Theo: Buchholz in 2010 Starting Rotation, Martinez is the Catcher
by Randy Booth on Oct 12, 2009 5:42 PM EDT
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102 comments
Theo Epstein and Terry Francona addressed the media today. Here are some of the highlights:
• Epstein said it was safe to "pencil in" Clay Buchholz for the 2010 rotation.
• Victor Martinez is the catcher, period. As Epstein said, that was the expectation when they traded for him. "He's about as good as it gets," the GM said. As for Jason Varitek, discussions will be held.
• Epstein termed the Jason Bay negotiations unusual in that the team wants the player back and the player wants to come back, yet no deal has been reached. The Red Sox could well make a deal before Bay enters the market. But history suggests that any player who gets this close to free agency usually takes the opportunity. It's difficult to get a gauge of your worth until there's a market for it. Given the lack of depth in the market, Bay could drive his price up.
• Epstein said that 2010 could be the last chance for the core players to "make a run" before significant changes are made. While the Sox do not have many MLB-ready players in AAA, they have prospects who could be ready by 2011.
• Epstein said it was possible that Alex Gonzalez could be back at shortstop. But he spoke highly of Jed Lowrie and the need not to lose faith in young players. Still, as Epstein said, Lowie has yet to prove he can stay healthy in the majors.
I don't expect to see significant changes in the starting rotation: Josh Beckett, Jon Lester, Clay Buchholz, Daisuke Matsuzaka and Tim Wakefield. But I'm sure the Sox will want some depth. Michael Bowden, too, will be interesting to watch this offseason.
The second to last bullet point is interesting. "Core players," hmm? That brings to mind David Ortiz, Mike Lowell, Jason Varitek (?). There are probably more, but those are the first few that come to mind. The Red Sox seriously have to start thinking about filling the offensive holes that will be left by Ortiz and Lowell (defensively for Lowell, too).
With all of that said, answer the poll.
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IF
Ben Sheet is really healthy, I might take a look at him. He is a solid pitcher when healthy.
I would rather have Gonzalez as the starter at SS until everything is confirmed with Lowrie, health, ability etc. etc.
My question is why would Buchholz not be in the rotation? Seems quite simple with Beckett, Lester, Dice-K, Buchholz, Wake/5th guy.
I also would keep Saito. Who are the Sox gonna get that is better than his 2009 for the same money?
by SoxAcumen on Oct 12, 2009 5:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Because there are people out there who still want to trade him for Hanley Ramirez?
Not me, but they’re out there somewhere…
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Oct 12, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL Sheets
Sheets is good, and his shoulder problem may be fixed, but he’s going to miss at least 2 starts per year due to something or other (some of it unpreventable and not related to pitching…I mean, ear infections?)
by morineko on Oct 12, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Justin Morneau, Joey Votto, Jarold Saltalamachia, Denard Span…
elbow not shoulder
by Salty on Oct 13, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"My question is why would Buchholz not be in the rotation? Seems quite simple with Beckett, Lester, Dice-K, Buchholz, Wake/5th guy."
No reason, which is precisely why he will be. Just stating the obvious, maybe?
And Wake is the reason you get a 6th guy. He can move to the pen or act as a reserve so that you do have a 6th starter if you get a guy like Sheets or any of the other injury reclamation guys.
by USG on Oct 12, 2009 6:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well i say
- Something has to be done about Tek (retire buddy) he’s been great but its time to Vic to take over the reigns completely.
- As far as i saw, Alex Gonzalez played great at shortshop his tenure with the Sox this year.
- Need for another solid SP. Wake should think about calling it also, we need someone who doesnt need that much run support to succeed.
- 3rd baseman. Whatever Lowell is doing is irrelevant, we need one regardless because he wont play a full year (rest) and if he leaves we’ll need one soon anyway.
by qthaballa on Oct 12, 2009 6:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think catcher is a priority
not that I’m sure we’ll find the right one this year- no one looks too amazing that’s available. I think that Martinez is great to have, but since we want him to be able to play every day, we don’t want to wear him out catching 162 games a year- it would be great if we could have someone good enough to start with 2 out of the 5 starters, who would hopefully have some ability to throw runners out and call a game decently- offense will be less important for him- then on days where he isn’t catching, do the youk at third and martinez at first thing.
hopefully lowell would be ok with platooning/coming off the bench- at the end of the year we saw his slugging production dwindling, and I don’t think he’s hitting well enough to justify taking anyone else out instead.
