Free Agents
I check out MLB trade rumors a lot, and they recently posted MLB's to 50 FAs and predictions for their destinations. Take it with a grain of salt but, I thought some of these predictions would make for an interesting discussion. Here's who they have landing with the Red Sox:
3. Jason Bay - Red Sox. It's been rumored the Red Sox are willing to offer four years and $60MM to Bay. That seems to be a fair opening bid, given his defensive struggles.
8. Marco Scutaro - Red Sox. It's difficult to place Scutaro, because not many teams with shortstop vacacies will be willing to pay the three years and $18MM+ he'll likely demand. The Sox would be getting the best available shortstop here, but they could instead choose Jed Lowrie and/or Alex Gonzalez.
10. Rich Harden - Red Sox. A one-year deal with a $7MM base salary would be difficult for Harden to resist. His injuries are maddening, but he leads free agent starters with a 10.9 K/9.
17. Aroldis Chapman - Red Sox. They've been heavily involved with Chapman from the start, and may consider him a long-term investment worth more than $20MM.
32. Tim Wakefield - Red Sox. Wakefield had back surgery in October, but the Red Sox will probably still view him as a bargain at $4MM.
Here's the link if you want to check out the other predictions.
Obviously Tim Wakefield is a done deal, and I agree that the Sox will sign Bay in the end, but I have trouble believing that they would sign all three of the others. I love the Chapman idea. Our farm system has no one that will be ready in a year or two, and Chapman would fill that void.
Harden was a decent SP last year for the Cubs (9-9, 4.09 ERA, 1.34 WHIP, 171K/67BB, 141 IP), but he could add some great depth to our rotation. You can never have too much pitching, and adding Harden would give us 6 SP, with Chapman likely spending time in the minors.
Idk how I feel about Scutaro, but with a lack of other options, he's probably out best bet.
2010
Rotation: Beckett, Lester, Buchholz, Dice-K, Harden or Wakefield.
Lineup: Ells, Pedroia, VMart, Youk, Bay, Ortiz, Lowell, Drew, Scutaro.
0 recs |
175 comments
| Add comment
Comments
I’m not big on Scutaro. Before this year I had no idea who he was, suddenly he performs in a contract year plus he is 34 years old. I say avoid him at all costs.
I’d like to sign one of the free agent pitchers, sure Lackey would be nice but I bet that one of Harden or Sheets would probably do just as well with the rotation we already have, we probably need a 6th starter knowing the injury history of Wake. Maybe Padilla or Bedard even (just an idea)?
I don’t know a whole lot about Chapman but I heard the Cuban’s messed up his delivery or something to that affect.
Holliday over Bay IMHO.
I don’t know who is available but we could also use a new relief arm as well.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
by Rogue Nine on Nov 10, 2009 11:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
No to Scutaro
He’s aging, coming off a career year, and since he’s a Type A, will cost us a draft pick. Stay away from him unless he comes cheap AND the Blue Jays stupidly don’t offer him arbitration.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Nov 10, 2009 11:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Scutaro is exactly the type of contract Theo is likely to avoid.
I highly doubt they go after him in anything other than an unusual bargain situation.
I also think they’ll skirt around Chapman. Theo hasn’t been as “on fire” with this guy as he was with Contreras. He’ll be in on him to say he was in on him, and then pass on investing a huge amount on an overrated prospect.
Harden again seems like the oddest choice. More likely Sheets or Duch, I’d guess.
by USG on Nov 10, 2009 11:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
there's some good thoughts there
I’d absolutely love Harden, my favorite out there, otherwise Sheets or Duscherer is probably best. Lackey wants too much money and very publicly hates pitching at fenway, plus is worse than any of those guys healthy.
I absolutely do not think that a 34 year old shortstop with one good year is worth even a draft pick, never mind a 3 year deal. I’ll be very disappointed if we end up with him.
Bay is fair for 4/$60 million, if that won’t do it, maybe a player option for a 5th year/$10 million. Not worth more. I’d go much further on Holliday, maybe 6/$110 (with less in 2010 than future years because there’s not a ton coming off this year). Probably more than that and I’d rather give platooning low risk guys rather than committing a giant chunk of payroll for years to come.
Chapman I think Theo is trying to drive up the price on. It just doesn’t look like we have the payroll flexibility to commit $20 million extra for a question mark. But then, I don’t have access to the financial records. I’m guessing that Theo would like to try to save a lot for next year, when there’s a fantastic FA class. I won’t be disappointed if we sign him, sounds like he has a ton of potential (100 mph lefty starter can’t be bad, as long as we can coach some control into him, though I’m sure he won’t be ready in 2010 except maybe a couple of spot starts later on), just surprised.
by wolf9309 on Nov 10, 2009 11:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Bay, Scutaro, Harden, Chapman, and Wake --
Yes (though I think I’d prefer the idea someone else had of trading for Jayson Werth if the Phillies), hell no, yes, yes, and hell yes.
Bay is barely worth $15M/year and he’s going to ask for more, so if we could swing a reasonable deal for a younger but similar player with less notoriety, we should do it. Scutaro has had exactly one good year; I’d rather take our chances on Lowrie. Harden and Wake could probably split the fifth spot in the rotation very effectively. And Chapman is a good long-term investment if he can learn better feel and control of his pitches.
by RSNexile on Nov 10, 2009 12:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Why do they call them free agents when they're expensive as hell?
1. Holliday > Bay. Obviously, though, I’d be good with Bay and I’d rather him than an overpaid Holliday.
2. No to Scutaro. He’s getting up there (he’s almost as old as me!!) and this year seems more anamoly than rule. He reaks of “failed shortstop solution”.
3. I’d be willing to roll the dice on Harden. None of these reclamation projects have really worked thus far (although I would argue that Penny did until injuries forced him from #5 starter to #3 starter), but there is upside potential there for sure.
4. No to Chapman, aka Cuban Ricky Vaughn. I’ve heard good word about his velocity…little else. Being a hard-throwing lefty is useless if you can’t do much with it.
5. ♥ Wake.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
by Bloggy on Nov 10, 2009 1:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
You are saying you do not want Rick Vaughn on this tea?
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Nov 10, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Only if you could promise he would turn into Act III Rick Vaughn.
DO YOU PROMISE???
