Looking at Payroll
by BTLove on Oct 15, 2009 7:45 PM EDT
73 comments
By now we all know that this team had weaknesses and I'm sure everyone out there has some solution in mind that will bring us our next World Series. But before we all go crazy talking about free agent targets for the offseason let's remember that there is always at least one thing getting in the way of any free agent signing or trade: money. So, let's take a look the payroll situation so we'll have an idea how much money Theo will be able toss around this winter.
Cot's Contracts has a great spreadsheet of our current 2010-2014 payroll obligations and complete contract data for every Sox player (for those who do not know, Cot's is the best source for anything contract-related.)
The Sox already have almost $109M committed for next year, assuming Tek stays on for $3M, Wake stays for $4M and we do not pick up Saito's ($5.5M) or Alex Gonzalez's ($6M) options. Unfortunately, that number does include the $9M+ that we'll be paying the great Julio Lugo.
However it does not include the raises we'll be handing out in arbitration cases, so let's take a look at those guys:
Papelbon ($6.25M)+$2.75M: Despite his most recent failure, Papelbon just finished a great season and will be in line for a raise. Fangraphs usually uses a 40/60/80 guideline when making predictions in arbitration cases, meaning a guy earns 40% of his value in the first year of arbitration and so on. This would mean he is due to make about $9M next year, so a raise of $2.75M.
Okajima: +$3M: He has been solid for three straight years so he will get a raise. $3M seems about right.
RamRam: +$2.5M: After two great years in the majors, he'll also see a raise.
MDC: +$1.5M: His last 2 months probably cost him $1M.
Casey Kotchman ($2.88M)+$.5M : He lost his starting role this season, but we rarely see guys lose money in arbitration, so we should expect at least a small raise. I'm not certain he'll be around anyway, so I'll just leave him out for now.
These are all rough estimates, but we can expect to spend right around $10M keeping these guys. That puts us at $119M for 15 guys. Throw in the minimum contracts of Jacoby Ellsbury, Jed Lowrie and Clay Buccholz and we are at $120M for 18 players. That is a lot of money and certainly does not give us much payroll flexibility for this coming season, but the good news is that they have most positions covered. Barring any drastic moves, we basically need a starting left-fielder, a bench, a back end of the bullpen and hopefully a SS. (This also does not take into account the team's plans for Michael Bowden and Junichi Tazawa, who I would think we will use as rotational depth and start them in AAA.)
The other thing everyone should note is that there is a lot of money coming off the books in 2011. We only have $50M committed for that season so there is flexibility going into the future. Given that, I could see the Sox taking a temporary bump in payroll up to $140-150M, but after signing a LFer, we would basically be there. So for everyone out there thinking about big moves, it might be a little hard given the current payroll situation. We should expect one of Jason Bay/Matt Holliday then some cheap depth moves. Given our roster construction, we just do not have room to be doing much else. (Though a trade could change everything.)
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Nice post!
Rec’d
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
by radiohix on Oct 15, 2009 7:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I like younger teams to do better than older ones
on average. I think younger gets better and stronger as the long seasons wears on while older teams go the other way, i.e. The Boston Red Sox this past year! As a general rule, I would favor jettisoning the older players as much as possible and using their fat contracts to recruit, buy, or steal younger talent. That is my overall philosophical Rx for what ails this team!
by NG on Oct 15, 2009 8:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The young NYY say hello
But yes I would prefer this team to get younger but most of our young talent are a year or 2 away from the show!
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
by radiohix on Oct 15, 2009 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 2004 and 2007 Sox teams were older than this one
This year, the average age of Sox’ position players was 30-years old. The average age of the pitchers was 29.8 years old.
In 2004, the average age of Sox’ hitters was 30.4-years old. The pitchers were even older: 32.5 years-old. The average age of the 2007 Sox teams’ was 30.1 years-old for position players and 31.1 years-old for the pitchers. So, it seems, the Sox are getting younger.
You can’t just jjettison older players without paying them. “Recruiting” young talent is called a draft, and the Sox have been pretty good in that department. It’s also very hard to “steal” young talent in a trade these days, as many teams want young players in return.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Oct 16, 2009 7:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't look at averages in this category, but
at individuals. Try to jettison the guys over 35 for sure, and maybe younger for STARTING pitchers.
by NG on Oct 16, 2009 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe younger for starting pitchers???