For short, I’d love to see them pick up gonzalez’ option, but to split days with lowrie (assuming he gets healthy and can hit from the left, since presumably he’d be in mostly against righties) and see how they both do.
Getting a guy like Sheets or Duscherer seems like a great idea if they aren’t too expensive, since Wake has demonstrated that he probably can’t pitch a whole year, and either of those guys could use some rehab time at the beginning of the year then come in later. If he wasn’t too expensive, a year of Halladay would obviously be great, and then resign either Halladay or Beckett, but I can’t imagine him going to the AL East (or really, anywhere in the AL…), and a year of him certainly isn’t worth Buchholz in my mind, which seems like the probable cost.
next year is probably mostly minor changes with no giant trades this offseason, but I think we’re going to have to look way different as a team after 2010.
by wolf9309 on Oct 12, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Awesome on all points
-I didnt think about it that way but it may wear Martinez out a little but i guess i was thinking about guys like Mauer and Posada; how they still produce.
-I’d love Gonzalez until lowrie is back to his old form and gonzalez is no slouch until then. His defense has also been invaluble.
-I would like to see the DH being played with, with 1st, 3rd, and catcher being mixed with Vic here. Maybe play some Vic at DH if we get a new catcher. Or when Vic is in at 1st, try some Lowell at DH because i saw Papi start to slump a little again near the end.
-Lastly yeah, this will be the minor tweak season until the overhaul (hopefully) in 2010’s end.
by qthaballa on Oct 12, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mauer doesn't catch every game, for the record.
He only caught about 80% of his games this year; he’s also a phenomal hitter who could probably stay above average even if he caught all 162 games.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 18, 2009 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lowell
I think his nickname should be GIDP, wasn’t there an inning this year where he accounted for all three outs? I loved what he did for this team in 07 but he just isn’t healthy and it is affecting his level of play and he wore out quickly. We need to do something at 1B/3B/C that involved Tek and Lowell not seeing the plate too often, maybe finding a full time catcher somewhere (I honestly have no idea who or for how much) that allows VMart to play 1st and Youk to play 3rd.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
by Rogue Nine on Oct 12, 2009 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lowrie-Gonzo
It’s fairly apparent what Gonzalez’s abilities are, he’s been around for awhile, and probably won’t keep up what he did for the Sox this 2nd half.
If Lowrie stays healthy and has a solid spring training would we not want to see if he can develop? His upside is so much greater than gonzo.
by upCHUCK on Oct 12, 2009 6:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
THANKS SOX
Thanks for a great season. I thought Bard and Wagner looked good and were doing well before they were replaced. I am hoping Wagner gives Papelbon a run for the closer position – I know after yesterday, that it is and will be in everybody’s mind. I know you will take a serious look at Ortiz, Varitek, and Lowell. I am not sure that it isn’t time for them to move on. I am praying that you remain right about Matsuzaka. Looking forward to 2010 already.
by MEL1 on Oct 12, 2009 7:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree about Wagner
I know its easy to say now, but even still, during the game i was hoping they would let Wagner stay in past the 8th because he was playing well and i knew something would go wrong for some reason. Cant tell how i knew but i did, didn;’t think they would lose though, maybe give up a run or two.
by qthaballa on Oct 12, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like another option for trade...
I just like everyone else here would love to get Hanley Ramirez.
by Mike-Dub on Oct 12, 2009 8:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Who would possibly be in the trade?
"It would have been a nice idea if you could run through the postseason without losing. I don't think it's realistic."
--Terry Francona
by BoldandBrash on Oct 12, 2009 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Idk lol...
I didn’t say it was realistic lol.
by Mike-Dub on Oct 12, 2009 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure.
