Manny's cleats fit Bay perfectly

by BoSox415 on Aug 21, 2008 6:11 PM EDT

Jason Bay.

Man, what a sentence. What a guy. What a PLAYER.

What a RED SOX.

Jason Bay has done a great job replacing Manny. Manny was a slugger, causing problems such as not hustling, throwing tantrums, even taking a pee in the Monster. Jason has hustled, been a team player, is slugging even better than Manny, and has been a great trade. This is a win-win trade. Manny loves being in L.A., and Jason loves finally having the oppurtunity of playing in a playoff atmosphere.

.343, 17 ribbies, 18 runs scored... pretty good for a Red Sox left fielder. Taking the crown from Yaz, Jim Rice, and Manny, he has filled the void well.

The question is...

Now that we have had a fair sample of games from Bay, what do you think of the trade now?

Poll

How would you grade the Bay-Ramirez trade?

Terrible. It's just luck, and when it runs out we will be begging for Manny to come back.

1 votes

Disappointing. Everybody loved Manny, and as Jason has been doing well, Manny has been doing even better.

4 votes

Average. A basic trade where both teams come out happy.

3 votes

Good. Bay has been performing well, though Manny has also.

12 votes

Great. Manny is gone, Jason has been a great replacement, and the lineup is now more flexible.

21 votes

41 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

You must live in a realistic place.

Manny’s problems had made him unfit for a team sport such as baseball. Watch and see him act up soon in L.A. Poor Joe Torre.

by NG on Aug 21, 2008 7:12 PM EDT reply actions

2004 World Series MVP?

First ballot Hall of Famer?

Yeah, he’s unfit all right.

by RickD on Aug 22, 2008 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions

2004 is like light years ago.

Manny’s current mental state is what we should be talking about, and it is quite obviously unfit to anyone with an open mind.

by NG on Aug 22, 2008 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions

poll choices

You don’t have an option for “Sox did best they could given bad options” or “uneven trade forced upon Red Sox” or “How is this a good trade when the Sox are still paying Manny’s salary?”

I like Bay as a player, but I think it’s silly that I have to say “everybody loved Manny” to say that this was a bad trade. And I know nobody will be “begging to have Manny back”. But what Lucchino and Epstein have managed to do is trade away their best hitter, and prospects, and get a weaker hitter back, all the while still paying the enormous salary of the player traded away.

Or to look at this from another perspective – this is a fantastic trade for the Dodgers, even if they don’t re-sign Manny. They get $7 million value of a hitter for free. And yes, he is hitting better than anybody on the Sox is right now, which is not a surprise, since he hit better than anybody on the Sox back in July before he was traded.

by RickD on Aug 22, 2008 3:40 PM EDT reply actions

Not for free

Remember, they traded Andy Laroche, a highly regarded 3B prospect, to get Manny.

by 0157H7 on Aug 22, 2008 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions

going forward, we should expect Bay to be a slightly better player

Manny’s probably 5-10 runs better on offense, but Bay is 10-15 runs better on defense.

my blog // calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy // past results do not guarantee future performance

by Sky Kalkman on Aug 22, 2008 8:54 PM EDT reply actions

Not true

Great hitting will always count for more than great defense. Besides that, Bay has not been a great fielder by any means in the past. In fact, he has been pretty much completely average in LF.

by Gnick on Aug 23, 2008 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions

yes, Bay is an average left fielder and Manny is 10-15 runs worse than average

I agree that the scale of hitting talent is much wider than the scale of fielding talent. But Manny’s further behind Bay in fielding that Bay is behind Manny in hitting.

my blog // calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy // past results do not guarantee future performance

by Sky Kalkman on Aug 25, 2008 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Not that I disagree with you

but what are you evaluating their defense by? I ask because a couple things (Win Shares, FRAR) will say that Manny’s been the better defender this year.

My impression is that Bay has more range, but is by no means a plus defender, and is probably slightly below average.

by 0157H7 on Aug 26, 2008 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions

i'm looking at historical UZR and current year zone ratings (averaging STATS and BIS)

win shares and FRAR (and FRAA) do not use play by play data, meaning they don’t know where balls were hit (even approximately like in basic zone ratings).

Justin runs his overall player ratings with an average of BIS (via hardball times) and STATS (via CNNSI) zone ratings. Go here:

In 2007 (and one year of fielding data has a decent amount of error), Manny’s at -12 runs with BOS and -6 runs with LA. Bay’s at -5 with PIT and -6 with BOS. Over the past few years, Bay’s almost exactly average, while Manny is in the -15 to -30 range. He was a plus OF during his years with the Indians, though. None of that includes arm, but you can look that up over at THT.

my blog // calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy // past results do not guarantee future performance

by Sky Kalkman on Aug 26, 2008 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions

the link, oops

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pfk_WuYpfdux2FC_hs6ROEQ&gid=1

my blog // calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy // past results do not guarantee future performance

by Sky Kalkman on Aug 26, 2008 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions

Is this park-adjusted?

If not, Manny and possibly Bay may be penalized for so much time in front of the Monster.

by 0157H7 on Aug 26, 2008 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions

i don't know about STATS and BIS zone ratings, i'm guessing not

UZR and Dewan park-adjust, I know that. if you look at Manny’s fielding stats over the past few years, he’s still quite bad in away stadiums, though.

Can anyone with access to Dewan’s +/- stat throw his ratings of Manny and Bay out here?

my blog // calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy // past results do not guarantee future performance

by Sky Kalkman on Aug 27, 2008 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions

I hate Barry Bond

but now would be a good time to add him. The pitching is awful right now and the best chance the Sox have of winning is by outscoring teams. The loss of Manny has hurt the offense so now would be a good time to add him. Jason Bay is hitting well but I know him and he is due for a major slump. If they move Bay to Right and put Bonds in LF where his broken wheels would not hurt you. Plus, when they walk Barry late in the game you put Ellsbury or Coco to pinch run and improve your outfield defense when you need it the most.

Baseball is God's sport! All Truth Goes Through Three Stages 1.It is ridiculed 2.It is violently opposed 3.Finally, it is accepted as self-evident. kinesiologist

by E5 on Aug 23, 2008 7:12 PM EDT reply actions

Good plan with JD out for a while in RF...

I would rather look at other options before choosing the guy who hasn’t seen Major League pitching in about 11 months, probably hasn’t swung a bat in the past 6, and would bring in more media to an already overflowing clubhouse.

Don't question my choice of teams, or I will have to go all troll on you.

by bdalebs on Aug 24, 2008 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions