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Around SBN: Guest Blogger: Juco All-American Answers Five Questions

Mariano Rivera: Spitball King?

In news that first broke from our friend Rev at Halos Heaven, it seems as if future Hall of Famer Mariano Rivera used a new pitch last night: a spitball.

Here's the video:

EDIT: Video was taken off the Inter-Web. Dang.

Judge for yourself, Red Sox fans. In my opinion, just by judging how he handles himself (looking around, down at the ball, etc.), I think he spit on the ball. And the question isn't, "so what? Nothing happened in that inning anyway." It is, "how long has the greatest closer in baseball history been throwing a spitball?"

(Oh, and if you didn't already know, the spitball was banned by MLB in the 1920s.)

Poll
Is Mariano Rivera a cheater-pants?!
Yes! Dude's a spitter!
207 votes
No! He totally missed the ball!
322 votes
Let's go Angels! Woo!
103 votes

632 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 52 comments |

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Wouldn't someone have noticed long before now

if he regularly threw a spitball? It looked to me like he was just spitting.

by LegendaryTadpole on Oct 20, 2009 2:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah.

Exactly what I was thinking. If he had been doing this for years, wouldn’t he have a slightly more sneaky way of applying the spit? or maybe its a vast MLB conspiracy so the Yankees always win…(channeling Rev)

"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw

by BTLove on Oct 20, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As much as I hate the MFY, I think evreybody is blowin' this thing out of proportion

The guy is class act, he’s been pitching A LOT of games (WS, ALDS, ALCS…) and you think he could escape with that? I don’t think so!!
It’s just medias looking for some controversy!

"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur

by radiohix on Oct 20, 2009 2:22 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

No evidence

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/hardball/mlb_no_evidence_rivera_threw_spitter_KUYl75fHTsuAqmMedUNsSP

As said above it’s impossible no one in ALL of is games that no one say him. This is a complete non story blown ut of proportion because people can’t accept the fact a Yankee is great,

by Lolmoarpl0x on Oct 20, 2009 2:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

There have been a lot of great Yankees

Everyone on this site can admit that. But it has to be questioned when it looks so blatant…

by Randy Booth on Oct 20, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I am right

This originated at Halos Heaven and those who I am referring to.

Plus it’s ironic that the team who benefited from bad calls against the Red Sox are complaining about lousy umpiring and “spit balls.”

by Lolmoarpl0x on Oct 20, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The New York Post?

Really? Isn’t that like relying on Fox News to tell us whether there were WMD in Iraq?

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Oct 20, 2009 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Something like that, yeah.

Goddamn that DeMarlo Hale.

by Bloggy on Oct 20, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Looks bad, man.

I have a hard time believing that with all the umps and all the cameras (including POSTSEASON.TV) that he’d so blatantly hold the ball in front of him an hock a loogie on it…but that’s sure as shit what it looks like.

WTF?

Goddamn that DeMarlo Hale.

by Bloggy on Oct 20, 2009 3:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

... Don't vote?

@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 20, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't

But I think that an “inconclusive” option is warranted, is all

Goddamn that DeMarlo Hale.

by Bloggy on Oct 20, 2009 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the final option is basically that.

"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw

by BTLove on Oct 20, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep.

Hence my vote.

@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 20, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He spit

but he didn’t spit on the ball. You can kind of see the spit pass by the ball. The screen shots of “splatter” come from a camera fade to Mike Scioscia’s jacket. Come on, guys, this is not the way a spitball is thrown. You do n’t use spit and you don’t hock a loogie on the ball from long distance in broad daylight! Not surprising where this conspiracy theory started…

by Buzzy on Oct 20, 2009 3:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

You nailed it, Sir

Who’s the source? Rev “EAST COAST BIAS-UMPIRING CONSPIRACY” Halofan!
’nuff said!

"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur

by radiohix on Oct 20, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You'd be surprised, actually

It came from a few others, and Rev just ran with it. Nice try, though.

RIP Nick Adenhart.

"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5

by Clutch on Oct 21, 2009 3:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which also isn't to say there's any merit to it.

I was convinced at first, but the subsequent hi-def analysis from some non-MLB’ers seems to be pretty convincing. Just curious, though, conspiracies aside, what would surreptitiously doctoring a ball have to do with blown umpiring calls? And no, as completely and utterly inept as the umpires were tonight—see Tim McClleland’s own admissions in the post-game comments—I don’t believe they conspired against the Halos to bring them down tonight. The Halos did that themselves.

Now, the Nick Green thing on the other hand…;-p

RIP Nick Adenhart.

"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5

by Clutch on Oct 21, 2009 3:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

And rec’d.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Oct 21, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

HH is a joke

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Oct 21, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The only referees that I ever thought were bought

were the 2002 World Dup referees that gave many, many favorable calls to the South Koreans against Italy during the 2002 World Cup Playoffs. If the South Korean Government are willing to give $700 millions to a dwarf with a pompadour and cuban heels, (Kim Jong-il) to set up a meeting, they are capable of anything.

