Can we promote this to the front page?

I don’t care about the collective bargaining agreement stuff; this is a serious issue. If they care so much about the example they’re setting for kids with steroids and other PEDs, they should care even more about substances as dangerous and disgusting as tobacco.

i know i could care less but i just can not stand this kind of argumentation in general (and i have finally internet acces again) so my 2 cents on the arguments>

1st
Tobacco chewing/smoking has to be prohibited because it is doping.

well, 1st of all, it is not.

tobacco is no doping as far as i know (performance enhancing! i think for shooting sports it is even on the list but i am not sure about that).
so do not compare it with steroids or any other of these things because it has nothing (absolutely NOTHING) to do with that. i am not sure about the standing of the Tour de France on tabacco chewing while climbing Col du Tourmalet but hey, give it a try and tell me how you were doing.

i know that tobacco has physical effects and when these would be performance enhancing than you might have an argument for a ban (PHYSICAL effects, not PSYCHOLOGICAL, cause then you might ban sunflower seeds and Silver Surfer comix too or whatever might help the players to relax or not to fall to sleep between long innings).

2nd
It should be prohibited because the players give a bad example.

sportsman as rolemodels, an idea from the US-american culture i bet.
R U KIDDING?
people who get ridiculous money to make their living from their hobbies.

i cannot hear it anymore. Proffessionel Sport is business and “sportsmen in itself” are in no way a good example for any kid (general capitalist arguments foreclosed for now). the human being behind the sportsman might be but the big business called Professionell Sports makes it even harder for any sportsman to find an accepatable degree of humanity and succeding in the business at the same time.

you want to have good examples? go to the the nurse who take care of olders which is paid not nearly enough to take care of her own family, or any poor mother wich has no money and is still able to give her children all the love which is needed to make them caring human beings (or the million other people who fight for humanity in “normal” boring jobs in our western societies). you know, there are things in the real world which matter and from these you should be able to get good examples for whatever you want them to have for.

i would agree that in our vision (at least in mine) succeding sportsman could be a good example of achieving youre goals while paractising ethical values and fairness against all…aeh, well, and then there is reality which is money and greed in all of society and so in sports.

and the mistake is not the sportsman, it is my vision but that does not make the sportsman a rolemodel either.

and of all the ballplayers in the MLB there would come one name to my mind first if i would have to think about a rolemodel (not for me please) or at least a good example in things matter for real live.

of all players to imagine sherpa, you brought Tim Wakefield up as an bad example because he chews tobacco?
Tim Wakefield?
W A K E F I E L D ?
one of the few guys OUT OF HUNDREDS who is still mentally sane besides the craziness of a multibilliondollarbusiness he has to live with just to play baseball (at the highest level)?
can not believe it.
Tim Wakefield is one of the very few professional baseball players wich make at least the impression of an honest human being to be full of integrity.

that does not mean at all that he could be a rolemodel for anything besides that he keeps his mind in an environment full of money (which is no small accomplishment).

3rd
all the tobacco related health “facts”.

tobacco is a drug and so it is the same as for any drug i guess.
you want to use it?
no problem, you are an educated, emancipated from (compulsory) schooling, enlighted and grown up human being. so make your own decisions and live with the consequences.
you are nothing of these?
well, than the USE OF TOBACCO BY STRANGERS is probably not your main problem.

to question your loyalty to the game because of tobacco is…sry, what does that mean anyway…loyalty to the game?

the only thing i can imagine is that you mean you stay a fan of the sport baseball instead of let’s say cricket or polo or other sports and you may change that when they do not stop chewing tobacco in the MLB.

no matter i look at it it does not make sense to me.

so please, could you explain to me what does “loyalty to the game” mean to you in this context?

i am a fan of the sport baseball because it is the greatst sports in the world (besides football naturally) and it will be the greatest sports (besides football) no matter what kind of assholes are playing or anything. this sport is even great when some drunk fools play it.

and i like that there are people chewing tobacco while competing on a high level.

so i say to all of the posters on this topic:

LET THEM CHEW!

@cubsfaninatl
if you complain about the dirt they produce through spitting i would agree with you there could be rules to prevent this.
if it is because you just “can’t stand the stuff”...hmm…well…

Thank you for your comments. You sound like a very true fan of the game. You brought up some very important points that are worthy of further discussion.

First, I agree with your suggestion that smokeless/ chewing tobacco is not considered a “performance enhancing” drug such as steroids or EPO. However, my point is that it IS a drug. Period.

Secondly, the hard truth is that “American” culture worships 3 things: fame, money, and sports heroes. Speaking from my experiences as a high school teacher, I see how young people worship and idolize these things. I believe it is our responsibility to work to be good role models and set good examples for them as much as possible even if it makes us uncomfortable. The comment above yours is proof that young people are experimenting and perhaps even becoming frequent users of smokeless tobacco.
I believe a ban of this harmful substance DURING the game is a step in the right direction. The response has been somewhat good since it is banned in the minor leagues.

Frankly, I don’t care what major league players and coaches do in their personal time. Either way you slice it, I question these guys as serious and true “athletes” if they have to use snuff while they are in the game.

Finally, a personal experience is motivating me to voice my opinion on the harmful effects of chewing tobacco. I lost a cousin to chewing tobacco in the early 90s. He was a fit, very athletic 21 year old who loved all sports. While hanging out with his friends at his home he suddenly turned blue and died on the way to the hospital. The autopsy confirmed that the chewing tobacco triggered choking and asphyxiation. So I can speak to the awful effects of chewing tobacco firsthand.

As much as I support the freedom of choice for all consenting adults it seems like a ban on chewing tobacco during MLB games would take such little effort to have a broad impact on young, aspiring athletes.

i almost would agree that “true athletes” should not use drugs during the competition…well, thought about it…i do not…i do not care as long as they do not try to cheat with it.

and you are right when you say that with a little effort it could have a broad impact.

that is were i come close to give in.

and when you just see it from that point of view it sounds totally agreeable (is this an english word?) and makes quite some sense.
but this is a littlebit the school way to look at things (i would say you know more about that than me).

i do not want to start a big discussion about education and schooling systems (cause this is the main point of the discussion).
but i can not accept to say, well the world is like that, kids worship bad things and the wrong people for the wrong reasons and we can not change that so lets at least try to make the bad things and wrong peopple they worship a bit better in one thing.

well, you are a teacher YOU CAN CHANGE THESE THINGS !
(even though it is dangerous for you to try it).

the question is, what is more important to change?

and then there is the effort argument again…ok…i finally give in.
if you want first change the rules about tobacco chewing during a ballgame because it is possible with just a little effort and then go to change the whole education, schooling and value system of western society i will support you in both.

i support the latter and almost tend to support the former now.

ps:
thx sherpa for you calm answer to my post.
often i have problems to find the right tone in answers about topics i am really interested in cause i get excited and then i want to adress too many aspects at once.

damn it just happened again ; -)

i hope this one does not sound to radical.

i think if they choose to dip thats their life and their choice. you cant really tell some one to stop what they like doing. its not illegal and its not harming others. like if they where smoking and the smoke can cause second hand smoke but dip is just harming your self.

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