Red Sox set deadline with Jason Varitek
by Drugs Delaney on Jan 25, 2009 11:23 PM EST
63 comments
MGBB noted on another thread a rumor that the Sox have offered Jason Varitek a $5 million contract. According to WEEI's Rob Bradford, the Sox have offered a possible two-year deal. The first year would be guaranteed for $5 million (with possible incentives). There would be a club option for another $5 million or a player option for $3 million.
I think this is a bad deal for the Sox. It seems to go against their policy of setting a value for a player and not over-paying. In my opinion, Jason Varitek is not worth $5 million.
In addition, a Tek signing means that either Josh Bard or George Kottaras won't make the team. While neither is a sure thing at catcher, both have far more upside than Varitek (who isn't a sure thing himself).
Aside from Tek's declining skills, one of my main reasons for not wanting Tek back is my belief that he still envisions himself as a legitimate starting--if not elite--catcher. Why else would he turn down a guaranteed $10 million in arbitration? Bradford quotes ESPN's Buster Olney regarding Tek's negotiations with the Sox:
Here is where they stand in the impasse: Varitek is asking for an annual salary close to the $10-12 million he would’ve made through arbitration, or a two-year deal for less annual salary. The Red Sox are willing to pay him much less than that, and don’t feel they owe him extra cash for services rendered in the past, and they don’t feel they owe it to him to offer a salary commensurate with what Varitek would’ve made if he had accepted arbitration.
If this is true there's no way Tek will accept being a platoon catcher in 2009.
Bradford notes that the Sox have set a deadline for the negotiations. But there's no word on the exact date of the deadline.
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Well, in the grand scheme of things this is not a lot of money. Also, Varitek embodies their philosophy of being mature and a clubhouse leader and he can handle the pitchers very well. Becks, Wake, and Smoltz may not need him, but Dice-K is comfortable with Tek and the Young guns +Penny probably like the idea of pitching to an established veteran. Also, along with Epstein’s philosophy of trying to remain league average, Varitek will probably rebound after his divorce year. And he will be a mentor for the new catcher which I’m sure that Theo will soon trade for.
"We're not going to give up," It doesn't happen, so who cares? There's always next year. It's not like it's the end of the world."
by revigik on Jan 26, 2009 8:02 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
+1
For those children who claimed they’ve been a fan of their favorite team all their life, or even since they were about four or five years old: bullshit. There’s always that certain event or certain player that draws to the sport and draws you to a team. For me, Nomar Garciaparra was that reason. - Nick Coviello: I Try To See Rocco, But All I Think Is Nomar; 1/9/09
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jan 27, 2009 7:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I won't complain about $5 M a year
The Red Sox are under budget and poised to pick up a big contract over the course of the season if/when a team holds a fire sale. The $2-3 M over what most OTM readers think Varitek is worth is a pittance to the Sox ownership.
And next year, the odds that Varitek is a Class A free agent are pretty slim. He can leave and sign with a different team if he thinks that he can make more than $3 M.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
by SoxDevil on Jan 26, 2009 9:19 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
This could get ugly
I agree with you that Varitek isn’t worth 5 mil, and that isn’t the only bad thing about this contract. It has a second year option that Tek may pick up (he could be even worse by then), and, like you said, one of Kottaras or Bard isn’t making the team, and both project to be better than Varitek at this point.
I have no idea why the FO is doing this. Varitek turned down arb, that should have killed any chance of a deal.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Jan 26, 2009 10:30 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
How does Bard project to be better than Tek?
The numbers Drugs cited here give Bard an average of .014 points better of OPS. Tek’s work ethic and brain more than make up for .014 points of OPS.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jan 26, 2009 8:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bard makes less money, has higher potential than Tek, is younger
I could go on.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Jan 26, 2009 9:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We assumed you meant for this year in Bill James, CHONE, etc.
For those children who claimed they’ve been a fan of their favorite team all their life, or even since they were about four or five years old: bullshit. There’s always that certain event or certain player that draws to the sport and draws you to a team. For me, Nomar Garciaparra was that reason. - Nick Coviello: I Try To See Rocco, But All I Think Is Nomar; 1/9/09
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jan 27, 2009 7:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
CHONE and Marcel project Bard to be better
Logic does too.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Jan 27, 2009 9:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But not significantly better.
