Jason Bay, Manny Ramirez: The Immediate Aftermath
by Randy Booth on Jul 31, 2008 7:09 PM EDT
in News
105 comments
Meet our new stud left fielder, Jason Bay. (via d.yimg.com)
Let me start by saying that there is no possible way that I can write this now and cover everything that has been thought about or discussed in the last two hours. That's not possible, so I'm just going to cover what hits me at the moment. So, you know, more will definitely be coming later with more stuff pops into my head or anyone else's over the course of the day/week/month/season/history.
There is no rhyme or reason to this. Hence the bullets:
- I don't think the Red Sox got "fleeced" or any other term that could be substituted. Yes, it would have been nice to keep Brandon Moss or Craig Hansen or not have covered Manny Ramirez's remaining salary, but it just wasn't going to work like that. The Pirates knew what they wanted and the Red Sox knew they wanted to get rid of Manny. This is what it boiled down to and it's either pull this trade or keep a pissed-off Manny for the rest of the season.
- Keep Manny you say and get the draft picks? OK. That might be doable. But then you are essentially writing off this season. And even though the last couple of weeks have been some of the worst baseball the Red Sox have played in recent memory, we still have a shot. Draft picks are always nice but then we're risking more deterioration to this club via Manny's ways.
- I love Manny. He's a great hitter. But at this point, the Red Sox had to end their relationship with him. It has cost him them far too much to just put up with the guy. I wish him the best of luck in Los Angeles.
- Where was Moss going in the Red Sox organization? Life as a fifth outfielder? He's an AAAA guy and a fourth outfielder at best. Players like Moss come and go and I'm sure we can even find someone better (should we bring Bobby Kielty back? I wouldn't say no).
- The Hansen era is over. He had so much potential and we've all been waiting for him to show us it. It all goes back to when he was first called up, though. It was way too early. It really hurt him mentally. He had a good, high 90s fastball and a very good high 80s/low 90s slider that was just sick. But, the good thing about all this, is that we have Daniel Bard waiting in the wings who may have even better stuff.
- We bit the bullet on $7M. That's chump change in baseball nowadays.
- I think all the fans in Red Sox Nation are really going to like Jason Bay. Yeah, he's no Manny (everyone will say that), but he's a damn good baseball player. And he's got the right attitude, which is one of the best parts of this deal. We're never going to hear, "Jason being Jason" and that's a good thing. Jason, like JD Drew or Bill Mueller is a professional that goes about his job the way he's supposed to. No antics (although I wouldn't be opposed to a high-five double play once in awhile).
- Just think of the lineup Bay is going to be in versus what he left in Pittsburgh. It's a little different with David Ortiz batting in front (or behind) you and guys like Drew, Mike Lowell, Kevin Youkilis and Dustin Pedroia filling in the holes. He's going to be surrounded by talent, which should only help him. When in the 'Burgh he was the guy pitchers need to worry about. Now he's going to be 2nd or 3rd on the radar.
- Speaking of lineup, what are we looking at? I'm thinking the lineup should look something like this:
- Look at this outfield now: Bay in LF, Jacoby Ellsbury in CF and Drew in RF. That is sexy, folks. Bay isn't a gold glove left fielder, but he's probably right up there with Drew's talents, and we've seen how good Drew is in Fenway's right field. The only real weakness defensively I see in this team now is Julio Lugo at shortstop. And let's face it, he's better than Derek Jeter.
- At least we didn't give up Michael Bowden or Justin Masterson, right? I was worried the Marlins would really want to fleece us and try to take one of those guys. We lose Hansen and Moss, but we were able to get through a trade deadline without losing any real prospects in this whole deal.
- One last thought for now: Please Mr. Bay, make Theo look like a genius...
Pedroia, 2BSince Drew was so good in the No. 3 spot, let's just put him back there and slide Ortiz down. I just hope Ortiz wants to move because without Manny it seems like he'd fit best at the fourth spot. Let Drew or Bay get on in front of him and do some damage then.
Youkilis, 1B
Drew, RF
Ortiz, DH
Bay, LF
Lowell, 3B
Varitek, C
Cora/Lowrie/Whatever, SS
Ellsbury, CF
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We didn't give up Bard, Masterson, Bowden, Buch, Anderson, Reddick, Kalish, and the other top prospects
And that’s awesome. And, yeah, Bay/Ells/Drew is a very sexy OF.
It's the same old story. Boy finds girl, boy loses girl, girl finds boy, boy forgets girl, boy remembers girl, girls dies in a tragic blimp accident over the Orange Bowl on New Year's Day.
by MerryGoByeBye on Jul 31, 2008 7:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
All the top prospects staying = great news.
by Randy Booth on Jul 31, 2008 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good summary
I agree with pretty much everything you said. The biggest part of this was keeping our top guys. At best, Bay will be a great pickup for us; at worst, it’s addition by subtraction. But I think it’ll be a lot more than that.
by soxaholic on Jul 31, 2008 7:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pirate Fan
I’m a Pirate fan, and I’m going to have to disagree with this:
Just think of the lineup Bay is going to be in versus what he left in Pittsburgh. It’s a little different with David Ortiz batting in front (or behind) you and guys like Drew, Mike Lowell, Kevin Youkilis and Dustin Pedroia filling in the holes. He’s going to be surrounded by talent, which should only help him. When in the ‘Burgh he was the guy pitchers need to worry about. Now he’s going to be 2nd or 3rd on the radar.
