You the GM: Bring in Bonds?

by britsoxfan on Jun 3, 2008 4:18 AM EDT

So, let's assume that Ortiz is going to be out for more than a month, or worst case scenario, the whole season. Could you stomach avowed Boston-hater* Barry Bonds in a Red Sox uniform, or would you rather stick with internal options, such as Carter and Moss?

Make no mistake. Sports teams are mercenary and there is generally very little they won't do to win. Truly, I'm not sure ethics would be a sticking point for Theo and co. Barry Bonds is still a ferociously good hitter and he would be likely to match Papi's production. He would only cost money.

*Perhaps with good reason. I'm not going to gainsay his personal experiences of racism.

Poll

If Ortiz is going to be out for more than a month, should we sign Barry Bonds?

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I'd wait and see how long Ortiz is going to be out

Moss will likely be called up. He and Casey will get more time. Manny will DH, playing LF only in the NL parks.

If Papi is done for the year, the FO will do what they think is necessary. But I can’t see them taking Bonds, although he would be a good replacement for Papi on the field—the clubhouse is a different story.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jun 3, 2008 7:19 AM EDT 0 recs

I'm with Drugs - wait and see with Papi.

But if Papi is out longer term, Bonds is definitely worth a phone call, to see what he wants. If he’ll accept low-base salary with incentives, I’d say do it.

This team isn’t WS caliber without Papi. Still great pitching, but too many question marks in the lineup.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Jun 3, 2008 8:34 AM EDT 0 recs

Barry Bonds is a disease

I can’t see us ever signing bonds. Yeah he is one of the best bats of all time, but his clubhouse presence is worse then horrible. Worst case scenario Papi is out for the year, the only reason we would sign someone externally is because we think we have a chance at a Championship again. If we sign Bonds he will tear apart our club and we will not get a championship, so what is the point of signing him?

by drabidea on Jun 3, 2008 9:32 AM EDT 0 recs

Serious questions

Who among his team mates, apart from Jeff Kent, thought Bonds was a clubhouse cancer? Kent himself, on the other hand…

Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Jun 3, 2008 9:39 AM EDT up 0 recs

I've always heard they all hated him

Granted, Kent calling Bonds a cancer is a pot-kettle case, but I’d rather give the ABs to some of the up-and-coming Sox.

by RSNexile on Jun 3, 2008 5:57 PM EDT up 0 recs

same

I have heard this as well. Pretty much everyone hates Barry outside of Gary Sheffield.

by SoxAcumen on Jun 3, 2008 7:28 PM EDT up 0 recs

And Sheffield isn't exactly a great character reference, is he?

by RSNexile on Jun 3, 2008 8:37 PM EDT up 0 recs

Hell Yeah!

And we know that the one thing Bonds wants is…......
a World Series VIctory.
Where does he go?

Boston

I’d even urge the thought that he might even come in cheap, but have incentives for more and add a clause…...
NO BS @ all, or you have to pay Boston back 200%

IMHO I’d be okay with it

AJC

by AJCOTE on Jun 3, 2008 10:12 AM EDT 0 recs

Bonds? not that great any more

The Bonds of 2005-2007 was nothing compared to the Bonds of 2001-2004. Of course, the Bonds of 2001-2004 was probably the best 4-year stretch in hitting history, but the point remains that he’s not as good any more.

His slugging percentage was way down and, though he continued to get a lot of walks, that was partly due to the fact he played for the light-hitting Giants.

The lineup w/o Papi is still WS-caliber. The Sox have been scoring 5+ run/game, even with Papi in a slump for the first month. Youk is a legitimate star at the plate now, and I expect Manny to continue to dominate pitching, esp. now that the 500-HR slowdown is over.

The big problem is the bullpen. I don’t trust anybody but Papelbon right now.

by RickD on Jun 3, 2008 12:08 PM EDT 0 recs

Bonds line last season

.276/.480/.565. Let’s kid us not here, people, when he’s playing baseball he is nearly the best one that is. He could give us solid production, and would be another one batting for power. It’s a possibility.

But I agree with Drugs and tommy, we should wait and see what happens with Papi. If he’s out for the year, Bonds would be the best cheap option we could take. I really wouldn’t mind seeing him playing for us.

Walk on, walk on With hope in your heart And you'll never walk alone You'll never walk alone

by MerryGoByeBye on Jun 3, 2008 1:01 PM EDT up 0 recs

Oh, and about taking walks

You might be right that he took more than he would have if he was playing for a better hitting team. But we’re still talking about a guy who OBPed .609 not too long ago, with over 230 BBs.