But I’d also love to have a farm after said trade.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 18, 2009 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
GOD HELP US
WE NEED HELP I love fact that the Red Sox got into the playoffs, but we didn’t get as far as we could have!!! The thing with Papelbon the other night was SOOO not like him so as far as i’m concerned that shouldn’t be brought up in offseason chats. The thing that needs to be brought up BIG PAPI, he is a great player and definetly has power, but going 1-12 in the ALDS is not like him . Another thing is Mike Lowell, he is very reliable but I believe we need a player that just plays third base, so when lowell needs a day off we can either give Youk a day off or both of them, because we have plenty of bench players that can play 1st base!
Another thing is if we lose Varitek we lose our captain! Who can be the captain? What makes a player qualify to be a captain?
Oh yah…. BRING BACK JUSTIN MASTERSON!!!
by Steph Z on Oct 12, 2009 8:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Who was the captain of the 08 Phillies, 06 Cardinals, and the 05 White Sox?
I was just wondering how important a captain is.
"It would have been a nice idea if you could run through the postseason without losing. I don't think it's realistic."
--Terry Francona
by BoldandBrash on Oct 12, 2009 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Epic troll?
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Oct 12, 2009 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You tried SO hard.
Let me help you:
we didn’t get as far as we could have!!!
Dur – neither did the Cards, Twins, or Rockies. Everyone could have advanced further, but only 4 teams have.
SOOO not like him so as far as i’m concerned that shouldn’t be brought up in offseason chats.
Really? Because I’m pretty sure that I want to cover every possible angle, including selling high on a guy who has some pretty big issues for most of the year.
going 1-12 in the ALDS is not like him
That’s what happens when you give a player 12 ABs – you can’t make any kind of reliable evaluation, because it’s such a small sample size. You’d almost be better off going the opinions of the fans who judge a player based on their looks (i.e. “OMG, Ells is SOOOO HAWT”).
we need a player that just plays third base
Maybe I’m taking this a bit literally, but it sounds like you would refuse a player just because they could provide extra flexibility. If you mean that you would rather have a 3B-only player for cheap than another Youk for a little more, then it makes sense.
Another thing is if we lose Varitek we lose our captain! Who can be the captain? What makes a player qualify to be a captain?
So what if we “lose our captain”? For one, it’s not a hugely important position – it doesn’t win us games, it doesn’t improve our skill level, it doesn’t save us money. And if you think it is an important factor, he can come back as an apprentice bench coach or something. We didn’t have a captain for a while before Tek was given the honor of an extra letter thrown onto his uni, and we don’t immediately need one as soon as he leaves.
Masterson: 1) Why? 2) No, seriously, WHY? 3) How?
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 18, 2009 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh? What?
You folks still seriously think Tek should be in the lineup? On what basis? Surely not his stats. He’s the captain? A good player knows when its time to retire. He catches Dice-K? Didn’t we learn anything with with Wake and his catcher taking up a slot that would have been better used as a “learner” slot? C’mon It’s time to realize that certain areas of this team need pruning for the betterment of the whole tree, and I won’t even begin to do my cranky old guy diatribe on Dice-K. But let’s look at Tek and Wake and Lowell (God bless each and every one of them for the contributions thay have made) and ask would you build a team around them? And they aren’t the end of the list either but ….if you were to ask there are two more that could go . I’d better stop. As far as team captain goes how about Dustin? IMHO a great player aand a sparkplug.
by papoonforpresident on Oct 12, 2009 9:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Tek
Tek does need to realize its time to hang up the cleats. I love the guy to death but he is just not contributing anymore. I would love to keep him around as a catchers coach or something like that. Martinez could learn alot from Tek about calling a game, i mean Tek calls the best game there is. As for Lowell, he only has a couple years left but he still produces, he is still one of the best defensive third baseman in the game, and he is def not a liability at the plate. As far as captain goes, i dont think its necessary to denote a certain captain, just see if anyone steps up and takes it.
by cnubsbl16 on Oct 12, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh boy
Lowell is the second worst defensive 3B in the entire MLB, only David Wright had a worse UZR/150.
by German Red Sox Fan on Oct 13, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fielding
He had a .966 fielding percentage which is number 7 in the league. The highest was .972 which is not too much better. I think Lowell is solid at 3rd.
by cnubsbl16 on Oct 13, 2009 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Simple fielding percentages won't impress these folks, I'm afraid.