Totally disagree. The Pirates have scored 5 less runs than the Sox all season, 538-533, without the DH. Yea, naturally, as a Red Sox fan, you’re just inclined to think the Buccos suck in every facet, but the truth is, our lineup is as good as anyone’s. Unfortunately, our pitching staff is something children shouldn’t be forced to see.
The point is, Bay was the best hitter on a good hitting team that, at one point, included Nady, McLouth, Doumit, and Adam LaRoche, and former batting champ Freddy Sanchez. The idea that he was not in a lineup with talent is 100% incorrect.
Another thing, it isn’t as if Bay hasn’t been in tough spots. Because of the horrendous pitching, he, along with the rest of our lineup, has been playing catch-up almost all season. It’d be easy to them to pack it in, but Bay has picked up the slack, and kept the Pirates within reach or respectability by grinding out quality ABs, even in meaningless games. Is that the same as playing for a pennant? No, but it is not as if he was a crappy hitter in an average lineup who hasn’t faced much pressure all season.
The fact that the Sox have better pitching, and a short LF porch is the only thing that changes for Jason Bay.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Jul 31, 2008 7:32 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Good post. Thanks for pointing that out.
by Randy Booth on Jul 31, 2008 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing is
Your line-up is good this season, but look at last season, when you guys scored 724 runs. That’s sort of awful. But I agree that this season you guys had a nasty offense, with McLouth, Nady, Doumit and Bay really hitting the ball. I guess he’ll be really protected in the line-up if he hits ahead of Ortiz, who is one of the best players in the league.
What else can a Bucs fan tell us about Bay, and do you think he can have better numbers playing at Fenway, with the monster?
It's the same old story. Boy finds girl, boy loses girl, girl finds boy, boy forgets girl, boy remembers girl, girls dies in a tragic blimp accident over the Orange Bowl on New Year's Day.
by MerryGoByeBye on Jul 31, 2008 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
I see the HR totals being around Manny’s CURRENT numbers. Will Bay hit 40+? Probably not, but I’m not sure Manny was going to be doing much of that in the future, either.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Jul 31, 2008 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
The Dodgers got the shit part of the deal, IMO, getting a 2 month rental of a 67867 old player (HOFer, sure).
It's the same old story. Boy finds girl, boy loses girl, girl finds boy, boy forgets girl, boy remembers girl, girls dies in a tragic blimp accident over the Orange Bowl on New Year's Day.
by MerryGoByeBye on Aug 1, 2008 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LA's ownership is not so clever
Look at the Andruw Jones contract.
by RickD on Aug 1, 2008 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah
They’re fucking what could be a great team (Martin, Loney, Kemp, Either, Hu, LaRoche, Billingsley, Kershaw, Broxton). Which is sort of sad, because they’re wasting talent.
It's the same old story. Boy finds girl, boy loses girl, girl finds boy, boy forgets girl, boy remembers girl, girls dies in a tragic blimp accident over the Orange Bowl on New Year's Day.
by MerryGoByeBye on Aug 1, 2008 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Bay may hit way more doubles thanks to the monster.
It's the same old story. Boy finds girl, boy loses girl, girl finds boy, boy forgets girl, boy remembers girl, girls dies in a tragic blimp accident over the Orange Bowl on New Year's Day.
by MerryGoByeBye on Aug 1, 2008 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for posting
Bay has picked up the slack, and kept the Pirates within reach or respectability by grinding out quality ABs, even in meaningless games.
Sounds good to me. I like grinders.
I think the Bucs did pretty well here. I think all four guys will be solid major leaguers. I like Moss. He’s a gamer, and he can hit. He doesn’t have Bay’s power, but he’ll be a doubles machine. Hansen should figure it out. His stuff is excellent, and once you take him out of the spotlight he should build some confidence. I think Laroche is the best of the bunch. He never got a real shot in LA, but from everything I hear he can hit. Morris looks intriguing: first rounder in 2006, already gotten TJ out of the way, still young and throwing rocks in A ball.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jul 31, 2008 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're Cautiously Optimistic
15 going on 16 losing seasons does that to you.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Jul 31, 2008 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Keep Manny you say and get the draft picks? OK. That might be doable. But then you are essentially writing off this season. “
why??? Why does keeping a .300 30+ homerun guy mean we’re “writing off this season”? Keeping manny is not going to keep us out of the playoffs unless its a matter of trading him for somthing we’re severely lacking like some bullpen power. This is not the most volotile manny has been with his many trade demand escapades, and he continued to be the most consistent player in all of baseball after those times.
by spinz on Jul 31, 2008 7:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The cancer. It’s never been worse. That’s why.
by Randy Booth on Jul 31, 2008 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i just dont buy that. Manny wasnt going to threaten not playing and keep causing fights; it wouldv completely trashed his free agent value. If manny falls apart and bay carries this team theo wont just look like a genius, he’l look like a wizard.
by spinz on Jul 31, 2008 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at the way this team was playing
I’m not saying that it was all about Manny, but I’m sure that his issue messed with the team. Maybe they needed a change, I don’t know. But I’m guessing this is more about the FO wanting Manny gone.