Beckett and Dice-K are 29, Lester and Buchholz are 25: This a young and very good rotation from 1 to 4.
And what the hell “look at individuals not avg in this category”? NG, I’m begging you: Please think before you post…please.
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
by radiohix on Oct 16, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not saying to get rid of these specific younger pitchers that you cited.
I assure you I have thought this out to a fair degree, but no it is not an exact science. Baseball is mostly a game for players under 35 and starting pitchers under about 33. It is a long grueling season, and the young Florida Marlin type teams of the past are the best to strive for. However, once you have one, you cannot stay complacent as the youngsters get older.
If I were a baseball G.M., I would go with constant infusion of youth youth youth to keep a dynasty going on and on and on! There are reasons why the Sox can’t do that dynasty thing too well, and for me it is closely related to their ? loyalty or whatever for staying with older players too long that are failing.
by NG on Oct 16, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Most teams try to get younger
Younger players are usually cheaper. And, it’s true that most players decline as they get older. But that doesn’t mean that all older players are worse than younger players.
Let’s look at this year’s MFY. They won 103 games and are considered the best team in baseball. Here’s what their roster looks like:
They have 37-year old catcher coming off surgery who had an OPS of .885. Their 35-year old SS had an .871 OPS. Their 35-year old LF had an .854 OPS and tied his single season high in HR. They had a 35-year old DH coming off knee surgery. He hit 28 HR and had an OPS of .876. Andy Pettitte and Mariano Rivera, 37-years old and 39-years old respectively, both had very good seasons.
The 1998-2000 MFY weren’t exactly young teams, even though they had some young players in key positions.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Oct 16, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Agree
That’s I replied to NG that the MFY says hello.
Oh BTW Drugs, the last days I was amused (Ok maybe saddened) to find out that WAR wise, the MFY were due to…..103 wins!
"That was a lot of fun… You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." Jeff Francoeur
by radiohix on Oct 16, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But the yankees are unique
in their ability to buy players for maybe a short time at their peaks. Not many other teams can or want to do this. Raising your own and locking them in is the way to go, but when they get to that age that the Yankees want them for zillions of bucks, fine with me if they let them go to die in NY or whatever.
I am just being more of a realist here for most teams including the Sox. I just do not believe using the Yankees in any anecdotal argument works too well for any other team unless and unitl the financial environment in MLB changes big time! In summary, unless you can afford to buy many big names every year for BIG bucks, going younger and keeping younger is the way to succeed for most franchises, IMO.
by NG on Oct 16, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You aren't really being a realist
As a rule, nobody believes that aging players are better than players in their prime years. However, not all old players are bad and should be jettisoned due to age and not all younger options are better. Almost every winning team has a mixture of older veteran and younger players. The Sox are no different. Theo is always looking for ways to make his team younger, cheaper, and more athletic.
Let’s compare the 2004, 2007, and 2009 Red Sox by age and position:
Year – 2004 — 2007 — 2009
C – Tek (32) – Tek (35) – VMart (30)
1B – Millar (32) – Youk (28) – Youk (30)
2B – Bellhorn (29) – Pedroia (23) – Pedroia (25)
SS – OC (29) – Lugo (31) – Gonzo (32)
3B – Mueller (33) – Lowell (33) – Lowell (35)
LF – Manny (32) – Manny (35) – Bay (30)
CF – Damon (30) – Crisp (27) – Ellsbury (25)
RF – Nixon (30) – Drew (31) – Drew (33)
DH – Ortiz (28) – Ortiz (31) – Ortiz (33)
SP – Schilling (37) – Beckett (27) – Lester (25)
SP – Martinez (32) – Schilling (40) – Beckett (29)
SP – Lowe (31) – Matsuzaka (26) – Buchholz (25)
SP – Wakefield (37) – Wakefield (40) – Matsuzaka (28)
SP – Arroyo (27) – Lester (23) – Wakefield (42)
CL – Foulke (31) – Papelbon (26) – Papelbon (28)
RP – Timlin (38) – Okajima (31) – Wagner (37)
RP – Embree (34) – Timlin (41) – Bard (24)
RP – Leskanic (36) – MDC (25) – RamRam (27)
RP – Myers (35) – Lopez (29) – Okajima (33)
As you can see, Theo has made the team younger—especially the pitching staff. Also, the 2004 and 2007 Sox, despite their age, were championship teams.
