Mariano Rivera: Spitball King?
by Randy Booth on Oct 20, 2009 2:10 PM EDT
in News
52 comments
In news that first broke from our friend Rev at Halos Heaven, it seems as if future Hall of Famer Mariano Rivera used a new pitch last night: a spitball.
Here's the video:
EDIT: Video was taken off the Inter-Web. Dang.
Judge for yourself, Red Sox fans. In my opinion, just by judging how he handles himself (looking around, down at the ball, etc.), I think he spit on the ball. And the question isn't, "so what? Nothing happened in that inning anyway." It is, "how long has the greatest closer in baseball history been throwing a spitball?"
(Oh, and if you didn't already know, the spitball was banned by MLB in the 1920s.)
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Wouldn't someone have noticed long before now
if he regularly threw a spitball? It looked to me like he was just spitting.
by LegendaryTadpole on Oct 20, 2009 2:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah.
Exactly what I was thinking. If he had been doing this for years, wouldn’t he have a slightly more sneaky way of applying the spit? or maybe its a vast MLB conspiracy so the Yankees always win…(channeling Rev)
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Oct 20, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As much as I hate the MFY, I think evreybody is blowin' this thing out of proportion
The guy is class act, he’s been pitching A LOT of games (WS, ALDS, ALCS…) and you think he could escape with that? I don’t think so!!
It’s just medias looking for some controversy!
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
by radiohix on Oct 20, 2009 2:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No evidence
http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/hardball/mlb_no_evidence_rivera_threw_spitter_KUYl75fHTsuAqmMedUNsSP
As said above it’s impossible no one in ALL of is games that no one say him. This is a complete non story blown ut of proportion because people can’t accept the fact a Yankee is great,
by Lolmoarpl0x on Oct 20, 2009 2:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There have been a lot of great Yankees
Everyone on this site can admit that. But it has to be questioned when it looks so blatant…
by Randy Booth on Oct 20, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I am right
This originated at Halos Heaven and those who I am referring to.
Plus it’s ironic that the team who benefited from bad calls against the Red Sox are complaining about lousy umpiring and “spit balls.”
by Lolmoarpl0x on Oct 20, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The New York Post?
Really? Isn’t that like relying on Fox News to tell us whether there were WMD in Iraq?
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Oct 20, 2009 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Something like that, yeah.
Goddamn that DeMarlo Hale.
by Bloggy on Oct 20, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looks bad, man.
I have a hard time believing that with all the umps and all the cameras (including POSTSEASON.TV) that he’d so blatantly hold the ball in front of him an hock a loogie on it…but that’s sure as shit what it looks like.
WTF?
Goddamn that DeMarlo Hale.
by Bloggy on Oct 20, 2009 3:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There really should be an "undecided" option...
Goddamn that DeMarlo Hale.
by Bloggy on Oct 20, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
... Don't vote?
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 20, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't
But I think that an “inconclusive” option is warranted, is all
Goddamn that DeMarlo Hale.
by Bloggy on Oct 20, 2009 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the final option is basically that.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Oct 20, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
Hence my vote.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 20, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He spit
but he didn’t spit on the ball. You can kind of see the spit pass by the ball. The screen shots of “splatter” come from a camera fade to Mike Scioscia’s jacket. Come on, guys, this is not the way a spitball is thrown. You do n’t use spit and you don’t hock a loogie on the ball from long distance in broad daylight! Not surprising where this conspiracy theory started…
by Buzzy on Oct 20, 2009 3:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You nailed it, Sir
Who’s the source? Rev “EAST COAST BIAS-UMPIRING CONSPIRACY” Halofan!
’nuff said!
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
by radiohix on Oct 20, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You'd be surprised, actually
It came from a few others, and Rev just ran with it. Nice try, though.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
by Clutch on Oct 21, 2009 3:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which also isn't to say there's any merit to it.
I was convinced at first, but the subsequent hi-def analysis from some non-MLB’ers seems to be pretty convincing. Just curious, though, conspiracies aside, what would surreptitiously doctoring a ball have to do with blown umpiring calls? And no, as completely and utterly inept as the umpires were tonight—see Tim McClleland’s own admissions in the post-game comments—I don’t believe they conspired against the Halos to bring them down tonight. The Halos did that themselves.