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
by Bloggy on Nov 10, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I PROMISE!
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Nov 10, 2009 2:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Aroldis Chapman
I’m surprised people are so low on Chapman. Isn’t he Cuba’s best starting pitcher? That’s got to count for something right?
by Schulz on Nov 11, 2009 7:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm the best pitcher in my house right now.
Does that count for something? I realize it’s a bigger sample size for a small country, but he’s only good in comparison to the pitchers he just left. Aside from that, he’s a cannon with minimal control and not much else beside velocity. And he’s got some weird mechanics.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 13, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cuba is good at baseball.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Nov 13, 2009 11:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, of course.
But they don’t have a ton of good pitchers.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 14, 2009 12:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't he good in the WBC?
I realize it’s a very small sample size, but a mediocre pitcher can’t shut down the best hitters in baseball as a fluke, even for a few games.
by Schulz on Nov 14, 2009 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Netherlands.
"Hating the New York Yankees is as American as apple pie, unwed mothers and cheating on your income tax." -- Mike Royko
by sox-inda-south on Nov 14, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This.
And the best hitters get spread over a bunch of different countries. He still has issues with mechanics and secondary stuff.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 14, 2009 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what about...
Red Sox maybe signing Tejada? I don’t think scutaro is the answer for us as SS. I don’t think Tejada is long term either. But this would give Jed Lowrie more time to devolope, or another year of free agency.
I would not mind getting Holliday if he’s not WAYYY overpaid.
~SHaFF!~
The Little Sports Blog That Could:
http://www.thelittlesportsblog.blogspot.com/
by SHaFF87 on Nov 12, 2009 12:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
did I miss...
JJ Hardy? What’s going on with him?
~SHaFF!~
by SHaFF87 on Nov 12, 2009 11:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Minnesota got him
He’s officially a Twin
by wolf9309 on Nov 13, 2009 9:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure what good a 3B would do us.
Because that’s the most he could play at this point.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 13, 2009 10:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
every time someone mentions Tejada as a ss solution
I shudder a little bit.
by wolf9309 on Nov 13, 2009 10:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
why?
.313 BA
14 HR
86 RBI
199 Hits
83 runs
That wouldn’t be an upgrade? I said Tejada isn’t the long term solution, but if there isn’t a long term solution available to us, he would be a good solution for the short term until the long term SS comes along.
~SHaFF!~
by SHaFF87 on Nov 14, 2009 1:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He was nearly 14 runs under average last year defensively.
And has been -5 runs per year on average for his career.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=941&position=SS#fielding
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 14, 2009 2:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
83 runs! 86 rbi! Sign the guy! Quickly!
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Nov 14, 2009 2:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
great batter
for contact. Not overwhelming power, not good baserunner, terrible defense, especially lately. Plus walks a little over half as much as alex gonzalez (and much less than VLAD of all people). I think at this point the red sox have learned that making defensive sacrifices for a good offensive SS is not the right solution for the moment.
by wolf9309 on Nov 14, 2009 10:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I’ll live with an Alex Gonzalez type of player who is mediocre with the bat and good on defense
by Schulz on Nov 14, 2009 12:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As long as he's not going to cost more than a couple million.
No problem with Jed and Gonzo platooning, unless Jed starts pulling away. Then I’m going to have to write a huge rant when Tito refuses to give him more playing time over Gonzo.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 14, 2009 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think terry will have a problem with playing Lowrie when he’s hot. It’s not like he’s overly loyal to Gonzalez like he was with Tek, among others.
by Schulz on Nov 14, 2009 7:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if Tito favored Tek...
It is that before Victor Martinez came to the Sox, Tito didn’t have many options at catcher.
My guess after the 2010 season, I wouldn’t be surprise if the Sox try for Mauer, put Victor at first and move Youk to third. If there is a chance that Mauer won’t sign, or the Twinkies think they will lose him to another team via Free Agency, the Sox will probably offer a couple prospects to rent him for a third of the season.
For shortstop, I wouldn’t be surprise that Tito ask Theo to pick up Alex Gonzalez, because his defense was the bright spot for a wacky 2006 season, including the second Boston Massacre.
If anyone that Tito has shown kid gloves to, is Papi.
by superferret on Nov 14, 2009 7:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I think this will be Victor’s only year as the Sox full-time catcher. Though my guess is that we let him walk.
In terms of Papi, its a good thing Tito stuck with him. He turned it around and put together a good few months of baseball.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Nov 14, 2009 7:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gonzo has lost a lot of his range with an injury though.
He’s not quite the same defender as before. I just fear that Tito will be unwilling to realize this, and keep Gonzo in just because of what he’s done in the past, and not for what he is now.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 14, 2009 8:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
looked more solid than anyone else out there this year
which is admittedly a small sample size for someone like Jed, but Gonzalez can still field very ,very well.
How do you guys feel about Omar Vizquel? I think he’d be a great, very cheap backup to Jed is Gonzalez won’t sign cheap enough/doesn’t want to be a backup
by wolf9309 on Nov 14, 2009 9:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't be a bad option. Depends on the price though.
I’m just going off UZR, which says that his range has dropped enough that he’s lost roughly half a win of value. Green had good range, but had issues with learning to make judgments about the throws. Jed had issues getting out on the field, and Woodward was Woodward.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 14, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
true
definitely not as good as he was originally, but still a great fielder with a very good idea of how to field the position.
For Omar, he made just $1mm last year and said he’s looking for a similar situation this year with a contending team. At 42, I can’t imagine his price going up really. Still a great fielder, somehow, I probably wouldn’t want him out there every day but I think he sounds like a great idea as a backup.
as a side note, I’ll never understand how woodward even made it to AAA, never mind the majors. Does he have anything going for him???
by wolf9309 on Nov 14, 2009 9:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hell, sign Omar and then use that as leverage against Gonzo.
This is fun to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Woodward
3 homers in one game is a small phenomenon, but I’d guess it’s his ability to play almost every position.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 14, 2009 10:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like Jed...
I hope he is the long term solution.
But signing Tejada for a short contract until Jed does finally step up, or until we find a long term solution, would be much better than signing a guy like Scutaro to a long term deal.
Once again this is all assuming they wouldn’t resign gonzo.