You aren’t a realist, NG. You are an alarmist. The Sox are getting younger. You can’t just cut a player once they get to a certain age. The reason why teams like the Marlins are younger is not because younger is better. It’s because almost always younger is cheaper. Arbitration and free agency raise the cost of players.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Oct 16, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mixed message?
I feel your chart does not really confirm what you say, but it does show how aging teams don’t tend to repeat too readily, which was my point. If the Sox are getting younger, and if they can break the paradigm of keeping derelicts like Tek, Wakefield, now Papi, and maybe a few others, then maybe we can get some really exciting and durable results for a few years . It never allows complacency, which was also my point in continuing to look for youth! That’s the key.
by NG on Oct 16, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK...
your chart does not really confirm what you say, but it does show how aging teams don’t tend to repeat too readily,
Well, who has? I mean, MFY in the 90s, but the current FO has gotten us 2 in 4 years, and several trips to the playoffs, so I don’t see what’s to second-guess.
Goddamn that DeMarlo Hale.
by Bloggy on Oct 16, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 17, 2009 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are you talking about?
Contending teams don’t just jettison players without having a ready replacement. Since winning in 2004, the Sox have been getting younger—and have managed to stay competitive.
… and if they can break the paradigm of keeping derelicts like Tek, Wakefield, now Papi, and maybe a few others, then maybe we can get some really exciting and durable results for a few years
“Exciting and durable results”? Let’s see:
2003 – 95-67 (Lost ALCS)
2004 – 98-64 (Won WS)
2005 – 95-67 (Lost ALDS)
2006 – 86-76
2007 – 96-66 (Won WS)
2008 – 95-67 (Lost ALCS)
2009 – 95-67 (Lost ALDS)
The Sox have been in the playoffs six of seven years. In that time, they have averaged 94.3 wins per year. They have been in the ALCS four times and won two championships. The last seven years has been the Sox’ most successful period in the modern era. Don’t you find that exciting? If you don’t, you’re not a Sox fan. Based on the team’s results over the last seven years, it’s safe to say that the Sox’ FO know what they’re doing.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Oct 16, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Compared to the Sox of my youth, you are absolutely
correct. If this team was like the Yawkey era fanchise, I would not be here at all, so a certain fair-weather level baseline has definitely been achieved by this team over the last 6 years or so.
I guess I want more, and the signs of the last two years, and especially of this year, were of a relatively weak team (especially on the road) , and one that is not improving. I want that to change, and it won’t with the likes of has beens as mentioned above! There is even a post out there tonight above maybe bringing Wakefield back next year as a starter AFTER HIS SURGERY! That is the epitome of this unrealistic belief in the fountain of youth around here! Give it up folks. There might be a better chance in ressurrecting Cy Young and having him pitch next year than to use Wakefield as a strater anymore!
by NG on Oct 16, 2009 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you'd rather bring him back without surgery?
He’s going to have a healthier back than he’s had in years, if understand the situation properly.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 17, 2009 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let him go!
At 44 , he cannot play consistent baseball so why bother. It is okay to realize that aging hurts one’s ability to play your best, and it is okay to make changes away from guys who once were decent but have fallen prey to the inevitable. Yur young, but you will find out these things in time.
by NG on Oct 18, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At 43, he was an all-star before he got hurt
He’s still good for half a season, and half a season of the sort he can give us at $4M for the year is a bargain. If the surgery is successful, he can come back in the second half and be the most effective fifth/sixth starter in the major leagues.
But by all means, just let him go because he’ll be 44.
by RSNexile on Oct 18, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He will take up a slot
that could be better filled by a player with a future for the team. His injury potential and just the unpredictable nature of any Wakefield outing even when healthy does not build for the future good of this team. Remember the idea is to put together a team that is good enough to go all the way, not one just barely able to survive to win a wildcard and lose badly in the first round!
Sometimes I think we have different missions around here for this team!
by NG on Oct 18, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We were good enough to go all the way.
If you think the playoffs settle the debate about who’s the best team, you are sorely mistaken, my friend.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 18, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean the 1987 Minnesota Twins weren't the best team in baseball?
I’m shocked, shocked I say!
Didn’t we just prove this rather definitively recently, that the best team doesn’t always win the World Series?
by RSNexile on Oct 18, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought that was common knowledge.