The projections are very close.
by BTLove on Jan 28, 2009 12:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's assume the two players are the same
Tek will cost an extra $5 million.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jan 28, 2009 7:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My only hope is that they are suddenly doing this because they have found a trade partner for a young catcher and they want to bring Tek back to groom him
by Realistic on Jan 26, 2009 11:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Also
Resigning Tek makes us look less desperate. If Texas or another team demands too much for a young catcher, we can go with the old “We’re perfectly fine starting [insert name here] at [insert position here] this season.” In this case, we would tell the Rangers that we don’t need their guy, so they are no longer in a position of strength from a bargaining standpoint.
by Schulz on Jan 26, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The more I think about this
the more I think this is really bad. It is perhaps true that several pitchers really like throwing to Tek, but that is not enough to justify this contract, if the reports are true. Consider:
1)Tek is supposed to be a “leader” with great “intangibles” however this leader sulked when he was pinch hit for in the playoffs. The guy friggin hit .205 after April, and he thinks he should be hitting in a big spot. Is that a leader? I don’t want a delusional leader who does not know his role.
2)He flat out stinks at the plate, and his defensive skills have eroded. He can’t throw anyone out either.
3)He is clearly worse than Kottaras/Bard at the plate, and probably Brown behind the plate, and these guys are cheap.
How can we give him 2 years? If you think he was bad last year, wait till he is 38.
by Buzzy on Jan 26, 2009 12:42 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Perhaps Papi can DH for him and the pitchers can hit?
They probably wouldn’t do much worse.
by RSNexile on Jan 26, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Where's the "clearly worse" come from?
Kotteras is supposedly pretty bad on D, and word is Bard regressed big time last season, to the point he was non-tendered (I think).
Tek’s arm ain’t all that these days, but he’s still one of the best at blocking the plate.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jan 26, 2009 8:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Doh.
I misread, thought you said “clearly worse behind the plate.” Long day.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jan 26, 2009 8:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Health
a lot for Bard depends on health, but he is much younger, so one could expect a bounce back at the plate. In 06 and 07 Bard mashed to the tune of a .914 and .966 OPS against lefties, far better then Tek’s recent years. Thus, I assume a Bard/Kottaras platoon will be significantly better at the plate. Since this platoon can’t work with Tek, there is no possibility to match offensively. I agree that both Bard and Kottaras are poor behind the plate. Tek is better, but he is really declining on D too. The only runners he can throw out are of the “Molina” class, and while there are no statistics to look at, his blocking skills seemed to be worse last year than I ever remember.
by Buzzy on Jan 26, 2009 9:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bard was injured, though.
Triceps, IIRC.
For those children who claimed they’ve been a fan of their favorite team all their life, or even since they were about four or five years old: bullshit. There’s always that certain event or certain player that draws to the sport and draws you to a team. For me, Nomar Garciaparra was that reason. - Nick Coviello: I Try To See Rocco, But All I Think Is Nomar; 1/9/09
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jan 27, 2009 7:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
2 years for Tek doesn't guarantee a starting gig
I agree with most of you guys that giving Tek the option to come back in 2010 could bite the Sox in the ass, but there’s no guarantee that he will be the starter in 2010. He’ll get 70% of the playing time in 2009 if he signs, but if he comes back next year, the Sox will sign another catcher and he will become the 30% guy…
Bottom Line: I don’t mind paying him $3M to train the new guy and play back up – even if he does hit .220 again.
by bottomlinesox on Jan 26, 2009 1:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The question is
is that the role Tek sees for himeself? All indications are “no.” Indeed, as I mentioned above, he sulked in public after being pintch hit for in both series (Tito had to address it in the press), even though Francona warned him this would happen. If that is the case, and he is holding out for the big bucks, why do we think he will lovingly take hold of the backup/mentor role? As bad as the morale issue may be vis-a-vis the pitchers and cutting Tek free, it damn well could be worse keeping him (espically after this year).
by Buzzy on Jan 26, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Whether it’s this year, next year, or 2010, the pitchers will have to get used to throwing to someone else. If Tek is dumb enough to forgo the Sox’ welfare-like contract, the pitchers will adjust. Farrell can call pitches from the bench, if need be.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jan 26, 2009 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This Varitek-Boras-Red Sox deal
is starting to sound shadier than the Cash-4-Gold scam.