~SHaFF!~
by SHaFF87 on Nov 15, 2009 1:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not disagreeing with that.
Because the latter option is probably the worst move Theo could make. We could bring back Julio for the rest of his contract, and it’d be a better move (although that’d mean we aren’t paying for another team’s player anymore, so it’s not just skill). There are better options than Tejada, and for a lot less than he’d probably ask for.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 15, 2009 1:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
people baffle me
when they say they think we should sign Scutaro. A 34 year old SS with one good year (not amazing, but good) is not worth a 3 year contract and a draft pick. Just not in any way.
by wolf9309 on Nov 15, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
unless...
we can work out some kind of package to get Halladay and Scutaro for like a 2 yr deal…
I just have a hard time believing he will ever have another year like he did this year. But if he continued to play like he did, he would be a great addition. His defense was very good as well.
I just can’t justify it.
~SHaFF!~
by SHaFF87 on Nov 15, 2009 4:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Halladay is under the Blue Jays’ control, and Scutaro is a free agent. The two don’t really have anything to do with eachother. Getting Scutaro on our team requires nothing more than a check. To get Halladay we have to make a trade with the Jays. There’s no package that gets us both.
by Schulz on Nov 15, 2009 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yes i realize...
obviously we wouldn’t have to trade for him, but if we could trade and get Halladay, and sign Scutaro, that would be a nice “package” to add.
~SHaFF!~
by SHaFF87 on Nov 15, 2009 7:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I do not want Scutaro. Unless he is much, much cheaper than anyone thinks.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Nov 15, 2009 8:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No matter how cheap he is
He’ll cost two picks because he’s a Type-A FA.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 15, 2009 8:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Making him...
…a bad package.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
by Bloggy on Nov 15, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think its only one pick.
The team that loses the FA gets a pick from the signing team and a compensatory sandwich pick that does not come from the signing team.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Nov 15, 2009 10:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
An ugly group of FA
A definite no on Scutaro. The Sox aren’t going to give a player his age 3-years. He is versatile, though.
While I wouldn’t mind the Sox keeping Bay, I don’t think he’s worth 4 years/$60 million. $15 million a year is way above his value.
I’m not sure Harden is worth $7 million. His K-rate is great, but he hasn’t averaged even 6 IP/GS in the last two years. $7 million is a lot to pay for 140 or so innings by a 4.35 FIP pitcher. Carl Pavano was much better than Harden last year. Pavano had a 4.00 FIP and threw 199.1 IP. Pavano may be cheaper, and I’d want my #5 to eat innings. A rotation that has Harden, Dice-K, and Buchholz will need lots of help from the pen.
I’m happy Wake is back. I just wish Tek would learn how to throw a knuckleball to increase his value to the club.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 10, 2009 1:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
not sure Tek needs to learn to catch a knuckleball
since Martinez seems able to do it.
I’m guessing, assuming Varitek will be playing, that he will become Dice-K’s exclusive catcher- honestly Wake is probably the pitcher I think it’s most important to have as many strong bats in the lineup as possible so I’d rather have Martinez catching him. Either that, or Varitek may just play against occasional lefties, but I feel like pitchers tend to prefer the regularity of having the same guy catch them all the time.
by wolf9309 on Nov 10, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I said throw a knuckleball
In order to reinvent himself because he can no longer catch or hit.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 10, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So we should trade him to the Cardinals
They can turn him into an outfielder.
by RSNexile on Nov 10, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He wouldn't have to learn anyways.
He did it perfectly fine his first few seasons – it just wasn’t practical for him to be exhausted from Timmeh’s starts while catching the rest of the rotation.
I’ve heard Beckett is more likely Tek’s BFF.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 13, 2009 10:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, judging by WAR, Bay is worth just over $15M
His value was $15.7M this season.
Of course, I’m on record as saying that using WAR and total payroll to compute a player’s worth is a recipe for inflating players’ values because an awful lot of players are horribly overpaid. And I doubt Bay will still be “worth” $15.7M in the fourth year of his contract.
by RSNexile on Nov 10, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But he is over 30 ...
And was only “worth” $13.5 million combined for 2007 and 2008. He may even be “worth” $15 million next year. But after 2010 it’s doubtful that Bay will be a good value at $15 million per year.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 10, 2009 3:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As I said...
…I think determining a player’s value by WAR and total salary is foolish precisely because so many players are overpaid. I tend to think Youk is a lot more valuable than Bay — less power, better OBP, vastly superior defensive value, and much more flexible for the lineup — but nobody would give him $15M/year if he were a free agent this year.
I’d bet Bay will put up similar numbers in 2010 as he had this year, but there’s no way he plays up to the terms of his new contract over its lifetime. That’s why I’d favor exploring a trade for someone like Werth, as I indicated above. Mike Cameron is also a possibility. But if we don’t get Werth or Cameron, we have to get either Holliday or Bay or suffer a severe dropoff with Hermida. Frankly, none of them seem like great options long-term.
by RSNexile on Nov 10, 2009 7:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Youk would almost certainly get $15M per year if he were a free agent. He has been worth 5.5 WAR for the last two years. He is generally considered one of the best 1B in the league.
Jayson Werth is a great target, but I doubt he is available. The phillies are a very good team and intend to stay that way. Also Werth is only paid $7M next season which is a great bargain. I don’t know why they would trade him or what kind of package they would demand.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Nov 10, 2009 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There's some arguments about value of WAR not being linear...
Which would make the first two wins or so worth a lot less than say, the 5th or 6th. Of course, then Grienke and Lincecum would be worth the same as several oil tycoons.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 13, 2009 10:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
say no to Pavano,,
Some of Pavano’s game last year were pitched well by him, others were very ugly blowouts. He is a wishy washy .500 w-l career pitcher. His ERA this year is 5.10 and his career ERA is 4.44.
The Sox was very close in making one of the worst signing in franchise history when they try to sign Pavano for more money than the Yanks were offering him.
Thinking of signing Pavano to a contract with the Sox should be a crime, let alone doing it. There are better options.
by superferret on Nov 10, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pavano wasn't worth 4 years/$40 million because he was hurt
Last year, he was healthy and threw almost 200 innings (199.1 IP). He had a decent K-rate, an awsome BB-rate, and a good FIP (4.00). His tRA in Minnesota was very good. He might be worth the risk for one-year. Overall, Pavano had a better FIP and tRA than Harden last year.