It's the same old story. Boy finds girl, boy loses girl, girl finds boy, boy forgets girl, boy remembers girl, girls dies in a tragic blimp accident over the Orange Bowl on New Year's Day.
by MerryGoByeBye on Jul 31, 2008 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats exactly what its about, they just really really wanted him gone.
i think what really makes me mad about this trade, is even the vague notion that the reason this team has been falling short lately has somthing to do with manny’s “aura”, and that hes making all the flowers wilt and rain clouds appear. Without manny this season we are scraping at the barrel in 3rd place. Really it kind of reminds me of all the talk about the yankees needing to get rid of a-rod because of his “bad vibe”. But when push came to shove a-rod was a production machine and had he been on better teams he’d have rings.
This would be a different story for me if they traded manny for players who addressed specific needs for the team. But no they traded him because they just wanted him gone.
by spinz on Jul 31, 2008 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"They just really really wanted him gone."
Manny wanted to be gone too. Probably more than they wanted to get rid of him.
I’m sure Manny could’ve had Boras call Theo over the AS Break and say “Hey bud. I am letting you know, this Manny thing will get really ugly. Trust me. We can avoid this whole mess if you’ll sign this agreement saying you won’t exercise the option, and Manny will play out the season.”
But no. Instead, Manny runs to the press and starts running his mouth, then starts doggin it. That is economic terrorism, plain and simple.
And the stupidest thing is, he probably cost himself money.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jul 31, 2008 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lugo: the straw that stirs the drink
Look at how badly the Sox are playing right now. The Sox are 61-48 (.560 WP). When Lugo got hurt, they were 55-40 (.579 WP). Since he has been on the DL, the Sox have struggled. They are 6-8 (.429 WP) without Lugo.
He can’t come back soon enough! :-)
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jul 31, 2008 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what is their record since the let go of Tavarez?
I think his departure somehow set this all in motion. Bring back Julian!!
"You know," Girardi said, shrugging his shoulders, "it didn't work."
( Joe Girardi on pitching to Manny Ramirez with first base open)
by MassGal on Jul 31, 2008 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I miss Hatchet Face
I’m sure Manny did too.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jul 31, 2008 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hoolian
He wasn’t very smart, but he had the looks, and the team is much less prettier now.
It's the same old story. Boy finds girl, boy loses girl, girl finds boy, boy forgets girl, boy remembers girl, girls dies in a tragic blimp accident over the Orange Bowl on New Year's Day.
by MerryGoByeBye on Aug 1, 2008 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont know why it HAS to be so extreme – someone has to fall apart or this move has to make the FO look like geniuses. It was a bad situation & probably worse than the fans saw. Manny made his bed; who wants to hear that crap day in & day out? Manny rarely spoke to the press but all of a sudden his missives were daily.
Baseball is a game but its also a business – there was no professional courtesy or respect. Letting this go on would keep a swirl of controversy – if the Sox lost w/Manny then its bc of Manny & the FO having no b*lls; letting the inmates run the asylum, etc; if they won with Manny then he walks the FO looks lame & arent thinking of the fan base. The Sox won in 2004 & 2007 which is great & should be enough for us for now but let’s not get hysterical bc Manny is gone. The fans were pretty unhappy with Rocket when it seemed he was mailing it in his last seasons w/the Sox & we dont know how Manny would behave – his behavior suddenly became erratic in nature.
It’s funny looking back how so many thought Crisp was going to get out of pocket over the CF situation…
"You know," Girardi said, shrugging his shoulders, "it didn't work."
( Joe Girardi on pitching to Manny Ramirez with first base open)
by MassGal on Jul 31, 2008 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but heres the thing, it wouldnt have gone on. It just reached its climax because of the trade deadline. This thing passes with manny still in a sox uniform and we probably never hear about it again until hes declining arbitration and signing with another team.
by spinz on Jul 31, 2008 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how do you know this would blow over?!
why risk it? why not get something rather than let him walk & get propsects? Bay has ML experience.
The ball was in Manny’s court; he waived the no trade clause; maybe it was machismo or something but once the Sox called his bluff he had no choice…I loved the Manny/Papi duo but as my mom would say ” time out for boolchit”.
"You know," Girardi said, shrugging his shoulders, "it didn't work."
( Joe Girardi on pitching to Manny Ramirez with first base open)
by MassGal on Jul 31, 2008 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"time out for boolchit".
indeed.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jul 31, 2008 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This would’v blown over because manny is crazy but not dumb. He, or someone around him, knows that if hes perceived as destroying this teams playoff chances this year, then his market price is going to be slim pickings. I’d rather have his production for 2 months, 2 prospects to deal for someone else, and then 2 draft picks after losing many, than jason bay.
by spinz on Jul 31, 2008 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His market price already took a major hit.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jul 31, 2008 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
clearly it did, but part of that was because the sox came off as so desperate. as we’ve seen manny do so many times, he was probably going to repent later this week, and continue bringing his game to the plate. If he didnt he would be the black plague of the hot stove.
by spinz on Jul 31, 2008 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Manny, is that you?