Find something with a better acronym. ;)
Goddamn that DeMarlo Hale.
by Bloggy on Oct 13, 2009 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or something that isn't based ENTIRELY on subjective judgement calls.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 18, 2009 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the problem with fielding percentage
is that his range was so low that he couldn’t reach enough balls to make a lot of errors. His arm was great going to first and he was great at every ball that came within about 3 feet of him, but otherwise not great defensively.
That said, I don’t think there’s a single defensive stat that I feel is accurate, so I’m not judging by UZR, just by watching about 150 of the games this year- I felt more secure with youk on 3rd than with Lowell.
by wolf9309 on Oct 13, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I live a bajillion miles away...
But I agree completely with letting Pedroia be the captain next season. He seems like the guy that can get a spark lit when the team needs it. Hell he’s a season removed from the AL MVP, and he played really well during the 2007 series. He’s been there, he knows what it takes.
"A little Ice Cream with the Enemy, Huh Coach?"
www.myspace.com/knucklepuckva
by wackydeli on Oct 12, 2009 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We don't need a captain.
Its not like hockey. Varitek was the first captain since Jim Rice in 1989.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Oct 13, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want to know if there's any sport in which being captain actually matters.
I mean, is Dusty going to get up to make some awe-inspiring speech, but sit down when he realizes he doesn’t have the “authority” to do so?
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 18, 2009 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I remember correctly...
…there are only 4 players named as Captain in the entire league. Most teams don’t have them, and I think ’Tek is the only one wears the C.
The team doesn’t need a captain…it was given to Varitek as a position of honour. They went without before he was named, they likely will again.
Goddamn that DeMarlo Hale.
by Bloggy on Oct 12, 2009 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
true
Having a certain appointed captain really isnt needed in baseball. The captain of the team is the person who comes through in the clutch and who the team looks up to, to get the big hit. We dont need to name a captain
by cnubsbl16 on Oct 12, 2009 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
probably isn't even needed in hockey either
Heck, the Wild have a rotating captain. I never quite got that.
by morineko on Oct 12, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is needed in hockey
as it is either the captain or the alternates who talk with the refs on the ice.
Goddamn that DeMarlo Hale.
by Bloggy on Oct 14, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hanley Hanley Hanley
give up the farm.
VARITEK MUST GO
Brandon Webb in 2010
by gizmosandy on Oct 12, 2009 9:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Keep dreamin, Gizmo
It ain’t gonna happen.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Oct 12, 2009 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope, wait a year or two, you've got better odds then
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Oct 12, 2009 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sandy, you've really got to adjust your name, or you're going to get called your wife's name by everybody.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 18, 2009 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t bring back Gonzo. I appreciate what he did for us and all but I simply do not believe he will hit as well next season as he did in his brief stint with us. I mean he ended the season with a .635 OPS, I attribute his success in the batter’s box here to random variation and luck. He’s a good fielder but Lowrie is no slouch either, he had a 8.0 UZR last year and 3.3 this year. I know he’s only played about 80 games, but he seems to be a solid fielding SS.
by Gnick on Oct 12, 2009 11:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Gonzo is a horrendous hitter
Just look up his stats. This guy hat 2 good months with the sox, but dont be so foolish to believe he can repeat that. If he comes back and if he will be our starting SS, i predict that latest by the end of may everyone here wants him out. He likely have an OBP below .300 next season with a slugging of around .300. And a league average Glove. Boy he wouldn even crack 1 WAR if he’d play a whole season.
by German Red Sox Fan on Oct 13, 2009 12:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He was in the negatives before coming to the Sox, IIRC.