Harden is never healthy, doesn’t go deep in games, and may cost $7 million or more. Pavano was better than Harden last year.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 10, 2009 5:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pavano lied to the MFY...
Not that I am against turmoil in the MFY organization, but one of his injuries was from something off field, a car accident, if I remember correctly, and he didn’t tell the MFY organization. He caused alot of tension with the clubhouse..
Just look at some of the games, in June he had a 6-0 win against the lesser Sox, and his next start it was a 9-0 blowout loss against the Royals. Pavano can be good, and he can also be absolutely awful.
I think the Sox should plug their fifth starter from Pawtucket, when Wake can’t make his starts. How about Doubront?
The debate shouldn’t be about Harden v. Pavano, but what is the best pitcher to fill in the slot. I don’t think either are that great, but Pavano would be a huge mistake. I don’t think Sox fans would tolerate his 0-4 start, as he had in 2009
by superferret on Nov 10, 2009 10:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Doubront? Seriously? This team needs another pitcher, if not two. The rotation right now would be Beckett, Lester, Buch, Dice and Wake. Personally, I don’t want to go into the season relying on Wake or Dice.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Nov 10, 2009 11:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Neurosis shouldn't use to set up a 25 man roster...
It would nice to have 6 starting pitchers, but at what expense? bullpen? utility (given there will be injury time for a position player during the season, a bat in the lineup?
I will withhold judgement on Daisuke until Spring Training, but I think he can perform at an AL East level, and he still has his array of pitches to work with. As long as he comes to spring training in shape, mentally and physically.
I just threw out a name, and I think it is better to go with a young hungry pitcher than a mediocre starting pitcher, one of them known for his surly behavior. I phrase as a question, not a command..
by superferret on Nov 11, 2009 12:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Remember when we had “too much pitching” and traded away Bronson Arroyo? We struggled with pitching depth all season. This year we had seven pitchers heading into the regular season and still needed to bring Paul Byrd in mid-season. Felix Doubrant might be fine, and we probably have other guys to spot start for us (Tazawa, Bowden, etc.), but I would rather start the season with 5 pitchers who have had success in the majors (I’m not including Wake because I don’t think he’ll be healthy for the start of the season).
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Nov 11, 2009 12:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, I don’t think its neurotic to think a 45 year old coming off back surgery should not be relied on.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Nov 11, 2009 12:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Your anxiety also included Daisuke...
Wake may have some sort degeneration of his fibrous rings in his other disc. I don’t know. The good thing is that the only pitch to cause Wakefield strain is his change up, and he may tweak his back from fielding. One reason he is still around is that his pitches put less strain on his back and shoulder than the Dontrelle Willis of the world.
Anyway, why pay a mediocre pitcher $7-8 million to cover for the starts that Wake misses?
by superferret on Nov 11, 2009 1:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dice-K pitched 59 innings last year at a FIP of 5.09 in 12 starts. Less than 5 innings per start. So yeah, I have anxiety about him.
Pitching depth is damn important. And we can afford it, as long as we aren’t handing out multi-year deals.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Nov 11, 2009 2:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah but
when he came back off of rehab and in shape, he was phenomenal. The guy is a hard worker, that’s how he got where he is- if he comes into spring training anything less than top shape, I’ll be shocked. He screwed up last year and I think he’s way to proud to do it again.
That said, I do think we need to bring in a 6th pitcher, someone recovering from injury who can maybe start on the DL for a bit and come in when necessary, or trade off working from the bullpen with Wake. I don’t think anyone I’ve seen in Pawtucket is ready to the point where I would like to see them in for a good chunk of the season if someone gets hurt. If Bowden has a year in AAA like Buchholz did last year, then around the deadline we could talk about trading someone to give him a chance to come up, but for now, safer is better.
by wolf9309 on Nov 11, 2009 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Trot Nixon did the same thing to the Red Sox
I’m not a huge Pavano fan. I just think he may be inexpensive, and he’s more the type of pitcher they need—someone who can eat innings. I don’t like the idea of paying around $7 million for 140 innings of Harden. I also don’t like the idea of having two pitchers who don’t average 6 IP per start—Harden and Dice-K—in the same rotation. Right now, the Sox have no MLB-ready pitchers in their system.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 10, 2009 11:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Trot was injured, but nothing like Pavano...
I think Theo would had been fired if Pavano signed with the Sox and turned out as much as a nightmare as he was for the Yankees…
It is better just ignore looking at Pavano.
by superferret on Nov 11, 2009 12:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Trot failed to disclose an injury before signing a contract with the Sox
Theo would not have been fired if Pavano had signed and been a bust with the Sox. All GMs make bad trades and signings.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 11, 2009 12:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Matt Clement says hello.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Nov 11, 2009 12:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 11, 2009 12:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Clement gave one good year...
Clement wasn’t a bad signing for the time he spent before he had to go for major reconstruction surgery and also being nailed in the noggin by a line drive. Compare to Pavano’s stay with the Yankees, Clement was a triple crown winner. It was a three year contract, if I remember correctly.
The Sox FO seemed to enamored with starting pitchers with a high K ratio, and Theo wanted Clement in the 2004 Nomah trade, but decided that a better defense would help Lowe
The Pavano deal was up there with the Mo Vaughn contract with the Mets, it was an unmitigated disaster. The Sox barely miss signing Pavano in 2005, even though they offered more money to Pavano than the Yankees.
by superferret on Nov 11, 2009 1:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Pavano contract was incredibly bad. That’s true. But he was good this year. He pitched 200 innings with a FIP of 4.00. I’m not sure what he would cost, but I doubt it is much considering his past. I’d be willing to give the guy a chance.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Nov 11, 2009 2:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pavano can pitch well.
He also pitched absolutely awful this year. I think as much as Coors Field has to be factored in for overall stats, the Twinkies’ Roach Motel aka the Metrodome has to factor in for pitching.