Too late to change your mind now…
Almost every article or newscast refers to Manny as “disgruntled” or says something like ” Red Sox get rid of Ramirez” – that isnt a cool but he brought it on himself. Believe me, I am all about fighting the power & stopping tha man from holding peeps down but in this case mgt might be right..plus at this level Manny had a huge influence over his destiny & besides his behavior is diff than in the past Stuff like calling Hargrove after he signed with Sox saying he wanted out or other requests; were mild compared to this- he seemed angry.
"You know," Girardi said, shrugging his shoulders, "it didn't work."
( Joe Girardi on pitching to Manny Ramirez with first base open)
by MassGal on Jul 31, 2008 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems to me , many teams backed away from Manny because of behavioral baggage- the Sox were picking up some $$ and teams were still like “meh”. Manny was sabotaging himself but didnt seem to care. I am sure he will get a good deal but am sure his foolishness wont be forgotten by GM’s. I am not knocking Manny, am a huge fan but its obvious he was more than an annoyance. WIthout Schilling blabbing, the Sox seem like a likeable. easygoing team ( Youk’s whining aside) – Manny was casting a bad shadow & stuff like that is contagious & counterproductive.
I just think there was something that we, the fans, didnt see.
"You know," Girardi said, shrugging his shoulders, "it didn't work."
( Joe Girardi on pitching to Manny Ramirez with first base open)
by MassGal on Jul 31, 2008 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Schilling talking
He talks a lot of crap, but Manny somehow succeeded in being even more annoying the days before his trade.
It's the same old story. Boy finds girl, boy loses girl, girl finds boy, boy forgets girl, boy remembers girl, girls dies in a tragic blimp accident over the Orange Bowl on New Year's Day.
by MerryGoByeBye on Jul 31, 2008 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s not true, Manny took himself out twice in the past week or so because of a “bum knee”, which came back negative both times, and Theo was considering disciplinary action if he had done it a 3rd time, so even they weren’t buying it this time
by Realistic on Aug 1, 2008 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
great metaphor
but Manny really was not the problem with the offense.
Argument by metaphor is not really all that powerful.
by RickD on Aug 1, 2008 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with your summary...
Just want to add one more point….
Jason Bay is very tradeable in the off season if the Sox decide to make a move on Teixeira or Holliday.
Plus we can use the money on another big time arm like Sabathia, Sheets, Darvish or Bedard.
by SoxAcumen on Jul 31, 2008 7:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The new Lineup
I really don’t see Drew and Papi next to each other in the lineup (opposing teams would greatly benefit using a lefty specialist against two good lefties in a row). Look for Papi to remain in the 3 spot, Bay at 4, and then Lowell and Drew. Essentially Bay is replacing Manny’s spot in every way. But I could be wrong…I did firmly believe Manny was going to stay, but we all saw how that played out.
Also, Bay played for the Vermont Expos (The Montreal Expos Single-A short season affiliate), which means he should be very popular to a small, but very important part of Red Sox Nation.
"Well let me just quote the late-great Colonel Sanders, who said...'I'm too drunk to taste this chicken.' "
-Ricky Bobby
by nepats108 on Jul 31, 2008 8:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I feel like Bay in the 3 or 4 spot would put too much pressure on him right now.
by Randy Booth on Jul 31, 2008 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Extra Bases
by soxaholic on Jul 31, 2008 8:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Trail, B.C., Canada.
We’ve got ourselves a mountain boy. I like him already.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jul 31, 2008 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Randy's lineup, with one change.
Flip Drew and Youk.
Pedroia, 2B
Drew, RF
Youkilis, 1B
Ortiz, DH
Bay, LF
Lowell, 3B
Varitek, C
Cora/Lowrie/Whatever, SS
Ellsbury, CF
Then if/when Ellsbury turns it around, and next year:
Ellsbury, CF
Pedroia, 2B
Ortiz, DH
Youkilis, 1B
Bay, LF
Drew, RF
Lowell, 3B
Varitek, C
Cora/Lowrie/Whatever, SS
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jul 31, 2008 8:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Another thing that needs to be said
His name sounds wonderful with the accent, just give a try. It’s not as good as Jed Lowrie, but still sounds very sexy. :)
It's the same old story. Boy finds girl, boy loses girl, girl finds boy, boy forgets girl, boy remembers girl, girls dies in a tragic blimp accident over the Orange Bowl on New Year's Day.
by MerryGoByeBye on Jul 31, 2008 9:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Exsqueeze me?
Baking powder?
Accent?
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jul 31, 2008 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In other news
LAA must think they are still playing the Sox. They lead MFY 10-2 in the 6th – a few 3 run HR’s…
"You know," Girardi said, shrugging his shoulders, "it didn't work."
( Joe Girardi on pitching to Manny Ramirez with first base open)
by MassGal on Jul 31, 2008 9:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think if the yankees were beating up the angels tonight would be too much to handle.
by spinz on Jul 31, 2008 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
emotional surgery
Its gonna be OK
"You know," Girardi said, shrugging his shoulders, "it didn't work."
( Joe Girardi on pitching to Manny Ramirez with first base open)
by MassGal on Jul 31, 2008 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
12-3 now
The Pudge trade will backfire. Molina is much better at handling pitchers.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jul 31, 2008 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Angels are damned good
They were damned good before John Lackey came back from the DL to be the best pitcher in the AL.
