
If the Sox are looking for others outside of Bay, they need someone to help Papi and vice versa. Youk shouldn’t be clean up, but his stats don’t lie
Holliday’s fielding is suspect. As much as I griped about JD Drew, his fielding is top rate.
by superferret on Nov 14, 2009 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We disagree too much.
Nevermind my opinion of RBI as an evaluative tool, but Matt Holliday consistently drives in more runs than Jason Bay. As offensive players, I think they are pretty even.
However, from everything I have read (in conjunction with UZR), it is pretty unanimous that Matt Holliday is a very good fielder and Jason Bay is a very bad fielder.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Nov 14, 2009 7:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you know Manny's 2007 UZR?
It was -21.0 !!!! the next year it was a -2.5. This year with a suspension if was up to a Manny gold glove like -7.8.. (ie a Manny gold glove isn’t worth much)
I know Bay’s 2007 UZR was -11.5, but I am guessing that the Green Monster is a no friend for the Sox’s LF UZR.
by superferret on Nov 14, 2009 7:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that Fenway might depress UZR a little but in LF, but Jacoby has posted a UZR of 10.1 in 80 games in LF (i wish there were home/road splits available for UZR).
Bay has been a negative fielder almost ever year of his career, even in Pittsburgh. I’ve watched many of his games and he always appears slow out there. I have not watched much Holliday, but I have never heard anything bad about his defense.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Nov 14, 2009 8:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He had a few issues once he joined the Cards last year, leading to a lower UZR.
The error didn’t help his rep.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 14, 2009 8:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
see game 2 bottom of the 9th of the 2009 NLDS for Holliday's defense
granted it was dusk, a difficult time to get a good bearing, and it is easy to get it lost in the crowd clutter, but still. Holliday’s time when the Rockies played the e Sox in 2007 regular season and in the playoff didn’t stand out as Dewey Evans like.
by superferret on Nov 14, 2009 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
One more thing, Bad UZR or Jacoby Ellsbury Bad UZR..
Bay didn’t make an error in 2009. That should count for something.
I don’t disagree that Bay isn’t a great outfielder.
My solution? Replace the monster’s plastic covering to the original tin, when it was replace in 1976, or make it a latex wall
Or use some sort of ionic electricity generator so the balls hit the wall flat when visiting teams are at bat, and turned off when the Sox are at bat so when there is a wall ball, it has some bounce.
by superferret on Nov 14, 2009 11:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hahaha.
Yes, his lack of errors should mean something; it means that when he made a play on a ball, he didn’t drop it or throw it away. Nothing less, nothing more. That’s why UZR is split into Error Runs (which improves errors by telling you how much more one cost than another), Range Runs, and Arm Runs [and Double Play Runs, but for infielders].
There’s more to defense than what the fielder does after he makes contact with the ball, and scorers don’t account for it. Errors are rarely given to fielders who can’t reach a ball that most other fielders can, but if a fielder just drops a ball that no one else could get to, it’s scored an error. If a throw is made to the wrong base, or not at all, an error isn’t scored.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 15, 2009 1:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Let’s not point to one play to judge a player’s ability. Please.
I don’t think anyone is saying that Holliday is the best fielder in the majors, but Bay is one of the worst. So if Holliday is solidly above average (which seems to be the concensus), he will save at least 15 runs per year.
And per errors: an error is not any more costly than a ball that is not reached because of lack of range. So it certainly counts for something that Jason Bay does not make many errors, but that is accounted for in UZR.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Nov 15, 2009 1:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't say Bay is one of the worst right now, but he will be soon.
Either because of breaking down or because the Adam Dunns of the world aren’t penciled into LF anymore.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 15, 2009 1:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
According to Fangraphs, he has been the fifth worst fielder in the league over the last three seasons.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Nov 15, 2009 1:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There's that tricky wording though.
He’s not the necessarily one of the worst fielders, just one of the fielders who played poorly by UZR’s judgement. That might be the product of its lack of awareness when it comes to walls, or there could be another facet of Bay’s skills that UZR doesn’t appreciate as much as it probably should.
On a related note, I cannot WAIT for data to start coming in from the camera systems so that most of these issues can be resolved.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 15, 2009 1:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Little late to the convo
But UZR is questionable at best. Here’s KLaw’s ’splanin it.