Pavano is just lucky that he becomes a free agent during a mediocre starting pitcher off season. He’ll land somewhere, hopefully not at Fenway with his 5+ ERA
by superferret on Nov 11, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's what FIP and tRA are supposed to do
Remove the fielders and field from the equation.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 13, 2009 10:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There are somethings can't be quantified
Like the Roach Motel’s white dome, crappy batter’s eye, the noise, the turf. It may or may not help Surly Pavano’s stats, but it helps him win games against visiting teams. Ditto for some of Tigers’ mistakes this season at the Twinkies’ Roach Motel home..
Pavano is a mediocre pitcher, and I am being nice. Might as well go for Bronson Arroyo.
by superferret on Nov 14, 2009 7:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I get it. You hate Pavano.
But your comparison with Bronson Arroyo is way off base. Pavano is a better pitcher—and, he’ll likely be much cheaper in terms of money and players.
Arroyo made $9.5 million last year. He is due to make $11 million in 2010, with an option for another $11 million the following year ($2 million buyout). Since Arroyo isn’t that good, he’ll be bought out. That means he costs $13 million for next year. Any team that gives up players and takes on Arroyo’s contract is stupid.
Pavano made $1.5 million last year. He’ll likely get a raise as a FA. My guess is he’ll make between $2.5 and $6 million. He isn’t a Type-A FA, so he is very cost-efficient in terms of money and players.
Let’s compare Arroyo and Pavano last year:
Arroyo – 4.78 FIP 5.56 tRA 5.19 K/9 2.66 BB/9 1.8 WAR
Pavano – 4.00 FIP 4.48 tRA 6.64 K/9 1.76 BB/9 3.7 WAR
The two pitchers aren’t even close. Pavano is MUCH better than Arroyo.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 14, 2009 8:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yup.
And Arroyo’s conventional stats might lead someone to overpay for him (15 wins, 3.84 ERA). Pavano should be an absolute bargain comparatively.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Nov 14, 2009 8:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Holy crap, he got 15 wins?
Keeping that as an example for why WINZ is horrible.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 14, 2009 8:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Got'em.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 14, 2009 8:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Um, first I was joking about signing Arroyo..
Both are mediocre pitchers, and paying them one cent would be too much.
Second, this is about maybe getting a sixth pitcher to cover for Wake if his back acts up?. Why in the world would a GM in his or hopefully one of these days, her mind would sign Pavano or Arroyo for 4-5th pitcher or for an AAAA team, a 1st or 2nd starter?
One stat I like of Arroyo over Pavano’s is WHIP. I am far from signing either numbskulls.
I think the money spent for either Pavano or Arroyo is better off for player development at the AA level. Both guys are just silly putty to fill the cracks.
by superferret on Nov 14, 2009 11:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pavano was worth 3.7 WAR last year
Only two pitchers on the Sox last year were better by WAR: Beckett and Lester.
AJ Burnett was a 3.1 WAR pitcher for the MFY. John Lackey, who is looking for a big payday, was only slightly better than Pavano by WAR (3.9).
In fact, aside from his stint in NY, Pavano has been a decent MLB pitcher. Pavano was hurt when he played for the MFY. He only made 26 starts over four seasons. This year, Pavano was one of the best pitching bargains in baseball.
As for WHIP, it doesn’t tell you much. It’s just hits + walks divded by innings pitched. By WHIP, a HR is the same as a single or a walk. Incidentally, Arroyo’s WHIP was low (for him) because his BABIP was low. Pavano’s BABIP was higher—and the 0.10 difference in the two pitchers’ WHIPs is pretty insignificant.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 15, 2009 12:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So you are willing to pay Carl Pavano $16.5 million
for his 2009 performance? given that how’s much is WAR rating translates to in dollars? So you are willing to give Pavano a $16.5 million contract for 2010, or a 3-4 year $45 million deal?
I don’t hate Carl Pavano, I just feel he is an overrated crappy pitcher.
Tell me if the Twinkies sign him, if they are going to pay him $16.5 million a year..
by superferret on Nov 15, 2009 1:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If I was confident that he could put up 3.7 WAR next year, I would be willing to pay him $16.5M. But the guy came back from years of injuries, so it could be fluke.
Average major league pitchers (or mediocre, in your words) are very, very valuable in this league. They are routinely paid $8-12M. If we could get a mediocre pitcher for a good price ($3M for a year), then we should do it.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Nov 15, 2009 1:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fangraphs' scale is open to debate.
For one, it’s probably over-inflated by bad contracts. The scale is supposed to tell you how much those WAR were worth based on the average amount spent per WAR overall.
And it’s a huge mistake to assume 1 WAR is worth the same to each club. In fact, there’s a lot of misconceptions about WAR, and there will be a link in today’s filter about it.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 15, 2009 1:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So how much is Pavano's 2009 worth in your eyes??
How much should Pavano get in 2010? how many years should he get for a contract? Will he get close to his 2009 WAR stat?
by superferret on Nov 15, 2009 3:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on what you mean.
I’d say probably about $10 million, without adjusting for which team he’s providing value to. For 2010, the Sox would probably offer less than that, somewhere around $5-7, because he could regress and wouldn’t be pitching a full season, likely.
Problem is that most other teams in the market for his services would offer more because he’d be a full-time starter for them. Only way we could compete with that is to offer more years, probably 3-4. Considering that he’s 33, I’d avoid that contract (34 seems to be the age of death for most pitchers).
He’ll probably end up getting around 1year/$10 million from a team needing a mid-rotation pitcher. If he wants a ring, he could always go back to the MFY, so there’s not much chance we could sign him.
And WAR’s a counting stat based on rate stats, so it depends on how much he pitches. For the Sox, it’d drop (less time, better competition). For most other teams looking at him, it’d probably decline a little; he produced similarly before joining the MFY, so it’s not like he had a career year.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 15, 2009 3:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Have you read anything I wrote?
No, I’m not willing to pay Pavano $16.5 million. Few pitchers are worth that money. The MFY way overpaid AJ Burnett. What I have said is Pavano may be a good pitcher to sign on a cheap, 1-year contract.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 15, 2009 9:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I read what you wrote..
I also add that the MFY overpaid for Pavano, and the Sox were going to give him more than the MFY were going to offer.
He was cheap because he was such a disaster as a MFY, besides being a surly teammate.
So, a guy who had one or two decent year in WAR stats, has Tommy John surgery, is getting up there in his playing years, is worth let’s say 3-4 year contract for $10 million a year?
by superferret on Nov 15, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not at all.