Which is why I wasn’t all that upset when Lackey was complaining that we beat them last year – they may well have been the better team, but we played better for a few games, so we won the privilege of advancing.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 18, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Common knowledge isn't so common
In fact, the best team frequently doesn’t win, and that ought to be expected in a game where the very best teams only win 60% of all their games. In the postseason, they’re playing other teams that won 55% or more of their games, so any postseason series is anyone’s game.
by RSNexile on Oct 18, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We definitely have different missions
Yours seems to be whining about everything; for the rest of us, it’s having a team that will contend for the title every year.
You need to have more than five guys who can give you good starts. You can’t count on Beckett or Dice-K to stay healthy all year. You don’t know how Buchholz will hold up when asked to throw 200 innings, especially when this year was the first time he threw over 140 innings — you might be willing to sacrifice his career if it makes it just a little more likely the Sox win the Series next year, but the rest of us aren’t and Theo isn’t either. You don’t know what sort of freak occurrence might happen to knock out Lester — like that line drive in his penultimate start in the regular season, which could have caused a serious injury.
Right now, we have four starters we can count on, assuming Dice-K gets his act together. We obviously need to sign a free agent or trade for someone in the offseason to give us a five-man rotation because Bowden just isn’t ready, but Wake would give us a reliable sixth man in the second half of the season, when the other pitchers are most likely to break down. And in the meanwhile, since he’ll be on the 60 day DL, he won’t take up a slot.
by RSNexile on Oct 18, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless he's ready to go by the end of ST.
And even then, he will have to have pitched several times for Theo and Tito to be comfortable with “rushing” him back.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 18, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He won't be ready then
Don’t get me wrong — he’ll go if they ask him to. But he’s not really going to be ready to throw more than a couple dozen pitches a week at that point. I’m sure he could be ready to join the rotation full time by June after spending much of May in the minors, but if the Sox can get by with another one year, low risk/high reward free agent until the all-star break, I’d prefer to let Wake wait as long as possible to come back, with the break the late end of the time frame.
by RSNexile on Oct 18, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I prefer to use the word
“critically question” everything rather than whining because for one thing, whining denotes a negative purpose. I have a positive purpose in my critical questioning believe it or not!
by NG on Oct 18, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's more of criticism.
But it’s not constructive, which is why we have problems with it. If anything, it’s destructive.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 18, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can only say that if the team is great,
and achieves the goals you want for them. They aren’t and they have not in my eyes for the last 2 years so I criticise where they are weak. You on the other hand must be satisfied.
by NG on Oct 18, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not satisfied, but I know they gave something close to their best effort...
And that things didn’t go their way. I think they could have handled a few situations better (Jed’s injury, how long they kept Lugo, etc.), but I trust Theo&Co. to keep us in the upper tier of teams every year.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 18, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Back surgery is not an easy operation..
First any invasive surgery has its risks. I am more in the camp that surgery should be the last option. Second, Wake has a herniated disc. That could be a sign that he is getting older, and losing collagen in all his discs, and he could have other disc problems in the lumbar region.
Third, if anyone here who has back surgery, or a herniated disc, it can absolutely painful.. it is a great way to become a prescription drug/oxycontin addict, because most painkillers don’t do the job, pre or post surgery.
If Wake was a pitcher who’s speciality was throwing high heat, he would probably has to retire. If any pitch that is going to effect his back and his perfomance is his change up, which is needs some effort..
His back isn’t going to be better, because he may have other problems with his discs and spine. Much like A-Rod and Lowell’s hips aren’t going to better after their serious hip injuries…
I think the Sox FO has to have contingency plans in place if Wake is having problems during spring training, and they should brace themselves for a best case scenario that he pitches for a half of a season.
by superferret on Oct 19, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True...
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 19, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because so many young teams have repeated?
It may have escaped your notice, but nobody has repeated since 2000. Before the MFY of 1998-2000, the Blue Jays did it in 1992-1993. Before them, the last team to repeat was the MFY of 1977-1978.
Nobody tends to repeat too readily. The best you can hope for is to have a shot every year, and Theo has gotten us to the postseason six times in seven years with two World Series wins, and the one year he missed was because of a series of injuries that no team could have possibly overcome.
by RSNexile on Oct 18, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Rays would had been a contender in 2009
If their starting pitching had a repeated performance of 2008. Garza actually wasn’t that bad, but Shields was bad, and there was way too much pressure on Price. Kazmir went back to his wild ways.
