Toss in the towel?
Well, as of 9-18-08, the Red Sox are 2 games back of the Rays. With the Rays, unless they have an extreme skid, gaining 2 games is as likely as Sean Casey hitting an inside-the-park home run.
The Red Sox have two options:
Bring out all the big guns (meaning, no resting for the playoffs.)
OR
Rest, conserve and take the Wild Card.
The two advantages of winning the division:
The momentum (this team seems to be all about momentum)
Not playing the Angels
This means probably playing Chicago, and their only ability seems to be htting home runs. As opposed to, the Angels, who have an excellent running game, as well as timely hitting and good pitching.
The risk of going for the division title is that a star player might get hurt (Pedroia breaking a finger on a headfirst slide, Ortiz re-injuring his wrist.)
Is it worth the risk?
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Other advantages:
Lining up rotation, BP
Giving the youngin’s some playing time
Storing Papi’s, the Destroyah’s and Youk’s power for the playoffs versus the Angels. Best way to beat them: big offense and good pitching.
Remember when we were kids and we mixed sodas together and called them "suicides"? It was OK though, because Dr. Pepper was always there.
Extremely hard question you pose here as of today!
Normally, I would say that letting-up purposefully from an all out effort might put one into a fatigued state that a team may not recover from, and that would be bad. However with the injuries that the Sox have now, they are already in such a fatigued or hapless state. Therefore, go for the rest and take the wildcard, but be careful not to loose so much steam that you also lose the wildcard position in the process.
If this strategy works out, the big trick will be getting revitalized in and for the playoffs after sitting back in a semi state of disgrace. That could be as hard to do as beating the Yankees 4 in a row in 2004, but as shown then, once momentum kicks in with the right players, it can be done!
My final note—Wakefield cannot be allowed to pitch in the playoffs or World Series. He is finished against good teams IMO, and we just cannot afford another embarrassing meltdown as we have seen 2 of the last 3 outings he has pitched.
Go for it. Win the division, and you play an OK team from the Central. Lose the division, and you play the best team in the majors in the first round; if you win, then you will likely play the second best team in the majors.
Angels are not the best team.
They have been extremely lucky.
Remember when we were kids and we mixed sodas together and called them "suicides"? It was OK though, because Dr. Pepper was always there.
Extremely lucky.. You can’t be dumb enough to believe that they are the best team in baseball by luck. They don’t blow teams out like some teams do, which affects their Pythagorean but it doesn’t mean that it’s luck. Just because a team wins by 10 runs more often doesn’t mean they are a better team.
Angels
are the best team bc they play in the worst division in the AL, their staff is unproven in the playoffs and they will rely on two very suspect starting pitchers when both the Rays and Sox have multiple starters who have playoff experience. Also, even with Tex, their lineup really does not put fear into anyone in the AL.
Beckett, Lester and Dice-K are far better than
Lackey, Santana, and Saunders.
IF I was the Angels, I would be praying for the Red Sox and not the Rays in the ALDS, small ball v. small ball will be a battle of pitching staffs and the Rays are far better at every spot except Lackey and K-Rod…and Lackey v. Kazmir could be a wash.
Not saying they are lucky based off runs scored.
The fact that they had the Mariners for 18 (or 19) games, the A’s for 18 (19) games, and the Rangers for 18 (19) games would be considered luck to me.
Remember when we were kids and we mixed sodas together and called them "suicides"? It was OK though, because Dr. Pepper was always there.
First of all...
We are the best team in baseball regardless of the Angels or Rays win/loss record.
The club has already been setting itself up for the playoffs as per normal and this will just exacerbate the issue. Momentum is a phantom thing. This club can turn around in one day and start playing great because they know they are the best. We came back from 0-3 against NY because we knew we could, simple as that. For the previous 86 years it was always, “now what bad thing is going to happen” The club has turned a corner and just doesn’t think like that anymore.
As far as the Angels are concerned, don’t be fooled by the regular season dominance. The playoffs are a whole different story and we own them in the playoffs. With our 3 starters of Lester, Beckett and Dice-K, no other club is as good. Seriously, the two games I remember most from Beckett this season are the 1-0 loss to NY and this recent game against the Rays where he just dominated and got a ND. He will be THAT good in the playoffs.