So he did manage to put up some impressive numbers with us, mostly to spite those of us who kept preaching regression.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 18, 2009 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
gonzo/lowrie
maybe i’m the only one here who thinks this, but I really don’t see anything special in Jed Lowrie. I’ve gotten to see him play since the 06 season when he was with Pawtucket, and at the same time Ellsbury was down there as well. Everyone touted these two as our “future”. Within 1 inning, I already saw the upside of Ellsbury. 3 years later and I still think Lowrie is a below average hitter, and an average at best fielder. Alot of people are knockin on Gonzo, but RIGHT NOW he is better than Lowrie. hands down. I really feel like we could keep Gonzo here for at least 2 or 3 more seasons (he’s only 33 next year.) and then see where Casey Kelly is at in his progression.
by zabosox33 on Oct 13, 2009 12:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
When we've seen Lowrie healthy, he's definitely been an above average hitter.
i don’t think the Sox have dealt with his injury very well. Instead of giving it plenty of time to heal, they rushed him into ST to try and keep Lugo out, basically, and then when he got hurt they tried to rush him back. Even later this season it was clear it wasn’t fully healed. Hopefully, a full, surgery-free offseason will get him healthy.
by USG on Oct 13, 2009 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also...
Gonzo isn’t any good NOW offensively, at least. I don’t know what we stand to lose by taking a flier on a JJ Hardy / Jed Lowrie combo. If nothing else, JJ is a great defensive SS with the ability to provide a power bat.
And Casey Kelly isn’t a shortstop—or at the very least he shouldn’t be given the incredible dichotomy between pitcher Casey Kelly (future ace at best) and Shortstop Casey Kelly (future defensive backup at best). Iglesias is the guy you want. He’s already got a major league level glove, and the Sox are convinced they can teach him to bat.
by USG on Oct 13, 2009 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with alot of what you said.
I agree that the Sox rushed Lowrie back big time, and yes I def. see the upside of Lowrie, but I’m not convinced it’s ever going to get here. I would really love for him to prove me wrong, come out of ST guns blazing and give us what we all expect.
I wasn’t really proclaiming Kelly the starter/future, I was just saying whoever it can be in 2-3 years could take over then when ready. And yes, I hope it is Jose Iglesias. And in that case, why not go with a Gonzo/Lowrie combo for the next few years, then bump it to a Lowrie/Iglesias team?
Oh, and I def. wouldn’t mind Hardy either, especially if we could get him for say 3 or 4 million, instead of Gonzo getting 6.
by zabosox33 on Oct 13, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hardy would be in arbitration
So he probably won’t even get that much given last year’s performance. The Brewers are shopping him, so we can probably do a trade with just a mid-level prospect, maybe a bit more. Certainly nobody like Kalish or Reddick though.
by USG on Oct 13, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brewers don’t have many needs other than starting pitching. I suspect they might package him with other players to get a starter.
by Salty on Oct 13, 2009 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just because you don't need doesn't mean you don't accept.
With Hardy being relegated to essentially “backup prospect” status in the organization, they take what they can get in the minors even if it doesn’t fill a need. There’s not a ton of teams looking for SS’s out there, certainly even fewer that have a starter to offer.
He might get packaged in a deal with US if we do decide to go after, say, Fielder. But I don’t expect the Brewers are gonna hold out long if they get a non-shitty offer.
by USG on Oct 14, 2009 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't agree at all
There are a ton of teams that need a SS and if the offer is near worthless, they can just leave him in AAA. You sound as if you can make a shitty offer and get him and no other team will enter in the bidding because he’s a backup or had a down year.
by Salty on Oct 14, 2009 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem for Milwaukee
Is they can keep him, but they also have to pay him. Hardy made $4.65 million last year. Players don’t get paycuts via arb, so he figures to make at least that much in 2010. That’s a lot to pay for a minor league/bench player.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Oct 14, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
seriously
Its easier to name the teams with solid SSs than go through all the teams that don’t have one. The number of teams that he would be an upgrade for is probably in the 20s. If the best he can garner (and I think the idea is ludicrous) is a shitty offer for some minor league filler, it would be wiser to pay half his salary and keep him in AAA till the trading deadline. How much will the Sox pay if they are in a pennant race and they need a SS? What if Jeter pulls up lame around then? And on and on
Really it doesn’t matter because someone like the A’s, Giants or Twins or even the Bluejays will make a better than shitty offer.
by Salty on Oct 14, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the Brewers wait until the trading deadline
They’ll get less because only contenders may be interested. This is Hardy’s last arb year. No team is going to give up much for two months of JJ Hardy. If the Brewers are serious about moving him, they’ll get more now.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Oct 14, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say shitty.