Tyler Hissey writes that Jason Bay’s defense is “an inconvenient truth” for Bay’s agent, pointing out that UZR has had Bay as 10 or more runs below average on defense for three straight years. I agree that Bay is a below-average defender, but The Monster seems to play havoc with defensive statistics. Revised Zone Rating, for example, has him a little below the median for left fielders but with a relatively low total of plays made “out of zone,” which may be a function of the park (you can’t make an out-of-zone play behind the fence) or just a reflection of Bay’s limited range.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Nov 17, 2009 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
except
he consistently posted bad UZR in Pittsburgh too.
I do agree UZR is a very flawed stat, and that Bay is not nearly as bad as it shows, but there is some truth that he’s not a very strong defender
by wolf9309 on Nov 17, 2009 6:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
UZR is always cited to knock Ells too.
Hard to make a play when the ball is 20 feet up off the Wall.
Re: Bay/Pittsburgh, in Bay’s two season with double-digit bad UZR – 2007 and 2008 – the Pirates pitching wasn’t exactly adept at keeping the ball in play, giving up the 6th- and 4th-most HRs in the NL and allowing HRs to righties at a 2:1 ratio over lefties.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Nov 17, 2009 7:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Though not to say Bay is Yaz out there with the glove.
Just that he’s no Wily Mo.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Nov 17, 2009 7:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A player's UZR is not affected by HR
So the number of HR the Pirates allowed when Bay played LF in Pittsburgh is irrelevent.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 18, 2009 7:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 18, 2009 6:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Doh.
Did I misread Klaw, or was he wrong?
(you can’t make an out-of-zone play behind the fence)
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Nov 19, 2009 12:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A smaller OF, like LF in Fenway, means that there is less space outside the player’s defensive zone.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 19, 2009 9:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You're right, it's not.
UZR doesn’t know the difference between a ball that reaches a bucket by bouncing off the wall or by flying straight to it. But you can combine UZR with, say, the Fans’ Scouting Report or your own observations, and come up with a decent estimation of a players’ skill.
Bay doesn’t have a very good arm, plays a little too close to the wall, and doesn’t come up on balls very well. Positioning could be easily fixed, and the last issue might be easily fixable too (aside from better positioning lessening the number of times he has to come up)
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 14, 2009 8:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hrm that's different from what i've noticed
not that I’m a pro scout or anything, but from when I’ve seen him, it looks like he’s been very good at playing balls off of the monster (though yeah his arm isn’t incredibly strong, he’s pretty accurate), but seems to not read terribly well and can’t always get to the ball. I’ve always thought he seemed acceptable for fenway since he seems pretty good at playing the monster
by wolf9309 on Nov 14, 2009 9:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He is, but it'd help him to play a little further from the wall...
If nothing else, it’d lessen the number of times he has to run up to play a ball, and shorten the distance he has to through.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 14, 2009 9:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
gotcha
makes sense to me.
I do think he plays alright for fenway, I won’t be unhappy if he’s back next year, I’ll just be ecstatic if Holliday is there (unless he gets the Teix-like contract Boras wants)
by wolf9309 on Nov 14, 2009 9:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 14, 2009 9:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Someone described MH as competent as a fielder
That’s about right. His arm isn’t very strong either.
by Salty on Nov 16, 2009 9:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd take the stats from 2007 sans Coors no problem.
He’d be playing half his games in Fenway, which would help him (RHH w/ power + short LF = good). Papi should be okay now that his eyes will be okay for a full season.
Why do you think Holliday’s fielding is suspect? Aside from his short time in St. Louis (and the error in the playoffs), he’s been pretty good defensively for his career.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 14, 2009 7:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"No worse than he's been in St. Louis"?
If we knew he would put up that kind of performance, we would be going after him hard. Projecting his numbers over 550 AB, Holliday hit:
.353/.419/.604, 30 HR, 129 RBI, 98 R, 37 2B
He was one of the best hitters in baseball while he was with St. Louis. I don’t think he can keep up that pace, especially playing with the Sox in the AL East
by Schulz on Nov 14, 2009 7:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, I definitely thought he cooled off more towards the end of the season.
Okay, slightly below that, but only because that’s a pretty small sample size.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 14, 2009 7:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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