Right now I would pencil them in for the WS.
by RickD on Aug 1, 2008 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jason Bay
A (redsox) nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Two things, I reckon Bay is fair value considering everything….and I love manny(we are talking mancrush love)
The other thing is the lineup. And I’ll say this for the umpteenth time, Drew should hit 2nd while Dusty is leading off. Put Youk 3rd, Ortiz 4th and the rest just writes itself (with apologies to Bart Simpson)
by sydneysox on Jul 31, 2008 9:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
off topic a bit
I loved Iverson too; loved his hustle & how he played all out when he was with Philly but his foolishness/selfishness & immaturity got old fast. I imagine he still plays with his all in Denver but ya know what – its kinda sad to see superstar’s get bounced like that.
I make a lot of Jeter jokes but he is a professional. Its good to see a player spend his entire career with the on team..I know Jeter has years to go but dont see Yanks/Jeter going thru this divorce court saga
"You know," Girardi said, shrugging his shoulders, "it didn't work."
( Joe Girardi on pitching to Manny Ramirez with first base open)
by MassGal on Jul 31, 2008 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A Hall of a Trade
Manny goes to LA, that can’t help Ortiz. They’re happy in the Bronx tonight.
Pudge Rodriquez, Griffey Junior and Manny—three certain Hall of Famers traded in less than 24 hours. Elias help me, wonder if that’s ever happened before.
by SportsLifer on Jul 31, 2008 9:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
im not sure pudge is a certain hall of famer….but yeah its been a weird 24 hours.
by spinz on Jul 31, 2008 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And all over the hill, past their prime…
by Randy Booth on Jul 31, 2008 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
with a 10-2 score against the MFY- they aint so happy
"You know," Girardi said, shrugging his shoulders, "it didn't work."
( Joe Girardi on pitching to Manny Ramirez with first base open)
by MassGal on Jul 31, 2008 9:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Am I the only one
Who really just can’t wait to see the line-up? Why can’t Tito tells us something?
It's the same old story. Boy finds girl, boy loses girl, girl finds boy, boy forgets girl, boy remembers girl, girls dies in a tragic blimp accident over the Orange Bowl on New Year's Day.
by MerryGoByeBye on Jul 31, 2008 9:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I am anxious as well
Not sure why I am up & checking news,its not as if the Sox are gonna play today or announce the lineup. I am looking forward to Friday’s game.
"You know," Girardi said, shrugging his shoulders, "it didn't work."
( Joe Girardi on pitching to Manny Ramirez with first base open)
by MassGal on Jul 31, 2008 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm also very, VERY anxious
I have 2 doubts/fears: What will the line-up look like? Will Jason Bay get a hit on his debut (which would be big, because of the pressure and all)? I wish this game was today…
It's the same old story. Boy finds girl, boy loses girl, girl finds boy, boy forgets girl, boy remembers girl, girls dies in a tragic blimp accident over the Orange Bowl on New Year's Day.
by MerryGoByeBye on Jul 31, 2008 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Bay needs to get off to a good start. He should get a nice reception tomorrow.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jul 31, 2008 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably the biggest reception of his life.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jul 31, 2008 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had a dream
that the house i had moved out of 4 years ago was really turned into a mansion, with everything you could wish for.
hopefully this wont be a metaphor for the next couple years.
He who hesitates is tagged out between first and second base.
by BoSox415 on Jul 31, 2008 9:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I had a dream
that Michael Jordan was raking up leaves in my front yard- just thought I’d share
"You know," Girardi said, shrugging his shoulders, "it didn't work."
( Joe Girardi on pitching to Manny Ramirez with first base open)
by MassGal on Jul 31, 2008 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is rapidly turning into the greatest thread in OTM history.
"no1 has time to read your long comments, are you writing a book?"
by britsoxfan on Aug 1, 2008 4:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you know what
The offensive difference between Manny and Bay is more than made up for by the defensive difference.
by CKremer on Jul 31, 2008 9:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
if you believe in that kind of thing, ya.
by CKremer on Jul 31, 2008 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
manny
the only good thing out of this is that we got some1 for manny a decent hitter. If you think about it, manny wouldnt come back next year to boston and would be a free agent so we wouldnt get any1 for him then and would have to give up prospects to get some1 almost as good as manny.
It’s all over now jason bay is here and lets pray he steps up in a big way
by BostonNation on Jul 31, 2008 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
love how bloggers
are experts on what’s going on in the clubhouse.
by RickD on Aug 1, 2008 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s no secret. Reports lately have said players are sick of Manny’s antics. That’s enough for me.
by Randy Booth on Aug 1, 2008 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"reports"
I thought it had been clear for several years that reporters were tired of Manny. Whether players themselves felt that way has never been clear.
Several years ago, Manny stopped talking to reporters. When he did that, the press turned on him. And so they started saying nasty things about him – that he pretended to be injured, that he struck out intentionally, etc. I’m calling bs on all of that.
by RickD on Aug 1, 2008 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
cant have it both ways
Manny didnt speak to the press then suddenly uses the media as his medium to make an arse of himself. Look, I rooted for Manny but his behavior was too much this time. There is no trade of Manny doesnt agree to go; no one ran him out of town.
"You know," Girardi said, shrugging his shoulders, "it didn't work."