Just the right level for a guy who had a supremely bad year and was relegated to AAA status. Not a no-name prospect, but certainly not an MLB ready guy or one with huge potential given the fact that it’s the end of his arbitration period and he’s a crapshoot.
by USG on Oct 14, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its not really illustrative to refer to him
as relegated to AAA status. He basically lost his job to a guy who is considered to have a pretty high ceiling and is thought of as a wunderkind. They were also getting an extra year of arbitration.
He’s got 2 years of arby left.
I imagine you were hopeful that the Sox might win another pennant. He’s better than AGon. If he were to play like he did last year, he’d be better than a lot of guys starting in the majors now. Maybe you’re right. I think its far-fetched. All Melvin has to do is pick up the phone and call the GMs of the A’s, Twins, Giants, Reds, Astros, Bluejays, Tigers, Mariners etcetera
by Salty on Oct 14, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And all of them would reply
that giving up established talent for a guy who just dropped off the face of the Earth statistically speaking is not worth established talent to them.
He WAS relegated to AAA status. He had crap numbers and, as a young player, was sent back to work on whatever his problems were. I’m not saying he’s a AAAA lifer, just that he’s not going to get the value you’d expect for a starting MLB SS.
Everyone knows they want to deal him since he’s now essentially “blocked”. They’re not dealing from a position of power. I’m not saying we’re gonna shove Jeff Bailey off on them, just that it’s more likely to get a guy like Felix Doubront than it is to get them an MLB-ready starter.
by USG on Oct 14, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who do you think we should give up?
I don’t think anyone was saying that we were going to be sending Jeff Bailey over there, but we also won’t be sending Casey Kelly. JJ Hardy is an extremely good fielder and possibly an excellent hitter. The problem is that Milwaukee has to trade the guy. They are kind of stuck in a corner. So who do you think, specifically, we will need to give up?
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Oct 14, 2009 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gonzo vs. Lowrie
Gonzo is not a better player player right now, as you previously stated. In only 81 games in 2008 Lowrie put up a 1.9 WAR, in a full season this year Gonzo managed 0.6.
by Gnick on Oct 13, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
*In 81 games, likely with a broken wrist for the majority of them, in 2008...
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 18, 2009 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gonzo is horrendous offensively.
He’s also aging and expensive. If Lowrie can be an above average fielder (which it looks like he is) and a slightly below average hitter, then we’re doing okay.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Oct 13, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Within 1 inning, I already saw the upside of Ellsbury."
With that small statement, you completely eradicated whatever credibility the rest of the comment might have. Judging a player based on one inning should be a crime.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 18, 2009 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And just how to do you intend to acquire Mauer
Giving up Pedroia, Buch, Lars, and Casey Kelly does not sound like something I’d want to do.
by Gnick on Oct 13, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the way the Sox should look next year:
1B – A. Gonzalez
2B – Utley
SS – Hanley
3B – Longoria
LF – Braun
CF – Kemp
RF – Zobrist
C – Mauer
DH – Pujols
Get it done, Theo—and don’t trade any valuable prospects. It should be easy because every other GM in baseball wants Boston to have their best players.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Oct 13, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't like that lineup
Ryan Braun is a horrible defensive left fielder…
by Randy Booth on Oct 13, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Braun had a 4.7 WAR this year
I believe Milwaukee will be going in a lower WAR direction, and may trade Braun straight up for someone like Joey Gathright.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Oct 13, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah
I should have figured. Needless to say, that doesn’t support the conclusion.
by Salty on Oct 14, 2009 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Braun
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Oct 14, 2009 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Braun has a bad UZR
the two aren’t the same
by Salty on Oct 14, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By most range metrics
Braun is average-to-bad. Range is very important in run-prevention, as most MLB players can catch balls hit right at them. His arm also isn’t great.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Oct 14, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ironically
He’s got pretty good range. He may not always get a great jump, but he often does and catches the ball when he gets to it. Your comment about his arm makes me think you haven’t watched him. He’s not Ankiel or Bruce but he’s got a really good arm.
by Salty on Oct 14, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me rephrase that
“Best” we’ve got. It compares the balls he gets to and the ones he doesn’t to the major league average based on location. The fact that he’s come up consistently negative over a 2-year period where he played almost every inning in left means he’s almost certainly a below average left fielder.