Walk on, walk on With hope in your heart And you'll never walk alone You'll never walk alone

by MerryGoByeBye on Jun 3, 2008 1:04 PM EDT up 0 recs

average stats can be deceptive

You didn’t mention that Bonds only played 126 games, for one thing.

Did you know that Bonds hasn’t had 100 or more hits since 2004?

A hitter’s decline, once it starts, can be quite precipitous. And that’s doubly true for one who’s been using steroids, but is now off them.

Oh, I forgot, are we supposed to pretend that Bonds didn’t use steroids? If he comes back, is he going to be juiced-up Bonds or post-steroids Bonds? Was he using steroids from 2005-2007? Can we believe that he wasn’t?

And I haven’t even started in on the perjury charges…

by RickD on Jun 4, 2008 1:37 AM EDT up 0 recs

I'd guess a bunch of those games are PH situations too.

But the problem with Barry has been his knees, which have prevented him from playing the field well and often. He’s a DH at this point, for that very reason, and even if he played 5/7 games, it’d be better than running out the lineup we had last night.

It’s not like Bonds invented steroids. He was just the best at using them. And I think it’s pretty safe to assume Bond hasn’t used steroids for a couple years. I guarantee that he was piss-tested more than anyone else in baseball. HGH on the other hand…

We had Canseco for a couple seasons, after everyone knew he was a juicer. I don’t think the sky fell. In fact, we made the playoffs one of those years. And I’d put money on one of the fan favorites on the 1999 – 2006 teams being a juicer. cough trot cough.

And regarding perjury, it’s highly doubtful he’d been hauled off to court before the playoffs.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Jun 4, 2008 9:41 AM EDT up 0 recs

I understand...

the FJM-esque critique of viewing Bonds solely through “soft” characteristics (i.e. character, likeability, clubhouse chemistry, likelihood to be in federal prison, etc…), but I think its a mistake to look at him solely as a puzzle piece based on statistical performance. If you could do that, then no question, the Big Syringe backed by Manny would be excellent – two of the games best hitters ever as a 1-2, ahead of Wheels and Scrappy, and backed by decent power/on-base guys. But, I would worry about Bonds’ effect on Manny, and his chemistry with a young clubhouse.

If Bonds could be added as a component, sure. If not, he’s not worth effing our team up. These guys won a World Series last year. Has Bonds ever done that?

I think I’d rather see Moss/Casey/Manny rotating through the DH.

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jun 3, 2008 1:10 PM EDT 0 recs

Addendum

How much could the Reds ask for in exchange for Griffey, Jr.

Griffey Jr./Ells/Drew OF + Manny at DH?

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jun 3, 2008 1:11 PM EDT up 0 recs

Reds

would ask for Masterson, Lowrie or Buchholz.

by SoxAcumen on Jun 3, 2008 1:15 PM EDT up 0 recs

I'd rather see Adam Dunn, which would also take Masterson and Lowrie

And the Reds would be on crack to ask for Buch in exchange for pretty much everyone not named Jay Bruce or Homer Bailey (Bailey is on me, because I know he doesn’t have the numbers to back that up, but I always liked him).

Walk on, walk on With hope in your heart And you'll never walk alone You'll never walk alone

by MerryGoByeBye on Jun 3, 2008 1:26 PM EDT up 0 recs

doesn't griffey need a WS ring?

I think Griffey is short a ring too, and he’d fill in nicely if Papi is done for the year

by AJCOTE on Jun 3, 2008 1:30 PM EDT up 0 recs

Griffey

Griffey is not that great this year.

by SoxAcumen on Jun 3, 2008 1:33 PM EDT up 0 recs

I think Griffey is about the same as Manny was before he hit 500.

That is to say, pressing, at the plate. Your point is somewhat valid, but I think he’ll get it going and be decent again this year after he gets the 600 monkey off his back.

"Are you a real doctor, or a doctor like Dr. Pepper is a doctor?"

by Allen Chace on Jun 3, 2008 1:38 PM EDT up 0 recs

Manny v. Griffey?

Seriously AC? Manny is a much better pure hitter than Griffey, plus Manny has not had the injuries that Griffey has had in his career.

There are FAR better options than Griffey and Bonds. Both are not good fits for the Sox.

by SoxAcumen on Jun 3, 2008 4:54 PM EDT up 0 recs

All the options would take players we could use in the future

Bonds would only take money.