The rhythm is the bass and the bass is the treble
by DirtySouthSox on Jan 26, 2009 1:30 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
What?
You mean that’s a scam? Dammit…
For those children who claimed they’ve been a fan of their favorite team all their life, or even since they were about four or five years old: bullshit. There’s always that certain event or certain player that draws to the sport and draws you to a team. For me, Nomar Garciaparra was that reason. - Nick Coviello: I Try To See Rocco, But All I Think Is Nomar; 1/9/09
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jan 27, 2009 7:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I found a bright side
This line-up with Tek would make us the Wu Tang Clan of baseball. We need a bad player to play the U-God role. With a good catcher, we’re just a great line-up. With a bad one, we’re history. U-God sucked, Varitek sucks, 8 other extremely talented people around ’em. It all makes sense now.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Jan 26, 2009 3:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Of course.
Not sure that NY connection makes sense.
For those children who claimed they’ve been a fan of their favorite team all their life, or even since they were about four or five years old: bullshit. There’s always that certain event or certain player that draws to the sport and draws you to a team. For me, Nomar Garciaparra was that reason. - Nick Coviello: I Try To See Rocco, But All I Think Is Nomar; 1/9/09
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jan 27, 2009 7:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Boston was not the best place for hip hop music, you know
So NY it’s close enough.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Jan 27, 2009 9:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gifts Unlimited Rhymes Universal...
Boston’s own.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jan 27, 2009 9:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, right
This sounds like a gospel hip hop band, funny name.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Jan 27, 2009 9:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's Guru man.
You ain’t hip?
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jan 27, 2009 10:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gang Starr
Damn, it’s been a long time since I’ve heard about this. They’re from Boston? Really?
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Jan 27, 2009 10:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Guru is.
Premier is from Texas, I think.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jan 27, 2009 10:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is one of my favorite hip hop albums. Roy Ayers is bad ass. As is Guru.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jan 27, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow!
I didn’t know about that, Roy Ayers is wonderful, I love his stuff. Going to check that later, thank you very much dude.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Jan 27, 2009 10:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I had no idea
I’m going to listen to some of that shit, I love the hip hop from that time. It makes me wish Chuck D could kill Lil Wayne.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Jan 27, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe this deadline has to happen
As the Dodgers should do the same with Manny, the Red Sox need to set their spring training rosters.
The only reason Boras is waiting on Tek is bc he believes someone else can be brought in to up the Red Sox offer. Unfortunately for Tek and Manny, they are victims of being Boras’s “B” clients and got screwed by his manipulation of the market. Its time for Scott Boras to get his clients to sign so other FAs can get into camps.
Take it or leave it Tek, sign or walk, either way I am still a fan, but its now time to move onto the future.
I got over Pedro leaving, Millar and Lowe leaving and Damon going to the Yankees, I will get over Tek not being a Red Sox.
On a side note…
Red Sox should make an offer to O. Cabrera and Ben Sheets, see if they can get them on the cheap. Trade Lugo, free up a young arm to deal for a catcher. Lowrie will get plenty of time playing backup to Pedroia, Lowell and Cabrera.
by SoxAcumen on Jan 26, 2009 4:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hey, Boras got Alex Cora $2 mil from the Mets
So he must be doing something right.
Agree about Tek.