C’mon, dropping games with Wake and Colon starting doesn’t mean sh*t in the playoffs as those guys will be long relief anyway.
Rest everyone who needs rest, play the youngsters, get dialled in for Oct. and then kick everyones arse.
Don't look now
But the Rays just got fucked by the Twins. It’s not over, man. I say we make a run at the division, and try not to face the Angels in the first round (not that I’m scared of those fuckers, it’s just that the ChiSox/Twins would be easier).
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
I don't think you phone it in the rest of the season.
But I do think it’s worth being prudent. Especially, don’t overwork Becks and Lester. We’re going to need those two to be in tip-top shape for the playoffs. I’m not opposed to managing the rest of the season in such a fashion that it shapes up with Lester-Beckett-Daisuke or Beckett-Lester-Daisuke for the playoffs, with all three possibly getting additional rest.
"Are you a real doctor, or a doctor like Dr. Pepper is a doctor?"
don't sweat it
Just play normal baseball. The Sox don’t need to juggle anything, do they?
Make sure the rotation is in order and rested for the playoffs. Make sure people like Papi and Varitek get enough rest. Make sure Pedroia stays hot.
I don't think it's an issue of "giving up"
I think it’s time to start playing smart baseball. The starters should have set pitch counts so they don’t accidently throw their arms into a funk. If an everyday starter feels like he “might” need a day off, give him the day off. You don’t just shut down someone. And I think the last two games or so it should be like an all-star game – have everybody play for a few innings to keep fresh.
Man do I hate Longhorn fans, well except for the ones that actually went there.
Rest of the Season
First of all, the Angels are far from the best team in the Majors. They have the best record but if you look at their Pythagorean Record you will see who the best team is, the Red Sox
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/standings.php
Now if I had my decision between playing the White Sox/Rays not rested or the Angels/Rays Rested. I would take the latter without hesitation. Our team has been plauged with injuries all year. Alot of our players have had to step up to fill the voids and have been over worked. We NEED to rest some of our players.
Jon Lester career innings pitched numbers 2006, 128 2007, 153.2 2008 197.1. He has already been pitched too much for his first full year in the majors. He has to be rested or the next start could be his last and we will lose him for the postseason.
Kevin Youkilis as everyone knows gets burned out towards the end of the year but comes back alive during the post season. He has finally hit that wall, the last 30 days he has hit .247/.356/.438. Give him some time off.
Paps the past two years has pitched 59 games a piece, he already has 62 games this year. Give him action to keep him loose but that is it. We know he has fatigue problems so don’t over work it.
Big Papi, Mike Lowell, and J.D. Drew all are working through injuries. Let them heal properly with rest. We all know they can tough it out if they want to, but I would rather have them 100% for the postseason.
Our team is very deep and can still win games with its bench players, so it is not giving up by putting in the 2nd string. If I was manager I would use the following players.
CF: Ellsbury/Crisp Platooning and alternating days depending on the pitcher.
RF: Kotsay
LF: C. Carter
1B: J. Bailey
2B: Pedroia to keep him hitting hot.
SS: Cora
3B: Lowrie
C: G. Kottaras/D. Ross which ever one Tito has more trust in.
Actually forgot DH
Now that I think about it, I would put Carter at DH and platoon Van Every and Bay to keep him hitting well.
Agree about the injuries
However, Kotsay is wasted space offensively. He is hitting .159/.229/.227 in September, worst on the team. I know John Henry loves him. But, to me, he should only be used as late-inning defense. Coco and Ellsbury should be playing every day, with Crisp in CF and Taco in RF. Bay just had three days off. Lowell, despite the injuries, has a .997 OPS in September (best on the team). If he feels he can play, he should play (same with Papi). Neither player will get better with a day off here and there. They will be hurt and play hurt until the Sox’ season is over. Then, they may have surgery.
I don’t expect to see Drew again. That is a huge loss. However, if the injury is lingering and he misses more time next year, the Sox should cut Drew loose after 2009. They have an injury clause in the contract. That said, I like Drew. He is a patient hitter and great defensively in RF. Without Drew, the OF should be Bay, Coco, and Taco.
As for Youk, even if he plays every one of the 10 remaining games, he’ll have played fewer games than he did in the final two months of the 2007 season.