It's the same old story. Boy finds girl, boy loses girl, girl finds boy, boy forgets girl, boy remembers girl, girls dies in a tragic blimp accident over the Orange Bowl on New Year's Day.

by MerryGoByeBye on Jun 3, 2008 5:45 PM EDT up 0 recs

Exactamundo.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Jun 3, 2008 7:56 PM EDT up 0 recs

NO need to panic

While this is unfortunate, the Sox are fine. I am sure they will just rotate the OFs using Manny as a DH and Lowell, Youk, Casey rotating as DH when Manny is in the field.

The Sox won without Papi hitting well in the start of the season.

Without Papi, the Sox still have a top 5 lineup and we can always depend on our pitching staff to get us through.

Barry Bonds seems like a knee jerk reaction. Where would you put him when Papi comes back?

IMO, if Papi is out for the season, the Sox are probably done. They might make the playoffs but nobody will pitch to Manny if Papi is not around.

by SoxAcumen on Jun 3, 2008 1:20 PM EDT 0 recs

Trade possibilities

I would much rather have the Red Sox pursue far bigger fish than Barry Bonds or Griffey.

Matt Holliday
Jason Bay

Then try and move Coco and Drew next off season. We will have to replace Manny eventually, why not trade our top prospects for a guy like Holliday who will be our future OF.

Trade 1 of Buchholz or Masterson and another top prospect for Holliday.

by SoxAcumen on Jun 3, 2008 1:32 PM EDT 0 recs

Holliday would take too much

And he’s a Rockie, we never know how he may look playing a full season away from Coors. I wouldn’t like Bay as well. The best one I heard about was trading for Teixeira, which wouldn’t make shit for sense but he is a fucking stud.

And since we’re talking crazy, what about Ryan Braun or Prince Fielder? :)

Walk on, walk on With hope in your heart And you'll never walk alone You'll never walk alone

by MerryGoByeBye on Jun 3, 2008 1:43 PM EDT up 0 recs

Hell Yeah!

should trade Coco Crisp, F’Lugo, Timlin, for Chase Utley and Jimmy Rollins[/Yankees’ Fan]

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jun 3, 2008 1:56 PM EDT up 0 recs

The Phillies would do this...

Because

Ellsbury, CF
Rollins, SS
Utley, DH
Ramirez, LF
Youkilis, 1B
Lowell, 3B
Drew, RF
Pedroia, 2B
Varitek, C

would be freakin’ awesome. And maybe we could throw in Tom Brady’s used jockstrap as a present for Arlen Specter?

And yes, I am kidding…

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jun 3, 2008 2:00 PM EDT up 0 recs

Hahahaha

And what about Wake for Cole Hamels, straight up? Because, you know, we’ll need some pitching. :)

The world would be a better place if there were more crazy GMs out there.

It's the same old story. Boy finds girl, boy loses girl, girl finds boy, boy forgets girl, boy remembers girl, girls dies in a tragic blimp accident over the Orange Bowl on New Year's Day.

by MerryGoByeBye on Jun 3, 2008 2:03 PM EDT up 0 recs

Good Year?

It’s the same old story. Boy finds girl, boy loses girl, girl finds boy, boy forgets girl, boy remembers girl, girls dies in a tragic blimp accident over the Orange Bowl on New Year’s Day.

Rock me, sexy Jesus...

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jun 3, 2008 3:39 PM EDT up 0 recs

No, the worst

Best movie ever. :)

It's the same old story. Boy finds girl, boy loses girl, girl finds boy, boy forgets girl, boy remembers girl, girls dies in a tragic blimp accident over the Orange Bowl on New Year's Day.

by MerryGoByeBye on Jun 3, 2008 4:52 PM EDT up 0 recs

how is this crazy?

Holliday is a Boras client, he has said he wants A-Rod money or at least Manny money, which means he will really get Tori Hunters contract at a minimum. The Rockies will not pay Holliday.

The Sox have a top 5 farm system with players other teams consider gems, Masterson, Buccholz, Lowrie, Lars Anderson…etc.

So the Rockies are selling the NL MVP for 07’ and you guys believe that their price will be what? Santana’s take or maybe Haren’s type of compensation?

Ok, so we are willing to move Masterson, Lester and Lowrie for Santana why not the NL MVP? I would simply put Buchholz into a trade bc I believe Lester and Masterson will be better for the Sox down the line. My opinion. But I see no reason why the Rockies and Sox cannot make a deal for Holliday.

IF you are going to waste a player for a has-been, Griffey, why not just pay extra for a true stud.

A package of Lowrie, Masterson or Buccholz and another top prospect gets Holliday and it would be worth it with his bat in Fenway.

by SoxAcumen on Jun 3, 2008 4:52 PM EDT up 0 recs

Concern about Holliday is his home/away split

OPS of 1124 at Coors Field and 773 away this season. Pretty similar over a three-year period. Obviously a stud though.

Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Jun 3, 2008 5:15 PM EDT up 0 recs

Holliday would still take too much

I wouldn’t give Buch for him. As said, Holliday has the home/away split that nearly all the Rockies hitters have. He’s a great player, don’t get me wrong. It’s crazy to trade for him because we don’t really need him while Manny is around, and it would take many top prospects to get him.

I would trade for Atkins or Hawpe. It wouldn’t take as much to get ‘em as it would to get Holliday, and they’re good (not as good, of course). But I really wouldn’t trade for a Rockies hitter, because of the Coors factor.

If I had to trade many top prospects for a hitter who may be available, it would be Teixeira, if we could sign him to a long term contract.

It's the same old story. Boy finds girl, boy loses girl, girl finds boy, boy forgets girl, boy remembers girl, girls dies in a tragic blimp accident over the Orange Bowl on New Year's Day.

by MerryGoByeBye on Jun 3, 2008 5:44 PM EDT up 0 recs

I think you underestimate...

Holliday as a hitter and what it will take to get Atkins, Hawpe, Griffey or Dunn.

Holliday is 07’ NL MVP and you would not trade a prospect who has gotten hammered this season when facing big league pitching? I guess my question is do you believe Buchholz will be a better player over his career than Matt Holliday? I do not.

Sox have an abundance of big league starting pitching and to me, if the Rockies would take Buchholz straight up for Holliday, I am sorry Buchholz will look great in purple.

I would trade anyone outside of Ellsbury, Pedroia and Lester, out of our young talent for Holliday. He will fill J.D. Drews spot in RF after the Sox eventually dump his salary.

09’ – Manny – LF, Ellsbury – CF, Holliday – RF, Papi – DH

Coco and Drew gone this offseason.

Also, why would you rent Teixeira who will not resign with you over Holliday who definately will sign a multi year deal? and you do not have a place for Teixeira as of June 08 unless you move Youk to RF. Then you still have the same problem as you would Holliday, too many OFs and Drew being dumped in the off season.

If Teixeira was going to sign a deal for a discount, he would of signed with the Braves already.

by SoxAcumen on Jun 3, 2008 7:21 PM EDT up 0 recs

Further...

Sorry if this is too wordy, but if we are so concerned about getting a solid bat and not wasting too many prospects, well my second choice would be Jason Bay. He is a much better hitter than people give him credit for and he can take J.D. Drews spot in RF in 09, PLUS he will not cost nearly as much as Holiday or Tex or even Griffey, IMO. Well maybe not Griffey, but they are probably similar in what it would take to get both.

Look at Bays numbers with NOBODY protecting him in the Pitt lineup.

by SoxAcumen on Jun 3, 2008 7:25 PM EDT up 0 recs

I don't like Holliday

The home/road is ugly, as brit said. Can that possibly be right, that his career BABIP at home is .385? And his career road OPS+ is 68? Eesh.

Moreover, trading for Holliday basically guarantee Manny leaving after this season. And I want my Manny.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Jun 3, 2008 8:04 PM EDT up 0 recs

Manny is gone

Eventually. Theo might pick up next years option and the year after, but Manny is gone after that.

I would rather have Holliday on our squad than the Yankees.

by SoxAcumen on Jun 3, 2008 9:31 PM EDT up 0 recs

I'm just not a believer in Holliday.

But this discussion might be moot anyways.

Let us pray.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Jun 3, 2008 9:45 PM EDT up 0 recs

Wordy...

...is never a problem with me, neither is liking Bay or Holliday…

I just think that unloading Drew might be tough, unless he’s given away with an assumption of like 7-9 mil per, depending on the team. Unless Drew goes, Bay and Holliday are very expensive luxuries (as would be Texiera). Can we afford those luxuries dollarwise? Probably. Can we make those trades, talent-wise? Again, probably. I’m just not sure we should (from the talent standpoint, more than the money standpoint – us be a modest-if-not-frugal fourth in the Annual Payroll category, behind three teams which blow…)

Rock me, sexy Jesus...

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jun 3, 2008 8:42 PM EDT up 0 recs

I think...

that Drew is going to be moved regardless and I think the Sox front office realizes he was a mistake.

by SoxAcumen on Jun 3, 2008 9:31 PM EDT up 0 recs

Drew

Is really not a problem to me. He’s overpaid, but he’s a fine enough player. The thing about Holliday is his home/away split, mainly because Coors is a hitters park. Also, yeah, Rollins beating Holliday for MVP last season was the worst award since 1941, when Ted Williams lost to Joe DiMaggio despite having way better numbers.