I was thinking he would get a Brad Penny-like deal: 1 year at $5M. That’s all. You claimed earlier that “paying him one-penny would be too much.” You are wrong. He is an okay pitcher that might be a good signing at the right price. But no, not for 3 for 4 years.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Nov 15, 2009 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 15, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pavano is not worth a penny..
Did he pitch well at Fenway? yes he didn’t pitch badly with his start. He is not worth roller coaster ride.
by superferret on Nov 15, 2009 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
superferret - what the MFY paid is irrelevant
Pavano is a decent pitcher, who may take a cheap 1-year contract. He was good last year, and goes deeper in games than Harden. You can never have too much pitching.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 15, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree that you can never have too much pitching...
However, even the Sox have a finite amount of resources. I don’t think giving $5-7 million to a 6th starting pitcher, who is to plug the cracks is the way to go.
I wouldn’t say Pavano was good last year. He had some good games, and some absolutely awful games. He also seemed to be very hittable… unless the Tigers were stealing signs as the Twinkies were doing last year..
by superferret on Nov 15, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He basically returned to his production levels pre-MFY this season.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 15, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He also seemed to be very hittable… unless the Tigers were stealing signs as the Twinkies were doing last year..
He only had one bad start v. Detroit last year. On September 30th, his last of 6 starts against the Tigers, Pavano allowed 7 ER in 4.2 IP. Here are the other 5 starts:
May 1st – (W) 7.1 IP 5 H 2 ER 0 BB 3 K
July 11th – (W) 8 IP 7 H 2 ER 0 BB 6 K
August 2nd – (W) 8 IP 6 H 1 ER 1 BB 4 K
August 8th – (W) 7 IP 5 H 0 ER 0 BB 5 K
September 19th – (ND) 7 IP 11 H 2 ER 0 BB 4 K
Totals – 5GS 4-0 37.1 IP 34 H 7 ER 1 BB 22 K. [1.69 ERA].
Yep, teams would be smart to focus on the one loss.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 15, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"Why in the world would a GM in [their right] mind would sign Pavano or Arroyo for 4-5th pitcher?"
Both guys are just silly putty to fill the cracks.
Answered your own question, ferret. We don’t need a great pitcher, just a cheap, decent one to make sure we don’t have to waste prospects if Wake goes down.
There are multiple statistics that prove Pavano pitched very well last season, statistics that aren’t affected by different parks, fielders, or conditions. Even if he regresses, we could have an effective starter for cheap to back up Wake.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 15, 2009 1:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pavano isn't to come cheap
He and his agent are probably looking for a multi year deal..
by superferret on Nov 15, 2009 3:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True.
Lost my train of thought. At this point, I’m just defending Pavano and trying to introduce some better stats; he’s not a good option for the Sox.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 15, 2009 3:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's why there are stats that look only at what the pitcher can control.
tRA looks at the rate at which a pitcher gives up flyballs, liners, and groundballs, and then puts run values on them. It doesn’t care whether or not the fielders can pick the ball up against a dome, get past the noise, or manage not to trip themselves. Oh, and batter’s eye can be quantified; there are stats that measure how often a batter swings at pitches outside of the zone, and you can find the number of swing strikes a pitcher gets pretty easily.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 14, 2009 8:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, it was half a year
He absolutely sucked the next year and didn’t even play in the last year of his contract.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 11, 2009 9:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Matt Clement was great...
…until he took that come-backer to the skull and became Massive Headwound Harry. Can’t blame Theo for that.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
by Bloggy on Nov 11, 2009 8:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why are you using W-L records to evaluate pitchers?
Please don’t get angry this time, just a question.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 13, 2009 10:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure Theo will be able to resist handing out a terrible SS contract…
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Nov 10, 2009 1:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well he still a strike away
from signing another bad SS contract. I think he is using Spinal Tap’s drummer problem as inspiration.
As long as Theo is thinking defensive SS than a Nomah or Jeter, than it should be okay.
I think any Sox shortstop with a big contract is going to have enormous pressure of the Boston media market and comparison to Jeter, which isn’t fair. I have no prob if they can get Alex Gonzalez to a deal.
by superferret on Nov 10, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
SS
People in this thread are making me reconsider on Scutaro. I think the best option for 2010 would be to sign Gonzalez for cheap, and put up with him and Lowrie for another year in hopes of finding something better next year.
by Schulz on Nov 10, 2009 7:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"Put up with... Lowrie"
Exactly what has Lowrie done (do not blame the injury on him) to make him a burden?
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 13, 2009 10:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It does not matter if it is his fault. His wrist injuries make it questionable whether he will ever be at full strength. It is not a guy’s “fault” that he ages, it does not mean that we should not use that fact when evaluating future performance. Unfortunately with jed, he has an injury that has listed for two years and it means the team has to question whether or not they want to rely on him in the majors.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Nov 13, 2009 11:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course.
I’m just taking issue with the vibe I was getting from Schulz’s comment. To me, it sounded like he thought Jed was a less-than-acceptable solution no matter how well he plays.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 14, 2009 12:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If he plays great that's fine
But I’m not ready to hand him most of the playing time at SS. I think he needs more time to develope
by Schulz on Nov 14, 2009 12:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course.
He’s still very young, and it’s hard to develop when you can’t get the consistent playing time because of bad managing. If we get Gonzo to come back for cheap, I’d give them 50/50 time in ST, and then go from there.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 14, 2009 6:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Free Agents and Non-Tenders
Let’s not forget about the non-tender market that could net some great players that are younger and at a more payroll friendly price. Regarding the free agents:
1B – Adrian Gonzalez is everyone’s first choice. If a trade can’t be worked out, I would kick the tires on Branyan, look at Atkins (if non-tendered) or stick with Kotchman (backing up Youkilis).
SS – Scutaro doesn’t make sense unless the Jays don’t offer arbitration. Otherwise I look for a 2 year deal with Jack Wilson or incumbent Alex Gonzalez.
LF – Holliday is my first choice but Bay’s contract may make more sense.
SP – Anyone of the high upside reclamation projects (Sheets, Harden, Bedard, Duc) make sense to me as a #5.