Now, the Nick Green thing on the other hand…;-p
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
by Clutch on Oct 21, 2009 3:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know what the lamest thing of all is-
first-Tim McClleland is the absolute best umpire in all of baseball. He is not Bucknor-who is rutinely voted by players and managers to be the worst ump in baseball. Does he make mistakes? Sure. But your team lost 10-1. Now for the lamest thing-I went over to HH and a sub-theme was “well-you can’t really say that the calls did not change the game because of the final score-since the game is changed continuously on bad calls.” Really? After the Nick Green game I commented the same thing-that the same shitty umpire strongly aided the Angels rally in the 8th by calling 3 balls on pitches right in the box (2 from Bard, one from Ramirez and I have the K-zone data to back it up). These pitches were all just a good as the one Fuentes threw. My comment was derided because stuff that happens in the 8th is not so important (I guess). Another sub-theme-“these bad calls made Kazmir work much harder.” Like…the three blown calls on Lester (an obvious strike 3 to Hunter and 2 bad calls at first by Bucknor) in game 1 of the ALDS? The facts are:
a)Umps (despite this morning’s claims by Rev) are not trying to screw the Angels-they just blow calls (both ways).
b)The Yankees are winning in this series because they have been the better team. How many HRs have they hit off of Angels pitching? 10?
I know you are saying the same thing-but they stuff posted on HH is bordering on crazy (again). I am still strongly pulling for the Angels…
by Buzzy on Oct 21, 2009 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
+1
And rec’d.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Oct 21, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I tried to compare the "mod vibe" between PSA and HH after a loss
Ed Valentine from PSA after game 3 loss:
I know everyone is upset about last night’s loss, and mystified by Joe Girardi’s bullpen management. Me, too.
But, please, if your sole purpose for commenting is to drop an ‘F bomb’ or go off on an obscenity-filled tirade, don’t bother. I have deleted a bunch of those already this morning, and will continue to do so.
If you are going to comment, add something of value to the discussion
Rev Halofan after game 4 loss:
If only the phone records and bank statements of the umpiring crew could be more closely scrutinized prior to Thursday evening
Higher moral standards you say?
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
by radiohix on Oct 21, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
HH is a joke
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Oct 21, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only referees that I ever thought were bought
were the 2002 World Dup referees that gave many, many favorable calls to the South Koreans against Italy during the 2002 World Cup Playoffs. If the South Korean Government are willing to give $700 millions to a dwarf with a pompadour and cuban heels, (Kim Jong-il) to set up a meeting, they are capable of anything.
If anyone is being bought, it is MLB officials supporting instant replay.
Umps get into trouble when they reverse calls, like the Swisher Tag. I think Tori Hunter played a big role in making a commotion in that as McFarland’s doddering. Anyway, the person to bribe is the home plate umpire, so he can give a Nolan Ryan strike zone to one team, and a rookie strike zone to the opposing team.
by superferret on Oct 22, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha!
That guy definitely has a vagina somewhere on his body.
by Solomon96 on Oct 22, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can we NOT follow up a comment about lower moral standards existing on other sites...
With a comment demeaning women? Thanks.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 22, 2009 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
all media sources got it from HH
most say so explicitly. Nice try, though.
by Buzzy on Oct 21, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was "alerted" to the video by a user, IIRC.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 21, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Non story.
I’d be the first to jump on a Yankee if I thought he was cheating. But Mo isn’t a cheater, and if he were, he’d be much better at it than THAT.
by USG on Oct 20, 2009 4:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mariano is not going to spit on the ball....
It is easier to put vaseline on his cap, or some on his glove. He is not going to spit on the ball on the mound during the ALCS. His cutter wobbles mainly right to left, if he is going to throw a spitter, it is get to a nasty break that Santana gets with his slider, that the ball sinks or go out of the strike zone so the hitter will swing.
Whatever gook that a pitcher wants to put on a ball, it is to help with either grip or more of a break.
If any recent pitcher was probably cheating in the playoffs, it was Kenny Rogers against the MFY in 2006 ALDS.
Mariano throws a 95 mph cutter, he is not looking to throw 85 mph sliders and curves as his meal ticket as a closer..