It wouldn’t take nearly as much to get Dunn or Atkins as it would to get Holliday. And we really don’t need him (Papi will be back, Drew is solid at RF, Taco is great at CF, and Manny is THE MAN). My thing about trading for Teixeira is to get him to be an upgrade over Mikey (if we could sign him to a long term contract). But I’m fine with Mikey, and I also wouldn’t give top prospects for Mark. So, I don’t want to trade for Teixeira, but I would like to see him playing for the Sox in the future.

As for Buch… Give the kid some time. He looked lost in some starts, but made a few good ones. Hope he can get his head straight, because that kid will be our ace in the near future. I would trade even Pedroia before trading him.

It's the same old story. Boy finds girl, boy loses girl, girl finds boy, boy forgets girl, boy remembers girl, girls dies in a tragic blimp accident over the Orange Bowl on New Year's Day.

by MerryGoByeBye on Jun 3, 2008 11:24 PM EDT up 0 recs

Holliday in CF?

No way, Holliday in LF or DH when Papi needs a day off, but Holliday’s fielding in CF will drive any Sox fan crazy, after seeing the speed and plays of Crisp and Ellsbury.

Holliday isn’t going to be a Sox. I can also see the White Sox interested if one of the contracts for one of their sluggers is coming up, but the Sox don’t need a right handed power hitter as long as Manny is healthy, quirky and bitch slapping grumpy first baseman.

by superferret on Jun 8, 2008 12:31 AM EDT up 0 recs

Don't sign Barry

he would make us lose our steroid virginity.

If the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body, then only lefties are in the right mind. Bill "Spaceman" Lee

by BoSox415 on Jun 3, 2008 6:26 PM EDT 0 recs

Gagne...

... and the F.O. knew or strongly suspected it.

I guess he was beefing up his “suck” muscle.

N.B. – not to be confused with his “suck muscle.” I don’t know anything about that. Anything Gagne tells you is a filthy, shameful lie…

Rock me, sexy Jesus...

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jun 3, 2008 6:38 PM EDT up 0 recs

moot argument

I guess they expect Papi to recover in 2-3 weeks. No need to do anything.

by SoxAcumen on Jun 3, 2008 10:11 PM EDT 0 recs

seriously, guys

Enough with the Jason Bay/Matt Holiday fantasies. Why not talk about Albert Pujols while we’re at it?

Can we sit through a player being on the DL for June without panicking like schoolchildren?

The Sox don’t need more bats, or new players. They just need the players they have to play well. Perhaps if Drew and Lowell produce at a higher level, or Youk and Pedroia?

Did I wander into a White Sox blog by accident? When I last checked, the Red Sox are scoring runs at the 2nd best rate in the AL, behind only the Ballpark Rangers. They don’t need more hitting!

Now, as for the bullpen, that’s a different issue entirely…

by RickD on Jun 4, 2008 1:43 AM EDT 0 recs

I think you are looking

at the situation and not looking at the potential or the future.

Eventually, the Red Sox will need to go and get someone either via a trade or free agency. While I do believe Manny will get both of his options picked up, the Sox will need to replace him. And, JD. Drew will be moved. He is paid too much and does too little, just like Julio Lugo.

So, are we panicking like school girls? No, this is a debate, either you make a move NOW when the Rockies and Pirates are looking to deal or you wait and make a deal in the off season (s), which i guarantee neither will be available.

Teixeira will be gone as well. My point was simply why waste players on band aids when you can get a player who will play for you for 5 + years.

Speculation and panic are two completely different things and if you think Theo is not asking around seeing what Holiday, Bay or even someone we have not thought about, I think you underestimate the importance of Theo’s job.

Look at this situation, which is moot now that Papi will be back, as either a Gagne type deal or a Beckett type deal, both gave up top talent and both had far different results.

As for Chicago, they should be panicking, their offense is horrible and they traded away good players for guys who are not performing so, yes, if I was a White Sox fan I would be worried.

And finally, Jason Bay will be on someone’s team in a couple of weeks, whether its the Indians or Yankees or even the Rays, so speculation on trying to get into his market seems ok to me….=)

by SoxAcumen on Jun 4, 2008 1:50 PM EDT up 0 recs

The bull pen needs someone like Brandon Morrow of the Mariners..

When he is accurate, he can just throw his 95-100mph fastball and stop any rally, he would be great as a middle reliever to get at right handed power hitter, like what he did to Manny and Lowell in Seattle during the recent road trip. Of course, the M’s won’t give him up, much like every team wanted Okajima last year in any trade with the Sox.

by superferret on Jun 8, 2008 12:36 AM EDT up 0 recs