RP – I think they need to bring in another quality arm, whether it’s bringing back Saito or pursuing Putz.
by mg050369 on Nov 10, 2009 8:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Regardless of if they bring Saito back, I think we’re going to need another arm in the bullpen. For SS whether or not the Jays offer arbitration to Scutaro it shouldn’t matter, he’s an older player who hasn’t performed very well before this year. Alex Gonzalex for another year wouldn’t be bad as back up in case Lowrie still has issues, other wise we should be fine.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
by Rogue Nine on Nov 10, 2009 8:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We need another lefty
VARITEK MUST GO
Brandon Webb in 2010
Jason Bay is not WERTH it
by gizmosandy on Nov 10, 2009 8:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Boras just said at the GM meetings
Sox could have had Tex before the MFY….
VARITEK MUST GO
Brandon Webb in 2010
Jason Bay is not WERTH it
by gizmosandy on Nov 10, 2009 8:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Boras said.
Who the fuck believes anything “Boras said”? Boras would say snow was purple if he thought it’d get him an extra 45 cents….
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
by Bloggy on Nov 10, 2009 9:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
You’re giving him way too much credit. He’d say the snow was purple if he thought it’d get him an extra 4 cents.
by RSNexile on Nov 11, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True.
We are in an economic downturn…
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
by Bloggy on Nov 11, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It would be true even if the economy had never been stronger
by RSNexile on Nov 11, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Every time I think of Scott Boras
I think of the Greed murder from Se7en.
My shrink says that that’s not good.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
by Bloggy on Nov 11, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good movie
Just saw it for the first time yesterday.
by Schulz on Nov 11, 2009 7:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure they could have
If they offered him 10 years $220 million right off the bat.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Nov 10, 2009 10:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How could they understand him?
…with all that horseshit crammed down his gullet? Oh, wait, that’s just in my fondest daydreams.
I’m thinking the Sox aren’t in on Holliday and Boras is mad because he’s having a hard time driving his price up…
Rock me, sexy Jesus...
by nuthinboutnuthin on Nov 10, 2009 10:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Holliday dropping the game winning out in the NLDS
is going to have a burning obsession with many GMs, besides the price for Holliday is absurd. I can see the MFY seriously making a run for Holliday, if they see him a better long term investment than signing Judas and Porn Matsui. The MFY are only team at this moment that can afford Holliday’s extortion salary.
by superferret on Nov 10, 2009 10:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Boras seems to be targeting both NY teams
There was a “report” a few weeks back about how “sources close to Holliday” say he would prefer playing in NY, which means the MFY and Mets. At this point I could actually see the Mets testing the Holliday market, but who knows what they’ll offer.
Cards should probably already consider Holliday gone, and besides the Sox and others who can really afford to drop over $100 million on a LFer?
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Nov 10, 2009 11:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yyyyyyyyyyyyyeah
“sources close to Holliday” = Boras
So that he can “show” the Red Sox that he can swing NY bound players toward Boston.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
by Bloggy on Nov 11, 2009 12:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This whole Teixeira thing coming back up now that Holliday is on the market just makes me suspicious
This makes the Conspiracy Theorist in me think Boras is purposefully painting the Sox FO as cheap and are directly to blame for Tex going to the MFY and therefore going on to win the World Series. Now Sox fans are upset with the FO and the only way Theo and co. can make sure this doesn’t happen again is to sign Holliday for a lot of money.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Nov 11, 2009 12:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We shall expose him!!!
Fear OTM, Scotty, fear us.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 13, 2009 10:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who else can afford Holliday?
The Cubs have money problems with a change of ownership, the Dodgers are beyond turmoil, The Phillies need pitching and rather spend their money on Cliff Lee.
I don’t think the Mets will pay for Boras extortion contract this time around, I don’t know what Mets contracts are coming off the book, but they may reduce payroll.
I don’t know if the Sox will even take Boras seriously, after the shit he pulled on the Manny trade and the duplicity on the Teixiera sweepstakes.
by superferret on Nov 11, 2009 12:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No way for the Cubs and Phillies
Money and roster issues for both.
Mets still remain a possibility, but if they sign Holliday instead of getting a better pitcher to put behind Santana they’re not that smart (although that wouldn’t surprise me really).
It’s funny how Holliday’s supposed asking price has changed even in the past few days. At first it was a “Teixeira-like” contract, but now it’s more in line of a “Soriano-like” contract. Who knows what it’ll be in a month. I’m thinking the market for Holliday may not be as palatable as Boras wants so he’s trying to drum up business any way he can, even if it means pitting the Sox FO against Sox fans (conspiracy theorist in me).
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Nov 11, 2009 12:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
amusingly,
there was also a report last week about how sources close to him said he DIDN’T want to play in NY.
Boras is playing all angles.
by wolf9309 on Nov 11, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I'd forgotten about the NLDS...
I bet Boras is seeking an extra $ 3.5MM per year for Holliday based on his ability to catch balls with his penis
Rock me, sexy Jesus...
by nuthinboutnuthin on Nov 11, 2009 12:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
(post error) :-P
I’ll bet that Boras is looking for an extra $ 3.5MM per year based on Holliday’s ability to catch fly balls with his penis. I’m assuming that’s what he means by a “complete player.”
Rock me, sexy Jesus...
by nuthinboutnuthin on Nov 11, 2009 12:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, if a guy can catch a liner with his penis, somebody is going to give him the extra cash.
by RSNexile on Nov 11, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd give him an extra 2.5 mil
…if he could hit a curveball with it.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
by Bloggy on Nov 11, 2009 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As long as Heidi Watney interviews him right before the at bat, he has a chance.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Nov 11, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You see the SNL Weekend Update right after Manny's suspension?
“reported that he was taking fertility drugs. How do we know? That’s not a bat in his hands.”
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 13, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like to remember him for getting picked off first in the World Series
VARITEK MUST GO
Brandon Webb in 2010
Jason Bay is not WERTH it
by gizmosandy on Nov 11, 2009 7:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah Boras ...
The man who compared Oliver Perez to Sandy Koufax.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 10, 2009 11:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Detroit is supposedly shopping Edwin Jackson
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10349688/Sources:-Tigers-looking-to-shed-payroll,-Jackson
He had a great first half, but slowly became unraveled as the season went on. Detroit may worry about him breaking down further next year, but they have slight payroll issues as well. He won’t cost as much as King Felix, but he’s young and under control for a while which means he won’t be cheap. I don’t think I’d make a trade, but it’s another alternative.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Nov 10, 2009 11:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
All I can say...