( Joe Girardi on pitching to Manny Ramirez with first base open)
by MassGal on Aug 1, 2008 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reports for players to be upset about Manny don’t need the press to talk with Manny. If someone tells a reporter, “Hey, this guy is getting old”—then hey, what do you know? That’s a bit of information and Manny doesn’t need to comment at all.
by Randy Booth on Aug 1, 2008 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like the deal myself, I feel we should’ve adressed the bullpen with a middle relief guy, masterson may come into his own and pitch great out of the pen (because his stuff is sick wicked and nasty) and Okajima may turn it around (he has been pitching well lately) BUT, those are hopes and prayers and I think we could’ve possibly gotten a little more. Now to the trade itself, well I like it, we’re mixing things up in a big way here and I see more positives than negatives. Wont bore you by saying the same things that’ve already been said. The way we’ve been playing we need a big shake up and something to rattle these guys up a little bit. It in a way has put a lot of pressure on Jason Bay’s shoulders but he’s a proven hitter and i think will fit in well(he’s only 25 or 26 too, plays well…INK HIM UP!). I agree with your original roster posted with Drew hitting three, he obviously feels more comfortable there than hitting 6th, and when swinging the bat well, is arguably the best overall hitter on the team. Let’s Go Sox and turn this ship around
by Becker17 on Jul 31, 2008 11:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agree on the bullpen
That’s another frustrating aspect about the whole thing, that our biggest weakness (bullpen) got overshadowed by the Manny freakout show.
However, Papi > Drew.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Jul 31, 2008 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry, im an idiot, he’s 30, i don’t know what i was thinking
by Becker17 on Jul 31, 2008 11:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
reminds me of Mo Vaughn's departure
Jason Bay is never going to be the hitter that was in his peak. I really don’t see a baseball reason for dumping Manny now as opposed to in the offseason. I know the Sox were never going to pick up his option because they think he’s not worth $20 million/year, but if that was the logic, why pick up the rest of this season’s salary? If they are going to pay the salary anyway, why not keep him on the team?
Is anybody seriously contending that Bay is as good of a hitter as Manny?
I think this thing got personal with Henry and that’s why he’s traded away his best hitter. Seems a bit stupid to do this in the middle of a penant race.
But since CHB says he’s a “cancer in the clubhouse” it must be true.
So just like Mo Vaughn and Carl Everett, we have another player run out of town by the Globe.
It makes me ill.
by RickD on Aug 1, 2008 12:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
1. No, Bay is not the hitter that Manny is.
2. So, how does a commenter on a blog know “things got personal with Henry”?
3. I really, really doubt that the Boston Globe is the reason Manny Ramirez was traded to the Dodgers. I’m pretty sure the Globe put the ball through Bill Buckner’s legs, too.
by Randy Booth on Aug 1, 2008 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If anyone get any info if Bay will play tomorrow
Please, post as soon as possible here, because it’s killing me. I also don’t know why we didn’t see a press conference tonight…
It's the same old story. Boy finds girl, boy loses girl, girl finds boy, boy forgets girl, boy remembers girl, girls dies in a tragic blimp accident over the Orange Bowl on New Year's Day.
by MerryGoByeBye on Aug 1, 2008 1:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I happen to know Jason personally and played with him...
first time commenter, i actually signed up just to leave this comment. I happen to be from the same town as Bay , im literally about a block away form wear he grew up and yes I played basebally with Bay growing up. Actually, true story, the first ball that i caught in little league came off of his bat and he hit it soo harder he literally knocked me over and i went head over heals :) I think he hit 4 hr’s that game. He was a freak and we always thought hed be something special one day. Which takes us to today. Being a blue jays fan, this deal is hard for me. I know Jason and have been follwing his career since i was 8 years old. I know his mother, he help me with my unemplyment insurance when i tore my acl playing football. He’s one of my fav players for obvious reason being fomr a small 15,000 person town in bc, canada, not exactly a hotbed for mlb talent, but hockey is another story :) Anyways, liek i said im a huge Jays fan and now this has me caught up between wanting him to do well but not wanting the Red Sox to do well :) SOrry guys, can’t help it, Jays fan here and your in the division :) But anyways Sox fans, you guys are getting a world class person. His character is second to none, he’s as level headed as a pro athlete gets, trust me, i know him. He will be a perfect fit in the locker room. With the short porch in the left, look to see the hr totals climb in a hurry, atleast once his nerves have settled within the coming weeks. Don’t forget he has about 20 more hr’s on the road this year than he does at pnc. Now that he’s in a right hand hitting friendly filedt, sky’s the limit for Jason. Nice to see him this successfull and I hope he can proove all the naysayers wrong. Trus tme when I say this guys…. your gonna be jsut fine…. until Halladay gets some hitting :)
by Whiteboyinthebuilding on Aug 1, 2008 1:36 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
sorry for the spelling mistakes, still alittle excited about the trade
noticed i even spelled baseball wrong haha, typing too fast i guess
by Whiteboyinthebuilding on Aug 1, 2008 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
30 more hr's total at pnc, not this year... ahha another mistake
but anywasy, the point of this post (and yes it was only supposed to be 1 post ) was to give you guys another perspective on Jason, so if you have any questions, im your man to ask…
by Whiteboyinthebuilding on Aug 1, 2008 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, man
Jason Bay always looked like a really cool guy, I’m happy to see that he really is.