Kottaras and Ross are depth only, to be used in long games when Tek needs rest and Cash has been pinch-hit for already. Why use Bailey when you have Casey? If healthy, Casey should play 1B if Youk has to play 3B for Lowell.
While I’d like to see Carter get more AB, as he looks like a professional hitter, there is no need to drastically alter the line-up with 10 games left in the season. Aside from Tito’s insistence on playing Kotsay (and batting him 5th!), players have been used judiciously. Francona is good at resting players.
Yes the Sox are deep, which is why they’ll likely make the playoffs after having tons of key players hurt. But, they are using most of that depth now. There is no reason to pack the line-up with minor leaguers.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Sep 19, 2008 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Fly-weight OF
A regular OF of Bay, Ellsbury, and Crisp is too light-hitting for my taste. We need another Drew-or-Bay-like player to play RF.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
Agreed
But it doesn’t look like that’ll happen this year. I’ll be surprised if Drew comes back this year, and no one on the roster is better than Ellsbury/Coco—unless you think Kotsay is. The only choices are:
Bay-Crisp-Ellsbury
Bay-Crisp-Kotsay
Bay-Ellsbury-Kotsay
I think Tito will go for option three, more often than not.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Sep 22, 2008 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm glad this pole is so even. 10-10 as of 10:45 ET on 9-19.
We OWN the Angels in the playoffs. They have nearly NO playoff experience (correct me if I’m wrong, Drugs.) Clinch the WC, then play everyone but platoon to keep others hot.
My last sig was too long, so my new one is: He who hesitates is a mediocre ambidextrious stupid person who thinks the Rays suck and stole Joe Maddon's shoes while thinking he was at a baseball game but was at church.
I'm not Drugs,
But I’ll happily correct you. The Angels have plenty of playoff experience in the last decade. In that time frame (1998-2007) they’ve had four appearances, one pennant, and one World Series, which is pretty good. In that span their record is 952-821 (0.537 Winning percentage).
The team was absolutely abysmal as the California Angels (1965-1996) with only 3 playoff appearances in 32 years. But that has nothing to do with the current team. And playoff experience doesn’t matter a damn. Just ask the Yankees, who haven’t won anything in this millenium.
Adding to what 0157H7 said
Of the starting pitchers, Lackey and Garland have rings. The former with the Angels in 2002 and the latter from 2005 (White Sox). Ervin Santana pitched in the post-season in 2005 and 2007 (11.2 IP, 2.1 IP more than Jon Lester). Jared Weaver made one start in last year’s ALDS.
Relievers: K-Rod has pitched in 19 post-season games in ’02, ’04, ’05, and ’07. Scot Shields has played in 13 playoff games in ’02, ’04, ’05, and ’07. Both have rings from 2002. Justin Speier pitched in 1 game last year. Darren Oliver pitched in the post-seaon in 1996 with Texas, 2006 with the Mets, and last year with LA.
Line-up: Anderson 32 G (‘02, ’04, ’05, ’07). Rivera 24 G (’02 and ‘03 with the MFY, ’05 and ’07 with LA). Figgins 22 G (’02, ‘04, ’05, ’07). Figgins and Anderson have rings from 2002. Hunter 21 G (all with Minnesota – ’02, ’03, ’04, ’06). Vladdy 16 G (’04, ‘05, ’07). Izturis 4 G (’05, ‘07). Quinlan 4 G (’05, ‘07). Napoli 3 G (’07). Kendrick 3 G (last year). Willits 3 G (last year). Mathis (3 AB last year). Aybar (1 AB last year).
They may have fewer rings—only Lackey, Garland, Anderson, and Figgins have one each—but that doesn’t mean anything. Mike Timlin, with four, has the most on the Red Sox. The Angels have plenty of post-season experience.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Sep 20, 2008 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Oops
K-Rod and Shields also have rings.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Sep 20, 2008 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Ervin Santana and Saunders....
…in pressure situations….ummm…. YES PLEASE!!!!
Beckett v. Lackey – I would still go with Beckett even in LA
Lester v. Santana – Lester (no brainer here)
Saunders v. Dice-K – in the battle for who walks the most, ill take Dice-K

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