If anyone is being bought, it is MLB officials supporting instant replay.

Umps get into trouble when they reverse calls, like the Swisher Tag. I think Tori Hunter played a big role in making a commotion in that as McFarland’s doddering. Anyway, the person to bribe is the home plate umpire, so he can give a Nolan Ryan strike zone to one team, and a rookie strike zone to the opposing team.

by superferret on Oct 22, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ha!

That guy definitely has a vagina somewhere on his body.

by Solomon96 on Oct 22, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can we NOT follow up a comment about lower moral standards existing on other sites...

With a comment demeaning women? Thanks.

@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 22, 2009 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

all media sources got it from HH

most say so explicitly. Nice try, though.

by Buzzy on Oct 21, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was "alerted" to the video by a user, IIRC.

@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 21, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Non story.

I’d be the first to jump on a Yankee if I thought he was cheating. But Mo isn’t a cheater, and if he were, he’d be much better at it than THAT.

by USG on Oct 20, 2009 4:09 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Mariano is not going to spit on the ball....

 It is easier to put vaseline on his cap, or some on his glove. He is not going to spit on the ball on the mound during the ALCS. His cutter wobbles mainly right to left, if he is going to throw a spitter, it is get to a nasty break that Santana gets with his slider, that the ball sinks or go out of the strike zone so the hitter will swing.

  Whatever gook that a pitcher wants to put on a ball, it is to help with either grip or more of a break.

  If any recent pitcher was probably cheating in the playoffs, it was Kenny Rogers against the MFY in 2006 ALDS.

  Mariano throws a 95 mph cutter, he is not looking to throw 85 mph sliders and curves as his meal ticket as a closer..

  If you want to make a better case, show a video of what the pitch that he threw. If it was high and up cutter, there is no point in trying to doctor the ball.

by superferret on Oct 20, 2009 6:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Spitball pitchers were grandfathered after the ban...

My favorite pitcher who isn’t in the Hall of Fame, but I think should be in it, Urban Shocker, was a spitball pitcher allowed to continue to use it, before he died in 1928.

It is allegedly the pitch that Carl Mays threw at Ray Chapman that killed him in 1920 was a spitball, (the reason why Mays will never be in the Hall of Fame) sometimes the umps had to change the ball because it was brown from all the tobacco juice..

by superferret on Oct 20, 2009 6:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Mariano doesn't need gunk to throw his pitch...

  If he used gunk, he probably couldn’t control his cutter, and it would be really wild. Each cutter would have a life of its own, because either one side would spin way off, it wouldn’t wobble. Once the substance is on the ball, it takes on different characteristics than a dry ball. Hence it is better to use a spitter at slower speeds…

  If Mariano cheated, he would go the emory board route, the roughing up the leather of the ball would get that slight veering.

  As much as the video looks incriminating, he isn’t going to spit on the ball in front of the ump and opposing hitter. ("Oh that is okay, Mariano is going to the Hall of Fame anyway, I will give him a mulligan on this spit ball)

The pitchers who are going to throw a spitter, would be those like David Wells, or Paul Byrd, and I am not saying they ever threw on one or for Byrd would throw a spitter, but they need to confuse hitters with their break in their pitches. Ditto with someone like Trevor Hoffman, (once again, I am not implying he threw or throws spitters)

by superferret on Oct 20, 2009 6:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Vid's broke, btw.

@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 20, 2009 7:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Not shocking

MLB won’t let such things be on the open web for long.

Goddamn that DeMarlo Hale.

by Bloggy on Oct 20, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep.

@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 20, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've been hearin' that since I was 6 years old.

Thanks to the Internet, I finally know what it means. ;)

Goddamn that DeMarlo Hale.

by Bloggy on Oct 20, 2009 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I guess it's pretty obvious what it means

I guess I meant more why they bothered to say it.

Goddamn that DeMarlo Hale.

by Bloggy on Oct 20, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-KGmVqN-kA&feature=related

This video is still up.

Either way you slice it Mo picked a pretty stupid time to let one fly.

by adubson on Oct 21, 2009 8:47 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Not really stupid...

I mean, I’ve spit indoors after a summer of baseball – it’s just a reflex that gets built up.

@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 21, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm a Yankee fan --

And, as much as I thought I’d never say this, I love Over the Monster (when compared to that fantasy universe called Halos Heaven). I tip my cap to you guys for running this thread, and for acknowledging the hysterical nature of the imbeciles who started it.

By the way, if you haven’t been keeping up with the ALCS and happen to be in the mood for some good laughs, stop by Halos Heaven.

by Solomon96 on Oct 21, 2009 9:29 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Gracias.