It's the same old story. Boy finds girl, boy loses girl, girl finds boy, boy forgets girl, boy remembers girl, girls dies in a tragic blimp accident over the Orange Bowl on New Year's Day.
by MerryGoByeBye on Aug 1, 2008 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he actually really is a kewl guys. Quiet, very quiet. Kepp to himself kinda guy, opposite of myself :) He’s not gonna win you any bad boy of the year awards but he’s paid to hit and catch a ball :)
by Whiteboyinthebuilding on Aug 1, 2008 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could be dead wrong about this
But he remind me of JD Drew. In everything, really. Don’t seem to talk much, nice guy, hard worker, great ball player… Of course I don’t know either JD Drew or Jason Bay, so I could be talk crap here.
It's the same old story. Boy finds girl, boy loses girl, girl finds boy, boy forgets girl, boy remembers girl, girls dies in a tragic blimp accident over the Orange Bowl on New Year's Day.
by MerryGoByeBye on Aug 1, 2008 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"i could be talking", not talk
I’m sleepy, so my brain is not working that well. :)
It's the same old story. Boy finds girl, boy loses girl, girl finds boy, boy forgets girl, boy remembers girl, girls dies in a tragic blimp accident over the Orange Bowl on New Year's Day.
by MerryGoByeBye on Aug 1, 2008 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well i don’t personally know JD Drew either but i can speak on Bay and ya they woudl be similar. Ill put it to you this way. Bay was playing for a shitty team for a few years now… he’d continue to play for that shitty team for another 10 years within saying a word about it. Just glad he gets paid to play baseball. He’d spend a 20 year career with a team that never made the playoffs once and he’d be too classy to say a word about it. So if that’s like JD Drew then i’d have to say yes :)
by Whiteboyinthebuilding on Aug 1, 2008 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
JD Drew changed teams a lot, and had that thing with the Phillies
But he looks like a real cool dude. You know, he’s been through a lot last season with us, never quite complained, and stepped up this season when we needed him. Not a lot of guys could have the season he’s having after such a rough first one. Boston is a hard place to play. Ask Julio Lugo. :)
It's the same old story. Boy finds girl, boy loses girl, girl finds boy, boy forgets girl, boy remembers girl, girls dies in a tragic blimp accident over the Orange Bowl on New Year's Day.
by MerryGoByeBye on Aug 1, 2008 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ya, that's gonna be something that Jason needs to adjust to
being under pressure. I mean, all players are under pressure, 30 thousnd ppl is still 30 thousnad ppl, it doesnt matter where it is. BUt of course, Boston is a mecca for the game and and things are under more scrutiny, clearly. Im sure he will take a couple weeks to calm down and be himself. Getting throw into left field replacing a future hall of famer won’t be easy, for anyone, but I think Jason will be jsut fine. But one thing i realized is this will be the first team in his baseball life that he won’t be the best player. Even in little league he was the best at 10 yrs old and other kids were 12, he still dominated. I remember that he was on Bella Tire (little league team name) and they killed us every time. He pitched every second game and played ss fot the other. He had like 20 strikeouts a game and every hit was a homerun :) I don’t think he ever struck out. I remember being in left field and at 10 years old i would jsut lean agaisnt the fence when he came up to bat and every pitch woudl end up flying 50 feet over my head. I dont think i moved once after that very first ball he hit right at me, every other ball was soo far over the fence it was pointless. I remember we had a batting cage past the left felid fence and kids woudl warm up and practice pitching or hitting of course and if he came up, theyd move out of the way cause cahnces are, if he pulled the ball it was coming right at them :) Use to almost be funny and Bay was only like 11 12 years old, But anyways, this post is getting long… to sum up what i was saying. he was best player on his team then. He was the best player on his team throughout highschool , he was the best player at Gonzaga, he was th ebest player on the team in rookie ball for the mets organization, the best on the team for the padres organization and obviously hte best Pittsburgh Pirate. Now he’s jsut another player on a crazy Red Sox team. I’m curious to see of that helps him or not. Not having the pressure ot be the guy who has to beat the other =team by himself. Not having to swing at everything because the pitcher isn’t gonna let him be the one to beat him. Time will only tell :)
by Whiteboyinthebuilding on Aug 1, 2008 2:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i wouldn't worry too much about it
He’s white after all. The Boston media never goes after white baseball players.
by RickD on Aug 1, 2008 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What?!
You really think that or was it a joke? Because I can’t tell.
It's the same old story. Boy finds girl, boy loses girl, girl finds boy, boy forgets girl, boy remembers girl, girls dies in a tragic blimp accident over the Orange Bowl on New Year's Day.
by MerryGoByeBye on Aug 1, 2008 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh? They ripped JD Drew apart last year before he even joined the team and again when he struggled….pretty sure he’s white
by Realistic on Aug 1, 2008 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this isnt the time to use race
aside: ever see the episode of snoop dog’s old show Televizzle in which he reached into his pocket & pulled out an actual race card..it was funny …anyway…dont use race here bc it minimizes legitimate racial issues. No one denies race has been an issue in Boston, ( even Gammons mentioned the racial makeup of the city as a factor when there was Bond talk) . There have been racial issues in other parts of New England; the south; the US – the entire world…but it doesnt apply here- that fallback of “Boston is prejudiced” is just tired & shows the user has no true argument to put forth
"You know," Girardi said, shrugging his shoulders, "it didn't work."