I think having a solid starting formation at least give some consistency, and will put the team in top of contention. The Mariners had some of the pieces of being a top team if they just had someone to compliment King Felix.
I think the Rangers can get another good starting pitcher, who doesn’t throw at batters’ heads and get a couple DUIs, they should be in contention, (reference to Vicente Padilla)
by superferret on Oct 19, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hrr?
But the yankees are unique
in their ability to buy players for maybe a short time at their peaks.
For a short time? They Yankees, at least for the names I think of off the top of my head, tend to pay big bucks…and MULTI-YEAR. Teix, Giambi, A-Rod, Damon, Burnett, CC. I’m not necessarily calling you out as wrong, but who are you thinking of when you say “short time at their peak”?
Goddamn that DeMarlo Hale.
by Bloggy on Oct 16, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Expensive when signed
and expensive while any good, but then gone when they crash. That is my point and that is not a plan that most teams can use.
by NG on Oct 16, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good and expensive when signed
But whether or not they hold their value over the course of those contracts is another matter, Giambi being exhibit A.
They had monster payrolls all of the 2000s, but no World Series rings to show for them. They looked poised right now, whether or not they get one is another matter. That said, who knows how well these monster contracts will perform over the next few years, CC and Burnett especially.
Goddamn that DeMarlo Hale.
by Bloggy on Oct 16, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I always feel that some of the obscene contracts
are to pay for past performance rather than future performance. Sabathia has earn his pay for this year, because his IP numbers, and can be an anchor for the staff… However, I feel it is better to put the money into AA and AAA farm teams, to develop a retinue of pitchers.
My example is Johan Santana. It took lots of TLC from the Twinkies to developed him after he came from the Astros farm system. They made him work on his change up to no end.
I think one of key points of the Henry ownership of the Sox has been some of the homegrown pitching talent and more emphasis on pitching, compare to the 9-7 wins in the past with the likes of Rice in the line up, or thinking signing Jack Clark would be the panacea to a winning season.
by superferret on Oct 19, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO WAAAAYYYY!
"It would have been a nice idea if you could run through the postseason without losing. I don't think it's realistic."
--Terry Francona
by BoldandBrash on Oct 15, 2009 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+++++++++++++11111111111111111111111
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Oct 16, 2009 7:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll keep the trend going
WHYYYYYYYY?
by Randy Booth on Oct 16, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MENDOZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!
Goddamn that DeMarlo Hale.
by Bloggy on Oct 16, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
YOOOOOUUUUUUUUU AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRREEEEEEEE AAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNN IIIIIIIGGGGGGGNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOORRRRRRRAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNTTTTTTTTTTT FFFFFFFFFOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLL.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 17, 2009 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You speak whale?
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
by SoxDevil on Oct 26, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He made those humpback noises in that Star Trek flick...
Goddamn that DeMarlo Hale.
by Bloggy on Oct 26, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To answer your question with a picture:
Best. Kids’. Movie. Ever.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 26, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stats wise...
No, Drew is worth alot. His defense is top rated, and there hasn’t been a problem, in one of the most difficult outfield spots in MLB. I just would like to see more RBI than he usually does annually, no matter his line up in batting order. I don’t think he is worth his contract, but he is worth alot.
by superferret on Oct 19, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
RBIs = dependent on situation.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 19, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice post, BT
Rec’d
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Oct 16, 2009 7:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: the "Getting Younger Argument" with NG above (didn't know who to respond to.
The funny thing is that NG is entirely right. For teams to sustain success, they have to get younger and cheaper. But that is exactly what the Sox have done over the last five years! We have brought up 3 position players who are starters, an entire bullpen and multiple starting pitchers. This team has already done exactly what NG is proposing and I’m sure they will continue to do the same in the future.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Oct 16, 2009 7:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
NG just can't handle that it's impossible to have a team full of 28-year-old dynamos.
by USG on Oct 17, 2009 3:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Oct 17, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is in a video game
But that’s the problem — NG seems to think real life is a video game, at least where baseball is concerned.
by RSNexile on Oct 18, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's not entirely right.
Because what he’s suggesting is to basically mass produce test tube baseball players, so that we never run out of late-20’s stars.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 17, 2009 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be awesome.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Oct 18, 2009 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
More creepy than awesome.
