Kelley Shoppach?
I come to you as a peaceful Indians fan intending no harm just to ask a few questions.
1. Do you still want a catcher?
Kelley is great with younger pitching and a big improvement offensively over Cash, Bard, and your captain combined.
2. What other positions do you still need players for?
I heard you need a 4th outfielder, maybe minor league depth (jk, your farm system is always great, we're envious)
3. What would you need to be thrown into discussions for Tom Mastny?
We have Ben Francisco & Trevor Crowe available in OF, Kobayashi in the bullpen, and various starters/ middle releivers, who are, let's say, "unestablished": Sowers, Laffey, Jackson"
In general Cleveland fans hate Boston fans, but I don't know if feelings are mutual, seeing that Boston people are the only ones that seem to be moving INTO Ohio instead of out of it.
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The question is what would the Indians want in return
Masterson, Bowden, Bard are available, while guys like Buchholz and such are not. Which one is the biggest need for the Indians?
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on
Jan 2, 2009 4:42 PM EST
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The Indians
need another super utility player on the down side of their career or an injured pitcher. They like to collect those type of players and I am sure they would love it even better if he was a ivy leaguer. Get Shoppach back here and the Sox win a World Series. That guy is money and it was ashame they parted with him in that wrong way deal with the Indians so long ago. Coco was a nice player and was the best defensive outfielder in the Al a few years ago but Shoppach has more value. The only good thing to come out that trade was the Sox were able to unload the future bag Marte. I guess Marte shows that you shouldn’t trade with the Braves when it comes to prospects because they seem to know which ones are going to fail (Marte) and which one that will succeed. I said it at the time but it was a good short term deal for the Sox because they filled a need in CF but long term it would hurt them because they would be losing their future replacement for Vtek. I never thought Marte would amount to anything so I discounted him being in the deal. That said get Shoppach back for Lugo and a bag of balls. I am sure the Indians would do the deal because Shapiro isn’t very bright.
Baseball is God's sport! All Truth Goes Through Three Stages 1.It is ridiculed 2.It is violently opposed 3.Finally, it is accepted as self-evident. kinesiologist
by E5 on
Jan 4, 2009 3:25 AM EST
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Masterson is available?
I hope not, he’s a freakishly good setup man. I haven’t seen anything about the Sox trying to re-acquire Shoppach, but I have seen rumors about the Sox trying to make a run at Jeff Mathis, which is funny because it’s my opinion that Shoppach and Mathis are the same person. I would love for the Sox to make a run at Shoppach, though. But strictly as a backup to Tek for a year or two. He’d be cheaper than Teagarden/Salty and he has proven major league power.
by DirtySouthSox on
Jan 2, 2009 5:05 PM EST
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Tek doesn't have two years
I’m not sure he even has one.
by RSNexile on
Jan 2, 2009 5:44 PM EST
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He's assuming
That Tek will resign. Probably a fair assumption once Boras comes down to earth (oh wait this is Boras we’re talking about, and Tek deserves Posada money!). In all seriousness, I think Tek resigning for a year or two is very likely.
by Schulz on
Jan 3, 2009 12:51 PM EST
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You're missing the point
I’m not sure Tek can be a major league caliber player for even one more year, so why would we want him as our starting catcher?
by RSNexile on
Jan 3, 2009 5:27 PM EST
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That's the subject of a different debate.
I was just clarifying DSS’s point. Personally, I would rather see Teagarden, Shoppach, etc. behind the plate.
by Schulz on
Jan 4, 2009 12:38 PM EST
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Huh?
Mathis may be the only catcher in the league who is a poorer hitter than Tek. As for Shoppach, I have mixed feelings. He is a decent defensive catcher. He is not young as catchers go (will be 29 at the start of next year), and I can’t tell if his power breakout last year was real, or a fluctuation. He Ks a lot. Overall, he would certainly be a real upgrade, but I would not give up too too much for him. Maybe Bard + lesser talent but no more.
by Buzzy on
Jan 2, 2009 6:36 PM EST
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Oh
I meant they have the same chubby athlete bodies. I didn’t mean they were the same in value or production.
by DirtySouthSox on
Jan 2, 2009 6:58 PM EST
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The feeling isn't mutual.
I don’t hate Indians fans or their team, and I doubt many here do. It’s hard to even dislike a well-run organization like the Indians, which manages to be competitive quite frequently. And one that, afik, isn’t intentionally poor like Pohlad’s Twins. The folks who hate us at LGT would have to be as obnoxious as those on HH to really be on our hate list.
