His point was that LF is a easier position to play, therefore good hitter who are bad fielders play in left. So the average from the LF is higher than the one in CF.

They are bad fielding corner outfielders. In past years they might be getting big contracts, but in recent years fielding has become more important and so these guys are making $8mil per instead of twice that.

Also, it seems that you are saying that bad defense at SS would keep someone out of the Hall, but bad fielding in LF should not. This makes absolutely no sense. A bad fielding SS would be moved to 2b or 3b. If they can’t field there they might go to 1B or to LF. So a mediocre or bad fielding SS is often more valuable than an excellent fielding LF becuase LF is so much easier to play. If someone is as bad a fielder as Manny Ramirez (or Jim Rice, though I admittedly know little about his defense), the only way he can stay in the majors is if he is a truly incredible hitter. This does not necessarily make him a better baseball overall than a mediocre hitting SS. It is this thinking that has left us with almost no second basemen in the HOF.

I’ve heard that he was “the most feared”, but never actually the best player of the decade.

Glad to see him in, but would rather boot out all the marginal inductees. If your not in the Williams, Mays, Ruth, Henderson category then in my hall you ain’t getting in.
The best quote I ever read about all this was, if you need to argue for someones induction then they probably aren’t a HOFer. Henderson was a slam dunk, easy.
Maddux, slam dunk. Clemens, Bonds, F. Thomas, slam dunks. Too easy.

I agree. Yaz is a no doubter Hof’er in my opinion.

I cited this in a thread below, but using defensive Win Shares, Yaz and Rice aren’t that far apart defensively. Yaz averaged 2.65 per 1000 innings in LF, Rice 2.63.

Or are Win Shares passe now?

Rice’s career is pretty similar to Yaz’s, except lacking an 8-year period at the end where he produced poorly like Yaz did.

Rice’s peak also lasted longer, and aside from 1967 Yaz was hardly ever considered one of the best hitters in the game.

The idea that Yaz should get in and Rice shouldn’t solely because of defense is preposterous.

What’s your day job? Humor writing by any chance?

REC’d!

Even for a parody of my favorite show.

Lynn’s peak wasn’t long enough and Evans is in that Jack Clark/Darrel Evans category for me. Very, very close. But I’m a small hall guy, so probably not.

we are all stat-oriented and read a lot of Rob Neyer. Also, a lot of us never saw Rice play and have no emotional attachment to the guy.

You are so old.

What the fuck is wrong with you? David Eckstein won every single WS up to this date, sir, the media lies to us. There never have been a team winning any fucking thing at all without David Eckstein, or at least without a couple of players wearing underwears with his face on. That’s fact.

which is adjusted for ballpark and year (thus, by era), Jim Rice’s best year was 1978, the year he won his MVP. In 1978, Jim Rice had an OPS+ of 157.

Between 1960 and 1980, I found 92 better individual seasons than Rice’s best. There would have been more. But I generally limited it to 500 AB, unless the player was a catcher or they had 480+ AB and 100+ BB. These are the best seasons between 1960 and 1980 (Red Sox players in bold):

1969 – Willie McCovey – 209 (OPS+)
1961 – Mickey Mantle – 206
1980 – George Brett – 203
1961 – Norm Cash – 201
1972 – Dick Allen – 199
1966 – Frank Robinson – 198
1971 – Hank Aaron – 194
1967 – Carl Yastrzemski – 193
1969 – Reggie Jackson – 189
1961 – Jim Gentile – 187
1967 – Frank Robinson – 187
1976 – Joe Morgan – 187
1973 – Willie Stargell – 186
1971 – Willie Stargell – 185
1965 – Willie Mays – 184
1966 – Dick Allen – 181
1970 – Willie McCovey – 181
1971 – Bobby Murcer – 181
1963 – Hank Aaron – 179
1969 – Frank Howard – 178
1977 – Rod Carew – 178
1969 – Hank Aaron – 177
1970 – Carl Yastrzemski – 177
1979 – Fred Lynn – 176
1963 – Willie Mays – 175
1973 – Dick Allen – 175
1967 – Harmon Killebrew – 174
1968 – Willie McCovey – 174
1962 – Frank Robinson – 173
1964 – Willie Mays – 172
1980 – Reggie Jackson – 172
1967 – Roberto Clemente – 171
1971 – Joe Torre – 171
1980 – Mike Schmidt – 171
1962 – Hank Aaron – 170
1968 – Carl Yastrzemski – 170
1968 – Frank Howard – 170
1970 – Frank Howard – 170
1960 – Frank Robinson – 169
1972 – Bobby Murcer – 169
1975 – Joe Morgan – 169
1967 – Hank Aaron – 168
1969 – Roberto Clemente – 168
1975 – John Mayberry – 168
1961 – Roger Maris – 167
1969 – Rico Petrocelli – 167
1974 – Willie Stargell – 167
1977 – Reggie Smith – 167
1969 – Rusty Staub – 166
1972 – Johnny Bench – 166
1974 – Reggie Jackson – 166
1978 – Dave Parker – 166
1979 – Dave Winfield – 166
1960 – Eddie Matthews – 165
1962 – Willie Mays – 165
1963 – Orlando Cepeda – 165
1968 – Willie Horton – 165
1969 – Frank Robinson – 165
1977 – Ken Singleton – 165
1977 – George Foster – 165
1964 – Ron Santo – 164
1966 – Willie McCovey – 164
1967 – Orlando Cepeda – 164
1961 – Frank Robinson – 163
1964 – Bob Allison – 163
1969 – Willie Stargell – 163
1970 – Boog Powell – 163
1964 – Dick Allen – 162
1972 – Carlton Fisk – 162
1972 – Cesar Cedeno – 162
1974 – Jeff Burroughs – 162
1960 – Roger Maris -161
1961 – Hank Aaron – 161
1961 – Harmon Killebrew – 161
1963 – Willie McCovey – 161
1966 – Ron Santo – 161
1973 – Reggie Jackson – 161
1975 – Fred Lynn – 161
1960 – Mickey Mantle – 160
1964 – Frank Robinson – 160
1965 – Hank Aaron – 160
1968 – Dick Allen – 160
1969 – Boog Powell – 160
1970 – Roberto Clemente – 160
1960 – Willie Mays – 159
1961 – Willie Mays – 159
1971 – Harmon Killebrew – 159
1973 – Tony Perez – 159
1974 – Joe Morgan – 159
1968 – Jimmy Wynn – 158
1970 – Tony Perez – 158
1974 – Mike Schmidt – 158

Can someone please explain to me how Dick Allen isn’t in the HOF?

I appreciate those who appreciate Hank Greenberg. He’s one of the most underrated players of all time.

seriously though. Can we discuss why Johnny Pesky is not in the hall but Phil Rirruto is? Poor Pesky, getting thrown out of the dugout…

He had a career ERA of 3.90. If you look at the league ERAs whan he pitched, he was a only a bit better than league average. Eating innings is important, but it shouldn’t get you into the HOF.

Morris was never once the top pitcher in the AL. He was in the top 5 in ERA only twice in his career (both times 5th). Morris led in strikeouts one year( the year he led th AL in IP). In short, he was a good pitcher who was lucky enough to play on some very good teams.

The surgery being nicknamed for him should account for something.