If you want to make a better case, show a video of what the pitch that he threw. If it was high and up cutter, there is no point in trying to doctor the ball.
by superferret on Oct 20, 2009 6:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Spitball pitchers were grandfathered after the ban...
My favorite pitcher who isn’t in the Hall of Fame, but I think should be in it, Urban Shocker, was a spitball pitcher allowed to continue to use it, before he died in 1928.
It is allegedly the pitch that Carl Mays threw at Ray Chapman that killed him in 1920 was a spitball, (the reason why Mays will never be in the Hall of Fame) sometimes the umps had to change the ball because it was brown from all the tobacco juice..
by superferret on Oct 20, 2009 6:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mariano doesn't need gunk to throw his pitch...
If he used gunk, he probably couldn’t control his cutter, and it would be really wild. Each cutter would have a life of its own, because either one side would spin way off, it wouldn’t wobble. Once the substance is on the ball, it takes on different characteristics than a dry ball. Hence it is better to use a spitter at slower speeds…
If Mariano cheated, he would go the emory board route, the roughing up the leather of the ball would get that slight veering.
As much as the video looks incriminating, he isn’t going to spit on the ball in front of the ump and opposing hitter. ("Oh that is okay, Mariano is going to the Hall of Fame anyway, I will give him a mulligan on this spit ball)
The pitchers who are going to throw a spitter, would be those like David Wells, or Paul Byrd, and I am not saying they ever threw on one or for Byrd would throw a spitter, but they need to confuse hitters with their break in their pitches. Ditto with someone like Trevor Hoffman, (once again, I am not implying he threw or throws spitters)
by superferret on Oct 20, 2009 6:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
here is better allegation of a MFY pitcher cheating..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xADMrOjziGs
Didn’t he lose game 3 for the MFY?
by superferret on Oct 20, 2009 6:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Vid's broke, btw.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 20, 2009 7:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not shocking
MLB won’t let such things be on the open web for long.
Goddamn that DeMarlo Hale.
by Bloggy on Oct 20, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 20, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not without their express written consent.
by Branta on Oct 20, 2009 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been hearin' that since I was 6 years old.
Thanks to the Internet, I finally know what it means. ;)
Goddamn that DeMarlo Hale.
by Bloggy on Oct 20, 2009 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I guess it's pretty obvious what it means
I guess I meant more why they bothered to say it.
Goddamn that DeMarlo Hale.
by Bloggy on Oct 20, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-KGmVqN-kA&feature=related
This video is still up.
Either way you slice it Mo picked a pretty stupid time to let one fly.
by adubson on Oct 21, 2009 8:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not really stupid...
I mean, I’ve spit indoors after a summer of baseball – it’s just a reflex that gets built up.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 21, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a Yankee fan --
And, as much as I thought I’d never say this, I love Over the Monster (when compared to that fantasy universe called Halos Heaven). I tip my cap to you guys for running this thread, and for acknowledging the hysterical nature of the imbeciles who started it.
By the way, if you haven’t been keeping up with the ALCS and happen to be in the mood for some good laughs, stop by Halos Heaven.
by Solomon96 on Oct 21, 2009 9:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
and for acknowledging the hysterical nature of the imbeciles who started "it"
..and by “it” I mean the Mariano spitter theory.
by Solomon96 on Oct 21, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gracias.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 21, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a Yankees fan
and I hate the Sox with a passion, but I have to say that during this ALCS, I have learned that you guys have a hell of a lot more class than the Angels fans over at Halos Heaven. I NEVER thought I would say that. Those guys at Halos Heaven are the biggest bunch of crybabies on the planet.
“Oh my god, A-Rod’s ball wouldn’t have been out in any other Stadium”
“The umps hate us! there’s a conspiracy”
“This series is fixed”
“Mariano Rivera is a spitball cheater”
“The announcers hate us”
You should see what they write during the game threads there. It’s comical. As much as I hate the Sox, and as annoying as you are when you win, at least you guys can accept it when you lose, instead of making these comical excuses. I tip my hat to you (even though I’m not wearing a hat right now).