But I don’t want OC back. He isn’t that good. Why pay him? I want to see what a healthy Jed Lowrie gives them. Lugo is impossible to move without eating most of his contract. In my opinion, OC and Lugo are similar players. Why pay both? Sheets wants too much guaranteed money. That’s why the Mets, who need starters, haven’t signed him yet.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jan 26, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lowrie seems like the way to go at this point
He showed he might be able to stick at SS, and that was ever the question, not his bat.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Jan 26, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Drugs
OC time has past? I really didnt get a chance to see him much last season. I just know he plays a pretty solid SS.
by SoxAcumen on Jan 26, 2009 7:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's still decent defensively
But he is not a good hitter. Last year he had a .705 OPS. It’s not worth paying OC and Lugo, which is what the Sox will have to do if they go after a third SS.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jan 26, 2009 8:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Some thoughts
1)I agree the Sox would get over Tek going
2)Manny, unlike Tek, can still play. Regardless, there does not seem to be much of a market for “M-b-M”
3)I for one would not be happy with the Sox making offers to OCab or Sheets, for different reasons. I think OCab is overrated, and is not much liked in the club house. In his last 4 years his OPS+ is the same as Lugo’s for his career. Plus, no one would take Lugo anyway. Sheets is interestesting, but we have just signed 2 guys to the “injury incentive” contract, so I don’t see where he can fit.
by Buzzy on Jan 26, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sheets
I would’ve rather had Sheets than Penny, and if we waited long enough, we probably could have signed Sheets for only a couple million more than Penny. No big deal though, I’m happy with Beckett, Lester, Dice-K, Penny, Wake, Smoltz.
by Schulz on Jan 26, 2009 6:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I might be wrong about OC, but Sheets just screams “Take a chance on me.” Guys like that usually bring everything they got to prove people wrong. I know he is an injury risk but if he stays healthy…OH MAN. What a great pick up, but a big “if.”
Manny’s problem is not his skill its that NOBODY wants him. So a deadline from the Dodgers is the correct move. They can always sign another player.
by SoxAcumen on Jan 26, 2009 8:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No one is going to beat 2yrs/$8m AND give up a draft pick, and Boras knows it.
And the Sox know Boras knows it. If Tek doesn’t resign, he might as well retire.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jan 26, 2009 8:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Or he could sign mid season somewhere.
The rhythm is the bass and the bass is the treble
by DirtySouthSox on Jan 27, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is there some point where he won't cost draft pick?
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jan 27, 2009 6:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
After the draft
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jan 27, 2009 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"In my opinion, Jason Varitek is not worth $5 million."
I am assuming you meant for 2 years? Because we no damn sure he isn’t worth 5mil per, much less 2.5mil per.
There’s been some interesting theories in the above posts….
bring back the veteran to train young guy…
certain pitchers like throwing to him…
gives us a decent bargaining position, etc. etc. In principle I agree with all of these sentiments, however I reckon we just couldn’t get anyone to bite on a deal so we throw 5 mil at situation and revisit it next year…simple as that.
For those that are regular posters here, you know that I refer to him as the carcass and his approx. 20% rate of throwing out baserunners is pitiful, however if you don’t have any other options, you just cover your bases and go with that.
Not ideal, but it is a solution.
by sydneysox on Jan 26, 2009 5:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I’m OK with the money. Obviously his performance last year would warrant less money, but whatever. We might just be trying to avoid looking like assholes/embarrassing him. At this point though, we’ve got to sign somebody (I’m not satisfied with Bard+Kottaras) and then see what we can do at the trade deadline or next off-season.
Like you said, it’s not ideal, but it is a solution.
by Schulz on Jan 26, 2009 6:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Chad Finn with a great overview of the Tek situation
If you haven’t read it, it’s from boston.com.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jan 26, 2009 6:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Tek should ask for a 1yr deal...
Here’s an intersting angle:
A 1-year deal may be the best option for Tek. If he has a great 2009 season, he could go to arbitration after the season and (learning from his mistakes) likely get another 1-year deal worth $6-8M – a bump from the $5M he would make in 2009.
I doubt he’ll do much better than that as a free agent in 2010… and it’s better than the $3M option the Sox have proposed.
Thoughts?
by bottomlinesox on Jan 27, 2009 9:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Depends on whether the Sox would offer arbitration after another crappy year.
He’s best off taking the most guaranteed money now, IMO. g
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jan 27, 2009 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"g" = typo.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jan 27, 2009 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tek should fire Boarass
Why are the red sox going to over pay for a guy who sucks . I hope they write in to the contract that he cant bat lefty, any time i see him bat lefty i get so pissed off. I would rather they dont sign him and they continue the youth movement from with in no trades. How old is he 37 the odds of a injury happening is huge,Is Theo going to over pay for past work?
by Red Sox #1 Fan on Jan 27, 2009 11:50 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
OT: Sean Casey retires, will join MLB.com
Good luck to a great guy. Note the kind words he had for Boston. The following is from mlb.com
Casey retired from Major League Baseball on Tuesday and joined MLB Network as a studio analyst.