If the Mariners get a good bat and another good starting pitcher, they could a seriously challenge to win the AL West. They may do it with another good starting pitcher.
by superferret on Nov 11, 2009 12:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the free agent pool seems rather weak this year. My advice would be to wait it out until the trade deadline. When that comes some teams that are not in the race will shop some of their players. If the Rays are not in the race i would bet that they will try to trade Upton. The sox have a good enough team to stay in the race until the deadline….then make a splash
by cnubsbl16 on Nov 11, 2009 10:02 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don't like trading in the division
The Rays would want a lot for Upton because he’s a young, good player, more for us because they would have to play him 18x a year, and we wouldn’t want to give them much for him because we would have to play against whatever we gave them 18x a year.
If it’s someone like Halladay, and the deal is right, I’m all for it, but I don’t think someone like Upton will transform the team enough to be worth it. Plus there’s probably other people that would need him more than us and would be willing to pay.
by wolf9309 on Nov 11, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d prefer to fill our needs now when it will not cost prospects.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Nov 11, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Reds
Word on mlbtr is that the Reds are looking to slash payroll to less than $70 million, they already have around $65 million committed to just 10 players so it looks like they may be dealing. Would it be worth it, and what would it take to say take Harang off of their hands and also in exchange for taking the bad contract throw Joey Votto into the deal as well? This would give us a back of the rotation starter and a very solid 1B that would allow us to move Youk over to third. Votto plays OK defense, his UZR/150 last season was +10.5, this year it was -2.1.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
by Rogue Nine on Nov 11, 2009 11:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
In exchange for what?
What would you have the Sox give the Reds for Harang and Votto?
by RSNexile on Nov 11, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it would still take a lot
Votto’s young and still under control for 4 more years I believe (correct me if I’m wrong). Last year he missed about a month of time due to various things. I think I read depression at one point over the loss of a family member. He still managed to end hot, with a final line of .322/.414/.567 Bill James puts him at a .947 OPS for next year.
He won’t be cheap unless you can take back Harang and a guy like Willy Tavares AND gave up a ton of prospects.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Nov 11, 2009 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Votto is going nowhere
Brandon Phillips could be intriguing if he could play SS. And before someone is a jackass and points out his -76.9 UZR/150 as SS I will add that he has 19 career innings there. He’s been a great defensive player the last few years at 2B, so it’s at least plausible.
by Gnick on Nov 11, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see Phillips moving over
The Reds GM has gone on record as saying he desperately wants a SS. I can’t see him being that worried about it if all he would have to do is move Phillips over.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Nov 11, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Votto is not moving.
He’s young and is already a very good hitter. Also, he has some wierd issues that might not translate very well in Boston.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Nov 11, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Weird issues??
Like what?
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
by Bloggy on Nov 11, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Like depression and shit. I don’t quite remember.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Nov 11, 2009 3:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He missed about 30 games due to depression and anxiety over the death of his father from the year before
He also had some dizziness issues apparently
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Nov 11, 2009 3:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Granderson to CF/ Ells to LF
If the Tigers are shedding payroll, offer the farm for Cabrera
VARITEK MUST GO
Brandon Webb in 2010
Jason Bay is not WERTH it
by gizmosandy on Nov 11, 2009 7:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I love granderson
But that puts us in a serious issue against lefty pitchers with a distinct lack of RH batters with power.
Though Granderson is one of my favorite players at the moment, I would love to have him, but he is terrible against lefties. If we could get righty LF and switch Ells between CF and LF, that would be great.
by wolf9309 on Nov 12, 2009 9:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sheesh. Don't we have the technolgy available to clone Ted Williams yet...?
Then we shift Drew to Left, and have the Splendid Splinter (part II) back in his corner. I mean his head’s just sitting there attracting tuna fish cans and monkey wrenches anyway…
by A2004LoveAffair on Nov 12, 2009 6:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ted played LF.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Nov 12, 2009 6:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice try, though.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
by Bloggy on Nov 13, 2009 8:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sheesh. Don't we have the technology to kick Teddy's kids' asses for doing that to him?
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 13, 2009 10:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Alas, Ted's kid that did this to him...
…is also dead.
And, unfortunately, I’m not the one who deaded him. Bullshit natural causes got to him first…
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
by Bloggy on Nov 14, 2009 6:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
We should have forged a note with their autograph scraps so their heads were cut off. Then we could get Ted some revenge and use the head as bait for fishing.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 14, 2009 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Free Agent Short Stops
This may be a bad comment, but how about Tajeda? I haven’t seen much of him since he went to Huston, but he hit .313, 14 hr, 86 rbi. Those numbers are much better than anything we’ve thrown on the field in awhile. Nothing long term, but no talk about him at all. I’m sick of seeing no production out of the position, and filling the hole with guys like Nick Green. People are also really down on OC, but when he came back to Boston with the A’s last year he tourched us.
by Brian Daubach on Nov 17, 2009 6:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
more of a 3b now
not really effective defensively at short. OC’s defense has also declined a ton.
by wolf9309 on Nov 17, 2009 6:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This
Shortstop is the most important position defensively. You need a solid glove at that position, or he’ll give up a lot more runs than he’ll produce. While Tejada swings a good stick, we are probably better off finding offensive production at other positions like corner outfield and infield, and making sure we have good defense up the middle.
by Schulz on Nov 18, 2009 2:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ooh, let's sign a guy because he was good in one series against us.
He sucked the rest of the year, but he hit OUR pitchers well, so he must be an All-star!!
Also, here’s “no talk about him at all”:
what about…
Red Sox maybe signing Tejada? I don’t think scutaro is the answer for us as SS. I don’t think Tejada is long term either. But this would give Jed Lowrie more time to devolope, or another year of free agency.
Source: scroll up
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 18, 2009 6:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously.
HE’S AN ANIMAL!
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
by Bloggy on Nov 19, 2009 10:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I laughed at my teacher's face when she suggested that we should be respectful while addressing the opposition in an Rogerian argument.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 19, 2009 10:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by 


