A part of me still wishes the Sox were in this series. It would have been much more interesting. Everybody loves Yankees-Red Sox. That would have been great.
by nyyrocks29 on Oct 21, 2009 10:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sadly, most people hate MFY-Red Sox. It would have been great though, because...
to borrow a phrase from Bloggy, we would have “powerbomb[ed] you through the bingo table.” :)
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 21, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am still pissed off..
over the fight between Fisk and Pinella in 1976, that led to an all out team brawl which led to the Spaceman’s left shoulder being separated.
The Yankees are scum. They deserve no mercy.
by superferret on Oct 22, 2009 4:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shibboleths....
A-Rod hit one of the homers 440 feet in to Left Field, Anaheim Stadium Maybe at the old Polo Grounds with the wind blowing in, it won’t go out. A-Rod is many things, but there is a reason why he was called a five tool player, and have been playing MLB since he was 19.
Umps are just umps, McClellan wasn’t so bad as the infield Ump who blew the pick off of Swisher. Tory Hunter’s performance for some of had gotten him nominated for an Emmy for best acting in a daytime program. I am never a fan of Kazmir, not because he has pitch well against the Sox, but because he has a bad WHIP, and has been way too erratic to be feel trust in his every start.
The Series would had been 2-2 if Fuentes walked A-Rod in Game 2 of ALCS. I think the way to defeat A-Rod is the same way to defeat Pujols, pitch low and away then pitch high and inside to get a pop up, it is incredibly dangerous, but a frustrated A-Rod is the way to defeat him. The risk is that the ball could be heading to Bronxville.
Mariano couldn’t control a 95 mph spitter with movement at the end of the pitch, The pitch would be in the backstop, and movement would be at the beginning. Spitters use their thumb as the release point. Mariano is many things, including a first ballot Hall of Famer as is Pedro Martinez, but his signature pitch has no need for foreign substance… it is about finger tension and release point.
Now for some reality…
The MFY are the scum of the earth, surrender and atone for your sins. If you can’t atone, at least fix Right Field, so it is no longer Coors Park east, and skewered hitting stats.
by superferret on Oct 22, 2009 4:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is an interesting connundrum for Sox fans
For this one, leastways.
You want the Yankees to lose real bad…but you want Angels fans to lose real bad, too. And at THE SAME TIME.
I find myself cheering for the Angels, and then reading HH-er comments and being glad the dumb bastards lost.
Frig. What a mess.
Goddamn that DeMarlo Hale.
by Bloggy on Oct 22, 2009 7:54 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I want the Los Angeles de Anaheim to win
I just want Halo Heaven to change their diaper, and graduated to training pants. They can win another game, but the MFY have way too many tools to use to beat the Angels for a series win. In some ways the MFY bottom of their line up is scarier than the top of line up, with exception of A-Rod’s psychotic ways.
I would like to see Petey pitch Game 2 of the World Series at Yankee Stadium. The Phillies bullpen has to shut down the Yankees in close game if they want to beat the MFY.
If the Angels want to win, Figgins has to hit and get on base. If the Angels want to play their version of smallball/baseball, they need to control the game. i don’t see them doing this, how the Yankees are hitting right now.
by superferret on Oct 22, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For an idea as to what to do with Angels fans, check out my profile.
"It's only fun if you win, Skip." -- Me.
by Paul O'Neill on Oct 22, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you are just a garden variety internet pervert.
The 2009 Pregame Picks Winner and Iron Man of Halos Heaven.com
by 44FAN on Oct 22, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh...kay...
Going with 44FAN here.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 22, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A person doesn't really need to accuse the Yankees of foul play
A person doesn’t really need to accuse the Yankees of foul play (all their wins come from cheating) without accusations of a Mariano Rivera spitball. The LA Angels (now out of the playoffs) had been making the accusations, along with others who disdain the Evil Empire. However – and it’s painful to defend the Yankees – a Rivera spitball doesn’t make a lot of sense. The numbers speak for themselves, and he doesn’t NEED to cheat – he is legitimately skilled. A spitball, for those that don’t know is a pitch where the ball has spit or other put on it to change its trajectory, and it’s illegal, but it isn’t worth a cash advance to investigate the possibility of a Rivera spitball.
by Garrett C on Oct 31, 2009 1:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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