Casey, a three-time All-Star first baseman and designated hitter, ended a 12-year career that began in 1997 with Cleveland and concluded last year in Boston, with its biggest chunk an eight-year run in Cincinnati.
Casey joins an on-air crew of baseball analysts that includes a plethora of former players, including Harold Reynolds, Barry Larkin, Al Leiter, Joe Magrane, Dan Plesac and Mitch Williams. He’ll be a regular on the one-hour “Hot Stove” show that will give way to the eight-hour nightly “MLB Tonight” once the regular season starts.
Casey, just 34, like Larkin, joins the Network with no previous broadcast experience. He was widely considered to be a great ambassador for the game of baseball and one of the most accessible players during his time in uniform.
Tony Petitti, the Network’s president and chief executive, called Casey, “the friendliest player in baseball.” And he wasn’t far off the mark. During the call, several veteran baseball writers lauded Casey for giving his time so readily to the media during a career in which he batted .302 with 130 homers and 735 RBIs.
Casey, as a member of the Tigers, hit two homers during their five-game 2007 World Series loss to the Cardinals and called that one of the highlights of his career.
“I was raised by mom and dad to treat people the way I want to be treated,” Casey said. “That was a big thing for me throughout my life, not just baseball.”
Casey, one of more than 100 still outstanding free agents this offseason, said he had some talks about returning to the Red Sox in 2009, but that possibility seemed to disappear when the Sox instead re-signed free agent Mark Kotsay, who will be utilized in a utility role in the outfield and at first base.
Casey played only one year in Boston, where he batted .322 with no homers and 17 RBIs in 69 games.
“That was one of my favorite years,” he said. “Just being part of that team was unbelievable. The tough part about this for me was that baseball has been so good to me. It was everything I thought it would be and more. My agent had talked to some teams and nothing was in concrete yet. I think I could have definitely played [this] year and being back in that role coming off the bench. But weighing my options with my family, I decided I just wanted to stay home more.”
by ccthemovieman on Jan 27, 2009 6:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Good man.
For those children who claimed they’ve been a fan of their favorite team all their life, or even since they were about four or five years old: bullshit. There’s always that certain event or certain player that draws to the sport and draws you to a team. For me, Nomar Garciaparra was that reason. - Nick Coviello: I Try To See Rocco, But All I Think Is Nomar; 1/9/09
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jan 27, 2009 7:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Deadline is now Friday!
Some of us thought that the deadline for the Sox’ offer to Tek as Saturday. As it turns out, its this friday.
by Schulz on Jan 28, 2009 8:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yep
The Globe can’t get their dates straight. :-)
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jan 28, 2009 9:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tired Of This "Tek" BS
As I was with the “Tex” fiasco. This is absurd. The Sox painted themselves in a corner by not getting a solid, young catcher for 2009 and now may have to settle for a guy who’s washed up but doesn’t want to admit it.
Either scenario: the Sox lose. I hope the guy’s ego makes him miss the “deadline” and Boston is forced to find another alternative, somebody better.
by ccthemovieman on Jan 28, 2009 10:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Signing Tek doesn't rule out a trade for someone better/younger
by Schulz on Jan 28, 2009 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
After you've just spent $5 million to sign him?
It’s unlikely. Also, ‘Tek would pout if on the bench, He pouted late last year when Francona pinch hit for him once. He isn’t the team player he used to be, apparently. The Sox have a big problem right now; let’s hope they solve it.
by ccthemovieman on Jan 28, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that this doesn't preclude another move.
$5 mil for the Sox is a drop in the bucket. Its nothing. If they have a chance to attain a good, young player they will not let Varitek’s presence dissuade them. Do you think if Tek had accepted arbitration they would have been out of the catcher trade market? I doubt it. Ideally having Tek around to help out some new, young guy has always been their plan.
by BTLove on Jan 28, 2009 9:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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