Just because UZR isn’t perfect doesn’t mean it’s not a useful tool.
by USG on Oct 14, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would you play Alex Gonzalez at SS?
Switch him and Hanley and you’re set.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Oct 13, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I meant, “Why would you play Alex Gonzalez at 1b?”
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Oct 13, 2009 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because Gonzo is the man!
Put him anywhere!
Goddamn that DeMarlo Hale.
by Bloggy on Oct 13, 2009 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Late nights not good for USG's brain.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 18, 2009 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard that...
we are going to look at David Wright, Jose Reyes. and or Felix Hernandez but I have no idea who we would give up.
by Mike-Dub on Oct 13, 2009 3:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What is the deal with the Alex Gonzalez love?
I was traveling for all of September so I did not watch any of our games that month, and I understand that he played well, but do people really think he will continue that? He was been a bad hitter for a long time now. I doubt that has changed.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Oct 13, 2009 5:18 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
And welcome back, BT.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Oct 13, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
because he's the best option we have right now.
First, I hope you were joking because on the above posts it’s Adrian Gonzalez not Alex. Second, it’s not like were all praising Gonzo, it’s just the fact that we all have no idea how healthy Lowrie will be for next year, so why not keep a guy like Gonzo around for another year as a sort of “insurance” plan. Do I think Gonzo is a top SS in the league? No. Do I think he’s better than alot of other starting SS’s in the league? Yes. I don’t see any problems why they wouldn’t try and work something out. By reports so far into this short offseason, it seems as though the front office wants to go a different way so we’ll see.
by zabosox33 on Oct 14, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gonzo is not better than a lot of SS's in the league
He had a 0.6 WAR, that’s 6th worst among the 33 SS with 400+ PA. Gonzo has an option for $6 million. There is no reason for the Sox to spend that much on a player that’s little better than replacement level. Gonzo is decent defensively, although he does lack range. But there is only one SS worse offensively: Yuniesky Betancourt.
Gonzo will be 33-years old next year. He has only had two seasons of 2.5 WAR or better since 2002. A good year for Gonzo at this point would be a 1.5 WAR because his defense is no longer good enough to offset his poor offense. Gonzo had a .275 wOBA last year (.295 wOBA career).
If the Sox want good defense and poor offense at SS, Jack Wilson is a much better choice. Wilson can’t hit—.286 wOBA this year (.298 career wOBA)—but his defense makes him more valuable than Gonzo. Wilson was 1 win better than Gonzo this year, and has put up back-to-back UZR 150s better than +15. Wilson will be a FA if Seattle declines his $8.4 million option.
JJ Hardy was a 4.5 WAR player in 2007 and a 4.9 WAR player in 2008, before slipping to 1.4 WAR this year. Hardy is five years younger than Gonzo and has way more upside.
The Sox have more than one option at SS for next year. Also, let’s not forget that as a rookie with a bad wrist, Jed Lowrie was a 1.9 WAR player in half a season (81 games).
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Oct 14, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He had trouble staying on the field for the Reds
by Salty on Oct 14, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which, in and of itself, is pretty much all the proof we need.
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 18, 2009 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
I find it baffling that anyone is even considering Alex Gonzalez as our starter. Hardy would be a good get. Lowrie deserves a look when healthy. We need an upgrade at this position. It was an absolute offensive and defensive black hole for almost the whole year. In my opinion, this has to be the priority of the offseason. And Alex Gonzalez provides very little upgrade.
"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw
by BTLove on Oct 14, 2009 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joining my Jed Fan Club then?
@bs_uf15bosox9be 12 pieces of bacon, a Red Bull, and go get 'em; Learn to use SB Nation
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 18, 2009 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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