@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 21, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm a Yankees fan

and I hate the Sox with a passion, but I have to say that during this ALCS, I have learned that you guys have a hell of a lot more class than the Angels fans over at Halos Heaven. I NEVER thought I would say that. Those guys at Halos Heaven are the biggest bunch of crybabies on the planet.

“Oh my god, A-Rod’s ball wouldn’t have been out in any other Stadium”
“The umps hate us! there’s a conspiracy”
“This series is fixed”
“Mariano Rivera is a spitball cheater”
“The announcers hate us”

You should see what they write during the game threads there. It’s comical. As much as I hate the Sox, and as annoying as you are when you win, at least you guys can accept it when you lose, instead of making these comical excuses. I tip my hat to you (even though I’m not wearing a hat right now).

A part of me still wishes the Sox were in this series. It would have been much more interesting. Everybody loves Yankees-Red Sox. That would have been great.

by nyyrocks29 on Oct 21, 2009 10:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Sadly, most people hate MFY-Red Sox. It would have been great though, because...

to borrow a phrase from Bloggy, we would have “powerbomb[ed] you through the bingo table.” :)

@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 21, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am still pissed off..

over the fight between Fisk and Pinella in 1976, that led to an all out team brawl which led to the Spaceman’s left shoulder being separated.

 The Yankees are scum. They deserve no mercy.

by superferret on Oct 22, 2009 4:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Shibboleths....

A-Rod hit one of the homers 440 feet in to Left Field, Anaheim Stadium Maybe at the old Polo Grounds with the wind blowing in, it won’t go out. A-Rod is many things, but there is a reason why he was called a five tool player, and have been playing MLB since he was 19.

Umps are just umps, McClellan wasn’t so bad as the infield Ump who blew the pick off of Swisher. Tory Hunter’s performance for some of had gotten him nominated for an Emmy for best acting in a daytime program. I am never a fan of Kazmir, not because he has pitch well against the Sox, but because he has a bad WHIP, and has been way too erratic to be feel trust in his every start.

The Series would had been 2-2 if Fuentes walked A-Rod in Game 2 of ALCS. I think the way to defeat A-Rod is the same way to defeat Pujols, pitch low and away then pitch high and inside to get a pop up, it is incredibly dangerous, but a frustrated A-Rod is the way to defeat him. The risk is that the ball could be heading to Bronxville.

Mariano couldn’t control a 95 mph spitter with movement at the end of the pitch, The pitch would be in the backstop, and movement would be at the beginning. Spitters use their thumb as the release point. Mariano is many things, including a first ballot Hall of Famer as is Pedro Martinez, but his signature pitch has no need for foreign substance… it is about finger tension and release point.

Now for some reality…
The MFY are the scum of the earth, surrender and atone for your sins. If you can’t atone, at least fix Right Field, so it is no longer Coors Park east, and skewered hitting stats.

by superferret on Oct 22, 2009 4:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is an interesting connundrum for Sox fans

For this one, leastways.

You want the Yankees to lose real bad…but you want Angels fans to lose real bad, too. And at THE SAME TIME.

I find myself cheering for the Angels, and then reading HH-er comments and being glad the dumb bastards lost.

Frig. What a mess.

Goddamn that DeMarlo Hale.

by Bloggy on Oct 22, 2009 7:54 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I want the Los Angeles de Anaheim to win

I just want Halo Heaven to change their diaper, and graduated to training pants. They can win another game, but the MFY have way too many tools to use to beat the Angels for a series win. In some ways the MFY bottom of their line up is scarier than the top of line up, with exception of A-Rod’s psychotic ways.

  I would like to see Petey pitch Game 2 of the World Series at Yankee Stadium. The Phillies bullpen has to shut down the Yankees in close game if they want to beat the MFY.

 If the Angels want to win, Figgins has to hit and get on base. If the Angels want to play their version of smallball/baseball, they need to control the game. i don’t see them doing this, how the Yankees are hitting right now.

by superferret on Oct 22, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you are just a garden variety internet pervert.

The 2009 Pregame Picks Winner and Iron Man of Halos Heaven.com

by 44FAN on Oct 22, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh...kay...

Going with 44FAN here.

@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 22, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A person doesn't really need to accuse the Yankees of foul play

A person doesn’t really need to accuse the Yankees of foul play (all their wins come from cheating) without accusations of a Mariano Rivera spitball. The LA Angels (now out of the playoffs) had been making the accusations, along with others who disdain the Evil Empire. However – and it’s painful to defend the Yankees – a Rivera spitball doesn’t make a lot of sense. The numbers speak for themselves, and he doesn’t NEED to cheat – he is legitimately skilled. A spitball, for those that don’t know is a pitch where the ball has spit or other put on it to change its trajectory, and it’s illegal, but it isn’t worth a cash advance to investigate the possibility of a Rivera spitball.

by Garrett C on Oct 31, 2009 1:05 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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