( Joe Girardi on pitching to Manny Ramirez with first base open)
by MassGal on Aug 1, 2008 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is still a really bad deal...
Whether Ramirez is a clubhouse cancer or was demanding a trade. He has been doing this since 2001. The Red Sox even put him on waivers in 2003-2004, he came back to have a great 2004 season.
I can understand the need to trade Ramirez, but paying the Dodgers $7 mil for the rest of his contract?!? The Dodger should had thrown in Kemp or Loney so Boston would get two players for Manny for giving up three players. This is just a bad deal. Even though watching the Sox losing 2-3 to the yanks and being sweeped by the Angels was painful, and Manny's antics didn't help. I thought he would change his mood in a week or two.Bay has to have a stellar time in a Red Sox uniform in order to show this trade worked. Boston gave up alot to move this trade. It should had been 1:2:1 trade with the Dodgers giving up the two prospects for Manny, which is still ridiculous, but a 1:4:1 and still paying Manny's salary!!!As much as Manny has not had clutch hits, he also had some key hits in the past, like last year ALDS.
On Manny’s future, I am guessing he will be a Met next year. I would say the Yankees, but they already have a glut of outfielders, even with Matsui injured.
Another team I can think of, because they maybe willing to pay my guesstimate of his payday, $12-15 million, is Cleveland for 1-2 years. Even with Boras as his free agent, he is not going to get $20 million.by superferret on Aug 1, 2008 2:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
and that's the under-reported aspect here
Manny was not only a great regular-season hitter, he was one of the best postseason hitters of all time. He didn’t accidentally win the World Series MVP. Manny is a hitter who is good enough to hit the best pitchers in pressure situations. Other hitters with similar regular season numbers have become notorious for their inability to do so (see Rodriguez, Alex).
by RickD on Aug 1, 2008 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Foulke could have just as easily been the MVP of the series
no one is diminishing what Manny did but its hard to not see that it was time to go based on mostly outward actions of Manny himself.
I have no idea how Bay will perform & no one is saying Bay is Manny. Its like saying Manny is another ( insert MLB player here). Manny is gone; Bay is here- it is what it is.
"You know," Girardi said, shrugging his shoulders, "it didn't work."
( Joe Girardi on pitching to Manny Ramirez with first base open)
by MassGal on Aug 1, 2008 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My 2 cents
everything has been said, but I thought I would throw in my thoughts, bulletpoint form:
- Kinda odd deal for LA. They already have a crowded OF. If they were smart they would bench Pierre and Jones, in which case it make some sense I guess because Manny is definitely better then either of them, problem is that their not smart, and they will continue to give AB to Jones and Pierre simply because
- People are talking like it is a Bay for Manny subtitute. Every one can agree that Manny is better then Bay, but it’s 1/2 of Manny for 1 and 1/2 years of Bay at a signifantly lower cost giving us some money to allocate else where next year
- I like Moss, but lets be honest, all he ever was going to be was a trade piece for us. He never was going to develop into a starting role, and like someone else mentioned, finding good quality 4th OF really isn’t that hard of a task, and Hansen was going no where with us, I wish him the best, but he needed a change of scenery.
- Yes Manny has done this plenty of times in the past, and I love Manny and still do, but this was worse then in the past. Usually he would make a comment or two, this time he was openly talking to reporter constantly (a rarity for him) trashing on the Sox management. Also, as much as I want to defend him and say the reporters are being unreasonable (which the usually were), unlike other times he was definitely starting to stop caring. I still believe that the hamstring problems in the past were legitiment, but the two “knee” complaints that kept him out the past weeks (which both came back negative) I don’t think were, maybe that’s just my opinion though.
- If you’re into things like sabermetrics, Bay is very slightly less then Manny production wise, and we can agree that he is better defensively: From a poster over at BaseballMusings.com:
“I was just looking at the VORP difference between Manny Ramirez and Jason Bay. Manny’s VORPr (runs per game) is .378, Bay is .309. Over 54 games that mean Manny would generate 20.4 runs over replacement, Bay 16.7. Four runs isn’t much over 1/3 of a season.”
- I hate it when media exaggerates the effect of a distraction or a club house cancer, but I also can’t stand it when some people pretend it doesn’t exist. These are human beings, they can be effected by emotions and distractions just like any of us could have our job performance dip some if we’re working with a co-worker that is annoying us.
I loved Manny, I loved is quirkiness, I loved the Manny being Manny, and I especailly loved his bat. But after everything that has happened the past weeks, the fact that we would need a new LF next year anyways, and the fact the Bay is a great player in himself, I have no complaints with this trade
by Realistic on Aug 1, 2008 12:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I still cant get over the fact that bay is hitting .190 against lefties. Like it or not, Bay’s numbers are going to translate differently in the AL.
by spinz on Aug 1, 2008 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only this season, so it might be a blip
"no1 has time to read your long comments, are you writing a book?"
by britsoxfan on Aug 1, 2008 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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