Shoppach would probably cost too much after his phenomenal season, and his likelihood of repeating it seems low to me. I’d rather have a Teagarden, Salty, Ramirez or a Bryan Anderson than Shoppach. Given the state of Boston’s pen (on paper, kinda good), I doubt any trades will be made for Indian relievers. Anything’s possible though. A 4th Outfielder might be more appealing.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on
Jan 2, 2009 7:49 PM EST
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The Indians
are not as well run as you think. Two winning season in the last 6 I don’t think that is a sign of a well run organization. Those poorly run twins have one LOSING season in the last 6 seasons. Maybe winning percentages don’t mean much to you. The hatred the Indians fans have for the Sox is equal or greater of the hatred that Sox fans have for the Yankees. The sad part is that the hatred is built on arrogance, jealousy and ignorance. Most of the posters on LGT are fools and have blind faith in the front office of the Indians and believe that the Sox are the anti-Christ of baseball along with the Spankees. They believe that the Sox won their world series by buying their team, which is blatantly false. I know exactly how they feel about grinders like Pedoria and Youkilis. That call Pedoria a troll and they always talk like he is the devil. Youkilis is roundly hated over there and his name is often attached with an expletive.
Say what you want about the Indians but as a former fan I know how it feels when you team quites on you. They never acquire real talent in trades and often over hype players abilities so they can make themselves feel better about the losing. (see Marte) I became a Red Sox fan because of LGT and the poor decision making by the Indians. I fully respect the Red Sox and admire how they properly value players worth and are not afraid to make major deals (ie Nomar) or acquire players like Dice K. There is no arrogance to what Theo does as opposed to what Mark Shapiro does. Listen to these guys talk some time about their clubs and you get a real feel for why one team is always successful and one isn’t. Shapiro often talks down to his viewers where as Theo enlightens them and is very quick to point out it is a long season and that they are looking at things but don’t what to rock the boat unless they need to do so. Shapiro often is quick to say that the team is under performing that they might have to trade their valuable assets and start over from scratch.
Baseball is God's sport! All Truth Goes Through Three Stages 1.It is ridiculed 2.It is violently opposed 3.Finally, it is accepted as self-evident. kinesiologist
by E5 on
Jan 4, 2009 3:45 AM EST
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I don't know a great deal about the Indians.
Never really followed them. My impression is that as a team, they’ve underperformed in recent years. I don’t think W-L tells the whole story. By pythagorean record, they had winning records in 2008, 2007, 2006 (89-73 pythag, vs. 78-84 actual), and 2005.
Much of the behavior on LGT is very obnoxious. I’m glad that the visiting Indians fan who posted above didn’t emulate them.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on
Jan 4, 2009 6:28 PM EST
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I've found in regards to Indians fans,
that they are horribly resentful of baseball’s economic system. There is a lot of talk of how “the game is broken.” They believe their team to be very well-run, but it seems they can never put together a good year. Since they can not really afford to sign free agents, they rely on their farm system and trades. Some of which have been very good. They got Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee, and Brandon Phillips for Bartolo Colon. (Thats almost as good as the Heathcliff Slocom deal.) They just hate us for beating them a few years ago. Whatever.
by BTLove on
Jan 5, 2009 9:40 PM EST
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Pass on Shoppach for Masterson
Shoppach is not that young, arbitration eligible next offseason and doesn’t get on base all that well.
by BTLove on
Jan 5, 2009 9:42 PM EST
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+1
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on
Jan 5, 2009 9:43 PM EST
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Indians
I’m sorry the Indians are heading to AZ. Their fans treated me well when I showed up in Red Sox gear. The office staff was willing to sit and talk baseball with me on a cold, windy day (for FL) when I wanted to buy tix. Bob Feller is a goldmine of PR- out there shaking hands, signing autographs and even tossing some pitches. He stopped to talk with me about the Sox one day.
Shoppach developed better in Cleveland than he could have here due to Martinez’ injuries. Had he been stuck behind ‘Tek these last 3 years (probably spending some of that time in the minors) he wouldn’t be as good a hitter.
Seriously doubt Masterson is available- he was the vital guy bridging the gap to Papelbon. I wouldn’t mind a trade for Shoppach, but I’m not sure we have what it would take to get him (the 2 B’s will be needed if Penny or Wake come up lame during the season).
Our pitching should be better (healthy Beckett & incoming Penny), we won’t have that early season bullpen mess, and hopefully a healthy Lowell , Lowrie & Papi and no pouting LFer. I think our hitting will be better than last year. But no cakewalk with the improved Yankees and Rays (though the Jays & O’s should be weaker than last year).
"simul justus et peccator"
by cavman on
Jan 6, 2009 9:48 AM EST
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