Just play video games if you want that experience.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 19, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Getting Younger
I dont necessarily think a team full of young talent is the right way to go. I hate the Yankees but if you look at them they have much more veterans than they do young talent. The way to success is really just make money, baseball as much as no one wants to admit it is a business. If you make alot of money like these large market teams do you will be able to spend that money on talent.
by cnubsbl16 on Oct 21, 2009 10:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Teams that spend a lot of money aren't always successful
Last year, the three top payroll teams—MFY, Mets, and Tigers—all missed the playoffs. Let’s look at every year since 2006:
2006 – In the AL, the MFY (#1 payroll), Twins (19th), Tigers (14th), and A’s (21st) made the playoffs. The NL playoff teams were the Mets (5th), Cards (11th), Padres (17th), and Dodgers (6th).
2007 - The MFY (1), Red Sox (2), Angels (4), and Indians (23) made the playoffs in the AL. In the NL, the Phillies (13), Cubs (8), D-Backs (25), and Rockies (24) made the post-season.
2008 – The playoff teams were the Rays (29), Red Sox (4), White Sox (5), and Angels (6th) in the AL; and Phillies (12), Cubs (8), Brewers (15), and Dodgers (7) in the NL.
2009 – MFY (1), Red Sox (4), Twins (24), and Angels (6) made the playoffs from the AL. The Phillies (7), Cards (17), Dodgers (9), and Rockies (18) made the playoffs from the NL.
Just spending money is no guarantee of success. You have to spend money wisely. The MFY do not operate like other baseball teams. They simply have more money and, therefore, are not a model that can (or should) be emulated by other teams. This year, the MFY outspent the number 2 payroll team (the Mets) by around $51 million. The Sox and Angels combined payroll is only about $31 million more than the MFY.
But, even teams like the MFY have their limits. I’d expect New York to cut payroll next year, especially if they win the WS. One of the best ways to keep a team’s payroll manageable is to draft wisely. Young, cost-controlled players are very important—even to “big market” teams.
Most big name free agents are bad long-term investments for a number of reasons: they tend to be older players seeking long-term deals, they are usually expensive, and they cost draft picks. Singing Type-A FAs from year-to-year will thin out a team’s farm system and potentially limit the number of good, young, cost-controlled players a team will have.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Oct 21, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
true
True but all the teams left now (except the dodgers) are mainly veteran players. Angels have some young players but they are led by their veterans (Hunter and Vlad). Thats why i dont necessarily think young is the way to go. Getting to the playoffs maybe…but winning a world series no
by cnubsbl16 on Oct 21, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, playoffs don't result in the best team every time.
Way too small of sample sizes.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 21, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i never said it did i just said i dont think younger players are the way to go. I think you need the veteran presence
by cnubsbl16 on Oct 21, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahem:
Getting to the playoffs maybe…but winning a world series no
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 21, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea
Yea i meant that i never said that playoffs result in the best teams every time
by cnubsbl16 on Oct 21, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just saying, if you can get to the playoffs, it doesn't take much more skill to win the WS.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 21, 2009 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think it does
I think in order to go through the playoffs and win a world series you need to have some guys in the locker room who have been there before and can keep everyones head level. Make sure the guys dont get too excited about a win, and dont hang their heads too low on a loss
by cnubsbl16 on Oct 22, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A team needs a good manager...
Who can handle the bullpen well, knows when to rest his players, is a good diplomat, etc.. I think Girardi has done a good job this year, along with his bench coach, the New Yankee Stadium, and its wind current.
The MFY did okay (not by their standards) last year but they had some holes that their money couldn’t solve. I would put the blame on the left side of their infield, Giambi was never a good fielder, and Cano was having an awful year. I think getting rid of Giambi and having Teixiera in the line up and in the field has made the MFY backed to their obnoxious bully boy ways, more so than having Sabathia take over for Mussina as the anchor for their pitching staff.
I don’t think the MFY are going to keep Damon and Matsui, if they do keep Damon, they might as well flip Cabrera for some relief pitching help, and bring up Jackson for Center field.
I think it will be cheaper to let Damon go, and have an outfield of Cabrera in LF, Jackson in CF and Swisher in RF. The MFY already have way too many outfielders, and should at least have two of them let go or traded. Either Cabrera or Gardner should be traded, and let Damon played for team like the A’s or the Rays.
by superferret on Oct 21, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the difference between the MFY and everyone else in payroll doesn’t even take into account the luxury tax payments which for the MFY this will be around $22M. So they are spending about $100M more than us this year.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Oct 23, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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